It’s ethical because it runs on donations and has a non-profit business model.
Meta likely spends at least $1 billion a year running WhatsApp.
Please donate to Signal of you use it.
Signal – an ethical replacement for WhatsApp
Submitted 3 weeks ago by Pro@programming.dev to technology@lemmy.world
https://greenstarsproject.org/2025/06/15/signal-an-ethical-replacement-for-whatsapp/
Comments
hansolo@lemmy.today 3 weeks ago
Arcane2077@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
I like Signal. I even got all my close friends and family on it, specifically to message me because I won’t use whatsapp. The PIN reminders are annoying it enough to be legitimately holding it back from mass appeal imho
Typotyper@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Turn them off
bimbimboy@lemmy.eco.br 3 weeks ago
The fact that it’s opt-out is already a reason to push people away from the app
mintiefresh@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
Wish more of my contact list would switch over to Signal. It’s nearly the same. I don’t see why it’s so hard for some people to just start using Signal instead of WhatsApp.
Oh well.
Kekzkrieger@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
Because people are beyond stupid. “i dont want to download another app” - while having an app for almost every other store and bullshit game and whatever
victorz@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I think what they really mean is “I don’t want another account”.
anachrohack@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
My dad won’t switch from Facebook messenger so now we have to talk via unencrypted sms
Scolding7300@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
“But why, everyone is on WhatsApp”, and also a lot of businesses. “Privacy? I’ve got nothing to hide, what are they gonna do eith my info?”
meliaesc@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I tried switching my family over, but being unable to install it on a second device or tablet was a deal breaker.
Allah@lemm.ee 2 weeks ago
groups/channels?
mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
Proprietary servers is still proprietary software
Humanius@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Don’t let perfection stand in the way of an improvement
rfr_Foglia@feddit.it 3 weeks ago
I agree and it would be much better if people would use Signal instead of WhatsApp, but I think there’s still one problem.
Due to how messaging platforms work, every time you switch you lose pretty much everything (messages, media, etc) This makes switching very hard even for a nerd like me, because if Signal is not “perfect” it means that I will have to switch again at some point and lose everything again.
thedruid@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Be careful with that ol’ Chestnut. Circumstances may dictate perfection, where less than such may be catastrophic.
cupcakezealot@piefed.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
signal not being on fdroid is a strike against them
qaz@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
It is though. I currently use Signal installed through F-Droid.
timbuck2themoon@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Fair. There is Molly on fdroid if you like.
AmbiguousProps@lemmy.today 3 weeks ago
Molly is great.
Sir_Kevin@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Signal is on F-Droid.
CubitOom@infosec.pub 3 weeks ago
You can always install a release of any Android APK from a git repo using obtainium.
arin@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
A truly ethical replacement would not need a phone number
vga@sopuli.xyz 3 weeks ago
And would have FOSS implementations of reference server & client + an openly specified protocol.
Like Matrix.
Flipper@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
Matrix still has it’s problems. All the meta data is still saved on every server permanently.
There is still space to improve from there.
ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net 3 weeks ago
And it would have as much spam as email.
falynns@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Humans are too stupid to switch from convenience to slightly less convenience even if they get privacy for free. Any amount of discomfort is too much and changing an app is basically death.
Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub 2 weeks ago
They see no value in it. They don’t see that privacy is proactive measure that can protect you.
On Facebook, especially in my family, accounts get lost and hacked. One fine day, it might be someone with more influence in the family who’s attacker might make off with stolen bank information or passwords.
but “that’ll never happen”, right?
