Submitted 22 hours ago by Worx@lemmynsfw.com to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world
For example, an English person might introduce themselves as “Bob”, whereas an American with the same name might introduce themselves as “Bahb”. (Sorry, don’t know the phonetic alphabet but hopefully you get my gist)
Should you pronounce those two people’s names the same, with your own natural accent, or should you copy how the person says their own name?
No. Even if it’s foreign, I don’t put on an accent.
Just pronounce it as it’s supposed to be pronounced according to it’s written form
I think the risk of that approach is that if you attempt to copy their accent too literally it can sound like mockery, especially if you are clumsy in your imitation. Like you’re breaking out of your own accent on purpose because you think their name spoken in their accent sounds silly, and by repeating it in an exaggerated way you’re demonstrating how silly it sounds to you, and that kind of response can be interpreted as mocking or sarcastic.
I think it’s safer if you try to strike at most a middle-ground between your own accent and their pronunciation, use it as guidance for the sounds but still keep it clearly in your own voice. When somebody has an accent I expect my name to be spoken at least to some degree in that same accent, so it’s not going to need to be an exact facsimile of the sounds I made.
That’s my thoughts anyway, as a native English speaker.
Accent is not pronunciation, I try to get as close as possible as the originally intended pronunciation the person cast of their name, not mimic the stereotypical changes in the common sounds the person makes on the transcribed text of their name… I believe there is a difference
In those situations, I repeat it back to them and ask if I got it right.
It’s a good question. I always wonder the same thing about the US vs UK versions of Craig and Graham.
US - “kregg”, “gram”
UK - “krayg”, “gray-um”
I saw something about this the other day, but I forget exactly where. They spoke about two famous people, both with given name "Craig" where one was British and the other American. They said that they would deliberately pronounce the name differently for each person in order to reflect that person's preferred pronunciation.
Approximating that within your own accent wasn't mentioned, but I assume that would be acceptable.
Another one that springs to mind is the name "Colin". There was that well-known US politician who insisted that his name was to be pronounced with a long 'o' not a short one, which deviated even from the standard US pronunciation.
If I remember correctly, he insisted that if it was to be pronounced the other way, it should have had two L's in it. Makes me wonder how he spelled/pronounced travel(l)ing.
For some names/languages, it does kinda help me pronounce them correctly. Japanese and French names are some examples I can think of where it could be useful.
My name is unpronounceable for most non-native French speakers. I tell them to not even try, as there are sounds in French that don’t exist in English. Instead, I introduce myself by butchering my own name, or by using the English equivalent to my name.
there are sounds in French that don’t exist in English
LOL no. I was perfectly fluent in French when in high school and college. I imitated by best teacher, little man from Arkansas that spoke English like a squirrel. When he visited France, they didn’t believe he was an American tourist.
Great argument.
“Crypto,” I say in a bad French accent.
Nice try, Cuthulu
Ph’nglui mglw’nafh Cthulhu R’lyeh wgah’nagl fhtagn
Ooh same! It makes me cringe when someone tries to say my name really well, even if I know they mean well, I can’t help it, it’s my French genes!
So want to know your name. Bet money my American ass could pronounce it perfectly.
lol, I tell em to use my first name
If the name depends on an accent, I’d say yes, but only to an extent.
A good example is the name Jesus. We tend to think of Christ, the Christian figure, when we read the name and think “Gee-zuhs.” But it’s a common Hispanic name and it’s pronounced “Heh-zoos.” Die Hard 3 made a joke about this. Samuel L. Jackson’s character is called Zeus. One of his people says “Hey, Zeus” and Bruce Willis’ character calls him “Jesus” but pronounces it the same. “Do I look Puerto Rican to you?!” Jackson cries out to him. “He said Jesus,” Willis says. “As in hey Zeus, shove a lightning bolt up your ass ZEUS!” Been ages since I watched it but I still remember that part.
Asking people how to pronounce their names and asking them back, attempting to do so, if it’s fine, and not only listening to what they say, but reading their body language, is the way to go.
