Phonebooks

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨WoahWoah@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨nostupidquestions@lemmy.world⁩

I was talking to a coworker about these new phishing attacks that send your name and address and sometimes a picture of your house, and I was saying how creepy it is, and they told me that phonebooks used to have like literally everyone in a city listed by last name with their phone number and address. Is that for real?

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MegaUltraChicken@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
Mid 30s and I feel ancient right now.

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- wallybeavis@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  Mid 40s, and I too feel old now - at first I thought OP was setting us up for a joke. The local phone company still delivered phone books to everyone in my city until a few years ago.
  
  I think it was an old legal requirement for any phone company providing landline services to also provide phonebooks. Unfortunately most weren’t even recycled, they were either burned in backyard firepits, or just thrown out
  
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  - radix@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    You want to feel really old?
    
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OADXNGnJok
    
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  - WoahWoah@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    No joke! I don’t know if I’ve ever actually seen a phone book. How would they even fit? Seems like they would have been enormous.
    
    I did see a payphone in a restaurant once but it didn’t work. I saw another one outside of a gas station on a road trip in the south. That one had a dial tone, but I think you had to pay more to call anyone we knew, so we just took selfies pretending to use it.
    
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  - altima_neo@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    Yeah we were still getting them up to line 2010 or so, even though we haven’t had a land line active in my house since I moved in.
    
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- Fosheze@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  Not even 30 and I feel ancient right now.
  
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  - Anyolduser@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    Yeah, OP might just be a dumbass.
    
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Noel_Skum@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
Generally, yeah. Your initials and family name - of the account payer only. First line of your address. I think the Terminator film, amongst others, shows this being used to locate someone.

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- Cobrachicken@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  In a public phone booth, accessible to everyone. Later then, you had the chance to opt out of the phone book “service”, here in Geemany that was around the time alternative phone providers appeared. Now seems to be default, so you got to watch to whom you give your number.
  
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  - PapaStevesy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    Geemany, is that where the cricket got his name?
    
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- geekwithsoul@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  Actually in most places it was however the person wished to be listed and often included full first names and sometimes middle initials. Or could sometimes be a couple like “John and Mary Doe”
  
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Rhynoplaz@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
You could opt out of being listed, but anyone who did that was considered a weirdo hermit. Why would you not want someone to be able to call you?

Oh God, it feels so weird saying it nowadays.

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- Balthazar@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  And didn’t you have to pay to not be listed?
  
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  - dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    You did, at least eventually. This could be argued to be a very early, not to mention analog, form of enshittification.
    
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southsamurai@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
Yup. Totally real. It’s all essentially public information to begin with. You have to have an address for taxes, and deeds need names on them. So there’s a certain degree of information that’s going to be available to pretty much everyone, if they go looking.

Phone books were useful at one point, though less so for individuals. They’re still useful for local businesses.

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- SerotoninSwells@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  
  Phone books were useful at one point, though less so for individuals.
  
  Not saying you’re wrong but it reminded me of a moment when I was a kid. I was all of five years old when I got lost in rural Arizona. I was visiting my grandparents and my cousin and I went out looking for turtles after a monsoon the night before. I got separated from my older cousin and then lost. I wandered around for hours until I found the main road that led through a nearby small town. I managed to hitchhike to the local trading post where the clerk managed to find my grandparents phone number to let them know they had found me.
  
  They were sometimes useful. Also, they were great for prank calls.
  
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  - andrewrgross@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    I’m 38. I remember a few times when I was a kid needed to call a classmate urgently. Like, maybe i needed to know what math problems we were assigned as homework. For folks I knew well, I might have their number written down in a book in a desk drawer, but for anyone else I would have to look up their last name in the white pages and read down a list trying to find the right number.
    
    Was their dad’s name Prescott? No, that’s not an ethnic match. Here’s a David. That sounds right. Oh! And it’s on Beacon! That’s the right neighborhood! That’s got to be it!
    
    I think about it all the time. You could find your teacher’s house and just go drop off a fruit basket or something if you wanted. It was crazy! It was just assumed that if someone wanted to find your house it was probably for a sensible reason. Why otherwise? If you’re paranoid or a public figure then maybe you’d choose to be unlisted, but for anyone else there’s no point in it.
    
