How do we know signal isn’t also run by a techbro who just wants our data?
Signal – an ethical replacement for WhatsApp
Submitted 1 day ago by Pro@programming.dev to technology@lemmy.world
https://greenstarsproject.org/2025/06/15/signal-an-ethical-replacement-for-whatsapp/
Comments
But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
hackitfast@lemmy.world 2 hours ago
I don’t think that the founders are bad people. If you look at their history of work, they have done enormous amounts of work in the computer security sector. The founder, however, did run a cloud based WPA cracking service.
Meredith Whitaker, who is the president, used to work at Google doing research for “issues related to net neutrality measurement, privacy, security, and the social consequences of artificial intelligence”.
In 2018 she then staged walkouts at Google over concerns of sexual misconduct and citizen surveillance.
The people on Signal’s board seem to be trustworthy people with a pretty airtight background. You have to worry more about the mobile operating system compromising you than do you about Signal.
aidan@lemmy.world 1 hour ago
Does it really matter who made it if you can see the source code? You don’t have to trust them.
perestroika@lemm.ee 5 hours ago
I will use the opportunity to remind that Signal is operated by a non-profit in the jurisdiction called “the US”. This could have implications.
An anarchist option might be TOX. There is no single client, TOX is a protocol, you can choose from half a dozen clients. I personally use qTox.
Upside: no phone number required. No questions asked.
Downside: no servers to store and forward messages. You can talk if both parties are online.
aidan@lemmy.world 20 minutes ago
You can use Signal with a different client. Signal being operated within the US has no effect. As of now the jurisdictions that I know of to be worried about are:
Sweden, where a law is proposed to add an encryption backdoor
The EU, where leadership is pushing for an encryption backdoor
France arrested the founder of Telegram for using end to end encryption in Telegram
Australia in 2018 passed a law that enabled the government to require communications platforms add a backdoor for government decryption. The Director of the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (ASIO) said that “privacy is important but not absolute”. Which reminds me of “this is not about human rights, this is about human life.”
WhatsApp was previously suspended in Brazil for refusing to hand over decrypted messages.
China and Russia are very obvious problems. Here’s an easy one of many examples
The White House both in Trump’s first term and in Biden’s presidency were pro-encryption. Signal and Tor were US government funded projects. That’s not to say the US is great on encryption, and there have been laws in the past that did/were proposed to limit it. But, as of now, it seems that the US is the most hospitable jurisdiction for encrypted messaging non-profits.
perestroika@lemm.ee 3 minutes ago
You can use Signal with a different client.
Can you advise, which one would be a good one? I have had endless difficulties with Signal forcing upgrades on me and requiring to sign in on the phone, under threat of deactivating my account (I use it on a PC).
I actually use Signal, it’s just misbehaving a lot recently.
lmuel@sopuli.xyz 4 hours ago
Well yeah we could also use Briar or whatever… but would your grandma?
h0p3@lemmy.zip 4 hours ago
Hell yeah. Tox continues to rock. If anyone wants to chat, HMU, here’s my key:
fdd7005639c618263ab2eedab974f7576c7c0ded6217eed9e9dc0344c622e72aeef7055f8b4d
xeekei@lemmy.zip 1 hour ago
Not sure if you’re actually sincere or are sarcastically making fun of Tox’s onboarding. That’s a long key.
raynethackery@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
TIL I have no family I care to keep in touch with and I have no friends.
falynns@lemmy.world 8 hours ago
Humans are too stupid to switch from convenience to slightly less convenience even if they get privacy for free. Any amount of discomfort is too much and changing an app is basically death.
Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub 7 hours ago
They see no value in it. They don’t see that privacy is proactive measure that can protect you.
On Facebook, especially in my family, accounts get lost and hacked. One fine day, it might be someone with more influence in the family who’s attacker might make off with stolen bank information or passwords.
but “that’ll never happen”, right?
Humanius@lemmy.world 1 day ago
After Trump was elected and inaugurated, Signal has finally been gaining some steam here in the Netherlands.
