even sex toys typically provide more detailed security information about their products than cars.
Lmao.
‘Modern cars are a privacy nightmare,’ the worst Mozilla’s seen
Submitted 1 year ago by filister@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
Comments
Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
uis@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Probably in some jurisdictions they are medical equipment and regulated as such
orl0pl@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Build you own GPL GNU car
SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
If you get a bunch of them together, you have a herd
Intralexical@lemmy.world 1 year ago
TAPR or CERN OHL, probably— Kit cars do already exist, though are apparently aimed at hobbyists, and usually just partial cosmetic customizations. “Metal box on wheels with motor” ain’t exactly rocket science, although quality could be challenging and that’s especially important when it comes to safety.
That said, surely the production costs of modern vehicles needed to do their basic job— Efficient-ish and safe-ish transportation from point A to point B— Can’t possibly be worth their increasingly inflated costs? There’s probably something to be said about the marketability of a sub-$10,000 basic OHL car that you can choose to scratch build or kit-build or buy fully built.
uis@lemmy.world 1 year ago
And get a lawsuit
PutangInaMo@lemmy.world 1 year ago
cd /code/cars/manufacturers/nissan/altima
make -B
cp -r /* /var/www
Curl 192.168.1.2/cars/built/altima
Downloaded a goddamn car son.
LazaroFilm@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I mean. Most modern cars have GPS and network capabilities. Just that allows them to track your travels and daily behavior.
lettruthout@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Probably would vary depending upon the brand, but I wonder how hard it would be to disable the network. At some point would the vehicle refuse to operate without a network connection?
FMT99@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Maybe not even intentionally. When games first became “online only” it was a big deal, now many games just break if they can’t initialize an internet connection. Even ones that don’t use it.
jscummy@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Imagine getting lost in the middle of nowhere and your car refuses to start because it can’t get internet
T156@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I don’t think so. The risk of a PR disaster because a car refused to start, due to them not having a signal either due to an outage, or being underground, is too great.
Car companies probably don’t want to deal with the headlines of “Man left stranded in parking garage after his car was unable to connect to the internet”, or “Woman marooned on mountainside because the car could not connect with the servers”.
Darorad@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Probably not, I’m sure there’s plenty of situations they wouldn’t have network connections, so we’d have prohably heard about it if it were na issue with existing cars.
bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I’d be interested in the ramifications of just clipping the network module/chip
50MYT@aussie.zone 1 year ago
Some brands it’s easy.
I know my Ford just has a data toggle. Turn it off and it stops sending and receiving data from the cloud.
But stuff stops working when I do that. The traffic, and app stuff all need it I think. Gps has a toggle too but it just seems to turn off the map stuff.
30mag@lemmy.world 1 year ago
At some point would the vehicle refuse to operate without a network connection?
No doubt.
brygphilomena@lemmy.world 1 year ago
the worst mozillas seen.
… Yet
Etterra@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If experience has taught me anything, it’s that things can always get worse.
Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
There’s always someone ready to limbo under that low bar…
TheTimeKnife@lemmy.world 1 year ago
We need extremely punitive legislation to punish these companies for stealing data from their customers.
AeroLemming@lemm.ee 1 year ago
And not monetary damages. Subpoena internal memos and find out who gave the order, then lock them up.
Jarix@lemmy.world 1 year ago
No, just need courts to do their fucking job correctly. Making new laws to fix problems only works when they are enforced properly. If courts and governments did what they are supposed to do then we wouldnt be where we are. But here we are
youCanCallMeDragon@lemmy.world 1 year ago
A boring dystopia
DocBlaze@lemmy.world 1 year ago
This is far from boring. This is outrageous. One of the most vicerally upsetting things I’ve seen all year. I’m more motivated than ever to keep my old reliable on the road for as long as possible. I’ll pay 450 a gallon if it means Nissan has no way to actively track my sex life.
DrMango@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Can anyone tell me how these vehicles are getting my data out of the car and into the hands of Toyota, or whoever, if I don’t use their app and never connect the vehicle to any networks?
I imagine the dealerships could probably pull my info out of the car when I take it in for a checkup, but outside of that I can’t think of how my data is getting offloaded.
Not trying to be a turd, I’m genuinely curious
atrielienz@lemmy.world 1 year ago
OnStar has been a thing since '96. They’ve been putting antennas on cars to locate or other wise track them for a long time. One of the things that bothers me about this article is that they don’t say what year models or anything. While I’m sure that for the most part not all the automakers started this practice the exact same year, I am sure there was a starting point. Before then they couldn’t track you. After they could. That’s kind of disappointing. There are some people who think there early 2000’s cars are safe. I am not so sure.
Ashelyn@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
The cars themselves have connectivity that can be transmitted over cellular networks (same as/similar to whatever OnStar uses). Plus if you ever connect your phone via Bluetooth to listen to music or plug it directly into the car with a cable that can transfer data, standard protocol on a lot of cars is to just download everything off the phone that it can access.
vaultdweller013@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
So… hows the industry for stripping all this crap and then some. Cant imagine there isnt one for atleast repair and replacement.
