“But Chrome is slightly more convenient! Why would I suffer tiny inconvenience today in order to save me from way greater inconvenience later? Who am I? Some reasonable person?” - typical Chrome user.
It is essential to stop using Chrome. Under the pretense of saving users from third-party spyware, Google is creating an ecosystem in which Chrome itself is the spyware.
Submitted 10 months ago by Live_Let_Live@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
https://mastodon.world/@dangillmor@mastodon.social/111717790641002919
Comments
ExLisper@linux.community 10 months ago
Sheeple@lemmy.world 10 months ago
As a former chrome user it’s so real. Chrome connects every device for you and once you ARE in the loop it’s hard to leave it. Wanna switch to Firefox? Oops suddenly your authentication doesn’t work anymore. Oh what about those useful Google logins tied to everything now? Good luck with that.
It took me huge effort to switch off chromium based browsers because the longer you use chrome, the more it worms it’s way into all your services making it harder and harder to switch. I still can’t figure out how to seperate my Yahoo account from my Gmail account.
ExLisper@linux.community 10 months ago
What you’re describing sounds more like over-reliance on Google services than the browser. I don’t use gmail or google logins anywhere, I just have Bitwarder plugin to manage my authentication and use masked emails to create accounts. I did the same in all the different browsers I used over the years and never had any issues with it or with switching between browsers.
hersh@literature.cafe 10 months ago
Firefox syncs across devices as well, if you sign up for a Firefox account and enable sync. This works for bookmarks, logins, history, and you can even access remote tabs if you want. It’s also easy to send a single page from one device to another.
On desktop, Firefox has an import feature that will pull your bookmarks and logins m other browsers (like Chrome) into your Firefox profile.
Even if you’re neck-deep in Google services, Chrome doesn’t do anything special.
Sanctus@lemmy.world 10 months ago
For me it was as easy as download > export bookmarks and passwords. Nothing broke. I even still use my google account to login to some services. It just brings up the google popup and I’m in.
Joelk111@lemmy.world 10 months ago
I didn’t have this experience at all. I switch browsers all the time just so I can know how they are, it’s painless every time. I’ve used non-chromium edge, chromium Edge, Brave, Chrome, Firefox, OperaGX, and probably something else. Chrome is probably my least favorite, as it just doesn’t have any bells and whistles.
TrickDacy@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Chrome connects every device for you
What? Besides debugging things on mobile devices, I’ve never sought to connect any device to chrome. Btw this exact same process works in FF too. You’re talking about chrome like it’s an operating system.
otp@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
what about those useful Google logins tied to everything now? Good luck with that.
What? You can still use your Google account without Chrome…
Unless you’re not talking about OAuth. Is it Chrome’s password manager? Because I’m pretty sure that’s easily exportable…
ripcord@lemmy.world 10 months ago
What authentication doesn’t work anymore in FF…?
AnxiousDater101@lemmy.world 10 months ago
AstralPath@lemmy.ca 10 months ago
We can’t forget that a lot of people have absolutely no idea that this is happening or what it means. Many folks just think the Chrome icon is how you access the internet and have no idea that there are other options. Helping to educate those folks is going to be a significant part of minimizing Chrome’s dominance.
Albbi@lemmy.ca 10 months ago
This comment is 20 years old if you replace the word Chrome with Internet Explorer.
AnxiousDater101@lemmy.world 10 months ago
LadyAutumn@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 months ago
Yeah, I’ll never use Chrome again. Google has always been shady, but this latest round of anti-features is unbelievable. I’m shocked there’s been no anti-trust suits related to what they’re doing with Chrome. Firefox is just a better browser with way more security options and extension support. That alone is enough for me to stick with it.
isVeryLoud@lemmy.ca 10 months ago
Regulators are blind to this, it’s too technical.
