Submitted 2 months ago by 101@feddit.org to technology@lemmy.world
https://samcurry.net/hacking-kia
Yeah… fuck this shit. This is part of the reason I still drive a nearly 20 year old vehicle. It has features I want, and can’t be stolen via fucking API calls. Absolute insanity.
I think Hyundai/Kia group has done unfathomable damage to their brands. Kia, despite being a budget brand, wants to be seen as a legit competitor to Toyota or at least Nissan. Their corner cutting with the immobilizers and the resulting “USB” theft shit was bad enough. Now this exploit.
They’re just terrible cars. I’ve had two…they were great until they weren’t. I literally had a screw fall out of the headliner the other day bringing it home from a nearly 1000$ exhaust patch/repair. It’s not 10 years old yet and only has 60k miles.
The other one has had the engine replaced already (under warranty thank god).
We are likely replacing both of them next year. I’m never buying a Kia again.
I’m so sad GM killed SAAB. Only decent cars left are Volvo and Subaru.
My Toyota with 300k+ miles has cost me $285 in repairs minus maintenance costs. I’ll likely get at least another 100k. Just placing these goalposts here…
I had an '11 optima sx, right after the refresh. Beautiful car. Returned the lease on its 3rd engine.
1st one had a spark plug fail and basically melt. Piston seized. Had power, then it didn’t, while doing 60 over a bridge.
2nd one went after an engine mount failed. Block ended up cracking.
Only consolation was that I was paying kia prices, not their over inflated sense of self pricing they try now.
The stats disagree with you, so your anecdotes don’t really mean anything…
There’s just no good reason to have anything beyond the radio/nav etc in a car connected to the Internet. Remote start can be done with just the key.
You know what fuck builtin nav. Connect it to my phone and let that be it for navigation.
And same for music. What year is this 2010?
Plus if you use your phone for nav you can use whatever maps you like. My city is mapped pretty good on openstreetmap so that’s what I use.
I mean, there are plenty of very good reasons.
My car reminds me if the doors are unlocked or left open. I can adjust the charging speed at any time. I can turn on the HVAC and seat heaters before I leave. I can see my current state of charge. I can see exactly what is happening when my alarm goes off. I can see exactly where it is if it’s stolen. Etc.
You can argue that those are not important to you, personally but I don’t think you can argue that they aren’t good reasons.
I think there are certainly other wireless technologies that are superior in many ways and can supplement or replace the need for internet access in your immediate area.
I think the point is that there isn’t a good enough reason to put internet in a car that negates the risk of it.
It is like adding lead to food. It’s a cheap sweetener with no calories. You can argue that cheap sweeteners aren’t important to you, but I don’t think you can argue that it isn’t a good reason. It just isn’t a good enough reason to negate the risk.
frankly they aren’t good reasons.
the first bunch provides info and abilities that are only relevant when you are in the car. this is like wanting to know your house’s temperature when you are in the store, or on vacation. what the fuck you do with that information?
the remaining about the alarm and it being stolen, what are you going to do with this? go after them with your 4th car and a shotgun? let’s hope they did not disconnect the batteries…
You can argue that those are not important to you, personally but I don’t think you can argue that they aren’t good reasons.
These sound like “value-add module purchased at or after time of sale” reasons.
In short, they’re features and not requirements.
That’s a very subjective take. My friends and family that live in hot climates love the ability to remotely turn on and pre-cool their vehicles.
Both of those functions have been available via key fob for at least a decade, no internet required. Though yes the range on that can be limited.
And by using that internet connected feature you’re 100% handing out your driving info to your car manufacturer, who in turn will sell it to LexisNexis, who in turn will sell it to insurance companies, who in turn will jack up your insurance prices.
As I said in my comment, that can be done with the key, no Internet connection needed.
As for the lock thing, I just need to look if my mirrors are folded in or not.
😭
I would say even those don’t need Internet. Navigation can be updated using a USB drive, and I have a phone for audio so I just need bluetooth.
The only network connection I want in my car is to notify emergency services if the airbags go off.
Things like live traffic require a connection though, and Google maps I think does the routing calcs off the device. Most people will use their phone for all that, but the use case is there.
Let the fucking hacking begin. Fuck these assholes. They are milking people out of their last penny, and on top of that they’re selling people’s driving data to data brokers who sell it to insurance companies that jack up prices.
Let the fucking hacking begin. Fuck these assholes.
Then you’re gonna hack the company, not the endusers’ cars.
Right?
Right?
The ones on the dealership lot
I hope so? Lol
FYI: From the article: “These vulnerabilities have since been fixed, this tool was never released, and the Kia team has validated this was never exploited maliciously.”
Well I wouldn’t really trust kia, who released these gaping vulnerabilities and benefit the most from pretending ain’t no big thing, with these statements
I’ve noticed a lot of issues showing up for the Kia and Hyundai cars security wise. I wonder if they’re having issues because there’s more focus on those cars or if their security is really that bad.
