Don’t ask me for a phone number and I’ll use it.
Signal – an ethical replacement for WhatsApp
Submitted 9 months ago by Pro@programming.dev to technology@lemmy.world
https://greenstarsproject.org/2025/06/15/signal-an-ethical-replacement-for-whatsapp/
Comments
ikidd@lemmy.world 9 months ago
tym@lemmy.world 9 months ago
The irony of you posting this on lemmy, which won’t allow posting from a VPN or masked email addresses is not lost on me.
The amount of hoops I had to jump through to make this comment and maintain some semblance of privacy is infuriating but at least it’s not reddit I guess?
But do go on about your security standards…
RalphFurley@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Duck duck Go VPN connection here
Toga65@lemmy.world 9 months ago
If you’re reading this comment, I posted it from proton vpn
ikidd@lemmy.world 9 months ago
It doesn’t matter if you hide the number; at some point they deanonymized you when you signed up.
Want to be a dick about “hoops”? Get a number that isn’t traceable. It can be done, but it’s tough. I doubt its possible in the countries that really need anonymity of association.
blujan@sopuli.xyz 9 months ago
You’re using the wrong lemmy server then, no problem with mine
deltapi@lemmy.world 9 months ago
When did WhatsApp start allowing signups without a phone number?
ikidd@lemmy.world 9 months ago
No clue. Never even tried to use it since it’s a Meta product. I was referring to Signal’s phone # requirement being a non-starter.
Steven_T_Baxter@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Compare with Zangi Private Messenger. Yes, every country who has jurisdiction has access. Just ask yourself, which gov do I trust more with my private chats?
mrodri89@lemmy.zip 9 months ago
I got tired of asking my family to download yet another app. Went iPhone at this point.
96VXb9ktTjFnRi@feddit.nl 9 months ago
How many apps did you ask them to download?
Personally, I only asked for this one, and everyone who is of importance to me chose to do it.
mrodri89@lemmy.zip 9 months ago
I went from Telegram to WhatsApp. That was enough to annoy my people.
You know and I was the biggest smack talker of apple and I got the 16 pro just to get encryption when talking to my mom and husband. I can see why people like these things.
But it does feel very basic coming from a long time Samsung user.
gamer@lemm.ee 9 months ago
Anyone know why the Signal app isn’t available on F-Droid? Isn’t it supposed to be open source?
oxygenating@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
You can install and update it through Obtainium directly from GitHub.
notarobot@lemm.ee 9 months ago
I think it’s by request. the fdroid team build every single app in their repos which means that they are not always fully up to date, so signal argues that whenever they need to push a security release people on froid would take forever to update.
I think I’ve had this issue with simplex. I’ve had to wait over 2 weeks for an update. That’s why I’m using obtanium for it instead
tincansandtwine@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Molly is in f-droid, though it’s technically third party. Looks identical though.
ballgoat@lemmy.zip 9 months ago
I was looking at Molly.im and it has its own f-droid repo. There are two options: with and without Google servicios.
But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world 9 months ago
How do we know signal isn’t also run by a techbro who just wants our data?
aidan@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Does it really matter who made it if you can see the source code? You don’t have to trust them.
ballgoat@lemmy.zip 9 months ago
That’s kind of a core tenet of libre/open software, innit? Independently verifiable software that you can change at your pleasure.
hackitfast@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I don’t think that the founders are bad people. If you look at their history of work, they have done enormous amounts of work in the computer security sector. The founder, however, did run a cloud based WPA cracking service.
Meredith Whitaker, who is the president, used to work at Google doing research for “issues related to net neutrality measurement, privacy, security, and the social consequences of artificial intelligence”.
In 2018 she then staged walkouts at Google over concerns of sexual misconduct and citizen surveillance.
The people on Signal’s board seem to be trustworthy people with a pretty airtight background. You have to worry more about the mobile operating system compromising you than do you about Signal.
raynethackery@lemmy.world 9 months ago
TIL I have no family I care to keep in touch with and I have no friends.
perestroika@lemm.ee 9 months ago
I will use the opportunity to remind that Signal is operated by a non-profit in the jurisdiction called “the US”. This could have implications.
An anarchist option might be TOX. There is no single client, TOX is a protocol, you can choose from half a dozen clients. I personally use qTox.