I once knew a guy, can’t remember if he was Cambodian or Vietnamese, he didn’t give people his name because nobody could pronounce it correctly. I asked him to let me try. Took me a few tries, but I got it. Oddly I still remember it. Can’t fucking type it to save my life though. He did ask I still call him by the same name others do, so as not to create confusion, but he was happy I learned to say his name. And if it was just us, I could use it.
This is my approach. You are gonna get a kind of Americanized version because I can’t help it, but:
We have an Irinya in our department, soft r, I sounds like our long E - I am not gonna call her Irine! Soft R I am familiar with from Spanish, I’m sure it’s not spot on as she is Eastern European but close enough for her, she says it sounds right. One lady on our team can’t even hear what the R sounds like and can’t make the sound, she calls her eeReenya with the hard R. Still acceptable to Irinya, that’s what matters.
If it’s some sounds I can’t pronounce, I’d ask what they want to be called if I can’t make those sounds but in general yes I try to pronounce people’s names as they do, to the extent I can.
My birthname is anglicized French. The English form is well-known. I hate it. I cope. No one’s gonna get it right.
It’s a French name pronounced the English way?
if the name is from a language you both speak (like the bob example) and the difference is only how you enunciate then dont worry about it. People dont care if its just a regional thing. Otherwise you should copy the pronunciation not the accent. idk if that’s what you mean but for example don’t do an italian accent in your english voice to “sound more italian” you’d get weird looks. Enunciate (the name only) the way they do.
Perfect answer, thank you. I was specifically asking about names from a shared language.
Personally, I would attempt to pronounce their name to the best of my ability. On the other hand, my own name is particularly difficult for native English speakers to a point where I readily accepted ‘hey you’ as a mode of address.
I work with a lot of people around the world and I feel like I mangle my foreign coworkers names so badly, despite my best efforts, especially if I’ve never heard anyone else call them by name before. Sometimes if it looks too intimidating I’ll just ask how to pronounce it and do my best to mimic what they say. Most people are super understanding and helpful and sometimes even amused, but I have to imagine it must get a bit tiresome. I can totally understand why some of them choose to use “western” names instead, and I respect their choice if that’s what they want me to call them. I probably would too if I were in their position.
Still, I wish I was better at it and could easily speak their native name, I feel like it’s more respectful when I can finally get it right.
The name owner is the only authority that counts about how to pronounce their own name. Asking them is always the best place to start, even if it seems obvious. Especially if you say you often mangle names and appreciate being corrected whenever you get it wrong. That’s helpful when you haven’t interacted in awhile and forget, because you can just do your best guess, with a questioning tone, and they will correct you if it’s bad enough to bother them.
If I was the one on the other end of the equation, that you would be willing to make the attempt would invite immediate respect, and I wouldn’t hold it against you if you never got it right. Like I said, ‘hey you’, or - failing that - ‘oi cunt’ will do. Mind you, I’ve worked abroad in… fairly special places, namely the games development industry.
We don’t stand on ceremony much.
From experience speaking with Americans, Bahb would get really confused because he probably can’t hear the difference between his name and Bob.
I thought this post would be about calling a French guy Pierre vs. pee-Air, even when speaking English, lol
What’s the other pronunciation besides pee-air?
Pierre
It’s normal to come across words you don’t know how to pronounce in your native language. When you do, you either ask someone for the pronunciation or stumble along until someone corrects you. Names are no different and you shouldn’t be made to feel ashamed by any earnest attempt to pronounce them. Forget about the accent and focus on the specific sounds involved in the name. If you cannot form sounds that are foreign to you, the owner of the name will likely help you pronounce it in the language you’re comfortable with. They are probably used to doing this.
There’s way too many languages and dialects with way too many sounds out there for this to be practically doable. For foreign names some basic degree of approximation is desirable, but nothing more than that. In principle you shouldn’t expect or demand people to produce sounds not found in their native dialect (unless they’re actually learning the foreign language).
Besides, it’s not even odd for people not to be able to pronounce stuff according to the standard norm of their own native language, due to the dialectal variety within the same language.
