This is Microsoft’s latest annoying addition to Windows.
linux mint people. youre not really using as much windows as you think
Submitted 1 year ago by stopthatgirl7@kbin.social to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.theverge.com/2023/11/8/23952878/microsoft-onedrive-windows-close-app-notification
This is Microsoft’s latest annoying addition to Windows.
linux mint people. youre not really using as much windows as you think
I do wish Linux was friendlier for the average person. I use it and I recommend it (via PopOS) to some people but other folk would have a heck of a time with maintaining it.
My elderly parents in their 60s use linux mint daily and have never had an issue with it (admittedly I did have to set it up for them still). The hardest part isn’t using an alternative OS like mint or pop, its getting an average person to figure out how to install it. Getting into your BIOS to boot into the installation drive, re-partitioning your harddrive to free up space for dual booting or nuking windows off all together, those are the hardest parts for any first timers IMO. After youve done it a dozen times its no problemo but the first time is nerve racking at least it was to me.
People say this but if you’re just using something like Linux Mint, it’s vastly simpler than Windows.
The search works.
All functions are done through graphical programs (terminal isn’t needed).
It’s laid out in the usual Windows UX, complete with a taskbar at the bottom, start button in the bottom left that opens a familiar menu, minimise, maximise, and close buttons in the top right of a window.
Apps are installed through an app store, rather than searching online, hoping you’ve downloaded the right installer, opening it, going through the installer, deleting the installer afterwards.
Auto updates can easily be enabled at first time setup, in the tutorial program that runs upon first boot.
A distro like Cinnamon is easier than Windows or MacOS. It doesn’t need to be made any simpler, it just needs to be available out of the box on more devices, because no average user will ever change their OS, even to an easier to use one.
what maintenance? most of the peeps i have using it blindly, are just automatically applying recommended updates.
linux is great for two types of people.. those that just need a browser or libreoffice and could use even a livecd or reset-on-reboot kiosk mode type se;tup that's been set up for them, and those that want to get their hands dirty.
for everyone else, it can really be a pain in the ass sometimes when something goes wrong. help is fragmented in even more ways than the distros themselves, and every third response is usually something along the lines of 'google it' ("i did, that's how i got here") or 'rtfm' ("what fucking manual?"--documentation is lacking for soooo many things) and then silence.
at least with windows you should already know going-in that 'backup and reinstall' is probably high-up at #3 on the list of things to try/do, after you search and scan a much larger pile of resources specific to windows and its (relatively few, by comparison) different versions.
If you have to hit the command line, it’s bad for most people.
You don’t really need commandline in linux anymore, unless your doing advanced stuff which means you should learn commandline anyway.
Which in almost all cases you never have to do, unless you go for like Arch or Gentoo or something, which nobody should do unless they know what they’re getting into.
If you installed something like Linux Mint, there’s no reason why you’d ever need to go into the terminal. It’s just an option for if you want to use it, like the command prompt, powershell, or registry in Windows.
I installed Linux mint on my Framework laptop because fuck windows.
I had to move back to windows, it didn’t feel ready and couldn’t get it working easily how I like.
Heres some of the issues(any pointers would be great)
Some stuff is better but a combination of these just brings me back to windows. It just loads and works?
I’m also on a Framework 13 with a 144Hz external. These problems do sound like some beginner-level issues you’d run into on a distro that runs behind in updates.
The only officially recommended distros by framework are Fedora and Ubuntu (although I’ve run a wide range and they’ve all worked). They have guides here for all sorts.
Issues 1 and 3, you need to use Wayland on KDE or a GNOME and both Wayland and the DE need to be up to date. This is an area where Linux is rapidly getting better.
Issue 2, should be adjustable in any DE settings panel. That’s a really strange one because I’ve never run into touchpad issues in my testing.
Issue 4, no idea. Logitech support is pretty good. Does this happen on all distro? I wonder if this is related to the touchpad issue.
Issue 5, they can be. It depends on your governor program. I strongly recommend setting up TLP. There’s some good guides out there in the FW forums. However, avoid disabling USB ports. For other governor solutions I’m sure there’s a config file laying around somewhere or perhaps it’s saving the last used setting.
Issue 5a, if the issue is fan noise. Check out fw-fanctrl.
Issue 6, this just has to be a mint thing. I’ve had fingerprint reading working on everything. My guess is that maybe they’re missing the fprint package or the UI/UX is rough. You can set up finger print reading from the terminal.
