More info on the Queensland laws: theguardian.com/…/queensland-pro-palestinian-phra…
Again, why does any country who is not Israel care at all about this? Does Australia have a military base there?
An 18-year-old woman in Queensland faces two years in jail for wearing a shirt that says "from the river to the sea."
Submitted 3 weeks ago by SarahFromOz@lemmy.world to australia@aussie.zone
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/c0ba1bdc-58d0-4c1c-9560-edc11c897e23.mp4
Comments
Zephorah@discuss.online 2 weeks ago
ForgottenUsername@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Exactly, half these people are bored with nothing better to do and should be working.
You can tell as they often are a collective with no common goal or objective other than ‘protest’. And it’s causing such division in our society with now a strong anti immigration movement cos people are getting sick of it.
And in the end everyone loses.
bampop@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
If you can get arrested and jailed for wearing a shirt saying “from the river to the sea”, that means your government is suppressing your free speech in service to the genocidal regime of a different country. Even if you don’t care about the genocide, the subversion of your democracy by a foreign power is something that any responsible citizen should be fighting against.
pipi1234@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
If the citizens of the countries that can exert some pressure on other genocidal countries do nothing who will?
Your logic is no different to saying people involved in WW2 should have mind their own businesses unless directly attacked by the Nazis.
You also fail to recognise that, as history teaches, oppression somewhere in the world can quickly be exported to you country.
And most importantly, unless you are a soulless person with no sense of empathy, we should care about suffering anywhere in the world.
toad@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Some friends died in Beyrtuth asshole.
People who get sick of it are genocide apologists.
Tenderizer@aussie.zone 1 week ago
We have 100,000 Jewish people in Australia, a significant portion of which consider themselves Zionists. Anti-Zionist slogans are something the Jewish population (wrongly) finds threatening and Labor doesn’t have the political space to take the progressive side in every culture war.
TheOctonaut@piefed.zip 1 week ago
If they were Zionist why aren’t they… y’know… Zioning off
mumphert@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
The Coalition were all about free speech when Andrew Bolt published a series of articles explicitly attacking and trying to humiliate named Aboriginal people on the basis of (what he decided was) their race. They tried to weaken the racial discrimination act. Brandis even said Australians have “a right to be bigots” - this was only 12 years ago. The double standard is breathtaking.
Gorgritch_umie_killa@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
I’m gona jump in to defend Brandis a little here and say his views on these things are usually ideologically consistent. I don’t know if he’s been asked specifically about this case, but his response (if he decided to respond), would likely be worth listening to. Even if disagreeable.
mortemtyrannis@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
Not at all shocking because it was never really a double standard.
The LNP exists to maintain the current power structures of Australia. If you in any way threaten that structure (based on Anglo-European patriarchal values) the LNP will be against you. If you uphold those values they will support you.
SarahFromOz@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Are we ok with this people?
oneser@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Obviously, assuming this is the whole story, no. Are there any planned protests? Is there an open donation box for this person’s legal fees open? Is there any other way in which the average person can help?
I’m getting sick of rhetorical questions about tyrannical governments, without any effort made to show people what they realistically can do to help.
zero_gravitas@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
Is there an open donation box for this person’s legal fees open?
Just had a look and found this one: chuffed.org/…/173177-justice-for-palestine-legal-…
Are there any planned protests?
Justice for Palestine Magan-Djin (indigenous name for Brisbane) has announced a ‘weekend of action’ against the laws on the 18th-19th of April: www.instagram.com/p/DVvfrhOk20n/
SamuraiBeandog@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Just be outraged online, bro, you’ll be doing your part.
hanrahan@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
fizzle@quokk.au 2 weeks ago
No.
Sure AF doesn’t feel like “hatred”.
chaotic_ugly@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
NO ONE WANTS TO DIE FOR ISRAEL
slampisko@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Gork@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Does Australia not have freeze peach laws in general? Asking as an ignorant Yank.
unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
Its a very recent addition that creates some exceptions to australian free speech protections under the guise of preventing combatting anti-semitism. Basically just the Israel lobby getting their personal laws.
Seagoon_@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
From the river to the sea is not per se anti Jewish, Hamas has said that includes killing all 1.75 million Israeli Sunni Muslims too.
Zagorath@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
Australia’s constitution has been interpreted by our High Court to contain an implied right to freedom of political communication. Restrictions on that right may be constitutional if they are (1) for a valid purpose and are (2) narrowly targeted towards that purpose.
