Submitted 3 days ago by Krauerking@lemy.lol to aboringdystopia@lemmy.world
https://www.sfgate.com/food/article/sf-grocery-store-installed-security-measures-21138800.php
New gates at the entrance automatically swing open when customers walk in, but they’re set to trigger an alarm if someone attempts to back out.
This sounds like a great way to troll them. There’s nothing illegal or even just wrong about deciding to turn around when entering a store, so alarm away! What do I care, I have time.
I already set off alarms all the time at stores with these gates. They seem to be set to close completely after every customer enters. Or maybe the ones near me just need their motion sensors adjusted, to be a little more sensitive. Either way, I just don’t stop walking, and usually end up hip-checking it out of the way since they’re still trying to close when I approach. They’re not difficult to open and they don’t hurt. But forcing them open (by just walking through them) sets off the alarm.
I don’t even bother slowing down or acting surprised. I just keep moving to whatever I was going to buy while the alarm blares behind me. It’ll stop after a few seconds, meaning it only seems to go off while the gate is actively being held open. If someone truly wanted to be annoying and malicious, I guess they could just set a shopping cart inside the gate as they walk through, so an employee would actually need to manually intervene and move the cart.
“You didn’t have what I wanted at a price-point I found acceptable, but that’s all right - I came prepared with full camping gear and my own sleeping bag. Don’t worry about it - you’ll hardly notice me sticking around, possibly for ever.”
Yeah never purchase and you can never leave. Just beg for food from those that want to leave desperately enough. They get their receipt and you get their items.
And you repay the establishment for the inconvenience of your unlawful imprisonment by advertising their special services to all the other visiting patrons. That seems fair.
I mean, I do have to wonder how many people with physical or mental disabilities are effectively just going to be trapped in here.
Also get the sense that they’ll have more and more and more and more and more security in and around the building as younger people start passing around exploits in the security setup.
Well, I mean, even if the thing has access to a shared PoS DB using properly randomized, sufficiently long and non-sequential transaction tokens, it’s still deliciously susceptible to simple malicious compliance: Find the cheapest single item carried by the store, fill up an entire basket with them sumbitches, line up each item separated by a divider and insist on a receipt for each separate transaction to “prepare for any future need to check if the store carries anything i actually want while maintaining strict compliance with store policies”. Then, head outside and start distributing whatever it is for free to other prospective customers and use that to strike up a conversation about the recent changes. You never know. People might get ideas.
I think I’d just leave though the fire exit.
Beat me to this response by an hour. Who the fuck do they think they are, right? What if I can’t find what I’m looking for, or was just browsing?
People go to grocery stores to just browse? I’m not defending this, I just thought it an odd argument.
If I went into a store that demanded money to regain my freedom, they’d find themselves in a precarious legal situation pretty quick. Unlawful detention quickly turns into kidnapping charges, or, an “I feared for my life” defense (2A) situation.
My thought was checking if their pharmacy has my meds in stock
Is this not illegal as hell?
Oh for sure this would be unlawful imprisonment and probably break some minor fire codes but who cares about that kind of stuff these days.
There is profit at stake!
Yeah like the time a book store locked me and my wife inside. I pushed on the door not knowing it was locked and it broke open. Guess due to the emergency exit bar. They got pissed but I told them they illegal locked us in and fuck off.
This isn’t a minor fire code. but a death trap
You cannot stop me, that’s false imprisonment and you have no authority in this jurisdiction. I will be leaving, or I will be pressing charges. Your choice. That’s not even close to enough for reasonable suspicion (which is debatably actionable anyway in most circumstances).
Unfortunately you have limited opportunity to make a fuss. Looks like they can claim the security guard can let you out.
Or maybe pull the fire alarm, idk. I don’t see how blocking the exits for an emergency is acceptable
Speaking of fires, what time does that store close and the people leave?
More than one way to skin a building.
So…fire hazard. Got it
So false imprisonment is acceptable now if it’s a corporation doing it?
Huh. I’m reminded of Roller Coaster Tycoon, which has scenarios where you have to have a certain number of guests in your park at a specific time; and a valid strategy is to get enough people to come into your park, and then delete the path behind them so that they literally can’t get out.
Peak American entrpreneurship
That’s just trapping them inside. I’d argue peak is making the exit for every ride the entrance to the next ride. They have to pay their way out or stay stuck in line.
Are you really playing Roller Coaster Tycoon if you aren’t torturing your guests
Doing so will cause a decrease in your park rating, When guests are trying to leave but unable to find the exit, it lowers the rating significantly. There’s a reason every guest goal scenario has a park rating requirement as well.
It is effective up to a point. It takes time before the guests realize they’re trapped and kill your rating. You have to time it right. The guest spawn rate calculations include the rating, so a low rating also reduces the number of guests who spawn. Trap the guests too soon and you’ll never get enough.
Trapping guests with no entry signs or removing the route to the exit will ruin your park in time. It can be effective in some specific circumstances but not many.
True, though I think you might be able to use entertainers to overcome the rating drops long enough? I’m not sure.
