Submitted 8 months ago by FreshParsnip@lemmy.ca to showerthoughts@lemmy.world
How is kindness a bad thing? I thought that was universally agreed to be a good message to have in a piece of media. I guess the excuse is they don’t want media to have messages at all but like, how would you even have a movie where the hero has no values that they stand for?
Their religion / tribal cult only wants to use the United States, forget about “Truth, Justice and the American way”, they want US soldiers to pay with their blood.
Billionaires like Peter Thiel have thought long and hard about why they can’t get everything they want. He has effectively said that his own policies would be so u popular that nobody would ever vote for them, but that he has found the internet to be an effective tool to sway populations.
So what about us makes the world so good that they can’t fulfil their darkest desires? Social cohesion, knowledge and empathy.
What have himself, Muskrat et all have inundated us with over the last few years is their “antidote” to that: stranger danger, disinformation and “empathy is weakness”. It’s the playbook of the billionaire psychopath and people don’t realise they are dancing to their tune.
Interesting point! I’ve recently started thinking about the core message of Christ. It’s been misused and abused for millennia, but at its core it literally is “treat people like you would want them to treat you”.
But if everyone thought that way, where would the support for war come from? How can we justify monstrous behavior for profit without figuring out ways to make the victims seem like different people than we are? Horrible people who deserve the violence!
People have this ability to take the most constructive, beneficial and altruistic ideas and bend them to create victims and justify violence.
This shit has been happening since the first person used a thunderclap to elicit a sacrifice. The new church is social media, and the new congregation is worldwide.
Matthew 22:36-40 New International Version 36 “Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”
37 Jesus replied: “‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] 40 All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”
Nah kindness is Woke
I only watched a cam-rip and stopped after Louis Lane “interviews” Superman which was painful to watch. The typical reporter tearing and deliberately misrepresenting or framing things in the dominant world order, every question a cut and propaganda criticizing people who disagree. It was kinda gaslighting, like “why did you attack our ally unprovoked?! Also some people are saying you’re an alien spy!”. Instead of asking questions to get the truth, they are loaded questions that can’t be answered without making yourself look bad.
What a total failures as a character introduction and makes her instantly an unlikeable removed. I mean holy shit is that bad storytelling. Or is that just me? If that is what you think a reporter should do, then don’t do it as a friend / girlfriend, and if that is how you see the world that you are not worthy of being the girlfriend of a hero like Superman. Because in my opinion you’re one of the villains in real life.
I do suspect this plays into why some people disliked superman. What people seek in these troubled times is strength. And they hate what tears strength down, seeking to control or subdue it or put it in it’s place in the proper order of things. They want someone to break things because deep down we all know the path we’re on right now leads downward (economic inequality, enshittification of products, appliances and services, climate change and environment, rising tensions, news and social media, post truth world). The people voting aren’t entirely wrong in just wanting to see the world burn.
There is a quote which I don’t know where it came from or remember well: “The samurai valued strength above anything else, because that is where all other values flow from”. Or differently: “The samurai believed that strength was the foundation of all values, as it enabled them to uphold honor, loyalty, and discipline.”
But our liberal world order sees strength as something that has to be separated, atomized, means tested and distributed into channels to control. Controlled by laws, bureaucracy or better yet, the dictates of capitalism, because it’s oh-so-efficient. I suspect right wingers like Homelander not because he’s a corporate product, but because he breaks out of that and goes rogue, and also rejects the “we must not kill anyone and obey the laws or we will be like the villains!” bullshit.
The cult of personality or hero worship represents a desire of people that someone comes and fixes all this shit and cuts through the red tape. Someone who has strength and the courage to use that strength, despite all the clever fucking shitty arguments and conventions to the contrary. Because we’ve heard it all before and it sounds so good but it’s clearly not working. Superhero movies are supposed to fulfill that wish and grand escapism into a world where our problems are magically solved. But recent movies (Marvel) failed to do that, instead pushing the failed real world fantasy of a liberal world order into the movies. Like the common trope of Washington and the government being fundamentally good and working well, except for a few bad apples, and as soon as you get the proof and give it to the good people or the newspapers, everything works out fine. Which is a painful reminder that it doesn’t in real life.
I suspect the “reactionary backlash” is not just about racism, it’s about the rejection of the distraction of identity politics - that if we only lean in more, if we accept different cultures, everything will be fine - because that is just distraction from the continued neoliberalism and disaster capitalism. But breaking things and bringing things to a head is also an opportunity - accelerationism.
These are just by jumbled thoughts on how this reflects on our culture war. Again, I haven’t watched the movie or read any of the right wing critiques, only seen the “liberal backlash to the backlash”. This controversy in itself is rather predictable and pisses me off. Like it’s a distraction in itself, a pair of two anger memes that complement each other perfectly are tossed into the ether to continue to keep us occupied.
