So, is the USA screwed?

Submitted ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨tigerjerusalem@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨nostupidquestions@lemmy.world⁩

You know, DOGE, fascist president and corporations dictating what people can do, institutions being ruined, laws being ignored. Is there any way out of that or is it over? Is the USA done?

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Gammelfisch@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Yes and and beyond screwed.

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some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
We’re on the way down. The Right in this country (well, really, everywhere, but it’s more maniacal here) are growing more unhinged. The Dems keep pulling to the right as a result (since at least the 80s). The overtone window keeps shifting. We’re absolutely fucked.

William F Buckley was a major source of inspiration for the Right for decades. I recently watched his debate with James Baldwin at Cambridge in 1965. He argued racist points about Black single moms, but he tried to sound compassionate and denounced racism. He hid his racism in plain sight but sounded educated. There’s nothing like that now. “They’re eating the dogs.”

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- LaLuzDelSol@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Kamala Harris and Biden before her ran on the most liberal platform in history
  
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  - Skyrmir@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Bernie was more liberal, FDR ran and won 3 times on a more liberal platform.
    
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  - PanArab@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Genocide is a liberal position? Now you tell me?
    
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  - conditional_soup@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    X
    
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  - BrainInABox@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Most neoliberal
    
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ristoril_zip@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
I’m really hoping that Churchill’s quote about Americans doing the right thing is evergreen, because this first month (!!!) of Trump has been A LOT.

I feel like we’re really close to having tried every alternative by now, right?..right?

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- SabinStargem@lemmings.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Bullet box has yet to be opened. But I can hear the hinges creaking.
  
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breadsmasher@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Centuries to build

Weeks to destroy.

Good luck.

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- kitnaht@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  To be fair, decades to destroy. This has been slowly culminating since before I was even born.
  
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- UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Slavery is legal in prisons, we built a circus tent.
  
  Clown country
  
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TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
It depends on if Baron is like his father or not.

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- BrainInABox@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Source?
  
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- reiterationstation@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  You’re sure? I’ve had this hunch because, well, obviously, but I don’t know for sure.
  
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EndRedStateSubsidies@leminal.space ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Yes.

I’m the short term not much will change and no one will react. By the time they want to react, they’ll play into a fascist crackdown.

Look into the Business Plot. This is basically the result of a century of planning between business interests and religious fanatics with too much money.

As long as capitalism is propagandized as a good thing, civilization will continue to face this issue of the few exploiting the many.

Do you believe every human deserves the same rights and dignities? It’s not possible to make a cell phone without relying on slave labor in the supply chains.

Profit is unpaid labor. As long as we normalize giving at the profits to those that already have everything, civilisations will continue to implode until one makes a mistake of such hubris everyone dies. Look at PFAS. One day we will unleash something we can’t contain and we’ll be dead before we can detect it or treat it.

Our species simply will not survive because we’re too eager to shit where we sleep just so we don’t have to walk all the way to the bathroom.

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sanpedropeddler@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Honestly we were screwed long before now, but yes. Its going to be a slow decline into fascism until we collectively wise up. I do think there’s a real possibility of that happening, but its going to take a lot of work.

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- expLogian@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  My hopes are far lower than yours. Nazi Germany had just enough popular support to function without democracy and used heavy propanda to increase its support for a whole decade before it lost the war against all of its neighbors and itself. It took long years of foreign occupation to repair German society, and China isn’t looking like a good choice of occupier in the event a fully Nazified US loses. Many German people today remember their grandparents being ardent Nazis imuntil their deaths. I’m worried the same will be the case for me.
  
  We need a big EU militarization, yesterday. Probably navally focused, treating the US like Imperial Japan and the rest of the Americas like its Manchuria. Russia is a more imminent threat but at least it’s a paper tiger in all things except nuclear. Still, armies are needed to defend against it as well.
  
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  - sanpedropeddler@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    I’m just hoping we can sort things out before it gets as bad as Nazi Germany was. Maybe I’m being overly optimistic, but having a defeatist attitude certainly won’t help our chances.
    
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Treczoks@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
As you failed to prevent fascism at the voting booth, you will have to learn how to stop it now. This is the situation the second amendment had been written for. After being abused to allow criminals and mentally retarded to get access to weapons they should never have, you can now put them to good use.

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takeiteasypolicy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
I wont give a knee jerk response to it. a country the size, economy, and history of USA doesn’t get done for by one President. While Muskrump will cause plenty of institutional damage and suffering on American and global populace, USA will come out stronger and better nation at the end of this (whenever this ends). Case in point, Germany before WWII and Germany after WWII

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- splendoruranium@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  I know you’re trying to sound optimistix, but that particular example required significant (worldwide, in fact) external intervention…
  
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- GalacticGrapefruit@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  I think we’re headed for balkanization. We’re seeing the breakup of the USSR all over again.
  
