[deleted]

Comments

• Nawor3565@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  “Soy boy” is commonly used by MAGAs as a derogatory term to mean a feminine man. There was some rumor about how soy could mimic estrogen in the body (not really true) and so they believe that eating soy products makes men feminine. This is obviously bullshit, but maybe it’s somehow spiraled from “real men shouldn’t eat soy” into “no one should eat soy”

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  • jeffw@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    There are phytoestrogens in soy. Know what has even more than tofu? Beer. Remind them that when they use the term “soy boy” and ask if they’re feminine enough to drink beer

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    • MuThyme@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      The best part is that phytoestrogen does next to nothing to humans, you need mammalian estrogen instead. You know where you find lots of that? Cows milk

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  • PM_Your_Nudes_Please@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Yup, it’s a conservative talking point. It was originally a rebellion against vegetarianism/veganism/etc and all of the meat alternatives. Lots of “they’re trying to take away our meat because they hate America and nothing is more American than eating steak and burgers” type of rhetoric. The soy-based alternatives were an easy target for conservatives to rile up their readers, because the vast majority of vegans are progressives.

    Then conspiracy theorists took that and ran with it. There is a strong correlation between conspiracy theorists and conservatives. It’s not an “every conspiracy theorist is conservative” situation, but the correlation is very strong. So conspiracy theorists will tend to mirror conservative talking points, then take it a step further by injecting the conspiracy theorist side of things into it. The “they’re trying to take away our beef because they hate god” talking points quickly morphed into “they’re trying to force soy on us to make us more liberal.”

    And in the conservative’s mind, when they think of liberals, they think of blue hair, crying about pronouns, and effeminate men. So naturally, that’s where the conspiracy theorists ran with it. The “they’re using soy to turn us liberal” suddenly turned into “they’re using soy to turn us effeminate.”

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    • SoleInvictus@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I’m going to go out on a limb here and suggest the commonality been conservatives and conspiracy theorists is poor critical thinking skills.

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  • blackbelt352@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I’d wager its also got a lot to do with how prevalent soy is used in various Asian cuisines, so like anything even remotely tangentially related to China is also a commie plot to take over The West™

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    • theamigan@lemmy.dynatron.me ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Just tell them how many Good White Americans™ living in flyover country make a living farming soybeans and watch their head explode.

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    • number6@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      This itself is a conspiracy theory. I’ve known a lot of right-wing people, and none of them made a connection between Soy and Asian cuisine. They don’t like tofu, in particular, because they didn’t grow up with it and see it as some weird, hippy thing.

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  • voidhearts@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    [deleted]

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    • Lando_@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      [deleted]

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  • thismessisaplace@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Wait until MAGA’s fund out what military burgers are made of…

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• Heavybell@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Here’s my (fallible) understanding of the nugget of truth behind the soy nonsense.

  Plants contain something called phytoestrogen. It has a similar shape and function in plants to estrogen in humans. Soy contains a lot of it.

  However, since it is made of different chemicals to estrogen it does not act like estrogen in humans.

  Still, because it has the word “estrogen” in it, a lot of idiots think it will cause you to become weak and grow tits if you eat soy. You know, like a woman. Hence the “soyboy” memes and the use of the term as an insult, mostly by woman-hating alt-right goons.

  It’s possible your friend is covertly falling for the fallacy, or perhaps their concern is several times removed; i.e. they fell for someone’s lie based on a lie based on a lie based on bigotry.

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  • lustyargonian@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Fun fact, dairy milk actually contains proper estrogen, like all the lactations of mamals.

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    • peanut_boy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      So you really expect me to believe a lactating woman produces hormones?

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  • angrystego@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    This is more complicated, as is often the case. The phytoestrogen in soy does have similar effects on people as human estrogen, and the effects can be rather positive (regulation of weight and better insuline sensitivity). Source here.

    The same review mentions potencial negative effects and concerns: “In adult male rats, exposure to dietary soy decreased androgen levels and prostate weight.” and “In humans, the use of soy or purified phytoestrogens in women at high risk of, or diagnosed with, breast cancer as well as in infants fed with soy-based formula are legitimate areas of concern.”