The law she was arrested under was only passed by the Queensland state Parliament earlier this week (or late last week? I forget). It is definitely going to face constitutional challenge, and there is a very good chance it is ruled struck down. This is because the law literally outlaws two specific phrases from one side of a political issue, and is likely to be seen as stifling free flow of political discourse, rather than being a more “content-neutral” law.
This article, written by a constitutional scholar, gives some great insight: theguardian.com/…/the-lnps-phrase-banning-law-is-…
nevetsg@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
We have a lot of laws and legal interpritation, but it isnt written into our constitution like the US.
joelfromaus@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
Pollies like to say free speech is “implied” when it supports them and point out that it’s not a right when it doesn’t support them.
It’s a funny ol’ system.
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
It’s about the vibe.
fizzle@quokk.au 2 weeks ago
It’s complicated.
It’s not a constitutional right.
However, there’s a lot of case law that supports the rights of citizens to express their thoughts about governments. All levels all processes, with the exception of sedition, treason, national security, et cetera.
We do have strong defamation laws. There was a case a few years ago where a politician was found to have been “defamed” by another politician with respect to comments that were made.
We also have recently strengthened hate speech laws, which is the issue in this specific picture.
Finally spreading information that might compromise national security, and publications showing violence or other offensive content.
In practice, I expect that the situation is similar to what it was in pre-Trump America. However, it’s true that in theory the government could pass a law saying you’re not allowed to say anything bad about the government.
10 years ago any self respecting American would have pointed out how inferior our system is and that we don’t have any rights or freedoms. I feel like that imbalance has shifted however.
ForgottenUsername@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
In short our constitution is boring.
There will be states, federal government will do this, states do everything else
Separation of powers, there will be a crown, legislative (parliamentary), executive (public service) and judicial (courts).
Then how to alter the constitution and add the ability to annex new Zealand and that’s pretty much a wrap. Nothing fancy like yous have.
SeductiveTortoise@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
There are limits to it even in the us for example if you say something slightly offending about the president.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 2 weeks ago
No, we don’t. In fact our leftist government is currently adding more and more authoritarian censorship and speech-restricting laws seemingly every month these days.
You can now be jailed for saying something that might offend a certain subset of people even if no one actually was offended. Let that sink in.
prex@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
I got down voted last time for pointing out that “between the river and the sea” was the motto of the town of mosman park
ada@piefed.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
It’s also a John Farnham song
Zagorath@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
Close. There are two potentially relevant Farnam songs that may have been conflated in this discourse. One is That’s Freedom, which includes the lines “From the mountain to the valley / From the ocean to the alley / From the highway to the river”. And the other is Two Strong Hearts, which repeatedly uses the line “Reaching out forever like a river to the sea”. Neither quite uses “from the river to the sea”, but together they give the same sort of impression.
mech@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
Yes, if you change the words and the context, the meaning changes.
“From the river to the sea” is the rallying cry of various groups who want to destroy Israel and remove the people who were born and live there, even though the slogan doesn’t literally say it.
So maybe use a different slogan if you want something different?qevlarr@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s not surprising that antisemites would also protest Israel, but that doesn’t mean we should stop protesting Israel. There’s nothing more to it. We should not fall for our opponent’s tricks trying to paint us as antisemites
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 2 weeks ago
It’s almost like context matters. Crazy, right?
node2527@lemy.lol 2 weeks ago
What a fucking legend.
Akasazh@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s absurd. Like the British guy arrested for wearing a “Plasticine Action” tshirt.
JasSmith@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
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Calling for the destruction of a nation - be it Palestine or Israel - is calling for genocide.
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It should be legal to call for genocide.
crapwittyname@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
1.5 “from the river to the sea” is not a slogan calling for the destruction of Israel.
JasSmith@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
By defining the geographic scope of a future Palestinian state as the entire territory between the Jordan River and the Mediterranean Sea, the slogan encompasses the land where Israel currently exists. To remove all doubt about the context, remember that it has been widely used by groups like Hamas - whose founding charter explicitly calls for the elimination of Israel.
I’m sure there are people who use this phrase now and do not wish to destroy Israel. Just like there are people who use phrases like “all lives matter” and genuinely want racial equality. Unfortunately the terms are hard to disambiguate from the people chanting them.