Its still an American company, so its not ideal. But it’s still significantly better better than letting Facebook have control over the most commonly used chat app.
WhatsApp needs to go and Signal is the most likely way in which we can achieve thatuniquethrowagay@feddit.org 37 minutes ago
Signal is based in America but it’s a non profit organization, not a company. Important difference
ZMoney@lemmy.world 5 hours ago
America is not a monolith. Signal’s developers are very much aware of the risks of operating there and probably already have several escape plans given recent developments. I also think five-eyes probably has access but getting it might be computationally expensive.
viking@piefed.ca 1 day ago
There is threema, a Swiss messenger that gained some popularity earlier since they had end to end encryption before whatsapp.
Unfortunately the source code is not open (even though they do get annual audits with public reports), and the client costs 3 EUR or something (once).
Humanius@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Yeah, but Threema has basically no momentum behind it at all at this point.
I’m putting my social capital behind the option that currently stands the most chance of beating out Whatsappphilpo@feddit.org 1 day ago
And Switzerlands records in terms of privacy sadly is far worse than most people think - even with the last attack being repelled.
Matrix (preferably on a non-matrix.org instance) currently is the preferable non US and privacy friendly way.
RollForInitiative@feddit.org 1 day ago
They also offer Threema Libre on F-Droid for all us folks who degoogled their phone
sqgl@sh.itjust.works 14 hours ago
Venator@lemmy.nz 23 hours ago
Until Facebook buys them like they did with WhatsApp…?
Kualdir@piefed.social 1 day ago
Sadly many still don't want to switch. My most active chats are in signal now but the large majority of chats are still on whatsapp
tux0r@feddit.org 1 day ago
If you leave WhatsApp, your chats will usually follow.
hansolo@lemmy.today 1 day ago
It’s ethical because it runs on donations and has a non-profit business model.
Meta likely spends at least $1 billion a year running WhatsApp.
Please donate to Signal of you use it.
FireIced@lemmy.super.ynh.fr 7 hours ago
SimpleX as well!
noverby@lemmy.world 4 hours ago
The founder of SimpleX is out of his mind. Check yourself: xcancel.com/epoberezkin
Yaky@slrpnk.net 6 hours ago
IMO the best on-boarding I have seen in a chat app. Just scan each other’s QR codes or click a link. No account management because ID is unique to each conversation.
Signal and WhatsApp need a phone number, Matrix/Element is needlessly messy, XMPP/Conversations is sensible IIRC (ID + password)
declanruediger@aussie.zone 5 hours ago
Just got the app. Really like the idea!
Jaberw0cky@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
My wishlist is an app which is not linked to a phone number, is multi platform and has a web app. It should be none US and open source. That isn’t too many requirements and yet nothing seems to full fit the bill? Anyway good luck trying to get school parent’s groups to use something other than WhatsApp.
amzd@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
psycotica0@lemmy.ca 6 hours ago
smiletolerantly@awful.systems 7 hours ago
Matrix fits the bill.
Unless you don’t like the federated nature.
ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk 9 hours ago
I would like nothing more, but so few of my contact group are willing to switch away… despite all of Meta’s bullshit. I resent being made to use it whilst their AI/ads encroach further and further.
Arcane2077@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
I like Signal. I even got all my close friends and family on it, specifically to message me because I won’t use whatsapp. The PIN reminders are annoying it enough to be legitimately holding it back from mass appeal imho
Typotyper@sh.itjust.works 1 day ago
Turn them off
bimbimboy@lemmy.eco.br 1 day ago
The fact that it’s opt-out is already a reason to push people away from the app
mintiefresh@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
Wish more of my contact list would switch over to Signal. It’s nearly the same. I don’t see why it’s so hard for some people to just start using Signal instead of WhatsApp.
Oh well.
Kekzkrieger@feddit.org 1 day ago
Because people are beyond stupid. “i dont want to download another app” - while having an app for almost every other store and bullshit game and whatever
victorz@lemmy.world 1 day ago
I think what they really mean is “I don’t want another account”.
anachrohack@lemmy.world 1 day ago
My dad won’t switch from Facebook messenger so now we have to talk via unencrypted sms
Scolding7300@lemmy.world 16 hours ago
“But why, everyone is on WhatsApp”, and also a lot of businesses. “Privacy? I’ve got nothing to hide, what are they gonna do eith my info?”