    Both beneficial and adverse effects of soy seem to be understudied. For more information about soy phytoestrogens and both male and female fertility, check out this article.

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    • redballooon@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      use of soy or purified phytoestrogens

      What now? Soy or purified phytoestrogens?

      Sentences constructed like that can easily be weaponized.

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    • escaped_cruzader@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      This is more complicated, as is often the case

      Impossible, @Heavybell assured my it’s a conspiracy theory peddled by woman-hating alt-right goons

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  • JonEFive@midwest.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    This was going to be my guess too. I’ve heard the “soy contains estrogen and can screw up your body if you eat too much.” nonsense.

    I hate when people say stuff like that as they drink their 4th can of Coca-Cola of the day.

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  • RoryButlerMusic@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I got told to be careful of soy milk once by a conspiracy theorist buddy. Said it’ll turn me into a woman.

    Hundred percent this conspiracy theory has bigoted roots.

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  • redballooon@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Mix that together with that soy often is involved in meat replacements for vegans, and the alt-right idea that eating meat is manly, preferably while mixed with beer and cigarettes.

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  • scarabic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    The first time I saw headlines on the internet about this, I wasn’t sure what to think. I was hanging out with a friend and I saw him put soy milk in his coffee. I asked him if he’d seen the news about estrogen. He hadn’t. I related it as best I could, and he listened, giving me some pretty skeptical side eye.

    I closed with “I dunno, if it’s something you put in your body every single day it might be worth finding out more. Before, you know…”

    “IT WORKS JUST FINE,” he said, and that was the end of that conversation!

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    • Heavybell@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I mean, you’re not wrong. And someone else replying suggested maybe soy does have some effect. However I feel like the MtF trans community would be up in arms with joy if they could just drink soy milk instead of taking estrogen pills, plus we’d probably have heard something from asian countries where soy is consumed a lot more if it was that bad for you.

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• ericatty@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  If harvested while young, soybeans can be eaten in their original state as edamane. (You can just steam the beans and eat) They have to be processed for human consumption when left to fully mature.

  Edamame is extremely tasty sprinkled with a little salt, or drizzled with a little sesame oil and chili powders.

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  • snek@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    And contains a lot of proteins, so much away vegans!

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  • Rukmer@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Edamame is delicious and not only that but extremely healthy.

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• archiotterpup@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Scientific illiteracy. People think phytoestrogen is the same as human estrogen.

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  • naevaTheRat@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    The thing that makes me giggle is that many animal products, particularly breast milk, do have estrogen in them. Not in particularly significant quantities though but it’s hilarious.

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    • archiotterpup@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Which is even more hilarious when you find out there are body builders out there who buy breast milk for their gains.

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• zeekaran@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  A fair amount is just racism.

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  • Kra@mtgzone.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Yeah hating on soy beans is literally fascism. And probably transphobic as well somehow.

    I don’t get you guys anymore. I feel you are so disconnected in your far leftist bubble. Most people just shake their heads and you wonder why the far right is on the rise.

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    • Honytawk@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Image

      Nobody makes someone alt-right except themselves.

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    • snek@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Hmmm, does it really make sense to say “and you wonder why the far right is on the rise” in this here position?

      Of course, I wonder every single day, especially since it has affected me on a personal level as an immigrant, but do you really think the ‘wacky far left’ s behind the far right rising? Lots of leftists took it too far recently, but is that an excuse to start literal fascism? Is a normal healthy person’s response to ‘PC gone mad’ to create six alternative media websites and spout lie upon lie about immigrants then proceed to dehumanize asylum seekers? Is it an excuse for misreading statistics? Is the normal response to go to cesspools far right forums where black people are consistently called “apes” and the n word?

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    • number6@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Hi (Waving from left bubble) !

      I agree. I don’t think anyone is thinking that hard about the “Asian” roots of soybeans. And people on the left are just as hung up on their identity politics as people on the right.

      There is a strong association between Tofu with hippy culture, even though there really isn’t such a thing anymore. I guess if you don’t want heart disease by the time you’re 40, you must be a hippy.