Issue 7, just select FDE on install if the installer offers it. Linux uses dm-crypt for FDE and it has baked in HWE. I would imagine other Linux encryption programs are hardware accelerated by default as well as support for it is part of the kernel. But I may be wrong about that.
All in all your experience of Linux is going to be very distro dependent and yes it may take some work and troubleshooting. But I think it mostly feels harder because it’s different from what you’re used to.
I run EndeavorOS and like that it’s all basic defaults because then I can build it into what I want. I highly recommend it once you become a little more used to Linux.
Don’t get me wrong. I use Linux extensively, but mostly server loads and gateways. But have used Mint and Rocky as desktops. So I can’t see how someone can reasonably argue that they have the same polish as Windows (or MacOS) for the average user. Too much command line, too many disparate tools without consistency, just to name a couple.
Linux has its place, but it is not for the average person yet. I wish it would get there, but for decades people have been saying this.
Just throwing more personal anecdotal story, I use Mint at home and Win10 at work. The amount of time something wonky happen at work, like Teams being Teams, or issues connecting to wifi, are much higher than at home.
The only time I've touch the command panel is when there's some obscure programs I wanna try out. I don't even know how to delete a file using the Command Panel without looking it up first.
Using Mint as an Internet machine, and even gaming in my case with Steam making it so much easier, I feel much less resistance with Mint compared to Win10. Win10 just hides everything away and I feel like I need to twist its arm just to maybe have it do things I want, and I just want to print something. Mint was literally just plug and print. Mint feels more like Win7 than Win10 ever did to me.
I personally enjoy knowing I can easily search for software I need, know it will run and install without issues and I won’t have to fuck around with poorly documented systems when something inevitably breaks.
Sure Windows pisses me off and sucks, but it’s still simpler to deal with.
it was somewhat controversial, but the mint people solved for this by including their own curated software manager (re:store) where you can search for (and install/uninstall) packages known to already work well with the distro.
most of my support calls are 'wheres that thing i can install apps with?'
Use a popular Linux distro and employ the app store (that, unlike Windows Store, actually relies on insanely rich repositories that have just about anything) - installing apps on Linux is simpler than on Windows.
As per support - 99% of all programs are either Linux-native or run just fine through Wine. Unless you have to work in field of engineering or employ Adobe software, you should be just fine
I wish but I have a Samsung notebook and the damn fingerprint reader won’t work on any Linux distribution.
uhg samsung. reminds me of sony... does sony still do laptops? they had the worst hardware driver support that ever existed.
I don’t think it is just your laptop. I’ve not been able to get the fingerprint reader to work properly on my Framework on Linux either. I think the support for them just sucks on Linux.
Biometrics are an end run around the fourth and fifth amendments.
I realized that I was holding my dual boot out of FUD. Was a relief when I went full Ubuntu.
On that note, mint does transparently allow you to use cloud resources like one drive (maybe not that specifically)
What?
After leaving Windows I actually still get stressed just reading about stuff like this.
but the OS remains hostile against user choice.
That’s just it. Most of us probably work on our computers – imagine if you were a carpenter and your tools actively fought you. It’s about literal quality of life for me at this point.
Why use Windows at that point?
My machine still has Windows 10, and ir can’t upgrade to Windows 11. The day they stop supporting Windows 10 is the day I’ll stop using Windows for good.
Kinda sad. I used to like to hate Windows, but I always knew that I could personally use it if needed. But ads? Telemetry? Non-installable software again? They crossed a line.
Personally I hate these tools with a passion as every single one I’ve seen goes overboard and disables potentially wanted features or straight up breaks stuff in its default configuration. It’s always fun to figure out what’s wrong with a machine only to eventually figure out that the owner used one of those tools a few months ago.
IMO people should either do these changes themselves or use another OS, though ultimately there needs to be legislation against this to help the non-technical people.
If you have to do stuff like that, it’s time the cut your losses and stop using windows.
So my conclusion is, you can’t disbale anything unless Microsoft allows you to, yes you can have a less annoying experience with one of the tools I mentioned above, but the OS remains hostile against user choice.
Whats funny there, is people that are forced (I assume that’s the only reason you’d run it) to run Windows hate that shit, while at the same time the Apple cult embraces have zero control of their devices. They know best after all…
I only use Windows at work (because I have to). The thing that drives me fucking nuts, as an advanced computer user in general, is how God damned unintuitive the Office,OneDrive, and File explorer integration is.
