I pity the poor fool who sets up their smart TV instead of just grabbing an HDMI cable and plugging in their computer.
Your TV set has become a digital billboard. And it’s only getting worse.
Submitted 2 months ago by moe90@feddit.nl to technology@lemmy.world
Comments
DirkMcCallahan@lemmy.world 2 months ago
cRazi_man@lemm.ee 2 months ago
That is beyond the capabilities of normies.
My wife would agree with this:
And I’ve got Plex running on an always on NAS.
BakedCatboy@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
Lmao that greentext was literally me before I finally set up arrstack. One of the best investments of my time, it has definitely paid off over many years of just having things automatically download.
Cl1nk@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
This is the way
ChillPill@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Ive been pretty happy so far with roku and blocking stuff with pihole, but every day I am more and more tempted to build a media pc…
MagicShel@programming.dev 2 months ago
This is the way to go. I tried pihole using Samsung smart features, but if you block so the telemetry eventually your apps stop working and you can’t get them working again without doing a factory reset with blocking down. It’s prohibitively a pain in the ass, taking hours every time YouTube stops working.
Never had any issues with Roku on pihole.
yggstyle@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Currently trying that for the same reasons you are tempted. Roku was passable and even a good choice years ago and it’s on a precipitous race to the bottom now.
Problem for me currently is finding a non windows solution that is navigable from a controller or remote is … tough. Steam, emulation station, Kodi all have reasonable interfaces but there seems to be a gap in a unified launcher solution (as well as a decent ‘app’ for accessing YouTube.) I really don’t want to spin up a single VM for each activity when they all in theory should play nice together.
eatCasserole@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Yeh, if I ever see my TV’s OS I’m like “fuck off! HDMI4!”
ripcord@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Ew.
natebluehooves@pawb.social 2 months ago
We had a samsung 4k curved tv that has ads on the input menu, and the ad space is filled with a samsung ad if the set has never connected to the internet.
It also harasses you with a pop up about connecting occasionally on startup.
It’s bearable but absurd. We returned it on principle
toynbee@lemmy.world 2 months ago
That is my preference, but my wife says she prefers only one step (turning on and using the TV) over multiple (turning on the TV, turning on the secondary system and using multiple controllers) so we go with the simpler setup per her request.
I did put my TVs on a Wi-Fi network separate from my main one so, while they do show ads as much as my pihole allows, at least they’re theoretically only spying on each other.
asap@lemmy.world 2 months ago
With HDMI-CEC you can achieve what your wife wants. I have one remote to turn on my Nvidia Shield (with Plex, Jellyfin, Netflix, etc), and that same remote also controls all TV functions.
cupcakezealot@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 months ago
ByteOnBikes@slrpnk.net 2 months ago
I went to a buddy’s house to watch TV and that’s how his Xbox Live looks like.
Like they’re so oblivious and he’s paying for that shit.
Usernameblankface@lemmy.world 2 months ago
With that level of ads, they should get paid to watch it.
yggstyle@lemmy.world 2 months ago
*Start menu in windows 11
… both Microsoft products … weird.
Good_morning@lemmynsfw.com 2 months ago
Huh? Watching TV on his Xbox live? It definitely didn’t look like that
teft@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Mine is a monitor and nothing more.
QBertReynolds@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Bonus points for buying a smart TV to get the heavily discounted price and never connecting it to the internet.
kent_eh@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
Some of the brands have been reported to not allow you to do anything until it has an internet connection to do its “initial setup” (or some such excuse).
I hope I can find a list of which ones to avoid when I have to eventually replace my old dumb TV.
ICastFist@programming.dev 2 months ago
Even then, you’re still having to wait for its CPU to fuck around with the image and sound before it actually outputs it,
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I am so genuinely surprised that there isnt a bigger movement to hack TVs to replace the OS’s on them with non-invasive open software alternatives.
thatKamGuy@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Because it’s not actually necessary; leave the TV isolated from the internet and use a set-top box (Apple TV, Shield, game console) as the media player.
GenosseFlosse@feddit.org 2 months ago
While I agree, I think this solution is some nonsense. I bought a “TV” and paid for all the hardware and software that went into it, but I essentially have to use it as a monitor with my own hardware to escape the enshittification.
HelixDab2@lemm.ee 2 months ago
Don’t give your TV the wifi password, kids. No, you don’t need to ‘finish setting up’ your TV; it works just fine as a dumb display.
ThePowerOfGeek@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Next time I have to get a new TV I think I’ll just get a large computer monitor and stream content via an old mini PC with Linux installed on it. Not an ideal solution, but I’m so tired of this invasive bullshit. At least that will cut out some of its vectors.
After the recent Roku TOS fiasco I’m done with them. If manufacturers won’t give us a viable situation we will make one ourselves.
