[deleted]
Pull yourself up by your parent’s bootstraps
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Submitted 1 year ago by Aboel3z@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
Comments
eddietrax@dmv.social 1 year ago
isles@lemmy.world 1 year ago
You commented this, presumably, derisively, however this is exactly how it works for everyone. You use your parents to help pull yourself up. This is not a flaw or a failing, is it?
The reason “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” is absurd is because of its physical impossibility.
neptune@dmv.social 1 year ago
The issue is some parents have more resources than others. If you, your family, and everyone you know is poor, what bootstraps?
Yes bootstraps are physically impossible, but I he point still remains. Parents are not made equal.
db2@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
Don’t forget the ones that are bad at it, like Musk and Trump.
FaceDeer@kbin.social 1 year ago
I'm not sure how you consider Musk "bad" at it. He got $28,000 in funding from his father for his first company, peaked at $320 billion net worth, and is only down to about $138 billion according to the last info my quick Googling dug up.
$28,000 is really not all that big a "seed fund". Lots of entrepreneurs start with more.
Conyak@lemmy.tf 1 year ago
His dad literally paid for everything when he moved to America. It’s easy to start a business when your education is fully paid for and there is literally no financial risk at all. Acting like he was self made is fucking ridiculous.
ZeroCool@feddit.ch 1 year ago
db2@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
Where’d you get the idea he only got 28 thousand? That’s a car. Not even a luxury car. Is that the lie he claims is reality? He’s a spoiled rich brat gem mine kid who grew old but not up.
Croquette@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Let’s say he really only had a 28 000$ loan (which I doubt), he could still fail monumentally and not be destitute.
Then, when your parents are filthy rich, they usually have a lot of influencial people in their network.
If he really only had 28k in a vacuum, maybe that would be a different story. But he had the backing of the gem mine money + the network of his parents.
Let’s take Bill Gates. When he grew up, he went to a school that had a computer, that he was able to use. It is a big fucking deal at that time. Very few schools had computers, much less gave access to their students.
brambledog@lemmy.today 1 year ago
So a man whose wealth has largely been built off lying to investors and consumers about his products told you that his father only gave him $28,000, and you just believed him?
Gekoloniseerd@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Image being such a dumb ass stupid motherfucker that you think and type this in the www. We’re doomed.
Neato@kbin.social 1 year ago
It's a small thing but he also had family connections in Canada which he lent on.
state_electrician@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
But still you’ll never get it right
'Cause when you’re laid in bed at night
Watching roaches climb the wall
If you called your dad he could stop it all, yeah
You take different risks when you have a cushy safety net.
GeneralVincent@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It really was mostly luck and lying. I guess those are important to being a successful businessman, so you’re right and so is everyone saying he’s just a lucky rich butthead.
chakan2@lemmy.world 1 year ago
A years salary in minimum wage isn’t that big of a seed fund…
Just to put that in perspective.
NightOwl@lemmy.one 1 year ago
Having rich family versus none provides a safety net that lessens the consequences of risk taking, and sets a baseline of how bad your life can get.
It’s like playing a game with check points versus one that has you start at the beginning if you die. You still have to do all the hard work to reach your goal yourself, but those retro style non check point games are incredibly hard compared to games with check points, saves, or cheating with save states.
Neato@kbin.social 1 year ago
By hard work, you mean buying yourself exclusive education which gets you contacts to add to your families. Not to mention ready access to startup capital and the graces of people willing to give you more.
NightOwl@lemmy.one 1 year ago
Preorder bonuses and microtransaction purchases that provide xp boosts and items that make the game easier.
scarabic@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Yes a lot of people never even try their venture because they cannot afford the risk. In my wife’s family, for example, an early and bad business venture by her father nearly bankrupted the family, and created a fissure between the parents when the mother felt he’d risked their well being. To this day they aren’t over it.
By contrast, take my old coworker who married into wealth, had a baby, and then launched a startup. He knew damn well his kid would be okay thanks to Grandma and Grandaddy Warbucks. He pissed away three years and then gave it up. A lot of guys in his situation would have been sweating some job just to keep their family afloat. And his failed business was called a brace adventure and learning experience. No family fissure there.
danielfgom@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Yea indeed. This is very important to remember. Without financial backing and connections, most businesses don’t go very far.