The kia “challenge” where people were stealing kia cars with a USB cord is because they opted not to include an immobilizer in US models of their cars for nearly a decade. Every other car brand had them as standard. Kia even had them as standard in non US cars, but because the USA stupidly does not have a law about them, kia made the international choice to drastically reduce car security to save a few dollars per car for themselves.
This incredibly greedy and stupid choice, that still does not have an actual fix, has associated their brand with bad security, making them targets.
I’m still amazed that immobilizers aren’t a legal requirement in the USA, and that Kia would remove them from US models just to save a small amount of money.
Both probably. I’m sure a lot of cars have problems like this, but they just haven’t been found and there are already known vulnerabilities to focus on.
Don’t look into South Korean web security. If their cars are as badly designed as their websites… Yikes
They went balls deep with the devil’s spawn called nprotect.
This is the problem with digital serfdom, those lording it over us aren’t perfect either. Not only should we be able to connect our cars to our own server, we should be able inspect provided server implementation to see if it’s a bag of nails.
aren’t perfect either
You misspelled “are fucking morons” :)
This is why you have to install the latest software updates on your license plate. One time I let my gas cap firmware get outdated and someone downloaded my car.
$ wget kiasorrento.sh
…looks like it’s my car now. 😈😆
I know the majority of you hate Tesla, but security is something they do take more seriously. They even take part in pwn2own to help find vulnerabilities.
All auto manufacturers should be taking part in that.
I have my money on Tesla being the first cloud-connected car (that phrase shouldn’t exist) to be hacked and push a malicious firmware that will cause all cars to simultaneously activate self driving and to pull a hard left at a specific time (time bomb).
You should watch - Leave the World Behind
You might be right, but I don’t think it’ll be because their cars are the easiest to hack, it’ll be because they have the most cars out there capable of doing this and it’d be more impactful attack if successful.
They are definitely a prime target.
We hate Elon, Tesla is Ok
There’s a portion that only hate Elon and not Tesla, but there’s a lot of Tesla hate out there as well, and there has been since even before Elon publicly went off the deepend.
Some of that might be decisions that Elon made for Tesla, but it’s still at Tesla.
I also love how Tesla engineers pay attention to small quality-of-life things like racing games to play while you wait for charge using the wheel as controller, using the built-in 360 camera as dashcam and parking monitor.
Why does a car need to be connected to the internet?
This is my car, I have a stereo with entertainment features. My mileage, drive time, fuel economy, and anything related to the systems of the car, shows up on a separate display strip. To the best of my knowledge, the stereo cannot control the car in any way. Its just there to play music for me. I dread the day I have to replace this car. I may just buy an old pre-telemetry 4x4. The roads around here have gotten too bad for a hatchback anyway.
Yup, that’s how it should be across the board. That’s how it is with modern airliners. The redundancy of having each system be controlled by multiple computers is nullified if a hacker can get to control all of them, including the ones which are safety critical, just by hacking one. I honestly don’t blame you, I love the internet but there really are situations where something really doesn’t need to be connected to the internet.
Nice writeup
smiles contentedly in 2003 1.8T Jetta 5MT
Agreed. But I am getting more and more concerned we won’t always be able to keep or buy an old car and avoid these pitfalls
I’m likely 3 to 6 years away from having to buy a new/used car and I don’t think il be able to (or actually want) a 20 year old car
Yeah I have to replace the suction side AC line on mine and the OE part alone is about 350-400 and absolutely impossible to find 💀
solsangraal@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
dumb cars will be worth their weight in gold soon
Frog@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
Just like how manual cars became anti theft.
Rai@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
My friend has his Kia broken into and started, but it’s a standard so they ditched it hahaha
TheOSINTguy@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
That’s if you can find one for an affordable price.
pumpkinseedoil@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Huh?
scottmeme@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
My car got dumbed for me because they killed the 3g network it was running on
Dran_Arcana@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Just because you can’t use it doesn’t mean a hacker can’t. If someone discovered a vulnerability in the 3g handshake or encryption protocol, it could be an avenue for an RCE.
Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 2 months ago
You could just find and disable the wireless modems.
this_1_is_mine@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Cool just like trying to replace a blower motor in a modern car feel free to rip the entire dash out only to find out it has a second antenna all the way in the back underneath the spare tire also behind a tail light which somehow requires you to remove the muffler to get to…
parpol@programming.dev 2 months ago
You’d probably have more luck installing a signal jammer in your car.
The best you can hope for is a rootkit and some Linux-based OS for cars to be developed so you can take full control.
StrongHorseWeakNeigh@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Not only what that other person said but it would probably void the warranty too.
echodot@feddit.uk 2 months ago
I wish, but most people don’t know / care about this stuff, it’s not going to really percolate into the public consciousness .
According to the dealership my car isn’t worth it’s weight grass clippings because it’s too old.
solsangraal@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
lol it’s not the dealers who will want them
NotMyOldRedditName@lemmy.world 2 months ago
The car will still work if you take the radio out, maybe that’ll become a thing in the future, but that might fuck with the paid charging infrastructure.
NikkiDimes@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Fucking wot