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  - DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    On one of the good timelines.
    
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- SupahRevs@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  We need to weather the storm and come back strong. We need a FDR 2.0 to transition from chaos and oligarchy into a more equitable America with universal healthcare and more support for struggling Americans.
  
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  - takeiteasypolicy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    agree. USA will need a project 2030 plan to restore and strengthen Democracy in way that it can’be be ever again compromised by one mad man
    
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- stm@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  
  USA will come out stronger and better nation at the end of this
  
  damn
  
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- Jumpingspiderman@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  One can argue that Felon 47 is a different president. Two bad presidents as evil as Trump and Musk will sink the US.
  
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Aoife@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Nah it’s gonna get looted and pillaged and generally go to shit but will be saved by the aheer economic power of being one of the few places left on earth with enough farmland to feed billions when the other breadbaskets start getting decimated by ecological collapse

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- uienia@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  It is interesting that you assume that breadbasket will not also be decimated by climate change.
  
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- SwingingTheLamp@midwest.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Enough farmland? I suggest reading up on the Ogallala Aquifer. Also, where the best climate zones for agriculture will be 50 years from now.
  
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sumguyonline@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
So long as there is people living in a place, having kids, and trying to improve their lives, the places will remain. The government may change, social structure’s get overhauled, but the same fact that people are having kids and building a life means those places are unlikely to go away. The old republic is dead. We have supreme court justices taking bribes then passing judgments saying they can. We have the position of President where anyone in it can legally say “I was doing it for my country the laws don’t apply.” And get away with it. The United States of America as a Democratic Republic, is over. But there still exists a United States of America that has transitioned to a Democratic Empire/kingdom. So to the question; “Is the USA screwed?” The simple answer is No. It will continue on so lobg as the population does. Is the Democratic Republic of the United States screwed? Bitch be dead, screw the corpse if you like.

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Adderbox76@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
More and more every day…

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blasphemous@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Although there’s a lot of knee-jerk reaction in some circles, Trump issuing EOs that are illegal and unenforceable only go as far as all the other vitriol that slides it’s way out of his mouth creases. Plenty of things he does are blocked by judges, including his demand that only him and his AG are allowed to interpret the law. It just doesn’t work like that. Although the possibility of things being escalated and allowed through a compromised supreme Court still exists, it hasn’t happened yet. I’m not giving into the mania while checks and balances still actually do exist.

Corporations dictating what people can do has been happening basically my whole life.

DOGE is another story. It’s very bad, yeah, but I’m not sure how it affects me personally in my day-to-day.

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- GalacticGrapefruit@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Do you like cancer research? How about fighting forest fires? Averting mid-air plane collisions?
  
  DOGE sure hates all of those.
  
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  - blasphemous@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    I believe most of those will get reinstated by Congress or judicial branch.
    
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- StructuredPair@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  All government services will start going to shit. You will not notice immediate effects of this, but roads will be worse, food and drugs will become unsafe as the already inadequate monitoring becomes no monitoring, etc. It just won’t all happen overnight and everything will slowly get more dangerous and shinier as all government oversight is destroyed.
  
  Even more indirectly, data products that companies use for deciding investments will become increasingly unreliable. This will increase uncertainty and risk in any corporate investment and lead to decreased corporate spending and an eventual economic contraction.
  
  More immediately, a large number of the people fired this week and last week work in rural areas and the sudden loss of so many jobs in those areas will lead to significant local recessions as the federal money being added to the economy through paychecks disappears overnight.
  
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  - blasphemous@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    This is a pretty good answer. I hope that the judicial branch (not just the top) will reverse many of these decisions, as DOGE really does not have the authority to remove things that Congress voted on…and hopefully Congress will reinstate some of the very important things when they inevitably have to do budget again.
    
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- Katana314@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  It’s erroneous to claim the judge orders blocking the executive orders have done anything.
  
  As judge of Lemmy, I order you to stop posting. /s
  
  ^ There, that statement alone had just as much effect as the judicial orders. Fact is, DOGE still has extensive access to most of the systems that they breached, and judges have largely been ignored, or have given rulings complicit with Trump’s actions.
  
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  - blasphemous@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    AFAIK that hasn’t actually happened yet. Any search results I got were “what will happen if Trump ignores the court/what can judges do if orders are defied?” So, as a person who had to distance myself from sensationalized news for my mental health, I shouldn’t worry about things that haven’t happened. Especially things so far outside of my control.
    