PutangInaMo@lemmy.world 1 year ago
standard protocol on a lot of cars is to just download everything off the phone that it can access.
First I’m hearing about this capability. How do you figure they’re doing that with a Bluetooth connection?
stalfoss@lemm.ee 1 year ago
They’ve all got cell phone modems in them essentially. They use LTE or whatever it’s called these days.
dodos@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Purely theoretical as I don’t have any sources on how cars are doing this, but they could be communicating over low band networks similar to how Amazon home devices make a mesh network. Your car could send data to another car of the same manufacturer, who then phones home that data.
Auli@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
It’s simple they have modems in them.
Darth_Vader__@lemmy.world 1 year ago
is it necessary for our cars to be connected to internet? I mean if you need maps, jus use the phone with a stand.
brlemworld@lemmy.world 1 year ago
1 phone is tiny 2 phone doesn’t know what your vehicle charge is at and where to charge
autotldr@lemmings.world [bot] 1 year ago
This is the best summary I could come up with:
According to a report published by the Mozilla Foundation on Wednesday, cars are “the official worst category of products for privacy” that it’s ever reviewed.
All 25 of the car brands that were researched for the report — including Ford, Toyota, Volkswagen, BMW, and Tesla — failed to meet the nonprofit organization’s minimum privacy standards and were found to collect more personal data from customers than necessary.
Mozilla says it also couldn’t confirm that any of the automakers could meet the organization’s minimum security standards regarding data encryption and protection against theft.
In fact, it claims dating apps and even sex toys typically provide more detailed security information about their products than cars.
“While we worried that our doorbells and watches that connect to the internet might be spying on us, car brands quietly entered the data business by turning their vehicles into powerful data-gobbling machines,” says Mozilla in the report.
The report was so scathing that the organization said the advice it typically provides to help customers protect their personal data feels like “tiny drops in a massive bucket.” Instead, the Mozilla Foundation has started a petition urging car companies to stop the data collection programs they’re unfairly benefitting from, expressing that “our hope is that increasing awareness will encourage others to hold car companies accountable for their terrible privacy practices.”
The original article contains 584 words, the summary contains 222 words. Saved 62%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
bandario@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
I’m not interested in any vehicle that requires an app or has its own connection to the internet.
atrielienz@lemmy.world 1 year ago
We don’t know how far back this problem will affect the automakers in question, but I can tell you that OnStar services launched in 1996. So don’t be surprised if your car does in fact have an internet connection. Unless I guess you don’t own a car. In that case, congrats.
bandario@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
My car is nowhere near that smart, and I don’t pay any subscription fees so I doubt I’m rolling around Australia with a data connection that I don’t know about.
yokonzo@lemmy.world 1 year ago
“Mozilla Foundation found that all 25 of the car brands it reviewed had glaring privacy concerns, even compared to the makers of sex toys”
Wait so my sex toys are collecting my data now?
yetAnotherUser@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
It depends. Does any of them have a phone app?
Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
Usage stats with a leaderboard?
Infinitenonblondes@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Does the car still send data if you don’t subscribe to the data service? Because my car has lte, and for the life of me I can’t figure out why I would ever need my car to supply data when I already have a phone, that does hotspot and has a faster connection.
Bitrot@lemmy.sdf.org 1 year ago
Mozilla has a separate article about how data is collected.
There is a very good chance it is collecting and sending data even if you aren’t subscribing to the services. The modem is there, GPS is there, sensors are there, and someone will pay for information about you. It’s a no brainer for them.
DrMango@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Well so these articles say how data is collected and where it might be going, but they don’t say much about that intermediate step of how the data is being sent if I’m not connecting my vehicle to a network or to the auto maker’s app unless I missed that.
I’m curious to know how my data would be offloaded if I don’t use the app and the car doesn’t have a data connection. I’m sure the dealership will get a data dump whne they hook up the OBD cable for maintenance, but other than that how does the data leave the vehicle?
Puzzle_Sluts_4Ever@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Almost 100%
The radios are used to push software updates and I think you can turn on emergency onstar/onstar-equivalent for a lot of vehicles. You are mostly paying to use the radio yourself and to cover additional data overheads.
atrielienz@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Depends on the car but I’d hazard that yes it does. If it has a data connection according to some others in this thread and on other posts, they turn it on regardless of whether or not you subscribe for services. So for instance you still can get Sirius XM ads and so on if you have Sirius satellite radio installed as part of your cars package. If they can send you ads chances are they want to know if they’re effective and they want to better target those ads. Easy to do when they monitor which radio stations you have programmed and which ones you listen to most etc.
TacoButtPlug@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Following this cause that was my question too
Rozz@lemmy.sdf.org 1 year ago
Not everyone has an unlimited data plan, and also other devices might be in the car to watch things or play games.
Infinitenonblondes@lemmy.world 1 year ago
But why would pay to get data in the car vs upgrading your current plan and using the hotspot function?
