That’s a dick move
Linus Torvalds affirms expulsion of Russian maintainers
Submitted 1 year ago by moe90@feddit.nl to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.theregister.com/2024/10/23/linus_torvalds_affirms_expulsion_of/
Comments
humble_pete_digger@lemm.ee 1 year ago
nobleshift@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Now do this with Israelis.
TheFrirish@jlai.lu 1 year ago
The whole grad is seething I’m loving it
Crimea river.
yournamehere@lemm.ee 1 year ago
russian economy after over 1k days of war is evaporized and putin now is Xis little dog. so if we all work together now nobody will remember a country called russia in 100 years. nations are just a phantasy and it wont hurt to let go of some.
NeilBru@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The Russian economy after over 1k days of war
is evaporizedhas evaporated and now putin is Xi’s little dog. so if we all work together, nobody will remember a country called russia in 100 years. nations are just aphantasyfantasy, and it won’t hurt to let go of some.I think it’s scary that the Russian Federation will “Balkanize” given how many nuclear weapons it has. Then again, they probably don’t work very well given what we’ve seen about the so-called “2nd/3rd most powerful army on Earth”. But even a few in the hands of an even more unhinged maniac than Putin is unsettling, to say the least.
iii@mander.xyz 1 year ago
I wonder what the secret baltic/polish/sauce is that they improved so fast after the fall of the wall?
Why are moldova/ukraine/belarus struggling.
As you mention, the balkans haven’t experienced the same rate of improvement after the fall of the ottomans.
yournamehere@lemm.ee 1 year ago
well the fall of the udssr was a joy so i expect part 2 to be great aswell. from what i understand the russians also want to buy mcdonalds, iphone and porsche and not live gulag life. when hitler was dead all of a sudden my fellow germans werent into nazi shit much. once putin gets to eat bullets chances are good russians lose interest in killing their neighbours. stupid russians.
rottingleaf@lemmy.world 1 year ago
We’ve seen missiles taking off and getting intact to all parts of Ukraine, then exploding.
Their precision was far worse than advertised by Russian state propaganda, but that’s irrelevant.
A nuclear weapon doesn’t have to be more precise than needed to hit an average county, in US terms.
Also the Russian economy has done nothing of the sort. Its good, nice things dependent on Western companies have died, say, cars production.
But even in their advertised form sanctions work on the span of decades, not years or months.
The performance of the Russian military was what you say in 2022, but now it is good enough for Russia to be making advances in Ukraine now. Ukraine is bleeding.
This is easily solvable by Western troops being sent to the grinder (one can do that unofficially - everyone does) on a bigger scale. For whatever reason this doesn’t happen.
About performance of the Russian military … I’m not sure you realize how much experience matters. Humans are soft, unreliable creatures. A learning structure created by most experienced, intelligent, honest humans will decay over time if it’s not checked against reality, that being war. And war against a military close to its equal, not against someone much weaker.
Russian military in 2022 was very different from what it is now. So was Ukrainian military, but like I said, Ukraine is bleeding.
My point is that both militaries in experience (not talking about anything else) will be among the best in the world when this war ends.
KingThrillgore@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
Some of you in the comments aren’t just licking the boot, but full on deepthroating it.
Cethin@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
Who’s boot? Linus’s or Putin’s? I’m assuming you’re on Russia’s side by your instance. It’s weird how constituent you people are. Literally anything, you’re defending Russia. If the US was invading a sovereign nation to take it under its influence, I’m sure you’d be against that. As would I, because I’m morally consistent. You somehow justify Russia’s actions yet are against the west expanding and exerting their influence. Care to enlighten me to the difference?
And before you answer: no, Ukraine is not part of Russia and did not start the invasion. Even under the USSR it wasn’t part of Russia. It was a member state of a union of states, as the name implies. Russia does not have any right to it.
Honytawk@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
He didn’t expel all Russians, just the ones working for sanctioned Russian companies.
endofline@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
Some people would disagree with you lwn.net/Articles/995294/
TheTechnician27@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Your own link 1) does not attest to that and 2) has a comment replying to it directly contradicting what it’s saying in the first place.
polar@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Good! So why the incendiary comments Linus made on Russians. It is so hard to say something like this: "I have to expel them from the project due to a US law forced us to do it. However, I had trust on them all these years and they contributed a lot to the project (that is why they were working here). Now, I am against the law because we should not discriminate people for the origin. Moreover, the claim that they can harm the software is unwarranted because it is OPEN and many eyes are on it. Finally, this harms the entire Linux project because now makes it an “American"project rather than an global one. Sad times.”
michaelmrose@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Have you noticed exactly how many Russians are bigots who support the mass murder of their neighbors?
jas0n@lemmy.world 1 year ago
xz attack was an open source attack and it would be silly to assume that it was unique.
polar@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I am also against Russian aggression on Ukraine! But would no ban any Russian because of that. The same I am completely against US occupying Iraq and 1/3 of Syria, yet never would occur to me not to hire an American because what their country does. I really don’t understand why is so hard to understand for Lemmy community the double standard.
aidan@lemmy.world 1 year ago
That would’ve been great for them to clarify earlier XD
buddascrayon@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Well, this is The Register. Not exactly a paragon of stellar reporting here.