Kevnyon@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I wish I could do this, but trying to convince people to ditch an app they’ve never had problems with and where they all have their family, friends, work groups and school groups already mashed together, how do you convince them? Its not even about me convincing my friends or family, its about everyone else doing the same and when everyone has so many contacts in WhatsApp, that number starts to snowball real quick. Its just not feasible to try and explain this to someone who literally doesn’t care. I mean even though I myself know what Meta is and how Zuck is complete asshole, I still can’t switch off of WhatsApp because nobody I know is on Signal and I’d just be alone there. What’s the point? WhatsApp is pretty much the first app anyone installs on their phone (regardless of platform), they’re not gonna switch now.
orgrinrt@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Well, just an anecdote:
I simply deleted my WhatsApp and moved to signal. Just did it.
People installed the app, at least the ones that cared about staying in touch. Which was most everyone I cared about staying in touch with. A few of my friend groups also moved the group chat to signal, though all of them do have other ones with the people who didn’t care enough to move too, but I hear it isn’t that big a deal, they had multiple groups before and will have in future, doesn’t really feel like any extra hassle they say.
It’s been fine. No problems. I’ve had more trouble trying to explain to my extended family why I’m no longer posting on instagram. Those I never had in WhatsApp either back in the day, so they “stayed in touch” by watching my pictures I suppose. But I just consistently tell people they can reach me always via signal or plain old sms.
I guess the biggest thing to be scared about would be fomo for most, but I don’t really care enough, I’ve got so much going on already that it’s more of a blessing that I don’t have to be involved in every conversation or meme sharing or whatever.
It really gets so easy after simply switching. Just do it and that’s that. The people worth anything come with you, it’s just another app and another group chat or personal chat. Most already have discord and the meta messenger whatever its name is these days anyway. I know zero people with only one messenger/chat app and unsplintered groups across them. It’s not a big chore, and if it is, there’s always sms.
Kevnyon@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I guess the biggest thing to be scared about would be fomo for most
I don’t mind missing out on some things, but I would mind missing out on literally all of the things. Everyone is on WhatsApp and trying to convince people to switch to a different app when, from their perspective, their current app has over 99% uptime, their kids, their family, their extended family, their friends, all are on WhatsApp. Its the same for me, its everyone. Its just a different situation in Europe.
ieGod@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Yep. I know the details. I’m tech savvy enough, but I use what my contacts use, and I’m not leaving WhatsApp. Same goes for youtube. The content I consume is there. There is no suitable alternative until the content creators switch. It’s not really about the technology at all.
oakward@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
Just ditch WhatsApp. Don’t give in to social pressure to install malware on your phone
echodot@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
The problem is there’s no one on signal that I want to talk to. So “just ditch the app” isn’t actually helpful.
Kevnyon@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
There’s nobody on Signal, that’s the problem. If I want to miss out on all of my group conversations, work conversations, messages between myself and others, then yeah, I can switch. But if I want to receive any messages at all, I have to keep WhatsApp installed.
ElcidBarrett@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
WhatsApp is pretty much the first app anyone installs on their phone
Is this really the case?
Maybe it’s a regional thing. I’m in the northeast US, and nearly everyone I know uses Facebook Messenger as their main form of communication, even people who don’t touch Facebook at all. I hate Messenger for the same reasons that people hate WhatsApp, but I still have to use it because my entire social circle does. If I want to message someone outside Messenger without giving my phone number out, I use my Google Voice number.
I’ve only ever used WhatsApp to talk to work contacts overseas, and I’ve only ever used Signal to talk to paranoid drug dealers, which is a use case that’s mostly been replaced by Telegram now.
bystander@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Outside of North America, most other countries’ use WhatsApp as a choice for personal and business uses is WhatsApp. Rest are mostly dominated by Facebook messenger. Excluding China which has WeChat domestically.
How Meta was ever allowed to buy WhatsApp without triggering anti-trust laws is beyond me.
Kevnyon@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
In my region in Europe, it really is. EVERYONE uses WhatsApp. I’m not sure the last time I saw someone use SMS, its all WhatsApp. iOS, Android, its all there.
Armand1@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
The exit plan from WhatsApp is quite simple. Start by installing Signal and setting it up – it takes only a couple of minutes. Then, resume any WhatsApp conversations on Signal if that person is already a Signal user. If they are not, then switch to regular text messaging and gently suggest to that person to switch over to Signal.