Buffaloaf@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Tesla was the worst-ranked brand in the study, getting flagged in every privacy category — only the second time this happened. Tesla’s AI-powered autopilot was highlighted as “untrustworthy” following its involvement in numerous crashes and fatalities.
Yeah, that does sound untrustworthy.
tmRgwnM9b87eJUPq@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Huh?! If I look at the source of the article at Mozilla, Tesla is actually ranked as almost least creepy.
So I do not understand where this is coming from. Also the picture of the article only showing teslas is highly suggestive
Buffaloaf@lemmy.world 1 year ago
This is the article being referenced. Specifically, the table listing the brands from “bad to worst”:
PixelPlumber@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It looks to be based on user ratings (for the sort), and could change dynamically
Likely a lot of people dog piled on Tesla, then read the others.
The Tesla one’s main issue is “they grab a lot of data and don’t seem competent protecting it” which is less bad than “we will sell your sexual history if we can grab it from the car, and have a lot of sensors too”
TootSweet@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Dammit! Just when I’m in the market for a car, this Mozilla study comes out.
ahimsabjorn@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If presented with a binary choice between minimizing carbon footprint with privacy-evasive EV or sticking with more polluting ICE vehicle and keeping privacy, what would you choose? Which choice is more ethically sound? What is more important between mitigating human-caused climate change or preserving individual human privacy? 🤔
SpeakinTelnet@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
I chose buying and maintaining older vehicle because at this point I’m convinced a big part of the issue is not what type of vehicle people drive but the fact that so many people can’t keep one longer than 4 years.
Friend of mine has bought 5 EV since 2015, that’s not less pollution.
artic@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
We should stop building town and city’s around cars in first place
ahimsabjorn@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Good point. Well maintained ‘02 Honda CR-V here with 186k miles. I bike to work when weather be climate conditions allow which is most days May–November wheee I live. We got a second hand Tesla last year because my wife commutes a lot for work. With the latest news, I may try and hold onto the CR-V for even longer than next 2–3 years.
CrypticFawn@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
If presented with a binary choice between minimizing carbon footprint with privacy-evasive EV or sticking with more polluting ICE vehicle and keeping privacy, what would you choose?
Neither. I don’t even have a drivers license and I’m 34 years old. I walk, bike, or take a bus everywhere.
ahimsabjorn@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If it works for someone’s specific case than this is most certainly the way. 👊🏻
b000urns@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Guess I better keep my old shitbox on the road a while longer 🚗💨
QuadratureSurfer@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Actual Link to Mozilla’s reviews: foundation.mozilla.org/en/…/cars/
For some reason, journalists (or their editor) seem to hate linking to actual sources. But at least the article helps point you in the right direction for keywords to look out for with each manufacturer.
penquin@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Best solution I’ve found for this is to always buy the “base” model of any car you get. Those are always with the “least features”, which means nothing is smart about the car. Good old Bluetooth radio at best. You may not have those bullshit features like the lift gate, or lane assist which aren’t really necessary for me anyway. Gotta go basic. You also pay less.
itsraining@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Since when does Mozilla review cars?
squirrelwithnut@lemmy.world 1 year ago
My wife and I were planning on getting her a new car in a October. I guess the first thing I will do once it’s home is pull whichever fuse is connected to the network antenna.
Catoblepas@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
I wonder if anyone has tried using the CCPA against these companies?
RFBurns@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Off to the wrecking-yard and auto-parts house to get more spares for my '99…
If you’re going to monitor me like an airline pilot, you can pay me like one.
0Xero0@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Google: Amateurs!
Be seriously, why do they need info about my sex life? Do I need to check for my car brand in JAV’s credits now?
space@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
But how does it work? Does the car have a mobile data plan included? Or is doing it through connected smartphone?
Clear_Runway@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I’m never gonna drive a car made after 2004.
NotSteve_@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
Nissan tracking your sexual activity is absolutely the weirdest privacy violation I’ve ever seen or heard of
bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Now I’m just curious what data they’re collecting and how. Like are they seeing if I’m getting down in the back seat or getting road head on the highway, or are they pulling this info off a connected phone?
Darkassassin07@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
… Because I log every sexual encounter in my calendar ofc.
18_24_61_b_17_17_4@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Possibly the Bluetooth/WiFi connection with your phone? That’s all I can think of.
postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Chief, next year we need less sports cars more minivans
uis@lemmy.world 1 year ago
They also want you genetic material. I wonder why.
oatscoop@midwest.social 1 year ago
Their lawyers made them put that in as an “avoid a lawsuit” catch-all after other companies have been sued for violating biometric privacy laws.
Intralexical@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It’s for their upcoming line of Combine harvesters.
14th_cylon@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Excuse me, sir, but… what?
uis@lemmy.world 1 year ago
youtu.be/OYcmF9IAJbU
Buffaloaf@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Also Kia. What are the odds that two car companies would think of something like this?
postmateDumbass@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The suspension team is led by a perfectionist.
Lojcs@lemm.ee 1 year ago
That’s super weird