You got me some nostalgia there… As a kid in the 90s, I learned HTML to make my own Roller Coaster Tycoon website on geocities 😂
Nice. I learned Qbasic to make a Pokedex.
NFPA 101 -
7.1.10.1 “Means of egress shall be continuously maintained free of all obstructions”
7.2.1.5.2 “Locks and latches shall not require the use of a key, a tool, or special knowledge or effort for operation from the egress side.”
Looks like a little glassbreak keychain tool would make for a quick and crunchy exit.
Me personally, I’d start kicking and hospital bills means a reason to sue.
Experienced similar at a Vons in Long Beach, CA. Not only that, but leaving from the checkout was itself a small maze-like experience. This won’t last long once people die or are injured.
While I watched some customers struggle with the new technology, my receipt scanned immediately. The glass doors slid open, and I was free. But if, like this person on the San Francisco subreddit recounted, I hadn’t bought anything, my only means of exit would have been to beg the security guard to let me out.
The security guard
How has the fire department come down on them like a ton of bricks?! Maybe the fire exits are accessible, but those are meant to be additional exits, not the primary means of egress.
I cannot believe they stay in business. The first time I have to scan my receipt to leave, fuck that noise, never going back.
They can’t hold you hostage. Oh wait, it’s the USA . Maybe that’s legal now. I don’t know.
Yeah the US can make anything legal and the citizens don’t do much. I’m pretty sure they still have the death penalty in some states
Are we still pushing this “shoplifting is out of control” narrative?
It has practically doubled actually. People are starving and can’t afford food.
Its not out of control just the controls are nothing the oligarchs want to do.
We made it so that there was the least friction to people just buying constantly and freely… Well now we need app operated coupons, face scanning entrances and receipt operated exits with merchandise locked behind plexiglass…
Why are customers so reluctant to buy now?!
lol of course it’s Safeway.
The photos for these ones in the article and the ones being installed in DC are glass and more like the subway ones and chest height.
They pop out the way if pushed.
I’ve seen the entry gates in stores, where you can’t go out the front very easily. Except, you can force them open with a little bit of pressure. And yes, it sets off an alarm. It isn’t terribly loud, but it will turn heads.
You don’t owe anyone an explanation as to why you’re leaving through the entrance. They also can’t bar you from leaving if you don’t buy anything. I’m willing to bet those exit gates open just as easily. The article cites fire codes, but it’s also false imprisonment to keep people from leaving without probable cause to detain. That’s why a lot of stores’ policy is to let you exit the store even if they know you shoplifted. Because for it to be an actual theft, you must deprive them of their ability to sell it. Just pocketing it isn’t enough — once you step off the property however, you’re guilty of shoplifting. With the gates clearly being inside the store, even if you are holding merchandise you haven’t paid for, they have no legal cause to detain you.
The law is not clear on what your rights are if they are not actively detaining you and you are not able to leave, at least not here. Where you are, it may be different. I do know if you break something trying to leave, you can be charged with vandalism or destruction of property. If they’ve barricaded you in, they have to lift the barricade upon request. The law is fuzzy on how long they have to do it, though. So they can obstruct you from leaving for a time but they can’t detain you. What’s the difference? The law is not clear. It’s not five minutes, it’s not ten minutes, it’s not an hour. But also, if you hop over the thing without damaging it, you’re legally in the clear. And it looks like you can hop over it without much effort.
I’m not a big fan of Safeway. They have nice stores, and I enjoyed their soda (Safeway Select) when I was younger. Now, I don’t drink soda. I do admit they have good products (that they make) and clean stores, for the most part. When I am in Northern California, though, another chain gets my business. I don’t hate Safeway, but they are not my first choice.
Yeah, no, if I’m trapped in a store, I’m kicking the door in
Yes I am.
6nk06@sh.itjust.works 3 days ago
One more lie from reddit, for karma. Pathetic.
Krauerking@lemy.lol 3 days ago
Yeah I saw that… The fuck it is not.
Jeeze people trying to argue that Europe is different from america I get but not pretending you get locked in grocery stores to do so.
Kazumara@discuss.tchncs.de 3 days ago
I have seen scan gates after self checkout counters before. In Albert Heiijn shops in Amsterdam and in Lidl Shops in Zürich.
But Coop and Migros Shops don’t have them in Switzerland. I think the 7/11 in Copenhagen also didn’t but I’m not sure of my memory.
IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world 3 days ago
never in my life living in EU countries have I witnessed such bullshit
GissaMittJobb@lemmy.ml 3 days ago
The only remarkable thing about this coming from the perspective of Sweden would be if there is no ungated exit, for example at the manned checkout. Having one-way gates at the entrance has been standard practice for as long as I’ve been alive, and basically ever since self-checkout became a thing, they have been receipt-gated.
You’ve always been able to exit by the manned checkout though as for obvious reasons you can’t imprison people who visit your store
LwL@lemmy.world 2 days ago
The one way gates are standard, the only exit being ticket scan isn’t. The change is supposedly only the one way gates, so they’re half truthing to pretend it’s normal.