Comment on Homeowner baffled after washing machine uses 3.6GB of internet data a day
kescusay@lemmy.world 2 months ago
This particular homeowner is baffled that anyone would buy a washing machine that needs an internet connection. I’m all for smart appliances, but a smart washing machine is a solution in search of a problem.
I’m all for smart appliances
I’m personally not. I’m for appliances with a standard interface, maybe, through which it can be connected to some smart home system.
I do not mean internet access or anything else “smart” in the appliance itself. I mean being able to use the same functions as buttons and indicators offer, remotely. I2C will do.
What you have just described could be ZigBee and/or MQTT.
And Z-wave
No need for radio even. MQTT - yes.
I2C is very short range, it’s meant for connecting parts on the same board. You want something like RS-485. The Modbus protocol, which runs over RS-485 would be perfect for this.
Yes, from quick googling seems exactly what I want.
For the love of God, I just can’t understand how “needs Internet” became synonymous with “smart” in the appliances market slang. I know it’s what advertisers do, but this one is abysmal.
Well, calling a machine “smart” doesn’t seem smart to me in general
Forgotten laundry leads to mildew. Plenty of home assistance scripts out there to remind users to empty washer/dryer.
Makes sense for manufacturers to want to build this feature into the appliance itself.
Mildew doesn’t grow in 15min, it takes hours to even smell weird and days to grow fungi. It’s literally been cleaned with soap and hot water, there’s not much to grow left.
And the less “smart” function off just popping open the door when done prevents it too…
I just start a timer on my phone?
I have one for both my dryer and my washer.
I load the washer then start the timer, when it goes off I just load it in the dryer then start the other timer.
It’s super easy and it’s no effort at all.
I had an old wind up kitchen timer with writing on it for a while but I missed it a few too many times so I switched to the phone timers.
You don’t need it to be on the appliance itself. Hook a power metering smart outlet and you can tell. Or a shake sensor. Or an open door sensor. Combine them all for a reliable effective way to tell if it’s done and the door has been opened, all for a much lower price than what those “smart” appliances charge the premium for. This way you can also choose vendors that work on local wifi/zigbee/z wave and don’t own a paper weight or part functional item the moment the vendor decides to shutdown the servers.
Agreed, and this is what I have set up for mine… But this is also technologically so far out of reach for >95% of people…
I love mine. It reminds me when to clean it, when the drain is acting up, and when it’s done. It can even order supplies on its own. Sure all those things can be handled with a calendar but I’m lazy.
I love my brain chip. It reminds me when to clean myself, when my bowels are acting up, and when I’m dead. It can even order products I don’t need on its own. Sure all those things can be handled with my own brain but I’m lazy.
- your grandkids in 2074
You use a calendar for reminders right?
The drain issue might be hard to figure out on your own. Mine has a little notification light that comes on to run a self-clean cycle every x number of washes, but I’m pretty sure I’m the only one in my house who actually runs it.
So it has a mechanism to let you know when the drain is clogged?
Seems like it would be better to spend that engineering on making the drain work better.
Weird.
I’m all for smart appliances, but a smart washing machine is a solution in search of a problem.
I personally love smart washers. We have 5 adults at home. The app lets us know if it’s being used or not, and let’s us know how much longer left.
You can also use it to start a load while you’re at work when you didn’t want your clothes sitting after washing all day. True, there’s old school delay functions but this gives a little more control.
Not saying it’s worth it, but a feature I haven’t seen anyone else mention.
If you add white vinegar to load, you won’t get the ick from clothes sitting in washer for hours.
I can imagine that irritates some people’s skin though
There are situations where you might want to monitor water use (someone mentioned delaying cycles based on water softener status), or people like me who might need a phone reminder because I’ll forget I put a load in and get busy with something else and it’s nice if I don’t have the extra step of setting a timer and trying to get it just right.
The problem isn’t the connectivity, the problem is the proprietary cloud ecosystems. HomeAssistant is already a brilliant home automation hub, just make devices repairable and with local control and I’ll be a customer.
or people like me who might need a phone reminder because I’ll forget I put a load in and get busy with something else
This. As someone with ADHD, it’s very helpful to get an extra alert when my washer/dryer is done.
I used to pull this off with a Zigbee Smart Outlet + HA, which is frankly an OK fix, but did not work for my electric dryer.