bigbadmoose@lemmy.world 10 months ago
And they are too rich and too old to know or care
LemmyIsFantastic@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Me, a foss contributer choosing edge because it’s a more convenient browser 🤷♂️
driveway@lemmy.zip 10 months ago
Security? No. Privacy? Of course (assuming you don’t use vanilla FF). Is it much easier to escape the sandbox in Gecko than Chromium. Doesn’t matter what options they give you in the settings titled “Security”.
unreasonabro@lemmy.world 10 months ago
lmao at the thought of mozilla suing microsoft. Basically no resources vs functionally infinite resources, they would stand no chance at all. I don’t know if you’ve noticed but our legal system is based on a variation of might vs right, we could call it rich vs bitch for convenience
shrugal@lemm.ee 10 months ago
I’ve been removing Google services from my life bit by bit over the last year, and I have to say it is crazy how hard it actually is! They have inserted themselves into so many digital workflows, securing monopoly positions and preventing the rise of competitors and open ecosystems. In many areas the only alternatives are other tech giants, or accepting feature downgrades and having to set things up manually.
slumberlust@lemmy.world 10 months ago
What lessons have you learned so far? I’ve switched to FF and DDG with great results, but still use Gmail/android/photos.
rekabis@lemmy.ca 10 months ago
You need to have effective replacements.
This is why Apple is so popular… much more thoroughly integrated, in many cases a better product, and for the most part paying more than just lip service to privacy.
About the only Google services I still use is the search engine (while it is still marginally useful), and Maps (since so many people on FB Marketplace also use it, so sending an address using a maps link is the ideal solution).
ikidd@lemmy.world 10 months ago
If Firefox goes away, I’ll use Epiphany or Konquerer before I subject myself to anything that makes me view ads.
TangledHyphae@lemmy.world 10 months ago
FF has way too much groundwork laid and way too much mindshare currently (given the rust language and all, the rust discord has 10k+ devs on it alone…) If, for some reason, thousands of devs just gave up on mozilla, more would continue the path and fork it most likely.
zingo@lemmy.ca 10 months ago
Well of course. Now all your traffic goes through proxies to Google’s servers for analytics.
100℅ data harvesting.
Genius move by Google. Even calls it a security/privacy measure!
Theharpyeagle@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Please don’t with this tech elitest stuff. Yeah, most people will continue to use chrome because they don’t really understand the gravity of what it means for their privacy, doesn’t mean we can’t do our best to help them out.
MystikIncarnate@lemmy.ca 10 months ago
You did so well until the last few sentences. Casually throwing everyone under the bus as idiots isn’t a great move.
To be blunt, there’s a lot of tech noobs out there that have always been, and will always be, fairly bad with technology. There’s an even larger number that can’t be bothered to pay attention or care about it. And finally, there’s the enthusiasts and the tech savvy, most of whom are working in a tech related field (or want to). Special shout out to the enthusiasts who don’t work in a tech field who are still quite savvy. But let’s face it, the enthusiasts and the tech savvy are a minority. We are not their targets. Fact is, even if you’re using Google’s various services or Chrome or whatever, the tech literate are at least aware of what’s happening, and a nontrivial number of them are here. Including you and I.
It then becomes our job to save others from themselves and get them away from the products looking to harm them. Throwing in the towel and calling everyone neaderthals isn’t the way to accomplish this. If we all do our part, we can save those we care about from becoming yet another battery in the machine, with all their data flowing through one company. It’s our duty.
For those that REALLY want to help, get involved in local politics and be the change. Help push regulation on the corporate shills that want it all. Whether that’s running for office, or contacting your local representative or whatever, it’s something that should be done. They shouldn’t be allowed to just implement, what is essentially mass surveillance on the world without someone doing something about it. That’s what the government is supposed to be there to do. I’ll reserve my comments about how effective they’ve been in the past or how corrupt the whole system is, because that will vary from country to country. But bluntly, you can be that change by getting involved.