I think we should shatter these “started in the garage” myths as they do in this article. The average family doesn’t earn enough to give their kids a good enough education or finance their dreams.
Hence most people end up doing some or other job they loath, for the rest of their lives.
dangblingus@lemmy.world 1 year ago
These days especially, aint nobody inventing a new kind of personal computer in their garage. I liken it to the days of when bands would mail out demo tapes to anyone they could find a mailing address for. These days, that’s one of the quickest ways to have your shit tossed in the trash.
Sanctus@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Yep, if I was rich I’d already be a professional game dev. Since I’m not I work IT and dev at night. Its obvious, rich people can take risks cause they’re rich. Which means they end up deciding what gets made for the most part.
AngryPancake@lemmy.world 1 year ago
And they can just focus on the things that are important. For a lot of people, a job is just a means to an end, to finance hobbies or side projects. But at the end of the day I’m already exhausted to do any of the fun stuff.
TootSweet@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Right wingers suck, you know?
I was hating Bill Gates long before the conspiracy people decided Bill Gates was putting 5G nanobots in vaccines.
Now I have to defend the guy against accusations of making people magnetic or WTF ever while hating on him for ruining software and opposing social wellfare programs.
rckclmbr@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Lol Zucks dad was a dentist, and his mom was a psychiatrist. Yes they were more wealthy than a majority of Americans, but I wouldn’t call them an inaccessible “wealthy” like Musk or Trump. They were living a comfortable middle class lifestyle.
TotallynotJessica@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Both those jobs require PHDs, something only 2% of Americans ever get. It would be inaccurate to claim that there’s only a 1% chance of both your parents being doctors, but it is more exclusive than 1 doctor. They were definitely millionaires by the time he was an adult, and could probably afford excellent education for him since birth. The key thing is that closer you start to the bottom, the harder it is to become ultra wealthy.
rckclmbr@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I agree with your last sentence. But I was just pointing out that it’s a far cry for Zucks situation (good education, stable home) vs Trumps (here’s hundreds of millions of dollars, do whatever you want)
Eylrid@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Similar thing with Jeff Bezos. His mom was a single teenage mother who went to night school to graduate highschool. His bio dad bailed. His stepdad was a young immigrant. They gave him $300,000 to start Amazon, but they worked their way up to the point where they could do it.
phillaholic@lemm.ee 1 year ago
How did a Single mother who had to get her GED have the equivalent of $620,000?
Mamertine@lemmy.world 1 year ago
cnbc.com/…/mark-zuckerbergs-dad-offered-him-colle…
His parents offered to buy him a business so he could just collect a check instead of going to Harvard.
I’m the same age as him and I came from a well to do upper middle class background. My parents could not afford to buy me a million dollar business for me to run. I had fairly rich friends. None of their parents made them offers like that.
MathiasTCK@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Zuck leveraged his college connections pretty hard
masquenox@lemmy.world 1 year ago
If you buy into the myth of the “self-made” billionaire you might just as well buy into the idea of magic glass slippers granting you royalty.
hdgdlfiuebdtus@feddit.de 1 year ago
Where can i get these slippers?
masquenox@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I still happen to have one left… it’s yours for $10, 000 - you only need one after all.
blackstampede@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Honestly, I don’t think it’s just money. It’s a baseline of support that means you never have to worry about your kids eating or having new clothes, coupled with a vast social network. That network is made up of friends, coworkers, people who went to the same school as you, your parents friends and coworkers, your extended family, and just random-ass acquaintances who go to the same fucking gelato place as you.
I’m a good software developer- I interview well, have broad experience, and pick things up quickly. I’ve repeatedly leveraged my contacts from school, their contacts, and even people I’ve dated in the same industry - to get jobs and opportunities that my family couldn’t provide because they’re desperately poor. It’s absurd how many opportunities I’ve gotten that way. I’ve seen equally talented developers grind along in shit jobs because when they look for work they do it by applying to hundreds of openings on indeed or wherever instead of hitting up all they current and past acquaintances and asking if anyone is looking.
abraxas@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Pretty much this. I have made contacts over the years and “done well” for myself. But never well enough to start a wealth avalanche of any kind.