Upside: no phone number required. No questions asked.
Downside: no servers to store and forward messages. You can talk if both parties are online.
aidan@lemmy.world 9 months ago
You can use Signal with a different client. Signal being operated within the US has no effect. As of now the jurisdictions that I know of to be worried about are:
Sweden, where a law is proposed to add an encryption backdoor
The EU, where leadership is pushing for an encryption backdoor
France arrested the founder of Telegram for using end to end encryption in Telegram
Australia in 2018 passed a law that enabled the government to require communications platforms add a backdoor for government decryption. The Director of the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (ASIO) said that “privacy is important but not absolute”. Which reminds me of “this is not about human rights, this is about human life.”
WhatsApp was previously suspended in Brazil for refusing to hand over decrypted messages.
China and Russia are very obvious problems. Here’s an easy one of many examples
The White House both in Trump’s first term and in Biden’s presidency were pro-encryption. Signal and Tor were US government funded projects. That’s not to say the US is great on encryption, and there have been laws in the past that did/were proposed to limit it. But, as of now, it seems that the US is the most hospitable jurisdiction for encrypted messaging non-profits.
perestroika@lemm.ee 9 months ago
You can use Signal with a different client.
Can you advise, which one would be a good one? I have had endless difficulties with Signal forcing upgrades on me and requiring to sign in on the phone, under threat of deactivating my account (I use it on a PC).
I actually use Signal, it’s just misbehaving a lot recently.
h0p3@lemmy.zip 9 months ago
[deleted]xeekei@lemmy.zip 9 months ago
Not sure if you’re actually sincere or are sarcastically making fun of Tox’s onboarding. That’s a long key.
lmuel@sopuli.xyz 9 months ago
Well yeah we could also use Briar or whatever… but would your grandma?
PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk 9 months ago
i’ve only managed to get some of my fam to move over to signal. the other half full on refused
FireIced@lemmy.super.ynh.fr 9 months ago
SimpleX as well!
noverby@lemmy.world 9 months ago
The founder of SimpleX is out of his mind. Check yourself: xcancel.com/epoberezkin
FireIced@lemmy.super.ynh.fr 9 months ago
It doesn’t look good indeed…
Sadly, that’s what we have to work with. The app is pretty good though
declanruediger@aussie.zone 9 months ago
Just got the app. Really like the idea!
Yaky@slrpnk.net 9 months ago
IMO the best on-boarding I have seen in a chat app. Just scan each other’s QR codes or click a link. No account management because ID is unique to each conversation.
Signal and WhatsApp need a phone number, Matrix/Element is needlessly messy, XMPP/Conversations is sensible IIRC (ID + password)
falynns@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Humans are too stupid to switch from convenience to slightly less convenience even if they get privacy for free. Any amount of discomfort is too much and changing an app is basically death.
Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub 9 months ago
They see no value in it. They don’t see that privacy is proactive measure that can protect you.
On Facebook, especially in my family, accounts get lost and hacked. One fine day, it might be someone with more influence in the family who’s attacker might make off with stolen bank information or passwords.
but “that’ll never happen”, right?
Jaberw0cky@lemmy.world 9 months ago
My wishlist is an app which is not linked to a phone number, is multi platform and has a web app. It should be none US and open source. That isn’t too many requirements and yet nothing seems to full fit the bill? Anyway good luck trying to get school parent’s groups to use something other than WhatsApp.
ikidd@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Matrix and Element. Run your own server if you want or use a server that’s not in the US.
amzd@lemmy.world 9 months ago
psycotica0@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
smiletolerantly@awful.systems 9 months ago
Matrix fits the bill.
Unless you don’t like the federated nature.
adbenitez@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
so a centralized American messenger enshitified, lets switch to the next centralized American messenger, it surely will not enshitify in the future, lets ignore the actual problem, what could go wrong
ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk 9 months ago
I would like nothing more, but so few of my contact group are willing to switch away… despite all of Meta’s bullshit. I resent being made to use it whilst their AI/ads encroach further and further.
maxo@feddit.org 9 months ago
I will switch to signal when I can avoid installing stuff on bunch of my devices. Until web version is available, sorry it hard for me to switch and for me to convince other people to switch.
peteyestee@feddit.org 9 months ago
I don’t believe in signal.
buttnugget@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Interesting phrasing. How so?
Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub 9 months ago
I believe in it,… for now.
I moved my family group to xmpp to have more personal control over our chats. Signal seems benevolent, but I’ve seen this play out before. Will it stay that way? We treat online forums with the idea that federstion works to stop enshittificstion. I believe XMPP is a good model for federating secure chatrooms for the same reason: People should control the voices of the people, not companies.
psud@aussie.zone 9 months ago
I use it mostly for family chats, I got the extended family to use it rather than Facebook Messenger
What makes you not trust signal?
Kevnyon@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I wish I could do this, but trying to convince people to ditch an app they’ve never had problems with and where they all have their family, friends, work groups and school groups already mashed together, how do you convince them? Its not even about me convincing my friends or family, its about everyone else doing the same and when everyone has so many contacts in WhatsApp, that number starts to snowball real quick. Its just not feasible to try and explain this to someone who literally doesn’t care. I mean even though I myself know what Meta is and how Zuck is complete asshole, I still can’t switch off of WhatsApp because nobody I know is on Signal and I’d just be alone there. What’s the point? WhatsApp is pretty much the first app anyone installs on their phone (regardless of platform), they’re not gonna switch now.
ElcidBarrett@lemmy.world 9 months ago
WhatsApp is pretty much the first app anyone installs on their phone
Is this really the case?
Maybe it’s a regional thing. I’m in the northeast US, and nearly everyone I know uses Facebook Messenger as their main form of communication, even people who don’t touch Facebook at all. I hate Messenger for the same reasons that people hate WhatsApp, but I still have to use it because my entire social circle does. If I want to message someone outside Messenger without giving my phone number out, I use my Google Voice number.
I’ve only ever used WhatsApp to talk to work contacts overseas, and I’ve only ever used Signal to talk to paranoid drug dealers, which is a use case that’s mostly been replaced by Telegram now.
Kevnyon@lemmy.world 9 months ago
In my region in Europe, it really is. EVERYONE uses WhatsApp. I’m not sure the last time I saw someone use SMS, its all WhatsApp. iOS, Android, its all there.
bystander@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
Outside of North America, most other countries’ use WhatsApp as a choice for personal and business uses is WhatsApp. Rest are mostly dominated by Facebook messenger. Excluding China which has WeChat domestically.
How Meta was ever allowed to buy WhatsApp without triggering anti-trust laws is beyond me.
orgrinrt@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Well, just an anecdote:
I simply deleted my WhatsApp and moved to signal. Just did it.
People installed the app, at least the ones that cared about staying in touch. Which was most everyone I cared about staying in touch with. A few of my friend groups also moved the group chat to signal, though all of them do have other ones with the people who didn’t care enough to move too, but I hear it isn’t that big a deal, they had multiple groups before and will have in future, doesn’t really feel like any extra hassle they say.
It’s been fine. No problems. I’ve had more trouble trying to explain to my extended family why I’m no longer posting on instagram. Those I never had in WhatsApp either back in the day, so they “stayed in touch” by watching my pictures I suppose. But I just consistently tell people they can reach me always via signal or plain old sms.
I guess the biggest thing to be scared about would be fomo for most, but I don’t really care enough, I’ve got so much going on already that it’s more of a blessing that I don’t have to be involved in every conversation or meme sharing or whatever.
It really gets so easy after simply switching. Just do it and that’s that. The people worth anything come with you, it’s just another app and another group chat or personal chat. Most already have discord and the meta messenger whatever its name is these days anyway. I know zero people with only one messenger/chat app and unsplintered groups across them. It’s not a big chore, and if it is, there’s always sms.