As to the comments about the general idiocy of the population of earth, I say this: do you know it all? Well, neither do they. Nobody does. Can you fix your car and then turn around and frame a shed from scratch? Me neither. Can you perform experiments to discover new and exciting things in quantum physics, then build a toaster from raw materials? Me neither. Can you fix your plumbing, then create a program in Pascal that does your taxes for you? Me neither. Everyone has their skills, talents and expertise. Simply because there is a large percentage of people whose expertise is not tech, doesn’t, and shouldn’t, invalidate their intelligence as an individual.
Check yourself, or the next time you have a problem you don’t know how to fix, people might just throw in the towel on helping you.
narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee 10 months ago
My main problem is that I prefer other frontends to Firefox. I mostly use Vivaldi and think it’s great, but of course it’s Chromium based. I read somewhere that it’s just way easier to base a browser on Chrome than it is to base one on Firefox. It would be great if the frontend and backend were separated with a unified API and you could simply choose a frontend/interface (Vivaldi) with whatever backend/engine (Gecko). That’s not how it (currently) works though.
There are Firefox forks, but they’re just that: forks with slight modifications. Vivaldi and Arc are basically completely different browsers. Even Orion isn’t based on Gecko, it’s based on WebKit.
Add to that small compatibility issues with certain websites/web apps that aren’t Firefox’ fault, but rather developers targeting Chrome instead of “100 % web standards”. Still, as a user you’ll likely into (small) issues from time to time.
People saying “just use Firefox” have a very narrow view on how any of this works and I sometimes feel like it’s some form of elitism where the cool kids use Firefox and everybody using anything else are “lesser people”. In reality, people have different requirements and priorities. It’s similar to people posting “just use Linux” under every article talking about problems with Windows.
Yes, Chrome and Google sucks, I agree, but there isn’t a single universal solution to this problem.
deweydecibel@lemmy.world 10 months ago
People saying “just use Firefox” have a very narrow view on how any of this works
No, not at all. I understand perfectly. Your concerns are valid.
Our point is not supporting Chrome is more important in the long run.
There is no front end in the world that will make up for the loss of true ad blocking.
nixcamic@lemmy.world 10 months ago
What features does Vivaldi have that don’t exist in a FF extension?
And using a WebKit based browser is still better than using a chromium fork.
hersh@literature.cafe 10 months ago
It would be great if the frontend and backend were separated with a unified API and you could simply choose a frontend/interface (Vivaldi) with whatever backend/engine (Gecko). That’s not how it (currently) works though.
Arc has floated this idea. Currently Arc is Chromium-based, but they say they’ve designed it to allow for swapping engines in the future.
IIRC, Edge had a similar feature for a while, allowing you to run legacy Internet Explorer tabs if a site required it. Not sure if that still exists.
narc0tic_bird@lemm.ee 10 months ago
Let me add that support for passkeys is becoming more and more important and Firefox doesn’t support passkeys. Yes, it supports forms of WebAuthn (YubiKey and the likes), but not “scan this QR code with your smartphone and use biometric authentication to sign in”.
stealth_cookies@lemmy.ca 10 months ago
I tried really hard to use Floorp which fixes most of my problems with stock Firefox but even that just showed me how excellent Vivaldi is compared to other browsers.
flicker@lemmy.world 10 months ago
You admit in the opening of your comment that your issue is preference and then go on to say there’s no single universal solution.
There absolutely is a single universal solution. Either adapt your preference and use a different browser until you’re familiar enough with it to prefer it, or adapt your preference to admitting that you don’t care that Google is getting your data more than you care about being ever-so-slightly inconvenienced. It’s pretty simple.
thezeesystem@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Lots of people can’t just straight up ditch it. I have had multiple websites just don’t work with Firefox regardless of whatever add-ons I put. For me I just go into a Windows sandbox, but there’s people who are not that tech savvy and it’s often forced on them. Also iirc most schools have chrome books they let students use. So it’s basically forced onto people.
Suavevillain@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Firefox has always been great to use for me.
thejodie@programming.dev 10 months ago
I’ve used Firefox for years. It’s always been the underdog imo.