Also after I stopped the movie I read some (serious) reviews and it’s also just a shitty movie.
If you’re going to use a movie to deliver populism and morality, it better be a good movie or you’re just handing ammunition to the world’s worst piles of shit.
Yeah the value of art is that it can express or show things about the world that are hard to express in words. And we desperately need a new way and clarity about the failure of the old ways, because that is what leads to the cynicism and hopelessness. So either keep politics out of it, or have a bloody brilliant take on politics that provides actual value.
I quite like superhero movies as escapism, like a fantasy world where clear definitions of good vs evil exist. But I can’t stomach biopics or docudramas that mix this fantasy with real world propaganda, like some nostalgic fantasy about US politics or journalism any more. It feels like they all want to recreate the beautiful fantasy of Sorkin’s “The White House” or the classic thriller take of “a bad apple in a good system” but today that is a dangerous lie.
I have a theory of society that is 30-30-30 based around a narcissistic spectrum. 30% of the population at any given time is narcissistic to some extent. They are conceited in their interactions with society.
We live in a time of decline. This is creating stress throughout the population. How people react to this stress shows their true character. The narcissistic leaning people, during these times of stress, look for scapegoats. If we just eliminate these types of people, we can go back to the good times. They are the fascists throughout history. When fascism and mindless violence rises during times of decline, it is due to this latent population, which is always there but only activated by the stress of decline.
The other groups are the 30% who are altruistic and cooperative. They interact with society by seeing what can be built by all and the value of different types of people. They have won the day too throughout history, but a society the averts disaster by coming together and rebuilding is just a society that continued to be successful. They are little noted as they do not bring the great calamities and destruction that get written down in the history books.
The final group are the 30% who are ambivalent. They don’t engage with politics in a meaningful way and have little willpower. They see life as a fate to be endured. Whichever way the wind blows, they will follow.
The balance determines which side wins. It is influenced by the power structures of the day, the zeitgeist and the strength of propaganda and the leaders of each side. It’s fairly clear which side is winning now and I don’t see the altruistic side coming to save the day any time soon.
Often times, when altruism does prevail, it is because someone with great courage that is a member of the existing power structure leads their cause. There are no such people at this time. Our power structure has blatantly embraced greed and sociopathy for 50 years now. Everyone who is successful now has been a part of that system and is thoroughly corrupted by it.
Good theory but the math is off, 30+30+30 only adds up to 90. What about the other 10%?
The balance. It ebbs and flows with the cultural landscape of the times.
Cause Americans are obsessed with Rugged Individualism.
If you are in trouble, you don’t accept help, much less ask for it. You pull yourself up by your bootstraps and turn your fortunes around with grit and determination using nothing more than the loose change in your pocket.
Thats how anyone that needs help became nothing more than social parasites leeching off the rugged individualistic success of their betters.
Thats why Americans, on the whole, have all but erased empathy and good will towards others.
Its why 1/3rd of the country actively votes for weak, pathetic fascists who poorly playact as strong man. Its why 1/3rd of the country didnt bother voting, because they have no problem with fasciatic strongmen punishing the weak and the other.
The New Religion of the American Orthodoxy is basically “Fuck you, Got Mine”.
Hyper-individualism is a much more modern idea that may have its roots in our founding but it was exploited by capitalism during the post-war financial boom last century.
Before we had media showing us “how it should be” families lived together throughout their lives, communities helped each other and American towns pulled together and helped each other in a variety of ways. The whole idea of single-family homes was invented by the housing industry to get people to buy three to four times as many homes. To sell this they started leaning harder into the idea that you’re the protagonist, you specifically, you are special just for being American, you are special for wanting your own things (that are advertised to you) and so on.
And before industrialized America and throughout the last several hundred MILLENNIA we were a communal species, it’s why we have so much contradictory hard-wiring that influences how we feel about our social standing, about other people’s feelings towards us, why there are so many people who latch onto authoritarians and fear strangers. These are ideas that run in direct opposition to “rugged individualism” and they are clear signs we’re not living the way we’ve been designed by literally millions of years of evolution.
You’re reciting history through rose colored glasses. The whole American dream has been to come here get some land of your own and go do your own thing.
Yeah, it’s amazing how many people think admitting to being an asshole is a flex.
It seems like Superman is the hero we deserve to fight this fascist trash sitting in the White House and beyond.
We need more of these positive representations, and god I’m so glad that almost every hateful right-winger cannot be creative with something other than hate.
This movie gives me hope, but I cannot speak for you.
we all think we deserve superman, but we only deserve freiza.