BD89@lemmy.sdf.org 1 year ago
RIGHT?? I was so disappointed until I learned that bit of context. Even the original article I read about it didn’t mention it
potustheplant@feddit.nl 1 year ago
That would’ve generated fewer clicks. Sensationalism is always more profitable.
merari42@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Important context and a good decision
PanArab@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Looks like it is about time for a hard fork maintained outside NATO countries.
daggermoon@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Go and do it then.
SuperIce@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Just because Russians can’t approve commits anymore?
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 1 year ago
you mean like the Ubuntu fork North Korea uses?
I hear they’re friends with Russia now, maybe they’ll share.
lol @ “hard fork”
polar@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Don’t know how feasible is a fork of the kernel, but if given a choice, I would choose the distro with the kernel that does not ban people from any nationality every time.
InverseParallax@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Or, alternately, and I’m just spitballing randomly here… Russians could gtfo of Ukraine and go home?
aidan@lemmy.world 1 year ago
How many of these Russian maintainers were in Ukraine?
polar@lemmy.world 1 year ago
The US occupying 1/3 of Syria and Iraq for far longer is ok though.
PanArab@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Only if this standard is applied universally. I agree.
Mwa@lemm.ee 1 year ago
altlinux devs:
oh come on we are not trollsumami_wasbi@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
SELinux from NSA is evil. Got it.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
What are you even trying to say or suggest here?
umami_wasbi@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
It is appling the the same rule
Ruissan -> FSB -> Linux -> Bad American -> NSA -> SELinux -> Bad
Should this logic work? Hell no.
franklin@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I don’t think that’s what they were saying, but I don’t think you’re making that point in good faith either.
Kronusdark@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I think given the current political situation this is the right call. No one knows what the Russian government might compel otherwise innocent devs to do.
That said, we (and I mean society, not any particular individual) should be mindful that we don’t slip into bigotry.
index@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
The current ceo of usa is supporting a genocide in gaza and the former ceo is a fascist. Does the same logic apply here?
lefaucet@slrpnk.net 1 year ago
I think pressure should be put on the US to divest from genocide. Sanctions from our allies would be helpful… Surely with the international court declaring Israel’s actions a war crime they could that should be to hard to make a case for it.
Our election system has fucked over anti-zionists and needs reforming, which is happening, but not by this November.
Ranked choice voting is gaining popularity, electoral college is under pressure and people are fed up with voter suppression and gerrymandering and things are moving in a positive direction on the local and state levels.
IcePee@lemmy.beru.co 1 year ago
Not gonna lie, this is kinda a refutation of the whole open source model. I was led to believe that it shouldn’t matter who writes the code, as long the code is able to be interrogated/corrected.
rottingleaf@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Removing people from CREDITS looks like someone should have been mindful before acting.
8uurg@lemmy.world 1 year ago
They were removed from MAINTAINERS, which is what identifies the people responsible for maintaining a piece of code, a subsystem of Linux, not the credits, which is encoded in the git commit history.
polar@lemmy.world 1 year ago
What current situation?
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Is so hard to believe Open Source should be open? If there were a malicious intent, others would have been able to detect it in no time… because it is ‘open’! If the open system works, it should not matter there are CIA or FSB, commies or libertarians “infiltrated” making the code.
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If those Russians had been in that position is because their contributions have been stellar, otherwise they would never have gotten there. Their contribution and effort has been robbed from them just because they mothers give them birth in the wrong coordinates.
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Linus is a god for many of us… with human traits though… His Finland, although historically robbed by Russia, achieved its highest splendor during the decades of neutrality, not by fiercely antagonizing one or the other power… same as Switzerland, Ireland, Austria and Singapore.
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All this started with a US law so he has to comply with. However, instead of those unhelpful comments, he should say that in open software it is unwarranted… not to mention countries can get sanctions for their actions, but not civilians that cannot choose where they are born.