Anyone know a good OS setup for reduced ad streaming? I know about Pi-Holes, but I’m talking about a way of actually streaming content (in addition to blocking ads at our near the router level).
Aceticon@lemmy.world 2 months ago
A way more than enough Mini PC for streaming content costs about $140 nowadays.
It’s a direction I went into recently and was amazingly surprised how cheap it all is.
HelixDab2@lemm.ee 2 months ago
I use my PS5, TBH. I still get ads on Amazon Prime, but I’m not seeing Netflix ads. (I also don’t have Hulu, etc.) I pay for a VPN for my desktop–I’m using Win 11 IoT Enterprise LTSC–and with Firefox and uBlockOrigin I see pretty minimal ads online; if you’re able to open your streaming service in a browser rather than needing to download their application, then a VPN an uBlockOrigin might be sufficient.
tobogganablaze@lemmus.org 2 months ago
Dumb monitor > smart TV.
Ugurcan@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Point is, it’s near impossible to find a dumb tv with good specs. Like LG is producing no-smart version of LG C3 (best display ever so far), but it’s only sold to businesses.
ItsComplicated@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Average users will not have the knowledge or patience for work arounds.
Imo, the larger problem seems to be the majority of users appear to be fine with ads and data collection just to watch a movie or series.
the_post_of_tom_joad@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Imo, the larger problem seems to be
the majority of users appear to be fine with ads and data collectiona lax and ineffective regulation.“Voting with your wallets” is a false premise dreamed up by corporate to avoid govt regulation and has not and will never be a real thing that works in this world of monopoly and lack of option.
henfredemars@infosec.pub 2 months ago
It only works in competition which we don’t have for the most part.
LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Yeah that’s well put. All this advocacy for adblockers and not accepting the awful state of things fall on deaf ears, most people don’t care, they accept the state of things as it is, and technology as magic.
ItsComplicated@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
People deserve better and should expect/demand better.
kent_eh@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
They’re not “fine with ads and data collection” so much as they don’t care and can’t be bothered to look for a better way.
It’s just apathy and a bit of lazy inertia.
ItsComplicated@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
they don’t care and can’t be bothered to look for a better way.
This implies they are fine with it by tacit agreement.
Angry_Autist@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Your average user would also never be on lemmy to see this, at least for now.
kusivittula@sopuli.xyz 2 months ago
and i bet if most users would not put up with that, they would remove hdmi ports.
Thorny_Insight@lemm.ee 2 months ago
My 10 year old TV which I watch 10 year old TV-series via HDMI from? I don’t think so.
Tomorrow there’s going to be article about how my car spies on me as if that’s not 15 years old too. Or something about my office job that I don’t have.
I’m becoming irrelevant. Not the target audience for anything.
grue@lemmy.world 2 months ago
That has also been my strategy (both for TVs and cars), but that doesn’t mean it’s reasonable to pretend that it’s a solution for the general public or that consumer-protection regulation isn’t both abundantly warranted and sorely needed.
someguy3@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Unfortunately things wear out and you have to buy new ones.
bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 2 months ago
It tooke about 6 months to find my truck that didn’t have the connectivity link it. I think everything after 2022 on these you’re pretty much screwed, but it was an adventure to say the least.
chemicalprophet@lemm.ee 2 months ago
I can barely see the ads whilst sailing the high seas. IP is the fakest of P.
Angry_Autist@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Yar me hearties! There be booty on that there internet!
Eric_Pollock@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Server to host media. Super easy to set up and can run on a Windows client. Don’t even need an independent server to run it on. jellyfin.org
kodi.tv (or libreelec.tv for an OS that boots to just Kodi)
Application to watch through Kodi github.com/jellyfin/jellycon
Client to run Kodi on: MeLE PCG02 Mini PC Stick a.co/d/1EGnekO
If you didn’t want to install LibreELEC to the PC and just want to keep Windows, you could run Kodi in Kiosk mode and it would boot directly to is just like LibreELEC.
I have not watched normal TV in years, let alone an ad on my TV. I spoke to my neighbors one day and figured out they were paying ~$60 a month for all their streaming services, and they’re STILL getting ads…
Stuff like this is unacceptable, and I refuse to partake in the lunacy and delusion that is modern television.
MaggiWuerze@feddit.org 2 months ago
LainTrain@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
And also a good degree of bugs and enshittification
helenslunch@feddit.nl 2 months ago
The number of people suggesting this shit as a replacement for streaming services is way too damn high.
The monetary cost of the hardware is insane if you want to have any sort of hardware to store your data. But the time investment to get something like this running is 10x more. And at the end of the day it’s all 100% illegal and liable to get you in tons of trouble.
DJDarren@thelemmy.club 2 months ago
My TV is a smart TV whose smart features I never, ever use because the first thing it does is switch to the input my Apple TV is on.