    Simpler times, for sure. I’d still like to go back. I think it was worth it. The alternative doesn’t seem to work. We’re all getting constantly harassed with robo calls and stalked on line. At this point, the only people who don’t know where we live are the ones who might drop off a casserole. We’ve gained nothing.
    
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BackOnMyBS@lemmy.autism.place ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
Yep, which allowed us to make great prank calls because people wouldn’t expect us to be calling them since they hadn’t given us their phone number. If someone had a popular name, like Miguel Rodriguez in Miami, you might have to make a few attempts to get the right one though.

Fun fact: Phone books are the reason there are some businesses called AAA. Businesses, such as locksmiths, plumbers, and other rarely used services, would name themselves AAA because it would make their listing first in the type/subject by alphabetical order.

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- Acamon@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  Original SEO
  
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- person420@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  It was more than just the phone books. Back before smart phones, if you needed to look up a phone number you’d call information (411) and they’d look it up for you. For instance, if you were stuck on the side of the road and needed a tow truck.
  
  Information would be able to look up businesses close to where you were using the NPA/NXX of the phone number you were calling from (the first six digits of the number including the area code) and then give you a couple options in alphabetical order.
  
  I had a client who had a phone number in every exchange in NYC and had a name like “AAA Towing” so no matter where in NYC you called information for a tow truck from, they’d usually be the first option given to you.
  
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- Fondots@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  Same goes for a lot of generic-sounding “A” business names- Acme, Apex, Ajax, A+, American-whatever, etc.
  
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  - WhiskyTangoFoxtrot@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    Apple, Atari
    
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  - jqubed@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    Acme has the added benefit of meaning “peak” so it could convey the connotation of being “best”
    
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InEnduringGrowStrong@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
Phone books had your name and phone numbers. Some had your street address too.
Before that, there were books that even had your occupation.

Random directory example from 1886:
Image Last name, first name, occupation, street name, number.

1790…

Image

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- geekwithsoul@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  <waves at likely a fellow genealogist!> :)
  
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ricecake@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
I have never felt so old.

Name, address, and phone number of the account holder used to be published in books that got sent to everyone in the city and also just left lying in boxes that had phones in them if you needed to make a call while you weren’t home, because your phone used to be tied to a physical location.
You also used to have to pay extra to make calls to places far away because it used more phone circuits. And by “far away” I mean roughly 50 miles.

It’s not the biggest thing in the world, privacy wise, since a surprising amount of information is considered public.
If you know an address, it’s pretty much trivial to find the owners name, basic layout of the house, home value, previous owners, utility bill information, tax payments, and so on. I looked up my information and was able to pretty easily get the records for my house, showing I pay my bills on time, when I got my air conditioner replaced and who the contractor who did it was.

As an example, here’s the property record for a parking structure owned by the state of Michigan. I chose a public building accessible by anyone and owned by a government to avoid randomly doxing someone, but it’s really as easy as searching for public records for some county or city and you’ll find something pretty fast.

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- WoahWoah@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  I use one of those services, Optery in my case. Do you think that’s just a waste of money (honest question)? It definitely reduced my footprint for simple googling, but I’ve been wondering if it’s really worth the cost.
  
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  - ricecake@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    Honestly? It’s not something I would pay for. Google has their own service where they’ll let you know if they find your information and you can ask them to remove the search result.
    Beyond that, there’s some information that you just fundamentally can’t make private and no service can get taken down.
    Most data mining sites just collect those public records and put them next to each other, so they get a pile of your name, birthday, where you were born, how active you are as a voter and all that stuff.
    
    Removing your address from Google maps just seems silly to me. That there is a residence there is fundamentally public information, not being on maps doesn’t make it less public it just probably causes issues for delivery drivers.
    
    Anyone who has your data and is going to be a jerk about it isn’t going to listen to a request to take it down either. They’re just going to send you spam messages.
    
    The odds of being Targeted by a determined individual who’s focused explicitly on you is low. They tend to target a broad swath of people, and then dig in on people who take the bait a few times.
    