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If we are to believe that Moscow is trying to put something into the kernel “undetected”… gosh, what an organization based on the US with a so pro-establishment leader may be doing so? For real, now I am starting having my doubts on the kernel!
GreenKnight23@lemmy.world 1 year ago
you lost me at this
If there were a malicious intent, others would have been able to detect it in no time… because it is ‘open’!
not sure if troll or just really ignorant.
polar@lemmy.world 1 year ago
My very fist post on lemmy and already see the upvote downvote game… When someone votes should be demanded a public reason, no?
Alphane_Moon@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Linus is a god for many of us… with human traits though… His Finland, although historically robbed by Russia, achieved its highest splendor during the decades of neutrality, not by fiercely antagonizing one or the other power… same as Switzerland, Ireland, Austria and Singapore.
Ukraine was neutral before 2014, that didn’t help avoid an invasion. Not to mention they occupied Moldova and Georgia before that too.
They have not been able to attack the Baltic nations or Poland because they joined NATO.
Neutrality word salad is only for the ignorant or those who support russian imperialism.
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____@infosec.pub 1 year ago
I’ve worked side by side with RU devs who were both personable and damned competent. Never were their tech skills in doubt, and I retain quite a bit of respect for those individuals.
I’d not do the same today explicitly because of the political and compliance implications. It’s unfortunate, but necessary.
index@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Necessary for what?
reksas@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
i wish there was more we could do to help russians topple their dictatorship
polar@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Again, with open software that is not necessary… If we get to believe that argument, those potential “FSB” coders would be the ones who would notice if the CIA was trying to place a back door in the kernel too. Open Software is OPEN!!
jagged_circle@feddit.nl 1 year ago
With that logic, the US contributes should be expelled too. We have more examples of US folks being served NSLs than Russians.
Ninjasftw@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Lol because russian is so open about who they give nsl to. Or they just poison/defenestrate them
polar@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Looking at the downvotes, signals some true on you comment!
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Its an American-based company, owned and operated by American businessmen. They’re not going to burn their own guys, even if some of them are spooks (no evidence that anyone on the core dev team is a spook, but crazy to think the FSB would have people in and the Five-Eyes guys wouldn’t).
But I do wonder how long until we start seeing mainstream code-forks that span geopolitical regions. Will we have a Digital Iron Curtain, with BRICS countries doing their own FOSS branches independently of NATO block?
mindaika@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
Isn’t most of Linux open source?
jagged_circle@feddit.nl 1 year ago
All of it is. But its still possible to sneak backdoors into Foss software. See xz.
geography082@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Linux Fundarion is based in America. It needs to follow its rules and politics. I guess a lot of things will happen after this. As something so important for open technology like It , should be based in a more open, mor asvanced in laws and neutral territory.
EarthShipTechIntern@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Linus is from Finland. Not hard to remember reasons for aversion to Russian propaganda for anyone raised near it.
Blanketing the Linux Foundation as American based kind of sounds like you’re a Russian troll.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 1 year ago
This is hardly the first time the core Linux code stack has been forked and independently developed. Seems like this is going to invite a Russia-specific development environment that just pulls in updates from the main branch and adds in Russia-internal development (which will likely then be copied by non-Russians and backloaded into the core Linux stack under someone else’s name, because why waste good dev work?)
But the argument appears to be anyone with a Russian-sounding name is getting removed from the core development team, until they can prove to the American team that they aren’t… spooks, I guess? Also
The driver code to which the dropped maintainers contributed remains in place.
So this isn’t such a high security risk that the code is being pulled (presumably because its been vetted and appears beyond repute). This is purely a CYA move to eliminate veterans on the team because they were forthright about their identities.
should be based in a more open, mor asvanced in laws and neutral territory.
Its not clear how a policy of booting people based on their surnames accomplishes this.
anticurrent@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
So the Rest of the world should trust CIA, NSA contributions but not Russia’s FSB ? come on , opensource should be tolerant towards all espionage agencies no matter their skin color.
TheGrandNagus@lemmy.world 1 year ago
no matter their skin colour
Russia is very, very white. Overwhelmingly so.
This has nothing to do with skin colour.
jerkface@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
Replying because I need to think about how I’m going to vote for this comment and plan to come back later.
phoenixz@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
This is the difference between political systems where one is really really bad but at least doesn’t regularly assassinate opponents in the most horrific ways, and allow people to speak their minds.
I don’t trust the US any further than I can throw it, but no matter how you look at it, it’s the lesser evil.
Hell, look at sports. If a Russian athlete wins you can pretty much disqualify them for doping without having tested them because they all do it and I feel sorry for them, I feel sorry for that situation. There is a reason (beyond this war) why Russian athletes weren’t allowed to compete at certain events, and it’s the insane amount of doping used by them. I’m sure these athletes don’t want to do this crap, but a state basically forces them to.