I have no idea where I am saving stuff half the time(or more accurately have to change it each time because the defaults are dumb). I don’t want it in my OneDrive downloads folder or OneDrive documents folder. I want it in my fucking laptop download folder or local documents folder.
Then Teams is saving stuff in SharePoint in the background, permissions are annoying AF. At least they’ll flag that a recipient of an email attachment or imbedded url doesn’t have access. So that’s nice I guess.
Oh, then sometimes I’m prompted to save a copy of a shared document, but that’s different from “download a copy”. If you save a copy it just makes a new shared copy for everyone in the SharePoint site.
I feel like a boomer when I work with MS now. Maybe it’s all enterprise settings for where I work and maybe it’s not MS’s fault but hot damn I am so much less productive than if I just used Gsuite, only office, on Mac or .
Maybe I just need to spend a week taking training classes on these products. But who tf has time for that when you have your actual job to do. So I guess that really sums up Microsoft for me: it’s in the way and slowing me down.
Was this at all necessary? You used a generic meme format to reiterate the point someone else made, and because there’s no “hide images in comments” setting yet, it’s just distracting and taking up space.
God damn do I want RES back.
It is not the settings of your enterprise, the file savings mess is 100% on Microsoft. Imo learning to work with it is pointless, since it will be entirely changed sometime in the future again when Microsoft again tries to trick more people into using these programs in order to boost their quarterly statistics.
saving stuff in SharePoint in the background, permissions are annoying AF
The nice thing about this is that it told me when bosses were snooping around files that I’d never shared with them. I got an automated email from Sharepoint asking to give them permissions.
Same. I was so annoyed with windows slow, useless search at work (I search for pdfs all day) I just wrote a Python program that does that job much, much better.
What you are saying heavily echoes my challenge as a govt employee who used Linux at home. Like why, when I select a folder to save something in, does it revert right back to the nebulous default one minute later? Unacceptable.
When saving a file in Word, Excel or whatever, the process looks some thing like this.
ctrl+s
“Save this file” dialogue appears, and it expects I want to dump everything into the root of OneDrive. Well, I don’t.
“Choose location” has some folders, none of which are what I want, because I tend to save my files pretty deep in the tree. Everything has a logical place, you know. I’m not one of those people who have a thousand files and 500 GB on the desktop. I like it neat and tidy.
Click “more options”. Now I can finally navigate to the specific folder I want. If you realize you actually need to create a new folder, this dialogue box isn’t for you. In order to do that, you need to go to “browse” where you’ll get the normal file dialogue box.
Can’t I just jump straight to the browse menu when I press ctrl+s? You know, like the way normal applications do it. Just try to save a file with Inkscape to see what I mean.
selects other
‘get fucked’
The only option anyone should select make their analytics useless.
If enough people did it, using a random method to select an option would also make the survey useless.
I believe the exact wording should be “Because fuck you, that’s why”.
That is the one single sentence I have ever entered into an “other” box.
This exact same thing happens when trying to cancel a subscription. Magellan TV wouldn’t let me continue to cancel my subscription until I selected a reason for the cancellation.
So I exited the process and contacted support with the message “your website will not let me cancel without providing a reason”.
They replied with “you can just select a reason and then it will allow you to continue”
To which I said “and where’s the option to cancel without you holding my account hostage until I do what you demand of me?”
They replied with confirmation that they’ve cancelled my subscription for me.
It seems petty, but no company should be allowed to forcibly extract additional info out of you when you want to cancel. They can ask all they like, but never force.
Here in Sweden you can cancel a subscription however you wish (as long as it’s within reason). You can send a company snail mail, email, go by their office, phone, text, whatever reasonably reaches them. They’re not allowed to pull the “Oh, buy you have to call [number which leads to an antichurn department]” or “please tell us why” (but of course they’re gonna try anyway. If it’s an online form you usually have a “I don’t want to disclose why”-reason).
You could tell them that your dog made you do it, then the ball is on their court to act crazy :D
Hey, Lemmy user in this thread: you’re likely in the top 0.1% expertise of all computer users worldwide.
This prompt is aimed at my boomer dad, who wouldn’t know what that funny icon is but read somewhere to close his apps for better speed. If his OneDrive docs disappear, I’ll get a call about it. At the same time, Microsoft probably can’t sell anything to my dad ever again, except his Office 365 subscription, so that makes him the product.