As for names from within the same language, it could sound artificial and even condescending if you tried to go for a pronunciation not native to you. Bob is just Bob, no need to stress that he’s “American/British Bob”.
I guess it makes the most sense to do what feels natural. In my case that’s pronouncing the name in the language I’m speaking at that moment.
IMO, yes. Proper nouns should be pronounced properly. I recognize that this has implications, such as: Mazda Matsuda! But that’s what i believe.
When i had a French friend named Marion, i didn’t call them “Mare-ee-uhn”.
I try to say it exactly like they say it.
I had a coworker named Mahmoud, and all my native-English-speaking coworkers heavily anglicized the pronunciation, removing the throat-clearing sound of the h, and changing the first vowel to the a in “math” rather than the a in “wall”. Whenever I spoke to him, I tried to copy his inflection as best I could, and and he seemed delighted, but I never clarified if it was about my pronunciation.
For something like the example you shared, I don’t think so. For a name in a significantly different language that doesn’t have a direct equivalent in my own, I’ll do me best to use the appropriate phonemes - but not an “accent” per se.
American Bobs are Bohbs not Bahbs that’s Babs
I would probably be a bit offended and think you were making fun of my accent if you copied me.
I’d be happy they made the effort to try.
A name is just the noise another person makes to get your attention or address you. If they make the wrong noise - it’s not gonna work as well.
They can try…by saying my name.
You don’t need to copy my Australian accent to say my name.
Asking me to repeat my name 5 times is annoying.
💀 Bruh my teachers did this. I hated it. Like c’mon, there’s no way they’re gonna be able to pronounce a tonal-language correctly.
This reminds me of the time when I met a British girl during my backpacking days in Australia. She got very upset every time anyone called her Sarah (American accent), because her name was Saaaarah (long first vowel). Everyone around her did their best to accommodate her. But it never even crossed her mind that all of us intentionally pronounced our own names in a very English friendly way, to make it easier for her as an English native speaker to address us 🤦🏻♂️
Some languages you just can’t copy the sounds.
Like Chinese names with the tones. I’m Chinese-American and I just gave up on even trying to get teachers to get my name right, and use the Americanized pronnonciation of the pinyin instead, without the tones. Like I don’t feel offended or anything, its a tough language, besides I speak Cantonese at home, so idk what pronounciation I would even give. I think a English speaker attempting to pronounce my name in Mandarin or Cantonese and then proceeds to butcher it, its gonna make me feel even more embarassed/cringe at my name so I don’t bother. (I mean I’m not embarassed at my name, to be clear. I just feel cringe for the teacher when I hear the wrong pronounciation used, and cringe is contageous)
I’d say just pronounce the English version of it. I mean I could probably pronounce the Chinese name of a fellow Chinese-American classmate, but the teacher would have no idea who I’m referring to since they wouldn’t be able to pick up on the tones. So I’d just go with a English pronounciation.
I think a better example to convey what you mean is rolling Rs. Like for most native english speakers, they would pronounce “Roberto” with a soft Rs, while the hispanic pronunciation would use a hard R. That said, I pronounce it depending on who I’m talking to and mirror how they say it.
If there’s a common way of pronouncing it in your accent/dialect use that one unless asked to use a different one.
Otherwise it might come off as you making fun of either their name or accent.
So in the example you gave maybe use “Baub” instead of “Bahb”.
Pronounce their name as best as you can. Im sure both of you can be native and non-native speaker to each and own tongue.
There are some people will upfront dislike you or gives negative impression for saying their name in not a proper way. (Dont worry you’ll encounter them less)
Wild thought: this could’ve saved the Mitsubishi Pajero in Latin America.
I think it depends on whether the sound difference actually makes a phonemic difference in the source language—like, would a native speaker hear it as an oddly-pronounced version of the correct sound, or as a distinct, different sound in that language?
asdfasdfasdf@lemmy.world 27 minutes ago
I don’t do the accent with names. It reminds me of when people say croissant with a French accent or “Mehico” instead of Mexico - I get those are the pronunciations if you’re speaking French or Spanish, but IMO the rest of the sentence is English so just use the English accent / pronunciation.