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skullgiver@popplesburger.hilciferous.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
This was much less of an issue back when you couldn’t open a bank account in someone’s name from halfway across the world. Phishing and identity theft were impossible to pull off until companies started trusting phone services and later the internet. You needed to show up in person with a realistic fake ID to do anything malicious.

Now that nobody meets face to face for stuff like cashing a cheque or even ordering a large quantity of groceries anymore, the few bits of personal information we can use to prove our identity are the only things protecting us.

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dylanmorgan@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
Charles Bukowski wrote maybe the most beautiful paean to the fact of the telephone book:

poemsdaily.livejournal.com/123676.html

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SonicBlue03@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
Yes. I live in a larger metropolitan area and there were both white and yellow (business) page editions that were 2 1/2 inches thick each.

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- WoahWoah@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  I’m amazed they were even that thin. It seems like they’d have to be huge.
  
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  - MolochAlter@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    Very small font on very thin paper.
    
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  - jqubed@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    You also need to keep in mind that there were not nearly as many phone numbers back then. While today a family of 4 might have a cell phone for each person (especially by the time the kids are teenagers), in the 20th century most families just had one number for the whole household (and the earlier you go there might have even been just one actual phone in the house).
    
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- dharmacurious@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  I’m probably misremembering, but I swear our phonebook was at least 5 inches thick. We used collect the neighbors because they didn’t want them, and then me and my friends would stack them in the club house we chairs.
  
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MrsDoyle@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
You could opt out of being in the phone book. I had to do this because a crazy woman who had had a teacher by the same name as me, in the same suburb as me, kept ringing me. First call she said, “Guess who this is?” Dunno. By the tenth call that first day she was yelling down the phone that I was a liar, asking me “Why are you being like this?!?” Because I was never your teacher! No caller id back then, so I had to keep right on answering. One time I picked up and shouted “FUCK OFF!” and yeah it was a work colleague, that was awkward.

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friend_of_satan@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
I hated how these were delivered to you whether you wanted them or not. So much junk.

They made really great fires though if you tore each page out and crumpled them up.

Also interesting, I took one about an inch or so thick and shot it point blank with a 12 gauge shotgun and tiny yellow circular confetti came out, which was neat to see.

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- WoahWoah@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  My parents got the newspaper when I was young, that’s kind of that was. It would just stack up because they rarely ever read it and then eventually we’d burn a bunch in the backyard firepit or use it to start the fireplace.
  
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viralJ@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
I come from Poland and yes, totally. When I started school, and missed lessons because I was sick or whatever, I could just take the phone book and find the surname of the classmate I wanted to get notes or homework from. If there were a few surnames on the list and I didn’t know their father (it was always the man of the house who was listed) first name, I could just go by who appeared to live closest to the school. Or just start calling all the numbers until I got the right one.

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DirigibleProtein@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
Yes

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some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
See the film, Terminator. It’s how the machine finds women named Sarah Connor. Or maybe that was Kyle Reese. Either way, it was a major plot point.

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Rhoeri@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
TIL we’re at the point where people don’t know what a phone book is. My god I’m old.

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- WoahWoah@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  I knew phone books used to exist, but I guess I just thought it was for businesses. I didn’t know it also had the first and last name, number, and address of basically everyone that lived in a town.
  
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cypherpunks@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telephone_directory

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OpenStars@discuss.online ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
infosec.pub/post/18142706

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- BackOnMyBS@lemmy.autism.place ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  If anyone gets pictures of me naked, let me know what you think 🫦
  
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  - OpenStars@discuss.online ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    Ho ho ho, okay then! (But not me in reverse - I don’t think I want to know!?:-P)
    
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andrewrgross@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
[deleted]
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- WoahWoah@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
  Oh dang, sorry you deleted this. Those last two lines were very true. I’m going to quote them, but if you want me to delete it just LMK:
  
  At this point, the only people who don’t know where we live are the ones who might drop off a casserole. We’ve gained nothing.
  
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  - andrewrgross@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago
    Oh! Apologies, I just saw that someone else said something relevant and decided to post my comment as a reply to them instead of a top level comment. Sorry for the confusion!
    
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