Microsoft is usually pretty good at letting tech users disable this kind of stuff with powershell commands or registry keys, which you already know how to do. And of course businesses join windows PCs to domains and disable this stuff centrally too.
Your stuff wouldn’t disappear if Microsoft didn’t keep stealing it and storing it on their servers, insteads of leaving it on your PC where it belongs.
This isn’t for your boomer dad, this is for Microsoft. You pay them for software, they steal your data. They’re literally worse than Facebook and Google now.
My parents are 60 years old and use mint daily. When my mom needs onedrive she just uses the web app through the internet browser. At this point its better for your boomer parents to move them to a OS where they aren’t a product and won’t fuck with their document files. the 99% of normal users only use their computers to boot into the internet browser, and every piece of software they use from banking to documents has a web-based front end or can be emulated with wine.
They wont mess with buisnesses because they have too much power to abandon their product in mass and are generally aligned with Microsoft’s productification practices. However, users “dont have any power”.
Microsoft doesnt want users to turn these settings off, devorcing your computer as much as they will allow makes a “your device is not set up” screen to appear at login. Its a lie (or gross redefinition of “set up”). I would argue that it is designed to trick users into turning those fetures back on.
If you run a program or follow a guide to turn off settings in the registry, they have in the past, changed them back. users often dont check every setting to make sure they havent changed in the night.
Microsoft actively disrespected (and mabe still does) the “open urls/links in this app” menu, they give you their sales pitch on edge when switching the prefrence, they overrode the setting to always be edge or they did the above settings tampering
Just always click other and give them no info. Other is the worst field for analysts who are trying to deal with survey results.
Exactly, give them more nothing to analyze.
No no no no nooo. That is like picking up your phone and telling your stalker that you will not talk to them. It only encourages them.
If you want to screw their analytics, choose Other and write something random in it.
All other fields go straight into meaningful numbers and it’s easy to automatically detect an empty Other and assign it to a generic category, but random text in Other has to be read and understood by a human to categorise (because said you can’t yet automate the detection of randomness or meaningless, whilst you can easilly enough automate things like detection of swear words to classify it into “pissed off user”.
On the other hand an empty Other is the simplest fastest way to just go over an unecessary barrier like that if you just want to get done with it and aren’t trying to make a point.
First with Chrome, now with OneDrive. What exactly are they trying to do with these “explanations” aside from annoying their user base?
I suppose they think they can gather more information on user habits and user interaction with onedrive to determine how to reduce user loss.
If so, they should pay for Q/A and/or focus testing themselves. Not freeload off from forcing users.
I can already see that this won’t gather them any data that is actually useful for analysis.
it’s barrier to exit
Guilt tripping.
if there's a 'fill in the blank' after choosing 'other'...... their 'ai' is going to melt from the responses.
I’m okay with this as long as one of the options is
“Because fuck you, that’s why.”
Reason🤲 Please specify: Nunya bidness
They’re training an internal AI on documents in OneDrive, I bet.
I feel like the EU needs to get on top of this
Especially infuriating is that I use OneDrive for work and I’ve got it running all the time but Microsoft decided I need another instance of it running, that I then have to close every time it decides to start up again. What?
The same URL now: Microsoft gives in and lets you close OneDrive on Windows without explaining yourself
Update November 10th, 4:45AM ET: Microsoft has removed the dialog forcing users to fill out a survey when quitting OneDrive, and reverted to the original prompt. In a statement sent to The Verge, Microsoft says:
This is the software giant equivalent of the Simpsons out of touch meme.
They’re frantically looking for why nobody likes them while they’re aggressively doing the thing that nobody likes them because of.
IMO, this is a bit like having a fellow student in your same grade in highschool who asked you out on the first day of class despite not really even knowing your name and when you declined, they asked you why every day for the entire year, and no matter what you said, they would still ask again tomorrow, because your answer never satisfied them.
Listen to me Microsoft, you have a few winners, like Windows, maybe office/365 for the business folks (though, formerly, it was exchange), and a few other gems. Don’t ruin the reputation you still have for making half decent operating systems by turning them into an ex that just won’t stop calling… IMO, this whole thing started when you axed MSN Messenger, and forcibly merged it into Skype, rather than bringing clever upgrades from the Skype codebase over to messenger. Everything went downhill from there. Even teams is still tainted by the Skype for business shenanigans that happened. You messed up. Stop irritating the clientele that you still have and give it a rest. Just make a good operating system, and focus on innovation. I haven’t seen any of that from you folks since the release of the NT kernel; it’s all been predictable iterative changes.