Kevnyon@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I guess the biggest thing to be scared about would be fomo for most
I don’t mind missing out on some things, but I would mind missing out on literally all of the things. Everyone is on WhatsApp and trying to convince people to switch to a different app when, from their perspective, their current app has over 99% uptime, their kids, their family, their extended family, their friends, all are on WhatsApp. Its the same for me, its everyone. Its just a different situation in Europe.
oakward@feddit.org 9 months ago
Just ditch WhatsApp. Don’t give in to social pressure to install malware on your phone
Kevnyon@lemmy.world 9 months ago
There’s nobody on Signal, that’s the problem. If I want to miss out on all of my group conversations, work conversations, messages between myself and others, then yeah, I can switch. But if I want to receive any messages at all, I have to keep WhatsApp installed.
echodot@feddit.uk 9 months ago
The problem is there’s no one on signal that I want to talk to. So “just ditch the app” isn’t actually helpful.
ieGod@lemmy.zip 9 months ago
Yep. I know the details. I’m tech savvy enough, but I use what my contacts use, and I’m not leaving WhatsApp. Same goes for youtube. The content I consume is there. There is no suitable alternative until the content creators switch. It’s not really about the technology at all.
rdri@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I can’t call ethical an app that relies on Electron.
OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
Weird goalpost but Ok
ddash@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 months ago
I think it is more of a hill than a goalpost.
Armand1@lemmy.world 9 months ago
The exit plan from WhatsApp is quite simple. Start by installing Signal and setting it up – it takes only a couple of minutes. Then, resume any WhatsApp conversations on Signal if that person is already a Signal user. If they are not, then switch to regular text messaging and gently suggest to that person to switch over to Signal.
Sadly for me, this doesn’t really work for some relatives as
- They live abroad and the cost of sending text messages abroad is not insignificant
- Some are so tech un-savvy that even installing a new app by themselves is too much.
All I can do for those relatives is to leave WhatsApp installed but take away basically every permission I can, including running in the background.
InfiniteHench@lemmy.world 9 months ago
How did they get WhatsApp installed? Is a FaceTime or other video option available? Never give up, never surrender
Armand1@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I was with them helping them out. For reasons I won’t discuss here I won’t be able to visit them anymore, so that avenue is gone 😞.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip 9 months ago
They live abroad and the cost of sending text messages abroad is not insignificant
Signal is free just like whats app. For text, calls, and video. So that isn’t a problem.
I too have friends and family in different countries, one of which is crazy about whatsapp. I simply tell them this is how we are going to do things now, and walk them through it. It is not hard. If they can’t do it, well then we don’t need to communicate this way. Whatsapp is not an option. It is that simple.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip 9 months ago
They live abroad and the cost of sending text messages abroad is not insignificant
Signal is free just like whats app. For text, calls, and video.
mintiefresh@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
Wish more of my contact list would switch over to Signal. It’s nearly the same. I don’t see why it’s so hard for some people to just start using Signal instead of WhatsApp.
Oh well.
Allah@lemm.ee 9 months ago
groups/channels?
diealex@lemmy.world 9 months ago
No. XMPP would be the best choice.
network_switch@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
Ya it’d be better if it didn’t require a phone number but it’s a solid start as it’s build up a user base over the past decade. Matrix is good but I know far less people that use it and it’ll be a long time of growing with nerdy/geeky communities before it starts getting more mainstream users
MITM0@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Nah, that would be Matrix, XMPP, DeltaChat or SimpleX
Jack_Burton@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
eodur@lemmy.world 9 months ago
How about Delta Chat? At least as secure as Signal, open source, and decentralized.
romantired@shibanu.app 9 months ago
telegram much better
arin@lemmy.world 9 months ago
A truly ethical replacement would not need a phone number
JoMiran@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
Wasn’t WhatsApp essentially built from Signal’s base protocol anyway? Why use the meta clone when the original is right there?
herseycokguzelolacak@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
I don’t use Signal because they don’t release the app in F-Droid. Signal devs refure to release the app outside of Google Play Store, which is very evil.
mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 months ago
Proprietary servers is still proprietary software
Arcane2077@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
I like Signal. I even got all my close friends and family on it, specifically to message me because I won’t use whatsapp. The PIN reminders are annoying it enough to be legitimately holding it back from mass appeal imho
mundane@feddit.nu 9 months ago
When they dropped sms support I was no longer able to convince people to migrate to signal.
Before I could make the argument that you need one sms app anyway so that app might just as well be Signal instead of the one that comes preloaded with your phone. That way people would gradually get more and more secure messaging as time went on. When sms support was dropped, Signal could not replace an existing app and adding another messing app is much less appealing than replacing one.