Allah@lemm.ee 10 hours ago
groups/channels?
meliaesc@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
I tried switching my family over, but being unable to install it on a second device or tablet was a deal breaker.
Kevnyon@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
I wish I could do this, but trying to convince people to ditch an app they’ve never had problems with and where they all have their family, friends, work groups and school groups already mashed together, how do you convince them? Its not even about me convincing my friends or family, its about everyone else doing the same and when everyone has so many contacts in WhatsApp, that number starts to snowball real quick. Its just not feasible to try and explain this to someone who literally doesn’t care. I mean even though I myself know what Meta is and how Zuck is complete asshole, I still can’t switch off of WhatsApp because nobody I know is on Signal and I’d just be alone there. What’s the point? WhatsApp is pretty much the first app anyone installs on their phone (regardless of platform), they’re not gonna switch now.
orgrinrt@lemmy.world 13 hours ago
Well, just an anecdote:
I simply deleted my WhatsApp and moved to signal. Just did it.
People installed the app, at least the ones that cared about staying in touch. Which was most everyone I cared about staying in touch with. A few of my friend groups also moved the group chat to signal, though all of them do have other ones with the people who didn’t care enough to move too, but I hear it isn’t that big a deal, they had multiple groups before and will have in future, doesn’t really feel like any extra hassle they say.
It’s been fine. No problems. I’ve had more trouble trying to explain to my extended family why I’m no longer posting on instagram. Those I never had in WhatsApp either back in the day, so they “stayed in touch” by watching my pictures I suppose. But I just consistently tell people they can reach me always via signal or plain old sms.
I guess the biggest thing to be scared about would be fomo for most, but I don’t really care enough, I’ve got so much going on already that it’s more of a blessing that I don’t have to be involved in every conversation or meme sharing or whatever.
It really gets so easy after simply switching. Just do it and that’s that. The people worth anything come with you, it’s just another app and another group chat or personal chat. Most already have discord and the meta messenger whatever its name is these days anyway. I know zero people with only one messenger/chat app and unsplintered groups across them. It’s not a big chore, and if it is, there’s always sms.
ElcidBarrett@lemmy.world 6 hours ago
WhatsApp is pretty much the first app anyone installs on their phone
Is this really the case?
Maybe it’s a regional thing. I’m in the northeast US, and nearly everyone I know uses Facebook Messenger as their main form of communication, even people who don’t touch Facebook at all. I hate Messenger for the same reasons that people hate WhatsApp, but I still have to use it because my entire social circle does. If I want to message someone outside Messenger without giving my phone number out, I use my Google Voice number.
I’ve only ever used WhatsApp to talk to work contacts overseas, and I’ve only ever used Signal to talk to paranoid drug dealers, which is a use case that’s mostly been replaced by Telegram now.
bystander@lemmy.ca 1 hour ago
Outside of North America, most other countries’ use WhatsApp as a choice for personal and business uses is WhatsApp. Rest are mostly dominated by Facebook messenger. Excluding China which has WeChat domestically.
How Meta was ever allowed to buy WhatsApp without triggering anti-trust laws is beyond me.
ieGod@lemmy.zip 17 hours ago
Yep. I know the details. I’m tech savvy enough, but I use what my contacts use, and I’m not leaving WhatsApp. Same goes for youtube. The content I consume is there. There is no suitable alternative until the content creators switch. It’s not really about the technology at all.
oakward@feddit.org 16 hours ago
Just ditch WhatsApp. Don’t give in to social pressure to install malware on your phone
echodot@feddit.uk 6 hours ago
The problem is there’s no one on signal that I want to talk to. So “just ditch the app” isn’t actually helpful.
mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone 1 day ago
Proprietary servers is still proprietary software
Humanius@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Don’t let perfection stand in the way of an improvement
rfr_Foglia@feddit.it 1 day ago
I agree and it would be much better if people would use Signal instead of WhatsApp, but I think there’s still one problem.