If it ever becomes the top dog, I’ll switch! To the next privacy underdog. More competition is good.
Resonosity@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Made the switch to Firefox last year. Love, love, love the freshness and versatility of the browser! Also add-ons for mobile!!!
spudwart@spudwart.com 10 months ago
We really need more browser engines floating around.
As of now we really only have 3, Webkit, Firefox, and Chromium.
Everything is based on these 3. And I know, technically chromium and firefox are both based on webkit, but they’re so far gone from webkit they function as their own engines.
Jaysyn@kbin.social 10 months ago
Way ahead of you. Been using Firefox since it was called Phoenix.
If I'm forced to use a Chrome browser, I use a deGoogled version of chromium. I can't think of the last time I've had to use it though. Firefox support is a priority for my company's IT dept.
_sideffect@lemmy.world 10 months ago
I’ve read so many bs paid-off articles recently how chrome is so much better than firefox, or firefox has nothing left to give to its users
jacktherippah@lemmy.world 10 months ago
I am going to be downvoted to hell for this but here we go. I use Mullvad Browser/LibreWolf on desktop but on Android I prefer Chromium. I was using Firefox until a couple months ago when I switched back to Vanadium/Cromite. Chromium on Android is very nice. First it has Material You support so it looks much better than Firefox. Second, it loads website faster and it scrolls buttery smooth unlike the noticeably choppier Firefox. Plus it has 120hz on the privacy preserving forks unlike Firefox which is stuck on 60hz with RFP on. Third, Chromium has per-site process isolation on Android so it has better security. I probably won’t be switching back until Firefox catches up on those fronts.
Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 months ago
I’ve been using Firefox since somewhere around 2008, it’s been a dream the whole time.
Highly recommended
cosmicrookie@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Chrome is the new reddit
notannpc@lemmy.world 10 months ago
I’m glad I’m in a position to basically never have to touch a chrome or chrome derivative for my work. It was a necessary evil to finally kill internet explorer, but these days it’s just hostile to its users.
FerbFletcher@reddthat.com 10 months ago
Ironically, in the past year, one of my employers specifically disallowed Firefox due to a CVE, saying that we were to use Chrome. A Cybersecurity professional once told me that Firefox is frowned upon because of CVEs.
oconnordaniel@infosec.pub 10 months ago
Tiny devils advocate, IF we can make it so ONLY Google can spy on us and
malwareadware can NOT spy on us would be an “improvement”. Google is a lot easier to target with regulation and stuff.That said, I wouldn’t touch Google with a 10 foot pole.
cybersandwich@lemmy.world 10 months ago
The number of tab crashes in Firefox is way higher than it ever should be. I still use it but it’s def not as stable as the chrome stuff.
Engywuck@lemm.ee 10 months ago
Let people use whatever they feel like, ffs.
unreasonabro@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Don’t Be Evil!
ToastedPlanet@lemmy.blahaj.zone 10 months ago
Thanks for the reminder. I’ve switched to Firefox on my mac and iphone for personal use. I just need to move some web development stuff around so I can switch to Firefox on that too. I may even uninstall google chrome, but for now I’ve just taken it off the task bar.
yamanii@lemmy.world 10 months ago
I came back to firefox after vivaldi and edge when google announced manifestv3, decided to do it already since they would at best delay it instead of canceling it, and that’s exactly what they did.
kbal@fedia.io 10 months ago
Yeah yeah, Mozilla pays its clueless CEO and other execs way too much, mismanages its finances in general, fired the wrong people, fell for the hype about AI, has a board full of former Facebook and Twitter execs, relies excessively on telemetry to justify their worst UI design decisions, and occasionally has delusions about someday becoming an ad platform.
If it weren't for all that we'd all be better off. But sometimes you gotta vote for the lesser evil, and at least they don't do all this shit.