When it came time to replace my old appliances, I got a smart washer & dryer, said what the hell and put it on an isolated network. It’s connected to HA via the cloud (not ideal but ¯\_(ツ)_/¯). It just works, and I wind up with mildewy neglected clothes less often.
It’s not perfect, but I’m willing to deal with isolating 2 appliances to cover for my attention span.
For me it isn’t about knowing when it’s done, it’s about it continuously annoying me if I still haven’t flipped it an hour later
Idk, in my particular situation I would like a smart washing machine. I have a smart fridge, that is essentially useless, but a smart washing machine omwould tell me when my laundry was done so I can switch it into the dryer. That actually seems useful in my particular situation.
I am completely in agreement and would be even willing to pay more for dumb appliances if it comes right down to it.
When your current washer breaks to the point of being unrepairable, you will find the only choice is an Internet connected washer.
I bought the same model Bosch dishwasher that I bought last year ( I have 2 dishwashers). Bosch added Internet to their dishwashers this year. I was enraged but had no choice. I haven’t turned the feature on but there’s Wi-Fi in my dishwasher screaming to get out to the Internet.
We need a law that all antennas come with a physical switch. Wifi, Cell, whatever comes next. They need a physical cut off switch just like privacy doors have become common on laptop cameras.
I simply will not buy a washing machine where some of the options for its regular use require an internet connection. I can see adding Bluetooth to it for things like remote control and phone notifications, or even WLAN support for connecting to some kind of smarthome hub that is internet-connected so you can get those notifications remotely. But the idea that smart == device-level internet connection is terrible. Appliances for basic living requirements, like laundry, should not require an internet connection of their own to function.
While I don’t have a smart washing machine, I use a smart power outlet to let me know when the laundry is done, remind me if the load is still sitting in the washer without moving to the drier, etc.
Definitely some legit use cases to make the process smart.
Electricity is pretty expensive where I live, but solar opportunity is fairly good. Selling power back to grid is nowhere near as cost effective as using solar directly.
So, I could see a compelling use case of, “I want my laundry done by X o’clock. Start the wash when it’ll be mostly on my cheap solar.”
But yeah. I would never buy one unless it supports local-only/VLAN-restricts-internet-access usage.
I set it up to alert my smart speakers when it's done so my family doesn't leave their laundry in the washer to mold and rot all day.
I just ordered a dryer that may have to go on top of my dishwasher which is on top of my washing machine - hard to explain why except to say there was no good place for the washing machine in the kitchen.
If that happens, I’ll be able to reach the clothes, but the control panel will be a big of a stretch. In that case wifi control could be clutch.
I’m so curious about your kitchen setup
There’s no dedicated spot for a dishwasher under any of the benches, and to get a hose out from the sink would need holes drilled that I’m not prepared to do becausei it’s a rental. Also, all the wall area is spoken for, and there are doors immediately next to the kitchen on both sides. One of those doors is the laundry, so I just stuck it in there. It’s a small laundry though, so there’s no space side by side for anything. If the triple stack doesn’t work, the dryer can go on the opposite side of the kitchen under or over my small freezer, since it doesn’t need water. That’s where my dishwasher would’ve gone if not for the hoses that would’ve needed to go across the floor.
If you’re putting in a dishwasher just drill the holes. Your landlord will thank you for saving them the trouble of having to do that themselves some day.
I don’t think any normal landlord would give two shits about some dishwasher-hose-sized holes drilled under a sink, between internal cabinet walls, that no one will ever see. Such holes are so far back and out of the way… No one would ever notice unless they’re missing.
I don’t know if the stack will work, unless you have tall ceilings. Standard dishwasher is 3ft, a miniature dryer is 2ft, and a miniature washing machine is 2ft. That’s 8ft without stacking hardware, and standard ceilings are 8ft 2in.
I don’t think any need an internet connection…
But some people connect everything they can for some reason.
I doubt it is needed. Certainly hope not.
tal@lemmy.today 2 months ago
I guess it can notify you via your cell phone when a load is done. I could see that having value.
kescusay@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Mine plays a loud jingle when it’s done, which seems to be enough for me.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Yup. There are two situations here:
If I’m at home and won’t hear the sound for some reason, I’ll just set an alarm on my phone. My washing machine tells me how long it’ll take, so there’s no guesswork here.
