Halfway through he describes this as malicious compliance with the “right to repair” law. Apple and others are making a mockery of the law.
So they chose to go the John Deere way.
Hyundai car requires $2000, app & internet access to fix your brakes - what the actual f
Submitted 4 months ago by sqgl@sh.itjust.works to technology@lemmy.world
Comments
nuko147@lemmy.world 4 months ago
tempest@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
They did but they are actually far worse. John Deere is into some DRM bullshit but Kia / Hyundai dealerships have the worst record for recommending things you don’t actually need and then over charging you.
TheMilk@lemdro.id 4 months ago
Fucking Kia Bastards. Took my 23 Forte GT to the dealership because driver side was blowing hot air when ac was on. Thought the blend door broke it barely had 29k miles at the time. Second thought the freon had a leak. Got the warranty. They told me it would only apply if they “found” a leak. After 5 hours. They didnt find a leak had to pay $500 for diagnostics. The mechanic said it was extremely low on freon. Which would resonate with a LEAK. But since they didnt “find” it the warranty didnt apply. Never went back and have been fixing my car myself. Fuck Kia dealerships and mechanics. All they did was recharge the system told me to come back after 500 miles because they added a dye. Told the rep, “Fuck you guys, I’m never coming back.”
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online 4 months ago
I’ve been wondering about the costs of actually having a car custom built. I obviously have neither the know-how nor the place to build my own car, but are there some garages where you can just order the parts and have others assemble it for you? I know it would be expensive as fuck, but having a road-safe, road-legal car with no on-board computer (except maybe a rear view camera… something that doesn’t need connectivity) would be worth it. They might need a vehicle Black Box, but many of those only old data for the last few seconds only in the event of a collision or accident and do not keep geolocation or personal driving data.
Jeffool@lemmy.world 4 months ago
What you want to look into is body kits. It’s taking a car, removing parts, and putting on replacements that have fittings that attach the same, but look completely different on the outside. There are many types of cars that have become the most popular to customize and have the most options, but tons of cars can be changed significantly. There are even some body kits that change everyday cards into looking like completely different cards (“kit cars”, I think they’re called), and lawsuits around some similarities of body kits. There’s also tons of YouTubers that do videos on this, and a whole culture about it. Usually they go for more flashy, and more tech, but you can probably go the other way pretty easily too depending on your taste.
It’s completely possible to do as a hobby if you have time and money, and more possible to GET done if you have lots of money. Honestly I have no idea about it. But my cousin is a car guy and I stayed with him for a few months earlier this year. Damned interesting stuff out there.
tempest@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
They don’t want body kits they want a kit car. There are a bunch on option but they are usually servicing a very specific niche in the market. Sports cars or rally fighters or the like.
ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online 4 months ago
I actually am looking this stuff up. So far I just asked an LLM about it (worst way to start I know), but I am interested in an extremely basic car. I am an elder Millennial and if I ever had to talk like an old man, this is the moment. When I was a kid I envisioned the car I want. A simple, basic hunk of metal that gets me from point A to point B. This was the car my parents and grandparents drove. As I grew up the only two major innovations that I found useful were A: RF keys that allowed you to wirelessly open your car (and I can forgo that, but they are most useful in that I don’t need to remember where I parked my car since I could just press the button and have it light up), B: Rear view cameras, which make backing up and parallel parking much easier (and Parallel parking is my ultimate weakness), and C: Blind spot sensors which I found great (but don’t need connectivity), and those can be replaced by additional small round mirrors that I have found, meaning a non-electronic option is available.
Shit like automatic window opening/closing was great, but I CAN live without it (if you haven’t been in a pre-2000 car, back before button press window opening/clothing you had to manually turn a crank to open/close a window, and you could only do it if you were next to it. there was no master crank for the driver). I also don’t care for a radio. If I want to listen to radio a simple battery operated pocket radio will suffice… and I do listen to shit on my phone, but if I do things old school like using paper maps (and thus keep my phone in a Faraday bag. BTW, I have driven in an old-school non-GPS world before and I was able to do just fine), a non-connected MP3 player will be all the music I ever need. Mildly pricey, but it is a buy-once affair.