But properly positioned, I can make a company $20m/yr (as can any solid developer with a little innovativeness). If I knew the right people, I’d be seeing a noticeable percent of that instead of just my “cog in the wheel” salary. But also, it’s a matter of the roles. I’ve worked some roles where I don’t make a company that kind of money. Not because of a skill gap. It was just a different dev job.
If I had a rich dad with the right friends, I’d be wealthy (probably making them richer). It took me over 10 years in the field to become management, but I’ve worked for execs that were “just hired that way” in their 20’s, with no better credentials than I had, but a different last name. Even if I do spectacularly, I’ll still be 15 years behind them with less of a safety net and less leverage.
KeenFlame@feddit.nu 1 year ago
That “You interview well” is your primary skill tells me everything I need to know about how really good you are vs just gaming the ladder
blackstampede@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
I didn’t say that it was my primary skill, I mentioned it as a factor. If you have some bias against a worker learning how to communicate clearly and present themselves well to stand out in an interview and get a higher paying job, then you’re an idiot.
AdmiralShat@programming.dev 1 year ago
Self made is a fallacy regardless of background.
Money requires a society to operate, and business requires customers and they require hard work from many people. It’s a huge group effort from every direction.
the_q@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Except at the very top. That requires no real work… unless putting a boot on the real workers neck counts as “work”.
KevonLooney@lemm.ee 1 year ago
It does require work. Most businesses have competitors. Most billionaires are extremely competitive people because it takes a lot of effort and luck to get to the top.
Does it contribute to society? No, not really. But it does require a lot of work. Look at the difference between old money and new money families.
Old money families are the ones that don’t work, because they are just normal people with a ton of money. New money families had to work really hard and be really lucky. They literally don’t know how to slow down and relax.
At a minimum, we need stronger regulations, higher wages, and higher corporate taxes to make these people and their money work for us.
rchive@lemm.ee 1 year ago
I don’t think anyone means literally one person did all the work when they say “self made.” Also, you as an individual pay for most of the things you get from the rest of society. You’re still earning it, more or less.
AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Billionaires? No, but there are self made millionaires, they’re just considered lower middle class these days. Anyone of a certain age could drop out of highschool, get an apprenticeship with a plumber, electrician, carpenter, etc. and end up with 1-2 million to retire on. Doctors and lawyers routinely save up 5-10 million. It’s when you’re doing significantly better than that, that you absolutely have to have had significant support and luck.
I’m not sure that scenario plays out for the majority of people anymore because the COL has gone out of control, while wages are in the shitter. That’s why I work for myself.
cricket98@lemmy.world 1 year ago
since when are millionaires considered “lower middle class”
CosmicCleric@lemmy.world 1 year ago
In different States in the US you need a whole lot more money to retire on than in other States.
Takumidesh@lemmy.world 1 year ago
1 million dollars would only support a family of four living a lifestyle equivalent to the poverty line for 16 years. Sure that’s a long time, but that’s not forever, it’s not generational wealth and it’s not a luxurious lifestyle.
This example of course is if they don’t work, but that’s kind of the point. A household with a million dollars in the bank doesn’t just mean they can retire and live off of that forever, unless they are old, in which case they worked all of their life to have that money and are only retiring in old age.
There is a huge difference between someone who saved $1 million through retirement plans over their working life and someone with a $50 million dollar trust.
The first case is absolutely lower middle class. You need more than a million dollars if you want to retire at 55 for example and have an annual retirement income of 50k.
If you create a 401k when you are 18 making 15k a year, putting 10% each month and expecting a modest 4% return And an annual salary increase averaged out to 3% (putting you just under 100k salary by the end of your working career in your 60s) you will have over a million in your retirement fund by the time you retire, that’s with no employer match.
If you are slightly more successful, and manage an averaged out 5% annual salary increase (remember average, sometimes you might jump up higher, and some years you may not get any salary increase) you will end up with 2.5 million.