Back the hell off.
I know that this is just Microsoft trying get user feedback but because it’s Microsoft, it still seems bad. It’s just seems so disingenuous when a company like Microsoft, that usually ignores all user feedback, tries to get user feedback for a product that, if they actually listened to user feedback, they would already know that a majority of Windows users don’t want.
Does selecting Other
let you enter in some freetext? Because this is begging for some nastygrams.
It’s close to malware. I recently helped a friend with his Surface Pro; He had two instances of Onedrive as well as two of Teams running. One with his private Account and one with work & school. There just wasn’t an easy to find quit option for him anymore so everything was constantly running his battery dead and autostarting after rebooting.
Counterattack: Task Manager
this alone is going to push me away from using it. I’m very petty like that. anyone have good alternatives?
Select other. Paste in Ulysses. Submit.
Did you order the program to close?
You’re goddamn right I did!
Shit. I really I hope “fuck you, I do what I want.” is an option?
It really blows my mind that somehow most popular services/software is at state worse than 10-15 years ago, what the fuck happened? This shit is what is making me move to other interests/hobbies than technology-related stuff.
USER: powershell script to force close OneDrive, without on screen popups for any reason.
CoPilot: Sure, here’s a simple PowerShell script that can be used to force close OneDrive without any on-screen popups:
# Get the process id of OneDrive $OneDrivePID = (Get-Process -Name "OneDrive").Id # Force stop the OneDrive process Stop-Process -Id $OneDrivePID -Force
This script first retrieves the process ID of OneDrive and then uses the
Stop-Process
cmdlet to forcefully stop it. Please note that forcefully stopping a process might cause data loss or corruption, so use this script with caution.
Also, running scripts in PowerShell might require administrative privileges. If you encounter any issues, try running PowerShell as an administrator.
Disclaimer: This script is provided as is, without warranty of any kind. Use of this script is at your own risk and responsibility. Microsoft assumes no responsibility for any damage or loss caused by the use or misuse of this script. Always ensure you have a backup of your data.
USER: Powershell command to write the above script to a new batch file on current windows user’s desktop, Titled “OneDriveBEGONE.bat”
Copilot: Sure, here’s a PowerShell command that writes the script to a new batch file on the current Windows user’s desktop, titled “OneDriveBEGONE.bat”:
# Define the script content $scriptContent = @" @echo off powershell -Command "& {Get-Process -Name 'OneDrive' | Stop-Process -Force}" "@ # Get the path to the current user's desktop $desktopPath = [Environment]::GetFolderPath("Desktop") # Define the full path for the new batch file $batchFilePath = Join-Path -Path $desktopPath -ChildPath "OneDriveBEGONE.bat" # Write the script content to the new batch file $scriptContent | Out-File -FilePath $batchFilePath
This script first defines the content of the batch file, which is a command to force stop the OneDrive process. It then gets the path to the current user’s desktop and defines the full path for the new batch file. Finally, it writes the script content to the new batch file.
Please note that running scripts in PowerShell might require administrative privileges. If you encounter any issues, try running PowerShell as an administrator.
Disclaimer: This script is provided as is, without warranty of any kind. Use of this script is at your own risk and responsibility. Microsoft assumes no responsibility for any damage or loss caused by the use or misuse of this script. Always ensure you have a backup of your data.
I have Windows 10, so things may be different for 11 or whatever version you’re on, but can’t you just uninstall OneDrive without specifically closing it? I feel like that’s what I did when it was default installed.
Thank god I switched to Linux on my Desktop. And I also have a Macbook and I love it. I guess I consider myself a Unix guy.
I recently bought a new computer (left the old one in my car by mistake, and the outdoor heat caused the plastic casing to expand) and moved all my old files over to the new one. Somehow, it ended up sticking a bunch of my files (Desktop, Documents, etc.) in my OneDrive (which was setup without any confirmation that I’d like to use it). I had to create a brand new profile that wasn’t linked to a Microsoft account on my brand new computer and move everything over just to fix the issue.
PrincessLeiasCat@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
The enshittification will continue until morale improves.
ebits21@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
Or until you give up on the bullshit and just install Linux already (me 5 years ago).
jack@monero.town 1 year ago
Yes, morale of the users. The corpos morale will never change
yournamehere@lemm.ee 1 year ago
and you think ppl will? naah ppl will use safari, iphone, insta, google search etc. and downvote you for daring to just mention problems with said corpos.