I need to mention that a car built to those specifications is 100% legal. There is no law requiring telemetry in any country that I know. There are lots of people who drive hotrods and custom cars and older cars made prior to any of this nonsense all don’t have those things. To make a long story short, you don’t have to sacrifice privacy for all the modern conveniences. Music and movies can be done on portable non-connected devices… and if you can afford a car, you can afford those.
thermal_shock@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Me and my 11 year old just changed the rear shocks on my car, 18mm socket and wrench, 45 minutes of time. I’ll never buy a vehicle with these types of paywalls.
cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
Doing some major repairs to my 25 year old vehicle today also. New shit is junk.
ipkpjersi@lemmy.ml 4 months ago
Welcome to the future, you will own nothing and be happy about it.
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world 4 months ago
it’s a matter if time until they make Linux for cars.
partofthevoice@lemmy.zip 4 months ago
They’re still stuck on Linux for mobile.
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world 4 months ago
you mean the technicality that android is Linux based?
cv_octavio@piefed.ca 4 months ago
Oh look another Rossman PSA to show us how evil some company is. Also, the sun rose today.
I stopped giving this guy credence after his series of videos on how “dangerous” onewheels are (I now own 2, and…GASP also drive a Hyundai with an EPB). I don’t fault his motivation, but his propensity to assert that edge cases are likely mainstream is just far too much to be taken seriously.
Risks exist. Be informed.
ayyy@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Sounds to me like you haven’t had a board ghost into a stranger’s car. It’s fucking terrifying. Ask me how I know.
cyberpunk007@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
A board ghost into a strangers car?
cv_octavio@piefed.ca 4 months ago
You are correct. I would not know about that, because I ripped out their hardware and put in open source stuff, upgraded the sensors and added a dead man’s switch.
Joelk111@lemmy.world 4 months ago
One wheels aren’t shit for being dangerous, they’re shit for bricking the device if you try to replace the fucking battery, as well as other anti-consumer practices.
cv_octavio@piefed.ca 4 months ago
What’s weird is I have replaced the batteries in both of mine. It’s actually easier than spreading FUD.
Alas, I must be imagining that they still work; surely your version of reality is canon.
cv_octavio@piefed.ca 4 months ago
Which is why I VESC’d mine.
sqgl@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Risks exist. Be informed.
He is revealing the risk, he is informing. He is indignant that it is a risk which is deliberately obscured by the manufacturer.
cv_octavio@piefed.ca 4 months ago
Lol all this talk if risk mitigation mingled with an assertion that one should DIY one’s brakes, and no mentions of qualifications or safety.
It’s foolproof!
mal3oon@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Literally not the point. Companies being predatory, and using literal misinformation, and deception tactics to bend the law and screw up consumers to drive consumption is the point. Good for you being a brainless consumer who is totally fine being cucked by the “rent your hardware” industry, the many of us prefer to actually own our tools.
cv_octavio@piefed.ca 4 months ago
Lol you do you then. Lingo like “cucked” speaks literal volumes about your character, and…. fuckin’ ew.
UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world 4 months ago
They lock the parking brake behind a paywall on the scanner, so you have to pay a subscription fee. Chrysler has the parking brake service mode on the vehicle for users. VAG, BMW, Nissan, Toyota, GM etc all do it. It just make servicing more expensive for consumers, because the cost all gets passed down.
Crostro@lemmy.world 4 months ago
It is and it isn’t. To use the onboard control to actuate the parking brake, yes, you have to use the paywalled software. But it’s a simple motor. Positive and negative. If you disconnect the connector at the parking brake and use fused jumper leads to a 12v battery, you can cause the actuator to go forward or backwards. Make sure the parking brake isn’t applied before doing anything, disconnect the cars battery, disconnect the p brake connector, jump the terminals once you figure out which polarity causes the retraction. Manually compress the caliper piston, replace the pads (and hopefully the rotors too). Pump the brake pedal as you would normally once everything is replaced, reconnect everything, and you’re good to go. in my experience this doesn’t work on ford but there’s a service procedure that doesn’t use a scanner to force the park brake into service mode. There’s always a way around dumb stuff like this
boonhet@sopuli.xyz 4 months ago
Must be newer VAG vehicles then, mine definitely needed a scan tool to put on service mode. Though it’s also pretty old. I had a newer Mercedes and that had a hidden service menu that allowed me to do the brakes.
UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Probably like Chrysler, they were in bed together at one point. Just like merc, Chrysler has the junctions for network, similar aux battery, and so on. Most Chrysler you can just stomp the gas pedal 3 times to reset the oil light in addition to the instrument cluster shortcut.
UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Yep, obdeleven let’s you go into the basic settings because most of the times they have the passwords in the app. On the newer cars, especially audi, the service reset (not the oil reset) is behind a paywall. Maybe depends.on the scanner, but the autel and topdon ones need an additional subscription, along with Nissan, Chrysler etc
lightnsfw@reddthat.com 4 months ago
Why is the parking brake involved with the computer at all…
Zak@lemmy.world 4 months ago
It’s an electronic parking brake. Those are common now because a small switch takes up less interior space than a lever for a cable-actuated parking brake. The computer is involved in brake pad replacement to tell the parking brake motor to open to its widest position to accept new pads, and calibrate itself to their thickness.
This requires a special adapter and software subscription rather than a button on the infotainment screen because Hyundai is engaging in rent-seeking and perhaps trying to direct business to its dealers.
artyom@piefed.social 4 months ago
Because OEMs have all decided that the mechanical one was insufficient…
Jhex@lemmy.world 4 months ago
you are on lemmy pointing media bias as novelty? next you are going to shock us by telling us Reddit is mostly bots and sad power crazed admins
ripcord@lemmy.world 4 months ago
No…?
kameecoding@lemmy.world 4 months ago
It’s weird how many negative Hyundai news you get from the US, it’s almost like they are threatening all the established players in the market.
Meanwhile you barely hear about the toyota engine fuck ups or the fact that they being stolen en masse.
melsaskca@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
Is it possible to retrofit a used “computer” vehicle and remove all digital tech to make it electromechanical again, where the owner has complete control of what they purchased?
phoenixz@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
It’d be easier to simply hack the software and reprogram it to just act normal
Duck their software licenses. I buy a car, I pay for it, it’s MY car and I will very much decide how to use it
user224@lemmy.sdf.org 4 months ago
The problem is bugs being far bigger issue. Imagine a bug/crash causing your throttle to get stuck and brakes not working.
If it happens now, at least it’s the manufacturer who’d be liable, I hope.I want a completely separate emergency shutdown+brake.
db2@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Possible? Yes. Practical? No. You can’t just cut the harnesses out and suddenly it’s a different engine, you’d have to replace what you deleted with something and that something might not exist yet because there’s no money in developing it.
frongt@lemmy.zip 4 months ago
Right. Pretty much everything is computer now. Even in the last 20-30 years, a lot of engine control has been done by computer. You’d have to go back pretty far to find one with no digital circuitry.
If you wanted to retrofit a modern car, like you said, you’d have to replace the entire compter system with a new one, or replace everything with linkages. Are any controls directly connected any more, or are cars 100% drive-by-wire?
Jhex@lemmy.world 4 months ago
they dont charge those paywalls to dealers, this is just a way to force consumers to service their cars with expensive partners
JasonDJ@lemmy.zip 4 months ago
It’ll be reverse engineered and a tool on AliExpress for $50 within a few months.
Then it’s just an arms race between the OTA updates and the pirates.
UltraMagnus0001@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Haltech ECU, but the BCM controls the other parts of the vrhicle like locks, windows, seats, radio etc it’s possible with a lot of work.
dual_sport_dork@lemmy.world 4 months ago
“All” digital tech?