I haven’t seen the new Superman yet. I’m going on Tuesday cause that’s the cheap day where I live. I’m looking forward to it though. I found Captain America 4 cathartic, watching a black Captain America beat up and angry president. I think Superman will also be cathartic with what’s going on in America
Yeah it’s really wild
this is what those people want.
Why batman is the worst superhero, just another billionaire…
Ironman is another billionaire.
At least he invents his own stuff unlike batman.
Hollywood whitewashing billionaires…
We won’t see a poor superhero anytime soon
Kidness is woke. And you know, woke is bad because reasons.
For all the right wingers who think woke, pro immigrant superman is a new concept, reminder that this is a poster from the 1950s
Interesting article about the history of ‘socialist superman’ during the depression and the ideological evolution.
Interestingly enough zero black people depicted, or any other races but white - just one dude with a dark orange complexion like the Mango Mussolini.
Ethnicities. “Race” is a shit expression.
from this article:
Another story from 1953 called “People are People” has a Black youngster holding off an escaped lion until Superman can capture the animal. The owner of the circus the lion has escaped from wants to congratulate a white boy for his (nonexistent) heroism until Superman points out that the heroic young man was Black, and that the circus owner only wanted to congratulate the white boy because he was prejudiced.
I like the Nathan Fillion comment during some red carpet interview when the interviewer was trying to egg him into saying something that would get rage clicks from one side or the other of the current political trash fire.
“its just a movie guys”
Superman was not a brooding edge lord until Snyder’s take, and it is obvious that a lot of people don’t know that.
Captain Hammer best superhero, who’s with me on this
I so want a sequel to the sing along blog.
Dr Horrible has become obsessed with reviving Penny by turning back time. He doesn’t care how many people need to die, because he believes he can “fix” things. But the risk of time travel is the destruction of the universe…
Captain Hammer, now knowing what pain is, has two choices, grow and overcome the pain, or continue to hide away…
And Penny. The multiple zombies, and clones, and computer simulations of Penny that were never “right”. Well, she too has her parts to play.
The cinematic-repubLkan-universe kindness is weakness… Good doesn’t pretend to be evil. But evil does pretend to be good…ffs, 'the list is on my desk…"
I’m curious how this movie is, I’m used to the older ones and a show called Smallvile.
I did not know there was some anger about this Superman movie. Anyone could quick give me a small summary?
Though bit bummed out that they keep remaking movies and shows instead of making new ones.
I 100% expected this movie to suck and was even saying up to its release that it would flop.
I’ve seen all the Superman movies since the 80s. And all the TV shows.
This is my favorite movie.
This movie won me over when I saw Krypto and the fortress Bots. That’s the kind of stuff I’ve always wanted, but then idiots like Bryan Singer and Christopher Nolan (who clearly hate and are embarrassed by the source material) show up and want to make everything dark and “realistic” so characters like krypto don’t make it to the movies. Fuck realism, im watching a movie about a super alien fighting monsters, i don’t want realism in my comic book movies
I like realism. I also like fantasy. It’s interesting to see different people takes on these characters imo. I think it would be boring if every time they make a new Superman franchise it was exactly like the last one.
I don’t think Christopher Nolan wasn’t embarrassed by Batman and he only made a standalone trilogy. If he was embarrassed by Batman, he wouldn’t have included an homage to Adam West Batman.
Singer and Synder are just edgelords. You can find them at any comic book store arguing about something stupid, but tolerated longer then they should be because they spend the most money.
lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/48819895
Some conversations about it here
Anyone could quick give me a small summary?
James Gunn commented that Superman is an immigrant, and conservatives are losing their minds
He also renounced his US citizenship in Action Comics #900 like 15 years ago.
He also said that Superman is kind, and that bothered them too.
and conservatives are losing their minds
“he can’t be! He isn’t brown!”
But that’s nothing new. In Smallville there is one episode in which Clark said to his mother Martha that he is an illegal alien too.
People on Facebook are telling me he isn’t an immigrant, he’s from outer space. I’m so confused as to what they think an immigrant is
That’s all? That’s why they’re upset? Sigh, it’s as if someone accidentally farts and then they rage.
Isn’t he kinda right though? If I remember well, Superman came from another planet.
Stupidman.
Benny (“having a wet pussy is a sign of an infection, according to my doctor wife”) is just jealous of anyone who can pull off an acting career.
It still feels weird when people mention he has a wife.
Not just bcs he is misogynist, but he looks gay AF.
You mean 5’10” tall Ben Shapiro? The guy that never talks about his height and is actually 5’6”‽ The self confident alpha male? Yeah fuck this guy.
Does alpha male mean closet gay?