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JDPoZ@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
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- VerifiedSource@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  
  somehow he pisses off the base enough
  
  Trump has to placate the billionaire class. If everybody is still making money and gaining power, they’re unlikely to break with him.
  
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  - JDPoZ@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
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lordnikon@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Yes but we should still make them pay for every inch they take.

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HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
“screwed” seems a little mild to describe it

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SabinStargem@lemmings.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
I would say so. The only question is whether the good guys win a civil war. My money is on ‘yes’, since Yarvin’s Cabal is hellbent on exiling all of the competent people from their society, along with being jackasses who have alienated many peoples. It will be a bloody struggle, but I think that Dogey America will ultimately receive the Old Yeller treatment. I only hope that every member of Yarvin’s Cabal are executed - Elon, Thiel, ect.

Let’s not make the mistakes of the 1st Civil War, 1st Business Plot, and 2nd World War, where many high ranking members were permitted to escape justice. These worms will insist on burrowing into the apple, and ultimately destroy the very thing that allowed them to live in prosperity.

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- uienia@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Who will fight that civil war? The American population is overfed and entertained and way too docile for such things.
  
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sunbytes@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Screwed is always relative.

I’m hearing chat that immigrants from places like Turkey or India are going “oh yeah this is what it’s like back home”.

So it’s possible it just goes full neoliberal (i.e. no consequences or regulations for the rich) and the division of wealth grows even further.

Provided he doesn’t cause a war or some kind of other mass-death problem (chemical spills, reactor meltdown etc) it might just have a cost primarily in human suffering, as opposed to human life.

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NoxAstrum@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Not yet, not necessarily. The further this goes, the closer they come to the point of no return.

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- DragonTypeWyvern@midwest.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  No, it is.
  
  Unless the great unwashed Didn’t Votes wake the fuck up and absolutely destroy MAGA in 2026 America is trapped with fascists actively purging the government of anyone not a loyalist.
  
  The voting blocs are completely partisan, and they fucking should be because MAGA is a fascist party.
  
  When a political party comprised of about half of the voters in a state explicitly reject honesty, human rights, and democracy and gains control the state there is not a way out without a civil war.
  
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  - aquinteros@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    that is considering there are more elections
    
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- Azal@pawb.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Oh we’re past the point of no return. The question we’re at now is how much damage can we mitigate from here forward.
  
  The US has killed any of it’s power it’s had in the world beyond military and economic. The power it had through friendships and trade deals, they’re fucking gone. Trade deals have been shown to be temporary and based on whims so why would anyone do it. And friendships? HAHAHAHAH.
  
  So now it’s economic… and oh look, we’re about to start tearing that apart and probably look at a depression that will be compared to the OG Great Depression, while the trade deals are going across the world and China is definitely willing to step up to the plate to be the “adult in the room” in trade deals.
  
  So last it’s military power. And with getting rid of officers to only have loyal ones… that means strategy and tactics will be going out the window for “We have a big hammer.”
  
  That’s the US’s interaction with the world, which most of our lives we’ve been in the dominant position. So that’ll get rough. Now on to the things internally that DOGE has gone through and cleared out, it’ll take years to unfuck the stuff already done.
  
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- VerifiedSource@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  A point of no return won’t be hit for a while. The buildings still exist and people with domain knowledge are still around.
  
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CurlyWurlies4All@slrpnk.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Going from decline to fall. To be fair it took Rome 200 years or so I’m sure the US will limp on for a while yet. But it won’t ever be what it was again.

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HighFructoseLowStand@lemm.ee ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Unless there’s a coup when the Supreme Court finds against Trump and he ignores them and Republicans keep Congress from holding him accountable the only way the Court will let them.

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Kit@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
It might take a long time to fix, but someday we will recover.

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- T00l_shed@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I think the US is over. There will be something else for sure, but i don’t know if the US is salvageable
  
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  - treadful@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    I think you need some perspective. The situation is bad and seems like foreshadowing of worse things to come. However, we’re a pretty far distance from states pulling away or civil war breaking out.
    
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  - BaroqueInMind@lemmy.one ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    If these things Trump is removing with presidential orders was so important, why the fuck didn’t Congress make them laws while Democrats had a majority in the past twenty fucking years?
    
    This shit is infuriating to me that we only blame one side for these issues.
    
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sunflowercowboy@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
It’s to the point i believe myself the second coming. Rapture always perplexed me.

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TropicalDingdong@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
100% cooked bruh. Get the fuck out while you can if you here.