Ironic really that the reason I chose an LG is because webOS seems less cunty than Android TV and whatever shit Samsung are offering. But I still never use it.
Princeofspace@lemm.ee 2 months ago
I was pleasantly surprised that my Sony tv has a basic option so you can use it just as a screen. All smart stuff disabled.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 2 months ago
webOS seems less cunty than Android TV
Every time they do an update, things get worse. But my last TV had some dying pixels, so there’s no going back.
Zorque@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Can you install separate launchers on webOS? I installed a launcher on my Android TV and haven’t seen an ad since, even with smart features.
cheese_greater@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Not mine
Unlocalhost@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Start buying commercial displays. Cost more but will be about as close to a dumb tv. You will have to provide your own smart device for apps …
GenosseFlosse@feddit.org 2 months ago
Commercial displays are not tvs. Quite often the refresh rate is terrible and you cannot watch action movies on it, because it was designed to show static billboard ads.
xthexder@l.sw0.com 2 months ago
Not to mention if you want an OLED display, any sort of commercial variant of that will be $10000+ and marketed to Hollywood producers and other creative industries that care about color accuracy.
kamen@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Since at one point in the near future I’ll be shopping for a TV, is there such a thing as a good as a good quality panel TV that is dumb? I intend to hook it up to a PC or a set top box. Alternatively, is there a smart TV that can be easily bootloader unlocked and rooted without consequences (similarly to how a Pixel phone can)? I realise this is even more niche than unlocking/rooting a phone, but still, someone might have ideas.
Sabata11792@ani.social 2 months ago
I revived the old LCD my grandparents were throwing out because it had good specs and no built in ads. Tossed in a new capacitor and it was good to go, otherwise I would just not own a TV.
Reverendender@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Pro Tip: Connect your TV to your Wi-Fi so the TV doesn’t bother you constantly, and shut off access outside your network at the router level.
noisypine@infosec.pub 2 months ago
Disconnected my TV from the Internet. I stream media from a PC on my lan to Kodi running on a fire stick. Setup openwrt to drop all packets to wan from the fire stick. These companies can get fucked and if they ever figure out a way to stop me from owning my devices, I’ll just take up some new hobbies and be done with it all.
fishbone@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Jokes on them, my TV can’t connect to the internet anymore because of the the bloat added by Roku in automatic updates.
Etterra@lemmy.world 2 months ago
That’s one reason I ditched cable years ago. Why the hell should I pay Comcast for the “privilege” of watching commercials?
Fun fact, Mythbusters episodes have a longer international edit length because America has substantially longer commercial breaks.
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 2 months ago
As opposed to the old days, when it was an analog billboard
MaggiWuerze@feddit.org 2 months ago
Problem is getting an 55+" Screen with an OLED panel and support for HDR in a non-smart package
Aceticon@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I replaced the TV Box from my ISP as well as the Media Player I already had for local media with a cheap mini-PC running Lubuntu and Kodi and have seen only a handful of adverts on my TV in the last couple of months (which I might only when I’m watching Live-TV).
The whole thing is now under my control and hence I don’t have to endure that crap.
Granted, I’ve been a Techie for decades and have for a long time been very aware of how software with Internet access is an agent of the software maker serving their objectives, not of yours serving your interests and how anything you paid for held by somebody else isn’t yours until you take them into Court for it and win (so your “bought” movies held in somebody else’s system aren’t yours) so I never jumped into the Streaming bandwagon and instead kept my eyepatch handy and wooden leg polished, and when I got a TV some years ago I very purposefully avoided “smart” ones like the plague.
Frankly even if you’re not technically adept just get a Mini-PC and install LibreElec on it (which is purposefully made for non-Technical users to just to run Kodi) and get used to using Kodi. If you’re into paying for it you can even subscribe to perfectly legit IPTV subscriptions with hundreds of Live-TV channels.
(I’m running Lubunto, a more generalistic lightweight Linux distro where I explicitly installed Kodi, rather than LibreElec, because I use it for more things than just watching stuff on my TV).
Usernameblankface@lemmy.world 2 months ago
My cheap projector doesn’t have 4k, but it also doesn’t have ads
PhAzE@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
Pi-hole, nvidia shield, custom launcher = less ads for the whole family
7U5K3N@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Pihole on your network… And block Internet access to the TV…
Tho… a while back the wife and I bought a dirt cheap 32 inch TV from bestbuy… it will literally turn itself on to deliver an advertisement if you power it off while in an app. (Skipping the home page)
Pihole crashes it.
We bought it for watching football outside so it’s unplugged for the majority of the year… but that’s still absolutely unacceptable. Imho
BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 2 months ago
My tv hasn’t seen an ad since i plugged it in.