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  • t0lo@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Lol

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• Trigger2_2000@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  As a farmer who’s family has grown probably 2M+ bushes of soybeans since they became popular in the 70s. I can truly say that the worst part is spending night after night with little needles injecting the Republican poison into the fattest beans.

  /s - do I really need this here? Oh hell yeah!

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• Kolanaki@yiffit.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Some might be from the cyberpunk genre. It’s crazy how many cyberpunk worlds are filled with soy-based everything.

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  • RememberTheApollo_@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    But Soylent Green is people…

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    • swab148@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      How’s it taste?

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• darq@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  If it's conspiracy theories in general, and not just the soy thing, then I think you might be taking the wrong approach. Just trying to debunk the soy thing might prove impossible because there is some underlying cause that is making him want to believe it.

  Your friend might be being radicalised. By a person he trusts, a community he is a part of, or simply by the algorithm of a website he is spending his time on. In which case, getting him to let go of the conspiracies is going to be extremely difficult, because to do so would lose him those connections.

  It doesn't sound like he's too far gone though. Maybe reasserting healthy connections will help, and if you can try breaking his media habits.

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  • glomag@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    You make a good point that people who believe these conspiracies often have an underlying reason making them want to believe. Dan Olson came to the same conclusion in his video about flat earthers which I would recommend to anyone who hasn't seen it.

    "Flat Earthers are not otherwise-empty vessels who believe one kooky thing. They believe that thing because it suits their purposes. [...] it says something they already believe about the nature of the social world. Flat Earth is a thing people want to believe because if it were true it would be irrefutable proof of everything else they believe."

    Folding Ideas, In Search of a Flat Earth ~29 minutes https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JTfhYyTuT44

    As for the soy thing, Hbomerguy covered the topic pretty thoroughly.

    https://youtu.be/C8dfiDeJeDU?si=-WBPUYTJxhJqbNnQ

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    • Bizarroland@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I think a lot of conspiracy theorists wrestle with the fact that the world is kind of shitty and there's not really a good reason for it to be this shitty.

      Once you have that thorn in your side to deal with then you start trying to figure out why the world is so shitty.

      Having a convenient enemy like the Illuminati or a conspiracy about the Earth being flat or some evil group of billionaires or leftists or whatever who have organized to make the world shittier so that their lives can be wonderful and perfect in every way is a great scapegoat for dealing with the underlying issue of "why is the world so shitty".

      And this is a pill that many people will find it impossible to swallow, but the reason why the world is so shitty is this:

      We, as a group, believe the world is shitty. Therefore, weact as if we live in a shitty world. Therefore we make the world shitty.

      There is no other magic sauce than that. If humanity came together and decided that they would not live in a shitty world any longer we could have the world completely and totally fixed in 12 years or less.

      But we don't do that because we believe that we live in a shitty world.

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• csolisr@communities.azkware.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  While I’m not entirely sure about this reasoning, it might be related to the status of soy as a meat and milk substitute. Omnivores claiming that “soy is not meant for human consumption in the same way that milk and meat are” must have eventually been shortened along the way as “soy is not meant for human consumption”.

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  • kava@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Yeah I think you’re right and it’s sort of the result of a long game of telephone. Soy is a complete protein but it’s a lower quality protein. For example whey protein, which comes from milk and therefore an animal product, is much easier for your body to process and use.

    Studies have shown that while both are complete proteins, whey’s amino acid profile for example is superior for muscle growth. A few of the amino acids in soy your body can’t really use that well.

    This simple fact slowly becomes “soy is dangerous” as one person tells another and shares a link on Facebook and so on.

    People really need to learn to just search up research articles and read a few studies. It’s not that hard to do and it’s generally the most reliable way to learn about something.

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• ExplanationExtreme@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Anecdotally I am intelligent and reasonable, but when I was younger around when 9/11 I couldn't wrap my head around why someone would do what they did, it was too me incomprehensible, irrational, my world view couldn't account for what happened. In that null space conspiracy theories created plausible explanations for my young and impressionable mind to latch onto.