Due to how messaging platforms work, every time you switch you lose pretty much everything (messages, media, etc) This makes switching very hard even for a nerd like me, because if Signal is not “perfect” it means that I will have to switch again at some point and lose everything again.
thedruid@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Be careful with that ol’ Chestnut. Circumstances may dictate perfection, where less than such may be catastrophic.
Armand1@lemmy.world 20 hours ago
The exit plan from WhatsApp is quite simple. Start by installing Signal and setting it up – it takes only a couple of minutes. Then, resume any WhatsApp conversations on Signal if that person is already a Signal user. If they are not, then switch to regular text messaging and gently suggest to that person to switch over to Signal.
Sadly for me, this doesn’t really work for some relatives as
- They live abroad and the cost of sending text messages abroad is not insignificant
- Some are so tech un-savvy that even installing a new app by themselves is too much.
All I can do for those relatives is to leave WhatsApp installed but take away basically every permission I can, including running in the background.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip 20 hours ago
They live abroad and the cost of sending text messages abroad is not insignificant
Signal is free just like whats app. For text, calls, and video. So that isn’t a problem.
I too have friends and family in different countries, one of which is crazy about whatsapp. I simply tell them this is how we are going to do things now, and walk them through it. It is not hard. If they can’t do it, well then we don’t need to communicate this way. Whatsapp is not an option. It is that simple.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip 20 hours ago
They live abroad and the cost of sending text messages abroad is not insignificant
Signal is free just like whats app. For text, calls, and video.
InfiniteHench@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
How did they get WhatsApp installed? Is a FaceTime or other video option available? Never give up, never surrender
Armand1@lemmy.world 9 hours ago
I was with them helping them out. For reasons I won’t discuss here I won’t be able to visit them anymore, so that avenue is gone 😞.
arin@lemmy.world 1 day ago
A truly ethical replacement would not need a phone number
vga@sopuli.xyz 1 day ago
And would have FOSS implementations of reference server & client + an openly specified protocol.
Like Matrix.
Flipper@feddit.org 1 day ago
Matrix still has it’s problems. All the meta data is still saved on every server permanently.
There is still space to improve from there.
cupcakezealot@piefed.blahaj.zone 1 day ago
signal not being on fdroid is a strike against them
maxo@feddit.org 12 hours ago
I will switch to signal when I can avoid installing stuff on bunch of my devices. Until web version is available, sorry it hard for me to switch and for me to convince other people to switch.
peteyestee@feddit.org 14 hours ago
I don’t believe in signal.
network_switch@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
Ya it’d be better if it didn’t require a phone number but it’s a solid start as it’s build up a user base over the past decade. Matrix is good but I know far less people that use it and it’ll be a long time of growing with nerdy/geeky communities before it starts getting more mainstream users
adbenitez@lemmy.ml 9 hours ago
so a centralized American messenger enshitified, lets switch to the next centralized American messenger, it surely will not enshitify in the future, lets ignore the actual problem, what could go wrong
rdri@lemmy.world 18 hours ago
I can’t call ethical an app that relies on Electron.
mio@lemmy.mio19.uk 1 day ago
How about matrix?
eodur@lemmy.world 1 day ago
How about Delta Chat? At least as secure as Signal, open source, and decentralized.
MITM0@lemmy.world 1 day ago
Nah, that would be Matrix, XMPP, DeltaChat or SimpleX
herseycokguzelolacak@lemmy.ml 1 day ago
I don’t use Signal because they don’t release the app in F-Droid. Signal devs refure to release the app outside of Google Play Store, which is very evil.
Jack_Burton@lemmy.ca 1 day ago
diealex@lemmy.world 1 day ago
No. XMPP would be the best choice.
Netrunner@programming.dev 1 day ago
For now anyways lol
gamer@lemm.ee 31 minutes ago
Anyone know why the Signal app isn’t available on F-Droid? Isn’t it supposed to be open source?