I don’t think most people realize that any powertrain new enough to even have fuel injection is going to be a “computer vehicle” in some capacity. How are you with carburetors?
melsaskca@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
I’m great at carburetors. Especially the Holley 4 barrel carb. Trial and error made me good at it. I had the freedom to try. We no longer have that. So, yes, all digital tech. Just electromechanical so we can save huge amounts of dollars by not getting involved in the “repair industry”. Transmissions are a different beast but if all the “Chilton’s’” auto repair manuals have not been secreted away and completely destroyed then I at least have a fighting chance to figure it out.
phutatorius@lemmy.zip 4 months ago
That’s not really true. The first fuel injection systems were mechanical. The first one of those used in a gasoline-powered 4-stroke car engine was in 1955. Bosch mechanical FI systems were common in higher-end European cars from then on. Digital electronic fuel injection controllers weren’t common until the 1980s, though there were some EFI systems controlled by what were essentially crude analog computers as far back as the late 1950s. I know that Volvo had such a system in the late 60s since I owned one. It was extremely reliable.
atmorous@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Yeah we definitely need open source vehicles/transportation initiatives for everything: trains, trams, hsr, cars, etc
bstix@feddit.dk 4 months ago
phutatorius@lemmy.zip 4 months ago
Cruise missiles too.
atmorous@lemmy.world 4 months ago
You’re funny
Dyskolos@lemmy.zip 4 months ago
And that’s when I switched a while ago from a modern Bentley to an “ancient” mechanical car from a past long forgotten. Every electrical gadget is local, and it just has android auto (dedicated isolated phone just for the car) with a fake google account for navigation. Everyone thinks we’re broke lol, but I’m so fed with this shit. Even a silly backlight went from 5 bucks for a replacement-bulb to 1500 bucks for the whole led-package. Parts alone, add the mechanic and the many hours needed.
Heard that all brands do this shit though. Like even disabling things remotely that are there but you didn’t subscribe to. This is bonkers.
sqgl@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
even disabling things remotely that are there but you didn’t subscribe to. This is bonkers.
I don’t understand the consumer outrage about that though. It is like paying to unlock satellite TV reception (even though we are receiving the signals the whole time).
Zak@lemmy.world 4 months ago
It is like paying to unlock satellite TV reception (even though we are receiving the signals the whole time).
It’s reasonable to charge for this because the value is in copyrighted content and a service that costs the provider money to operate. The same would apply for satellite radio in a car or an internet-based streaming service. It is not reasonable to charge for access to the adaptive suspension or seat warmers that are already in a car a customer bought. That breaks the traditional model of ownership.
An interesting middle ground might be to allow the owner to install arbitrary software on the car, and charge for the OEM adaptive suspension app. I think I would like a world where things work like that; OEMs would whine about security to no end.
I think it should be legal to attempt to decrypt satellite signals without paying; if the satellite service is designed well, it won’t be possible. All the anticircumvention laws should be repealed.
Dyskolos@lemmy.zip 4 months ago
Because, it’s already built into my car, i already paid for the car, the whole transaction is concluded. Paying in hindsight for a part of it, that is already there, is not really justified at all. If they built the car without one, and would have to add it later, then it would make sense. So if it would be more expensive to have my car explicitly built without this feature, why does it suddenly cost money when i decide i want it later?
The signal-broadcast all around everywhere and just YOU paying is simply for the fact they they can’t route them specifically to just YOUR house. It might sound equally unfair but it’s a clear distinction based on technical impossibility.
PabloSexcrowbar@piefed.social 4 months ago
The best (worst) example I’ve seen in recent memory has been seat warmers. BMW and other manufacturers tried forcing a subscription on people just to use the seat warmers that are (1) already present in the car, (2) already wired up with buttons in place, and (3) cause no additional outlay of effort on the part of the manufacturer once they’re installed. There’s no valid reason to charge a subscription for something like that beyond straight greed.
BogusCabbage@lemmy.world 4 months ago
This isn’t a new thing. Almost every car that has an electrical park brake advises you to use software to change change out your rear brake pads, as when you release your Electric Park Brake (EPB), the EPB motor doesn’t wind back enough, to give you the space required to install new pads and/or rotors, it only winds back enough to release pressure off the piston pushing the pad, which this has been in production cars since 2001 (some cars have brake maintenance modes which can be activated without software, Mazda first comes to mind with this). This whole Hyundai/Kia deal reminds me of Volkswagen back when they were intoducting proprietary software for vehicle maintenance, which led to a guy getting mad and making his own software that does everything the factory software does for a fraction of the cost and arguably better (Rosstech/VCDS) which I feel will happen soon with Hyundai. But being mad just at just Hyundai for this is the wrong mindsent, almost every car manufacturer does this and for a long time, and needs to stop. Even for dealerships this is horrendous because it uses a always online software that if you live somewhere with bad internet or GPS connection, stops you from even just resetting the service interval, which as usual is explained as being a good thing for “safety reasons” by the manufacturer.
artyom@piefed.social 4 months ago
The new thing is that the user bought a professional scan tool and license and he still couldn’t do anything because he didn’t have a business license. Hyundai said the software was “not for DIYers”.