Sadly for me, this doesn’t really work for some relatives as
- They live abroad and the cost of sending text messages abroad is not insignificant
- Some are so tech un-savvy that even installing a new app by themselves is too much.
All I can do for those relatives is to leave WhatsApp installed but take away basically every permission I can, including running in the background.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
They live abroad and the cost of sending text messages abroad is not insignificant
Signal is free just like whats app. For text, calls, and video. So that isn’t a problem.
I too have friends and family in different countries, one of which is crazy about whatsapp. I simply tell them this is how we are going to do things now, and walk them through it. It is not hard. If they can’t do it, well then we don’t need to communicate this way. Whatsapp is not an option. It is that simple.
NewNewAugustEast@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
They live abroad and the cost of sending text messages abroad is not insignificant
Signal is free just like whats app. For text, calls, and video.
InfiniteHench@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
How did they get WhatsApp installed? Is a FaceTime or other video option available? Never give up, never surrender
Armand1@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I was with them helping them out. For reasons I won’t discuss here I won’t be able to visit them anymore, so that avenue is gone 😞.
perestroika@lemm.ee 2 weeks ago
I will use the opportunity to remind that Signal is operated by a non-profit in the jurisdiction called “the US”. This could have implications.
An anarchist option might be TOX. There is no single client, TOX is a protocol, you can choose from half a dozen clients. I personally use qTox.
Upside: no phone number required. No questions asked.
Downside: no servers to store and forward messages. You can talk if both parties are online.
aidan@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You can use Signal with a different client. Signal being operated within the US has no effect. As of now the jurisdictions that I know of to be worried about are:
Sweden, where a law is proposed to add an encryption backdoor
The EU, where leadership is pushing for an encryption backdoor
France arrested the founder of Telegram for using end to end encryption in Telegram
Australia in 2018 passed a law that enabled the government to require communications platforms add a backdoor for government decryption. The Director of the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation (ASIO) said that “privacy is important but not absolute”. Which reminds me of “this is not about human rights, this is about human life.”
WhatsApp was previously suspended in Brazil for refusing to hand over decrypted messages.
China and Russia are very obvious problems. Here’s an easy one of many examples
The White House both in Trump’s first term and in Biden’s presidency were pro-encryption. Signal and Tor were US government funded projects. That’s not to say the US is great on encryption, and there have been laws in the past that did/were proposed to limit it. But, as of now, it seems that the US is the most hospitable jurisdiction for encrypted messaging non-profits.
perestroika@lemm.ee 2 weeks ago
You can use Signal with a different client.
Can you advise, which one would be a good one? I have had endless difficulties with Signal forcing upgrades on me and requiring to sign in on the phone, under threat of deactivating my account (I use it on a PC).
I actually use Signal, it’s just misbehaving a lot recently.
lmuel@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Well yeah we could also use Briar or whatever… but would your grandma?
PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
i’ve only managed to get some of my fam to move over to signal. the other half full on refused
h0p3@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
[deleted]xeekei@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Not sure if you’re actually sincere or are sarcastically making fun of Tox’s onboarding. That’s a long key.
network_switch@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
Ya it’d be better if it didn’t require a phone number but it’s a solid start as it’s build up a user base over the past decade. Matrix is good but I know far less people that use it and it’ll be a long time of growing with nerdy/geeky communities before it starts getting more mainstream users
But_my_mom_says_im_cool@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
How do we know signal isn’t also run by a techbro who just wants our data?
hackitfast@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I don’t think that the founders are bad people. If you look at their history of work, they have done enormous amounts of work in the computer security sector. The founder, however, did run a cloud based WPA cracking service.
Meredith Whitaker, who is the president, used to work at Google doing research for “issues related to net neutrality measurement, privacy, security, and the social consequences of artificial intelligence”.