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- tigerjerusalem@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I’m not in the USA, but I have friends that lives there and in Canada. I’m worried for them.
  
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WrenFeathers@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Short answer? Yes. Long answer? Absolutely.

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TheCriticalMember@aussie.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
I believe the US is a failed state. trump just decided that himself and his AG are the only people who can decide which laws apply to the executive, and ordered the termination of all remaining Biden era US Attorneys. I know we’ve been saying this a lot lately, but it feels like a mask off moment.

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BeatTakeshi@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Screwed, and unfortunately screwing around too

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RabbitBBQ@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Yes and there was nothing really worth saving. Throw it all away and start over. It’s fine.

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humanspiral@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
There are some seeds of hopefulness this week.

20% of savings will be put towards a “freedom dividend”. With cuts to military.

Freedom dividends is answer to everything. Disempowers government discretion, empowers people. Sales taxes and carbon taxes directly funding dividends becomes progressive taxes. Transferring “conditional poverty welfare” to dividends is path to eliminating homelessness, and not having a 50% clawback on work income that is a huge work disincentive.

Progressive versions of UBI/freedom dividends is just a higher amount with higher taxes. But a conservative version that still tries to maintain (as close as legally allowed systemic) slavery, is still a path to a long term sustainable fix for country.

End to proxy war on Russia.

Facts genuinely support that US/NATO controlled/manipulated Ukraine into provoking war on Russia. By far the most demonic war the US has ever started, with specific objective of diminishing Russia to the last Ukrainian. That Blackrock can get cheap land and resources in the end does not help Americans. Nothing about this war helps world. Climate sustainability cannot be a 2nd priority to war, and oil industry profits, and forcing massive diesel use and refinery terrorism to operate the war. Pure demonic hatred/mission to destroy/destabilize Russia is not going to get it to cooperate on energy transition. Before Biden, they were cooperating with Europe to mutual benefit.

Massive war spending increases from NATO to match forced Russian/China production increases is not path to human sustainability, or even a path to likely victory over Russia/China. Getting the DNC to force us into candidacy of the most republican/neocon/zionist candidate possible makes all progressive policies impossible due to lower priority. Both a small UBI, and war de-escalation, means having a progressive alternative have a chance, instead of appealing to the Dick/Liz Cheney wing of the democratic party.

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- gadfly1999@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  
  Facts genuinely support that US/NATO controlled/manipulated Ukraine into provoking war on Russia.
  
  You misspelled “delusions”
  
  I’m going to ignore the rest of the garbage that you wrote as it’s obviously of similar quality.
  
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- GalacticGrapefruit@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Ooh, a Russian troll! Quick, whack him with the hammer, they’re worth extra bonus points!
  
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  - humanspiral@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    no one ever counters how wonderful you life is for having a war on Russia. Post was about saving the world.
    
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- Katana314@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Everyone here was alive when the invasion started. Russia invaded Ukraine. THEN Ukraine considered entering NATO. They were happy to stay out of it as long as Russia stayed away. They didn’t. Some saw it coming, as Russia has violated just about every treaty they’ve entered.
  
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  - humanspiral@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    
    Everyone here was alive when the invasion started. Russia invaded Ukraine.
    
    No, you just woke up then. Israel “loved Palestinians” before history started on October 7th. When history started on 9/11, it was proof that “they just hate us for our freedom”.
    
    Russia’s red lines for not being forced into the Ukraine war were consistent prior to war, as they are now. It is west/Ukraine who lied their way through Minsk process.
    
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- ConHoliousDonFrankle@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  It’s so sad watching idiots repeat what they’ve been told to. Please attempt to remove Putin’s lips from your ass so I don’t have to see him puppet your body with his tongue.
  
  Our country is fucked but we don’t need idiots who weren’t functional enough to go to Ukraine shoveling shit and lies at us.
  
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- Jumpingspiderman@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Bullshit. Begone Trumpist troll
  
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Dozzi92@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
My brother sent this to me the other day and I gave it a watch. It feels pretty unbiased (although I’m uneducated), and seems to have a more macro, zoomed-out view of America and just nations on the whole. I thought it was pretty interesting and it helped to put some things in perspective.

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- CallMeButtLove@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Very interesting, but I don’t feel better after watching that… :(
  
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  - Dozzi92@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Ha, I should’ve mentioned that you definitely won’t. It seems to paint this damned if we do damned if we don’t picture. But it at least paints a picture, versus what can at times feel like this great big unknown. It may also shed some light on some of the motivations for what’s happening. I dunno.
    
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