EarMaster@lemmy.world 10 months ago
I have switched to Firefox but I’m having a hard time. Firefox feels sluggish compared to Chrome and uses an insane amount of memory. And I really miss tab groups as Chrome had them. There are some add-ons for Firefox that try to imitate this feature but none of them has everything I want (e.g. the ability to collapse a group in the top tab bar). And most of them build on top of Firefox tab groups which come with an isolation feature I don’t want (and haven’t found a way to disable for tab groups).
ktowner15@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Firefox main since 2020. Love it.
dacookingsenpai@lemme.discus.sh 10 months ago
While I agree on this, I think Ungoogled Chromium could be a soft way to degoogle yourself while maybe looking for complete replacements. It took me almost 2 weeks to degoogle me almost totally, at the beginning having a minimum of compatibility is nice
Jezebelley@kbin.melroy.org 10 months ago
Not using Chrome is so easy. I mean, Firefox is right there and is a better browser to boot. I genuinely have no idea why people still use Chrome for everything.
corus_kt@lemmy.world 10 months ago
I work at a small company - absolutely everything from work macros, accounts and shortcuts are all intertwined in Chrome, they’ve been using it like that for ten years - it’d be faster for me to find a new job then to unclog that mess from the entire office. I still installed firefox for personal use though.
kusivittula@sopuli.xyz 10 months ago
in my previous job we were allowed to install some old version of firefox through the companys own portal. but we couldn’t access internet with it because “firefox is vulnerable”. they use google suite so chrome was the default browser, but edge worked too and even IE…
Cheers@sh.itjust.works 10 months ago
I was in the same boat. Selenium with gecko driver was a pretty simple swap, just needed to Ctrl f replace a few things.
rizoid@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months ago
I keep going back and forth with Firefox and Vivaldi. The chrome based browsers just tend to run better. I love firefox on mobile but on desktop it’s tougher for me to stick with. Also Mozilla seems to have a different goal for the future with all the other products and ai weirdness they recently announced.
tsonfeir@lemm.ee 10 months ago
All chromium browsers are supporting Google’s grip on the internet.
Lodra@programming.dev 10 months ago
Serious question. Is it actually better for the typical user? I don’t mean people commenting here. I’m thinking about the majority that don’t care about privacy, blocking ads, quality technology, etc. for those people, I’m guessing that Firefox is equivalent. Just another browser that works fine. So why switch??
Fubarberry@sopuli.xyz 10 months ago
I run into compatibility issues and weird bugs with firefox a lot. I’m still using it as my primary browser, but I have to keep a chromium based browser ready for times when a website won’t work in firefox. I can put up with that personally, but I wouldn’t want to set up firefox on family/friend computers because I don’t want to get a call whenever something doesn’t work and they don’t know why.
Chrome based browsers also have some super useful features (like tab groups) that firefox doesn’t have a good alternative for.
diffcalculus@lemmy.world 10 months ago
For the overwhelming majority of users, they won’t know the difference between using the two. People here are on a high inhaling the air in this echo chamber.
I’ve used Chrome on every device imaginable since Chrome was a thing. I’ve had 0 problems, in all my years. I absolutely hate that Google shuts services down when they get bored. And I absolutely hate what they did with Google Music and Google Chats, and Domains.
I move off Google services when they shut down. Besides that, I’ve no problems with the ones I use (minus nitpicks and the above products).
So to anyone here feeling bad and are afraid to comment on here because they don’t want to lose Internet points, fret not. There are millions of us perfectly satisfied using Google, PAYING for their services where we see fit, and generally not worrying at all about any of this.
Live_Let_Live@lemmy.world 10 months ago
some small problems i face is that
while i use youtube it runs slower.
and the quick image search feature using google lens is not present.
and telegram voice call does not work.
TigrisMorte@kbin.social 10 months ago
Where as,
youtube = googlie
google lens = googlie
and
telegram via web requires chromium api, so = googlie
Hmm, proprietary things that are totally under the control of the corpo in question run slower or not at all on the corpo's competitor's browser. I wonder if that isn't exactly what avoid a monoculture is all about preventing?
themachine@lemm.ee 10 months ago
Ah yes, google nerfing its own services under another browser for its own gain definitely isn’t the issue here.