  I soon began questioning authority in general, the nationalized narratives provided were clearly propagandized, and in that wake of dissonance real conspiracies, like the war on drugs, started to add credibility to other outlandish ones. It is intelligent to question, and even entertain that which is irrational from time to time, if not just to test the waters, so to speak.

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• Sunforged@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Humans have been cultivating soybeans for an estimated 9000 years. To think that a food staple in so many cultures worldwide is not healthy is completely xenophobic. Maybe don’t tell him that, but the framing of different cultures might be helpful. If it wasn’t healthy humans wouldn’t have thrived spending resources to grow it.

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  • qaz@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    People have been brewing liquor for thousands of years too

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    • Sunforged@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      And it’s effect on the human body is widely known. You’re not making the point you’re trying to.

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    • AppaYipYip@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Alcoholic drinks, for a good part of history, were safer to drink than water because its production includes a boiling step that kills bacteria. We know now that you have to boil or treat water before drinking but for most of history alcohol was safer.

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    • Socsa@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      And it has shaped human culture like perhaps no other food item has.

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  • number6@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    This is a conspiracy theory, not unlike the theories you will hear on the right. I’ve never heard anyone on the right equate soy with Asian or other cultures.

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    • Sunforged@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Which is a hole in thier own logic, my point entirely.

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• JokeDeity@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Crazy conspiracies have to start somewhere, he just hasn’t published his findings yet.

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• AdamantRatPuncher@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  The false belief that soy contains estrogen capable of making men less manly is one of the things that I read. It’s absolutely fake. Plants have their own chemical compounds, but they do not impact on human cells. Now you know why they keep shouting “soyboy”. Ironically, tue amount of ormones present in modern Red meat can instead impact on that. But they don’t know. So if you like your manliness you should avoid the excess of red meat, which they seem to love.

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  • SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I think the “soyboy” comes from antagonism vs vegans/vegetarians.

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  • funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    for clarity they contain (sp as this is off the top of my head) phytoestrogen. Which is as similar to estrogen as carbon dioxide is to hydrogen peroxide.

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• scarabic@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Soy makes a good target for a conspiracy theory, because it’s in everything.

  This ubiquity heightens its danger: your kids are eating it, you’re eating it, the ink on your cereal box is soy, the glue in your shoes is soy… it’s all around us, man!

  Secondly, being everywhere gives the appearance of an elaborate, omnipresent plot.

  They eat this kind of shit up.

  The fact that hippies are associated with soy milk strikes the right notes for hating soy.

  The belief that soy acts like estrogen in the body and will feminize men - that hits all the right notes for hating soy.

  Americans don’t give a shit that Asians have been eating and even living on soy for centuries, because they denigrate those cultures, seeing them as hive minds without individuality. That makes soy even more hatable.

  So if you’re going to fall down a rabbit hole at all, this seems like a deep one.

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  • SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Plus it is highly desired by Asian countries like China, they import huge amounts from Brazil, so any China paranoia gets tossed into the mix.

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• Thisfox@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Suspect it is racism. People associate soy with Asia, despite the fact that it is grown and eaten worldwide, and then extrapolate from there.

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  • wahming@monyet.cc ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I grew up in Asia, and have heard the same thing there myself. Dumb people are universal.

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• Gelcube69@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Not defending your friend, but I think part of it is the association with highly processed foods.

  I developed a soy allergy, and I was shocked to learn how much it’s restricted my diet. In two years I’ve found one brand of hot dog buns I can eat. If you you look at almost any fast food restaurants allergen menu you will see soy in almost every single items contains soy. Mayo is a effectively whipped soybean oil.

  I don’t think it’s a conspiracy, but it’s a cheap additive and seems to have some preservative quality, and a good indication that you’re food is highly processed. I eat much healthier now, largely against my will.

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• spittingimage@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I once had a co-worker who passionately believed that soy was full of feminising chemicals and it was being promoted by Western civilisation’s satanic overlords to reduce our ability to resist them. He also believed that Christians are persecuted, Chinese people are cannibals and demons come from the planet Nebiru. Once he warned me that we’re supposed to believe that people who go to faith healings collapse on stage in the ecstasy of communion with the Lord - but it’s actually just the fake faith healer pushing them down with his psychic powers.