I can see the worry about similar issues with developers.
Reptorian@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
No, they don’t.
Adanisi@lemmy.zip 1 year ago
Russians are white but ok
anticurrent@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
don’t be pedantic, what about the Chinese, south-Africans, north-Koreans, Cubans, …etc
hitwright@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I’m surprised how many people treat GPL to ignore borders. The IP law still operates only by the rules your country decides.
I can understand the desire for information to be free, but unless Open source movement becomes it’s own country the discussion should end there.
aidan@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I can understand the desire for information to be free, but unless Open source movement becomes it’s own country the discussion should end there.
Ideally the internet would be extra-sovereign
SRo@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
Good
vga@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
Oookay, time to ban instance lemmy.ml.
ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
You have to be arguing in bad faith if you’re trying to say “citizens of nation shouldn’t be responsible for their nation”
The open source benefit is not that they can directly impact it, it’s that their government can’t
trespasser69@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Linus in 2012: Nvidia fuck you
Linus in 2024: Russia fuck you
Dayroom7485@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Yo this comment section is a dumpster fire 🔥
TheBlue22@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 year ago
I wouldn’t want to have FSB agents maintaining my open source either.
MilitantAtheist@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Linus is from Finland. Finns barely tolerate Russians under usual circumstances. These are not usual circumstances.
foremanguy92_@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
Don’t know the whole story but :
If you banned them because they are promoting the Russia, it’s okay. But it’s not if you banned them ONLY because they’re Russians. But maybe you could like said to them to do like in the sports, and operate as a “no-country” people, but surely not ban them for their nationality
r00ty@kbin.life 1 year ago
You know. I don't like what the Russian leadership and military are doing. I feel like ultimately we're in the cold war era. But you know, at the height of the cold war, radio operators around the world still worked Russian stations.
Yes, there was a very clear policy, neither side talked about ANYTHING beyond their signal report and working conditions (information about radio, power output and aerial basically). At the height of the actual cold war, the individuals were not cancelled like this.
Sanction the leadership, sanction the money, and sanction the military. But the normal people that are subject to the propaganda? I don't understand the benefit in doing this. I also don't see how the sanctions effect an open source project..
Seems a bit weird. Maybe there's information we're not privy to, but on the face of it, just based on what we're seeing. Seems like a very very odd move.
CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml 1 year ago
Absolutely idiotic take that endangers not only Linux but fractures the concept of open source itself.
lemmeBe@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Just goes to show that even a legend can act like an idiot.
FangedWyvern42@lemmy.world 1 year ago
How is this keeping to open source philosophies in any way?
“No, you can’t work on this, you’re Russian.”
I don’t support the Russian Government or its actions in any way, but these devs are probably not part of it.
Allero@lemmy.today 1 year ago
The central project of open-source community closes doors to people based on nationality, and everyone is cheering…
Why? You seriously miss the implications of breaking the very basic principles of open source? You are ready to forgive literally anything if it is claimed to target Russia or Russians in any way?
For those of you who say about backdoors:
- US is known to create the most complicated spy networks with myriads of backdoors. Where are the bans of the US maintainers?
- Israel is a literal powerhouse of state-sanctioned spying software - Pegasus, as well as many less renowned programs, was created here. Any bans, anyone?
- China is known for invasive software. Maybe ban them all too?
The only reasonable way to avoid backdoors is to meticulously check the submitted code. Threat actors can be anywhere - and Russia is not some unique threat location, nor was it banned with that justification - just “compliance requirements”.
This is not just politics. This is a giant threat to the community, and the way Linus framed it in his message is even more terrifying. This was never meant to happen.
workerONE@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I thought it said expulsion of Russian Mountaineers so that was pretty confusing
LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
It’s really awesome to expel by nationality, even of people who’ve long moved out and immigrated. /s
Honestly fuck Russia but this goes a bit too far into the grey area between reasonable and racist, and on the latter side I’m not sure who is supposed to be helped here.
index@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
I really hope this thread is filled with bots because otherwise you have really hit the bottom. The thread is filled with racism and bigotry, and it’s allowed only because it’s against russians…
Gammelfisch@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Join your Russian comrades on the front and bring every single MAGAT with you. The NATO and Ukrainian tungsten will greet you.
index@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
you sound like a racist, perhaps you should join them
pooperNickel@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Maybe you can provide an example?
index@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Imagine a thread filled with people insulting brazilians
lazyViking@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Explain