BorgDrone@lemmy.one 2 months ago
Washing machines exist that are smarter than just running a fixed program. They adjust the program, and thus duration, based om how dirty the clothes are. The same goes for dryers that look at the actual humidity of the clothes to determine if they’re finished.
amelia@feddit.de 2 months ago
Not trying to defend stupid internet connectivity but my washing machine is in the basement in a shared laundry room while I live on the second floor of the apartment building. No way I’ll hear it beep so a notification would be very useful actually.
umbrella@lemmy.ml 2 months ago
i have an old one without any of it and i dont even care, ill be there eventually and see its done.
im okay with my clothes waiting for a bit
transientpunk@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
Mine is in my garage, and I can’t hear the jingle from inside the house.
But two power monitoring smart plugs+ home assistant fixed that issue
woelkchen@lemmy.world 2 months ago
A timer on your phone would have done the same with less hassle.
bisby@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Its enough for me too. But not everyone has the same use case and environment. I definitely see why someone would want this.
What I disagree with is that it needs to communicate to the internet to do this. It adds delay and potential for outage if your internet is out. But they do this so they can force you to get their app and milk you for extra data to sell. Internet capable smart devices are to harvest data not grant features. Features could be done better by ZigBee and a hub, but that doesnt grant the device a way to phone home
kent_eh@lemmy.ca 2 months ago
Then again, a simple timer on your phone could do the same thing.
riskable@programming.dev 2 months ago
Wait: Do the times listed on the screen of your washer/dryer actually reflect reality‽
My dryer will say it’s got 20 minutes remaining for like an hour and a half. And yes, I clean the lint screen and vent regularly (all the way up to the roof!).
bus_factor@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Washers usually give better estimates than dryers. How long something takes to dry depends on the material used. The washer doesn’t care about anything but weight.
agressivelyPassive@feddit.de 2 months ago
You don’t really need an accurate timer. If it says 2:30, just set an alarm to 3h and you’ll be fine most of the time.
BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 2 months ago
My 30 year old, no electronics dryer takes consitent time.
tyler@programming.dev 2 months ago
Modern machines don’t display accurate cycle times at all. They use sensors to detect when to finish.
mundane@feddit.nu 2 months ago
Exactly, it’s just an estimate.
jabathekek@sopuli.xyz 2 months ago
Or even just knowing approximately how long the cycle goes for.
LordKitsuna@lemmy.world 2 months ago
I know so many people that will tell me that that is important to them. Those same people will hear the little jingle on their washing machine know that it’s done, and then not go move the laundry around for 3 hours
madsen@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Couldn’t you just program it to start (and stop) at a given time, or make a note of how long it says on the display that it’ll take?
It seems (to me) like a very, very minor improvement for a huge cost, namely that your washing machine is on your network and is internet connected.
agressivelyPassive@feddit.de 2 months ago
And I bet you it reduces reliability, because all those fancy electronics are absolutely crucial for it to work at all and brittle as a sand castle. So you’ll end up with a white brick if the wifi module craps out or a capacitor gets too warm.
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 2 months ago
Yeah.
Growing up, the washer and dryer were in the basement and you could really only hear that if you were in the living room with the TV off (so… never). But as an adult (who is finally living somewhere with its own washer/dryer…), I can hear that jingle throughout the entire house if I am not watching a loud movie at the time.
Growing up, we would more or less time it. Start a load and set the alarm on your watch for when it is done. But basically any modern washer/dryer is going to use fuzzy logic based on load weight and water levels and humidity and so forth. You can approximate how long it takes, but you don’t really have a proper timer. Which was annoyhing when my friends’ washer broke and they had to do loads at my place and it was always “Can you text us when it actually finishes?” or “So… I see you play Warframe. A lot… Uhm… It says there is five more minutes left”
So yeah. I can definitely see value in a networked washer or dryer depending on your living situation.
Also, while it is immensely wasteful (or a great way to get mildewy clothes), there is something to being able to start a dryer load when I pass the gas station about 20 minutes from home on a ski day. Because that would mean that I would have time to get home, take a really quick shower, and put on toasty warm clothes to compensate for having spent a few hours bouncing in the snow. And I would allow SO much spyware to enable that…
Empricorn@feddit.nl 2 months ago
An 1830’s egg timer already resolved this problem, Future Boy…
freebee@sh.itjust.works 2 months ago
It would be neat if it would then hang it to dry and when dry fold it and put it in the closet. It doesn’t so it isn’t. Its is just an old school jingle alert with extra (datatracking, most likely) steps.