In 2018 she then staged walkouts at Google over concerns of sexual misconduct and citizen surveillance.
The people on Signal’s board seem to be trustworthy people with a pretty airtight background. You have to worry more about the mobile operating system compromising you than do you about Signal.
aidan@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Does it really matter who made it if you can see the source code? You don’t have to trust them.
ballgoat@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
That’s kind of a core tenet of libre/open software, innit? Independently verifiable software that you can change at your pleasure.
raynethackery@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
TIL I have no family I care to keep in touch with and I have no friends.
mio@lemmy.mio19.uk 3 weeks ago
How about matrix?
Jaberw0cky@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
My wishlist is an app which is not linked to a phone number, is multi platform and has a web app. It should be none US and open source. That isn’t too many requirements and yet nothing seems to full fit the bill? Anyway good luck trying to get school parent’s groups to use something other than WhatsApp.
ikidd@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Don’t ask me for a phone number and I’ll use it.
eodur@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
How about Delta Chat? At least as secure as Signal, open source, and decentralized.
ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
I would like nothing more, but so few of my contact group are willing to switch away… despite all of Meta’s bullshit. I resent being made to use it whilst their AI/ads encroach further and further.
MITM0@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Nah, that would be Matrix, XMPP, DeltaChat or SimpleX
herseycokguzelolacak@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
I don’t use Signal because they don’t release the app in F-Droid. Signal devs refure to release the app outside of Google Play Store, which is very evil.
rdri@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I can’t call ethical an app that relies on Electron.
FireIced@lemmy.super.ynh.fr 2 weeks ago
SimpleX as well!
maxo@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
I will switch to signal when I can avoid installing stuff on bunch of my devices. Until web version is available, sorry it hard for me to switch and for me to convince other people to switch.
peteyestee@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
I don’t believe in signal.
Jack_Burton@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
Netrunner@programming.dev 3 weeks ago
For now anyways lol
diealex@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
No. XMPP would be the best choice.
gamer@lemm.ee 2 weeks ago
Anyone know why the Signal app isn’t available on F-Droid? Isn’t it supposed to be open source?
Humanius@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
After Trump was elected and inaugurated, Signal has finally been gaining some steam here in the Netherlands.
Its still an American company, so its not ideal. But it’s still significantly better better than letting Facebook have control over the most commonly used chat app.
WhatsApp needs to go and Signal is the most likely way in which we can achieve that
viking@piefed.ca 3 weeks ago
There is threema, a Swiss messenger that gained some popularity earlier since they had end to end encryption before whatsapp.
Unfortunately the source code is not open (even though they do get annual audits with public reports), and the client costs 3 EUR or something (once).
Humanius@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Yeah, but Threema has basically no momentum behind it at all at this point.
I’m putting my social capital behind the option that currently stands the most chance of beating out Whatsapp
philpo@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
And Switzerlands records in terms of privacy sadly is far worse than most people think - even with the last attack being repelled.
Matrix (preferably on a non-matrix.org instance) currently is the preferable non US and privacy friendly way.
RollForInitiative@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
They also offer Threema Libre on F-Droid for all us folks who degoogled their phone
Venator@lemmy.nz 3 weeks ago
Until Facebook buys them like they did with WhatsApp…?
sqgl@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
Wrong.
threema.com/en/why-threema/open-source
Kualdir@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
Sadly many still don't want to switch. My most active chats are in signal now but the large majority of chats are still on whatsapp
tux0r@feddit.org 3 weeks ago
If you leave WhatsApp, your chats will usually follow.
uniquethrowagay@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
Signal is based in America but it’s a non profit organization, not a company. Important difference
Humanius@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
But being based in the United States it is still subject to American laws, and any potential American spying and embargoes.
ZMoney@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
America is not a monolith. Signal’s developers are very much aware of the risks of operating there and probably already have several escape plans given recent developments. I also think five-eyes probably has access but getting it might be computationally expensive.