BogusCabbage@lemmy.world 4 months ago
The other guy commenting is somewhat right, the user shouldn’t have bought this tool for DIY use, as most dealership software won’t work for DIY use because it is also a warranty tool, hence the need for a business license, the diagnostic software will record everything you do, upload a log file for the manufacturer to read to make sure they carry out the repairs correctly/services are inline with schedules, and they need that business license information so they know who to approve or deny a claim to. every manufacturer will have a software that does this and they shouldn’t be used for DIY use because it simply won’t work (unless there are cracked versions where people have remove that functionality, I believe there is software for Subaru and Toyota out there like this). There is other tools for the DIY use that are a fraction of the cost that does what you need, and most aren’t vehicle/brand specific, and good brands of OBD2 scanners will regularly pushout updates to cover more cars and more test functions over time. The issue mainly I see is manufacturers hide this information and unless you are well knowledged in the field or know a guy, the cheap and safe route is often so incredibly difficult to find and usually ends up in people confused and scared to work on their own cars, which sucks because the premise of all the hardware used in cars isn’t really that far from 50 years ago, software and 4-8km of wiring can scare people and the manufacturers want that because it scares people out of DIY fixes but still ticks the boxes of right to repair laws. (Sorry for the big comments, I can’t keep them small)
boonhet@sopuli.xyz 4 months ago
He shouldn’t even have bought that. Most manufacturers give the diagnostic info to 3rd parties who build consumer tools. That’s how things like iCarsoft support a lot of these dealership tool functions.
lightnsfw@reddthat.com 4 months ago
What’s stopping people from disconnecting the EPB and manually connecting a battery to the motor to wind it back?
BogusCabbage@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Nothing really, if it works, it works, But do have to be mindful though that the wind back function could also be a recalibration of the motor to know where the pistion is in some manufacturers. Some manufacturers the Body Control Module (BCM) might not care that it took 3 seconds longer then last time before there was resistance on the EPB, where as in some it’ll flag that there was a large discrepancy and put a warning on the dash and maybe disable the park brake, or ABS and the BCM will require a test function to be ran to recalibrate the EPB before regaining the functionality, but again this is manufacter specific
The_Jit@lemmy.world 4 months ago
More up to date info here: hackaday.com/…/hyundai-paywalls-brake-pad-changes… You can do it with just a $300 bidirectional scan tool from Harbor Freight.
And the OOP responding about it: www.reddit.com/r/Ioniq5N/comments/…/nonp97y/
xxce2AAb@feddit.dk 4 months ago
I guess that’s one way to make people give up cars in favor of public transportation.
greenbelt@lemy.lol 4 months ago
Making them unaffordable for the majority by jacking up car insurance prices, seems like a super efficient strategy.
Dagrothus@reddthat.com 4 months ago
You must not be american. It is literally not an option here.
aeternum@lemmy.blahaj.zone 4 months ago
that’s just sad. I have about 4 bus stops within a 5 minute walk. a bus transfer station 10 mins away, and a train station 15 mins away. I feel bad for americans having to rely on a car :/
db2@lemmy.world 4 months ago
psx_crab@lemmy.zip 4 months ago
Yeah, i watched the video and the dude just yap and yap and yap non-stop, and the actual content is only at the front of it.
That trick works with all EPB, you can also take off the motor and turn the mechanism yourself, that’s how all backyard mechanic does it for every car with EPB without buying the tools meant for workshop. There’s nothing special to it. Dude could’ve save a lot by send it to dealership instead.
neukenindekeuken@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
TL;DW; he bypasses the whole 2500 dollar software thing by using common sense that the caliper only has two wires in it so you just need to feed a positive and negative power line to it from a low voltage power source and it will extend or retract the electric caliper as needed.
insomniac199@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Ah good ol’ fake Honda