  This doesn’t answer your question, does it? At least we can find solidarity in our misery.

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  • wahming@monyet.cc ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I protest, we’re not cannibals. We only eat non-Chinese ‘people’

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    • bastion@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      TIL, thank you.

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    • spittingimage@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Hey, we’ve all thought about it. 😉

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  • AdamantRatPuncher@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Nibiru, now that’s a name I hadn’t heard in a lot of time. Precisely since December 2012. What a trip.

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• sailingbythelee@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Not sure about soy beans specifically, but has your friend started listening to Joe Rogan recently?

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  • Jakeroxs@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Alex Jones is the one who really made it popular imo

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• JustZ@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Well he sure had you fooled, thinking he’s reasonable and intelligent. The facts show he’s gullible and stupid. Cut your losses.

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• MargotRobbie@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I think the meme first started back when Soylent was the next big thing (thinking back, it might not have been the best idea to name your product after a meal replacement made from human remains from a dystopian movie), and a bunch of YouTubers were making review of it with the typical exaggerated open mouthed clickbait expression, which led people to conclude that it was the soy that caused them to make said expression and it all started from there.

  Speaking of meal replacement products with name from dystopian fictions, anyone interested in trying the next big thing in meal replacement from our newest venture, Corpse-starch?

  (That was a joke by the way.)

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  • AdamantRatPuncher@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I was always confused by that. I kept reading about soylent, with the image of soyjack (I hate the soyjack with passion) with these bottles. I always thought about the movie, I still do because that’s quite tough to watch. But now it was all about some brand of beverages? Confusing.

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• WhiteHotaru@feddit.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Be aware that a fast change in character could be a sign for a starting mental illness or a physical one affecting the brain.

  If you feel, you are no longer able to reach your friend, talk to a professional how you could support your friend. And discussing based on logic and common sense might not be the way to help.

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• someguy3@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Well let’s separate this out.

  1. is it healthy?

  2. is it a conspiracy?

  You started with conspiracy, then said nothing else about that and went to health stuff.

  So on the first point, is it healthy? Who cares what he thinks. You have all sorts of people thinking this or that about what’s healthy and what’s not. Really doesn’t matter.

  On the second point, is it a conspiracy? Are “they” out to get him and others? This is the dangerous thinking. I would try to steer him away from this. Just tell him there are unhealthy foods everywhere that sell because they are cheap, tasty, convenient, etc. It’s not a conspiracy to make him _______.

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• sadreality@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Concern about use of soy bean or oil in highly processed food is as valid as any other. Not sure if it is soy issue or processing, there is something about tit.

  However, claiming that tofu or soy sauce are some how big food conspiracy is just uneducated since people eating these food historically have better health vis-a-vis our country of land whales who are too dense to be educated on issues of food.

  You got no time or money for your own health, checks out!

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• Montagge@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Did he read that processed soy products aren't good for you like all processed food?
  Did he develop or discover he has a soy allergy?

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• SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  This is the first time I’ve run into soy bean paranoia theories. I’ve heard of paranoia with canola (rapeseed) oil, potatoes and tomatoes.

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• msage@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  So my relative tells me soy and its products contain a funghi candida, that will infect you and cause health issues.

  Supposedly there was a farmer who fed soy to chicken, who have died sooner and had white guts.

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• originalucifer@moist.catsweat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  you cant logic someone out of something they didn't login themselves into...

  this person has an emotional deficit being filled by these online communities.

  it would take close, continual human contact by trusted companions to steer them (and keep) them off this path...like an addiction.

  just my 2 cents

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• NeoNachtwaechter@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Are you / is he inside of Usa? Then good night :-( There it is very hard to find any truth at all. It would be best to leave that country for good.

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• 1984@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Soy beans are not the same as they used to be.

  These days they are gene manipulated: www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3571417/

  It’s possible your friend is just not trusting gene manipulated crops.

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