I wouldn’t consider someone who worked their entire life, saved what they could, got some pay raises from things like getting degrees and promotions, and finishing their career with a salary around $100k to be anything but middle class.
Blackmist@feddit.uk 1 year ago
A “self made millionaire” these days can be somebody who bought a cheap inner city house in the 70s and now it’s worth over a million though nothing more than being in the right place.
Doesn’t mean they have a luxury lifestyle, but they could always sell up and move somewhere cheaper.
Spitzspot@lemmings.world 1 year ago
*billionaire
grue@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Yeah, “millionaire” just means “having $40k/year to spend in retirement.” Nowadays, literally every American should become a millionaire by the time they retire.
snooggums@kbin.social 1 year ago
"Self-made millionaire" is not referring to people who have a solid retirement based on investments. It is referring to people who started a business and became rich early in their career.
UnrepententProcrastinator@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
There are rag to riches story but the billionaire club usually requires a richer start.
KeenFlame@feddit.nu 1 year ago
People assume it’s that the parents buy good schools and bribe etc.
But I think it’s actually mostly the powerful privilege confidence that you get from having that safety net.
They can try and fail so many times. Some have, too. Like Trump who failed mostly his entire life and is still a mogul.
It’s the feeling these people have got that they have right to command and tell people what to do and not be afraid of consequences
misophist@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Like the old carnival game metaphor about entrepreneurship.
Mamertine@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I’ve never heard that. That’s a really good metaphor!
KeenFlame@feddit.nu 1 year ago
That was very succinct
LoamImprovement@ttrpg.network 1 year ago
Having all the existing connections probably doesn’t hurt either. If your daddy already knows the people who will make your budding enterprise a success, you have a lot lower chance of missing that dart toss. Not zero, but it’s like getting to take three big steps over the line.
ExLisper@linux.community 1 year ago
What about Elon? I’m sure he’s just a poor boy from a poor family Galileo Galileo Figaro.
PatFussy@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Mark cuban didnt grow up rich…
June@lemm.ee 1 year ago
There’s always an exception to the rule.
huge_clock@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Howard Schulz grew up in a Brooklyn Housing project, George Soros survived the holocaust survived college waiting tables, David Murdock of Dole Foods was homeless. There’s tons of examples.
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
At least Bill Gates’ parents weren’t SUPER loaded, and his dad at least put in some work to earn it, going to college using a GI bill after fighting in the Army for 3 years during World War II. His mom was a school teacher.
CaptnNMorgan@reddthat.com 1 year ago
I thought she owned IBM or something, is that a joke?
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 1 year ago
She was friends with a company?
Bruncvik@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Having worked in business incubation at a research university, helping researchers find angel investors, I’d like to throw in my two cents:
First of all, the article runs headlong into survivorship bias. For each Bezos or Gates, there are thousands of entrepreneurs with financial backing that went bust. And the vast majority of those who didn’t were acquired by larger, established companies before they could even hit the news (in my area, the ideal exit strategy was said to be acquired by Cisco, rather than an IPO). Many of these startups had even more initial backing by the three f’s (family, friends and fools).
Now, let’s look at those who didn’t have financial backing. For such people, there are angel investors. As others in this thread pointed out, one needs to have good connections to find such investors. Good connections are available in most, if not all, research universities, via their business incubators. Universities, however, will retain part ownership of the company (licensing any research or technology back to the entrepreneur), and they are still thinking in the medium term. They are not looking for unicorns, but a steady stream of revenue, so their preferred exit strategy is indeed the acquisition. I’m certain that the very few poorer entrepreneurs who’d strike it rich in IPO were pressured into selling their company. That’s why you don’t see any examples of a company truly being pulled out of nothing. And don’t get me even started at the wasted opportunities where the professor didn’t sign the research licensing papers because he’d make a comfortable living keeping the research at the university…
Point of this is that it will be statistically likely that we’ll get a few super-rich entrepreneurs, and they’ll come mainly from backgrounds where they could secure seed financing. That does not mean they didn’t work very hard with the money they were given.