Bob71@lemmynsfw.com 2 months ago
The cheapest 40" Bestbuy TV is a solid “dumb” TV. No software at all.
caboose2006@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
Yet another justification for piracy
PoopMonster@lemmy.world 2 months ago
My best purchase in the last couple of years was a 4k Sceptre TV from Walmart. Super cheap, good enough video quality and is dumb, just turns on to 4hdmi ports. That way I can just plug in whatever I want, or get a $30 roku and replace it whenever they update it to the point where it lags on basic menu navigation like my previous tvs.
Fuck all that bloatware, ad infested crap.
daddy32@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Fuck me, this is the amount of money that’s enough motivation for them to ruin my experience and make me angry?
I guess regular users have much higher tolerance to ads than me, but our home has a strict zero ad policy.
HelixDab2@lemm.ee 2 months ago
A quick check online says that Samsung–which has about 25% of the global market–sold at least 1M OLED televisions and 8.3M QLED televisions in 2023. So, let’s say that they sell 9.5M televisions annually (I’m not sure if the numbers are global or US-only); that’s $190M in pure profit from advertising alone. For a billion-dollar plus corporation, that might seem small, but it’s certainly enough to get them to take notice.
ItsComplicated@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
This should add to their profits.
Aceticon@lemmy.world 2 months ago
It’s even better for them: those $190M are per-year for the lifetime of that TV.
So if for simplification we said they also sold 9.5M TVs in 2021 and again in 2022, in the year of 2024 the will be making $570M from the TVs they sold in 2021, 2022 and 2023.
If Samsung TVs are used in average for 10 years, in 2033 they will still be making money from TVs sold in 2024 and all the years in between. If their rate of sales remains 9.5M per year and how much they generate per quarter in data and advertising revenue from those TVs remains $5 (true, all big simplifications), by 2033 they will be making $1.90 BILLIONS from just this in addition to what they make from selling TVs.
No wonder they’re full in on this monetization of users even whilst pissing off users - they would need to loose a huge number of sales due to this for it to not be worth it for them.
ninja@lemmy.world 2 months ago
That’s just 1 year’s sales. If the TV lasts 5 years it’s raking in 5 times the data. 190M x 5 = 950M/year, and 5 seems conservative.
Zwiebel@feddit.org 2 months ago
I’ve heard somewhere else that it’s a 50/50 split between the TV sales and ad revenue
Landless2029@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Roku is selling televisions at a loss with the intent on injecting ads based on whats on screen including detecting when you pause a show/game and injecting ads
Patient Pending…
pdxfed@lemmy.world 2 months ago
That was the sentence that stuck out to me the most in the whole article as well. Incredible how much is lost for so little. I imagine it’s like drug dealers though, maybe $5 for the first seller, then gets chopped up and cut again and sold for less and chopped up again…
My question is, what are the alternatives? Other than finder older TVs without so much junkware and spyware, Are there open OS ROMs that can be loaded? Cracked firmware or debloated ROMs? I was very into Android’s launch 15 years ago and rode a train of options away from terrible stock ROMs from various OEMs; eventually privacy and simplicity becomes a selling point for OS after companies get through enshittifying it.
grue@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I’d like for us all to stop for a moment and appreciate just how thoroughly and comprehensively fucked up it is that Linux, which is what all these TVs are running and which is supposed to be Free Software (which exists for the express purpose of empowering the user’s right to control his device), has been subverted so goddamn badly!
nullPointer@programming.dev 2 months ago
“commercial display” is a worth while route to explore. They do cover a wider range of image quality and features, so it does take paying close attention to specifications.
TORFdot0@lemmy.world 2 months ago
If a company could pay $5 a customer for a competitive edge in customer satisfaction over their competitors, they would. Either they are getting way more than that or there is some cartel/monopoly action going on in the market. Maybe they are playing the long game to introduce an ad free model at a premium.
Still don’t see how nobody is undercutting existing players with ad free, smart tvs.
The_v@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Why is basic math.
In a made up scenario let’s start with a dumb 50"ish TV. That cost them around $100 to build. Add in another $50 for shipping and distribution fees. It’s at the store for $150 cost. If they set the price at $400. There is $250 dollars of profit to share between the store and the manufacturer. The manufactuerer likely gets under $100.
Now for a smart TV the revenue stream looks different. First their costs only go up by a few dollars for adding the “smart” chips. So let’s say $155 cost. Then they collect revenue from the streaming providers to be supported by their smart TV say $30 per set. Then they collect the $20 per set per year in user data collected. So if they price the smart TV the same as the dumb one they generate $95 from the sale of the set.
So the profit from a dumb TV is $100 at he point of sale.
The profit from a smart TV is $225+ in a constant revenue stream over 5 years.
And this is why we see so much advertising for smart TV’s as being the best thing.