They don’t have a movie but they have a show. Highlander is the perfect ‘hero’ for these people. Only even the dullest dullard in the magat pile fails to recognize the character is evil but they never consider they are the baddies.
Highlander? I am not making the connection.
I fixed it. It was supposed to be Homelander.
I just came out of watching the new movie.
In the scene in which Clark gets interviewed, seen also in the trailer, it is transparent that Superman is with Francesca Albanese on a very current issue.
That’s what they are mad about.
I guess WB/DC is gonna fall out of grace.
That makes me more interesting in watching it honestly.
I am not an American and I have never been a Superman fan. I had fun, I felt represented, I was entertained, cannot wait for a sequel, am looking forward for Peacemaker S2 and whatever else is planned.
Warmly recommended. I really think all Americans should see it, as it may have a very good and stronger effect on them.
Conservatives are still mad that Superman fought the kkk.
If Superman were real, he 100% would have melted a lot of those racist fucks.
If you haven’t, I highly recommend reading “Superman Smashes the Klan.” An all-timer, based on a radio story from 1946, which was honestly its own kind of ballsy.
Which is admitting they side with the kkk, isn’t it
Well, yeah. They aren’t exactly trying to hide their white supremacist tendencies anymore.
Being selfless, kind and peaceful even when powerful quite literally goes against the Western ethos and to deny it is to deny not only history but contemporary Western societies as well (from the neverending colonization of the world, native American genocide included, to the recent “empathy is a sin” take, lol).
Did someone acctually expressed that thought?
Yeah, Dean Fucking Cain did.
I'm aware if him critiquing him being emigrant end "woke" - which is idiotic, sure. Not aware of him criticyzing Superman for being kind.
I’m out of the loop here. I’ve seen something about the most recent director or writer calling Superman an immigrant, and Dean Cain hating on that take and calling it “woke”. But I haven’t seen anyone expressing that Superman should not represent kindness.
FWIW if you are looking at reviews for an upcoming or recently released movies, and a lot of the comments are calling it “too political” or “woke”, give it a watch and come back with your own review. Those reviews are an indicator to me that it might be somewhat thought-provoking. (or also don’t watch if you have no interest in the subject)
But I haven’t seen anyone expressing that Superman should not represent kindness.
Isn’t the take more like “You think it’s super-human to be kind?!?”
What was that post from 4chan telling aliens to fuck off, and calling them space [REDACTED]s? Magats are so fucking stupid and evil, that they would tell Superman to fuck off.
Yes, people are angry that the director talked about Superman being an immigrant (even though he has been from another planet since the character was concieved) and they are also angry about the director saying Superman represents kindness, because apparently just being nice to people is woke now
Sadly not a new issue for Superman. His backstory was even retconned in the comics for a bit to have his spaceship give birth to him so he could be born in America.
Ok, I don’t think kindness is a bad thing but I do think the type of hero who’s all vanilla and too good to be true feels fake. I can’t relate to someone who always makes the right choice without fail and who has near unlimited power. I also think it makes for a more boring story. I like stories where the heroes aren’t perfect and need to learn to be better.
It doesn’t have to be boring to make a story about people who always makes the right choice it’s just more challenging to write. You need to write scenarios where it’s not clear what the ethically correct choice is and have the the hero have to figure that out.
A large part of Star Trek (at least back when they had good writers) revolves around that. In fact movies like Captain America Civil War also revolve around a bunch of people wanting to do the right thing, just not agreeing on what that is.
When the writing is bad, stories about a character being bad then learning to be good can be just as boring as a story about someone being good from the beginning. It’s just generally easier to write a story with character learning something because you don’t need to do all that much world building to create an interesting ethical dilemma.
I kind of agree. I enjoy Superman but also prefer heroes who are more morally grey. But my post isn’t about people who dislike Superman because he’s a Mary Sue, it’s about people who are angry that Superman values kindness
Probably the same idiots who thought Homelander was a hero.
Homelander is a hero, just not to the public.
You didn’t even upvote your own comment. That’s how stupid it is.
I’ve been wondering if there are Trump supporters watching The Handmaid’s Tale and siding with Gilead
Yes there are
too many words, not enough explosions
zack snyder and cristopher nolan turned goofy do-gooder superheroes into unfeeling federal agents and gods we should be subservient to
A. Not a shower thought.
B. literally people just complain to complain. The movie is like the highest rated superman film in a very long time. Man of steel was cool I guess. But this newest one is much much better.
A. I could definitely have this kind of thought when showering after an argument
I really don’t know how to convince people they should care about others.
I don’t know how to teach empathy.
haloduder@thelemmy.club 8 months ago
People are angry about this?
I didn’t even know he represented kindness.