Goronmon@lemmy.world 1 year ago
That does not mean they didn’t work very hard with the money they were given.
The point isn’t that you don’t need to work hard to become successful. It’s that success tends to favor those who come from privileged backgrounds, especially when that privilege is already being wealthy.
You seem to have read the article as “Being wealthy ensures success” when instead the point is “Becoming ultra-wealthy and/or successful starts with being wealthy and successful.”
the_q@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Explain what you and billionaires consider hard work.
ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world 1 year ago
the ideal exit strategy was said to be acquired by Cisco
My company was acquired by Cisco … and within six months everyone from the original company had been laid off.
Bruncvik@lemmy.world 1 year ago
That was pretty normal. But the angel and venture investors walked away with money. And if the founders were smart or assertive enough, they also made enough money to start a new venture, possibly with less external seed funding.
msbeta1421@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I encourage everyone to read Outliers by Malcolm Gladwell.
Excellent book that covers this topic with examples ranging from successful businessmen to why most professional Canadian Hockey players are born around the same time of year.
turmacar@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Outliers needs to be taken with some salt. A lot of his examples seem to either be restatements of well known bits of sociology or fall apart when anyone with a relevant interest/specialty looks at them.
My personal ‘favorite’ is his use of 7 airline crashes to claim that Koreans are “culturally” predisposed to crashing airliners. 2 of the crashes happened because of Soviet missiles, another happened because of a bomb on the plane, and crew culture was not a significant factor in any of the official accident reports for the rest. This was also his conclusion from 7 incidents.
It honestly sucks because “do more authoritarian cultures have more problems with crew culture” is actually an interesting question. You could contrast German flight crews and Australian flight crews maybe. Or contrast anyone really, instead of looking at 7 incidents and concluding it was because they’re Korean.
msbeta1421@lemmy.world 1 year ago
That’s interesting, thanks for bringing that up! Just goes to show that there are always multiple sides and layers to every issue.
TheBeege@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Haven’t read outliers, but I live in Korea. Weak people in authority here is a serious problem. See the Sewol ferry incident: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sinking_of_MV_Sewol
The culture of saving face and not causing disturbance compounds the problem. For example, some married couples prefer to not know if their partner is cheating so as to not disturb the peace of the family. Fortunately, this is becoming more rare, but it is still an issue.
NotSoCoolWhip@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Ooh. Just read the first chapter as a free trial. Gonna hit up the library tomorrow!
scorpious@lemmy.world 1 year ago
“Billionaire,” please…millionaires are a dime a dozen these days, many of them truly “self-made” and from poor backgrounds.
Synthead@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Behind Every Self-Made Millionaire is a Father with Money
Well that’s just not factually correct
ThisIsMyLemmyLogin@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Rich daddy = bootstraps.
fosforus@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
So… we should have more millionaire parents?
phillaholic@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Steve Jobs, Larry Ellison, and Jan Koum all didn’t so this is a bit cherry picked.
Kodemystic@lemmy.kodemystic.dev 1 year ago
There’s some who came from nothing back in the day, ex: Andrew Carnegie. But times are different now I guess.
heygooberman@lemmy.today 1 year ago
And behind that father is a woman. Behind her is his wife. 🤪
reksas@sopuli.xyz 1 year ago
I wonder how much research has gone to how billionaire families in general have acquired their money. If for example, some have made their initial fortune with slave trade, is it really ok even though current ones arent at least overtly doing it?
These are the people who hold actual and real power over our entire world, whether we agree or want that, so their entire family’s values are pretty important to us all.
Nintendo@lemmy.world 1 year ago
this thread makes me realize even lemmy users are far up billionaires assholes
squiblet@kbin.social 1 year ago
In this niche art field I was in, the most successful people either grew/sold weed or had wealthy parents. Makes a huge difference when both your parents are doctors and can just buy you a $50,000 studio, and you don't have to worry about making smaller work or having a sustainable business for years and are free to experiment and think big.
grue@lemmy.world 1 year ago
…And when your rich parents have connections to other rich people who might want your art.
snooggums@kbin.social 1 year ago
Important since art is just a way to move money around.