DePietPiraat@lemmy.world 10 months ago
You can use a different frontend for YouTube. You’ve got Freetube for pc, Yattee for MacOS and iOS and piped on any platform. These solutions also protect your privacy and block ads.
w2tpmf@lemmy.world 10 months ago
That’s because YouTube detects the browser you are using, and slows it down for browsers that aren’t their own.
gamermanh@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months ago
There’s an addon that not only adds that back into the right click menu but also adds support for other image searching services!
Its called “search by image” and it works very well ime
rottingleaf@lemmy.zip 10 months ago
You use TG in a browser?
leaskovski@kbin.social 10 months ago
To be fair, chromebooks are great devices for kids, and the family link platform makes keeping them "secure", easier... a lot easier!!!
Jezebelley@kbin.melroy.org 10 months ago
Actually that's a fair point. I totally forgot about Chromebooks.
danielf@aussie.zone 10 months ago
Even on Chromebooks you can install Firefox.
Scotty_Trees@lemmy.world [bot] 10 months ago
I once commented saying something like, except for work, all Linux users should be using Firefox. And this was the reply. Some people are just fucking hopeless:
“Firefox has only ever been a sometime back-up browser for me…ever since Chrome appeared in 2007. Prior to that, I used it because it was the sole usable alternative to Internet Exploder…
The Mozilla devs, for far too long, spent more time stabbing each other in the back than they did writing code and fixing the tons of problems that were always inherent in the code. It’s the only browser I’ve ever used that used to regularly crash & burn at least a dozen times a day. And ya wonder why people flocked to Chrome?”
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 10 months ago
But it’s true.
nadram@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Chrome is great at multi-user switching. FF in comparison is @$$ in that respect… I went back to FF around a month ago after a decade long hiatus.
obinice@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Okay I’m happy to switch, I used to use Firefox years ago until Chrome came along and it’s a great browser, but can I integrate my Google accounts with it?
I want it to sync all my stuff to my Google accounts, and so far I’ve not found another browser that can do this :-(
TrickDacy@lemmy.world 10 months ago
What do you want to integrate with your Google account? Imo that’s something to specifically avoid, not something to seek out. But I may be not understanding what you mean
ParetoOptimalDev@lemmy.today 10 months ago
Firefox sync will do the same without spying on you.
CatTrickery@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Firefox has Firefox Accounts which will do just the same. All those extensions are also available.
Johanno@feddit.de 10 months ago
All work on Firefox.
While you can’t use Google password-manager easily on Firefox (probably there is a plugin for that) the Firefox password-manager is better in my opinion.
The Google account stuff works mostly, but I don’t know what you exactly want to do. You should try it out.
anlumo@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Chrome’s developer tools are better, and having two browsers open at the same time while programming is a strain on RAM resources.
not_woody_shaw@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Have you checked recently? Chrome devtools have been getting steadily worse the last few years, and Firefox’s keeps getting better.
doppelgangmember@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Horses and water
Matriks404@lemmy.world 10 months ago
Firefox is better on desktop, but on mobile it still sucks, sometimes it is even refusing to load websites.
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 10 months ago
I used to use mozilla by Mozilla, too. THAT’s why.
dangblingus@lemmy.dbzer0.com 10 months ago
Because normies were using IE, then enough of them had their “tech enthusiast” grandson show them Chrome in 2010 and now that’s all they use.
people_are_cute@lemmy.sdf.org 10 months ago
No lie, I actually had to shift to Chrome from Firefox today. Some websites are straight-up broken on Firefox, while others load painfully slow (e.g. try arc.net on Firefox vs any Chromium-based browser). Not to mention the massive shame of Mozilla leadership treating its own flagship product as a second-class citizen in favour of “AI initiatives” or whatever the fuck those C-suites want to stud into their resumes.