Either way, we won’t settle this argument now, and we don’t have to. I simply do not wish to see people imprisoned for saying offensive things. That seems like an important pillar of democracy to me. I uphold the rights of people to say offensive things especially when I disagree with them. Free speech means nothing unless we’re doing it when it’s really hard.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 2 weeks ago
It 100% is, and pretending it isn’t just makes it worse.
toad@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
No. And no.
Calling for the destruction of israel is as genocidal as calling for the end of appartheid south africa. Jew can stay.
Of course they would have to pay rent and stop stealing land.
JasSmith@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
It’s hard to engage with someone who genuinely thinks Apartheid was a nation state. We could call for the end of Apartheid without calling for the destruction of South Africa.
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stoy@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Anyone know how likely it is for her to be given the max sentence?
galoisghost@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
The public prosecutor would need to prove the shirt was used to “menace, harassment or offence”. Even a mediocre defence lawyer should be able to have the charges thrown out.
A good lawyer will take it to the High Court of Australia and get the legislation thrown out.
zero_gravitas@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
This protester’s charges have been resolved by their acceptance of an ‘adult caution’, so they won’t be facing any more legal proceedings over this incident. More details in my comment here: aussie.zone/post/30509630/21880036
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 2 weeks ago
Isn’t this interesting?
I corrected the OP 2 hours before you and was mass downvoted, while you did the same 2 hours later and were mass upvoted lol
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 2 weeks ago
OP is lying - she wasn’t even charged. She was given a warning.
MisterFrog@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
She was arrested. Stupid enough, and a chilling affect on political speech
ptolemai@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Another article says protesters were charged , but left off with ‘caution’ theguardian.com/…/two-protesters-arrested-on-firs…
porcelainpitcher@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
This is a John Farnham appreciation shirt! “TWO STRONG HEARTS. We stick together from the River to the Sea! Ruuuning free!” See. All good.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 2 weeks ago
Those aren’t the lyrics lol
porcelainpitcher@lemmy.today 1 week ago
Well yeah… But let’s not let the truth get in way of the tongue-in-cheek joke.
SaneMartigan@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
From Canada to Mexico, Iran will be free?
eureka@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
SaneMartigan@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
Believe it or not…
OriginEnergySux@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
What about if I wore a South China Sea shirt? Would I get praised or arrested?
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online 2 weeks ago
You know, in the UAE, they have freedom of speech enshrined in their laws, too…
oahi@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
Are you implying that Australia has freedom of speech enshrined in our laws? Please could you point me to them?
daannii@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Their leaders are all in the Epstein files and Israel has a copy
shirro@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
I am literally traveling from the river (Murray) to the sea tomorrow. Very Aussie and quite legal down south.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 2 weeks ago
In Australia? Which sea? We are surrounded by Ocean, not Sea.
ForgottenUsername@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Aren’t we ‘girt by sea’? 🤣
Seagoon_@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
Nope.
I don’t like it in a hundred ways but making draconian laws is not the way to have political discourse.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 2 weeks ago
Correct, and we’ve got the “tolerant left” to thank for it with all their cries for censorship and “words are violence” crap. They fucked around, and now they’re finding out because like some of us said, making horrible draconian laws intended to target your political opponents doesn’t work because your opponents will be in power at some stage.
Mac@mander.xyz 2 weeks ago
I do believe this can be referred to as queen shit.
Wordplay with Queensland unintended.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 2 weeks ago
This is a complete lie - she was given a warning, nothing more.
zero_gravitas@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
She was arrested and charged, and took the option of receiving an ‘adult caution’. (Mentioned in this Guardian article.)
I think it would be misleading to say that’s ‘a warning and nothing more’.
If she hadn’t opted for the ‘adult caution’ - which requires that you don’t deny committing the offence - then she’d still be facing charges and gaol time.
So I reckon ‘complete lie’ might be a bit uncharitable, when really the information is just out of date.
Thanks for raising the point though, good to hear this protester doesn’t have legal proceedings hanging over their head.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 2 weeks ago
She was given a warning. She clearly did commit the offence as we can all see.
Nothing I said was wrong. Before anyone had even heard about this she had already been let off with a warning.
lmdnw@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Just because something is illegal, doesn’t make it wrong and just because something is legal, doesn’t make it right. We need more illegal action against those who oppress legally.
18107@aussie.zone 2 weeks ago
Best example: the holocaust was legal, hiding Jews to save their lives was illegal.
taygaloocat@leminal.space 2 weeks ago
And yet now the Jews are the oppressors/instigators
What a world.