Submitted 1 year ago by FlyingSquid@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
I wonder how many complaining actually read even this bland and uninformative article.
At issue I believe (because it is not stated, but discussed elsewhere in better venues) is that UK wants to be able to see inside encrypted comms and files, under the guise of CSAM detection. Apple is right to oppose it.
Arguments based on hypocrisy real or perceived in other venues (china) has nothing to do with this decision its just piss-taking. Give it a rest.
Other than their asinine charging cable/accessory situations I consistently find myself agreeing with Apple pretty much any time any government body or group is mad they won’t do something.
They’re generally on the wrong side of the battle for right to repair and removable batteries too.
But yeah, privacy they almost always have the right of it.
how do you reckon?
only time they have been on the consumer’s side was with regards to privacy, refusing to comply with the FBI and now this.
everything else they are pretty anti-consumer, off the top of my head
Requiring usb c was something I agreed with. But indeed many times apple has rightly fought for their userbase.
Remember how everyone kicked up a giant stink about apple adding “on device CSAM scanning when uploading photos to iCloud”?
They did that precisely because it would allow them to search for CSAM without giving up any privacy. As I said back when all that rage was happening, if apple don’t get to implement it this way you can be damn sure that the government is going to force them to implement CSAM scanning in a much more privacy-destroying way, and well here we are.
CSAM without giving up any privacy.
Hmmmm funny because security researchers said the opposite, I kinda believe them more?
Like the politicians would have cared. This is just a convenient excuse. Either they would have found another one or they would have said “we can’t trust Apple to scan for this material. The police has to do these scans!”
We were right to oppose it then and we are right to oppose it now.
CSAM, as defined by apple, SPOILER that could be anything, including, and I could rattle off names, anything that threatens the government or those who got their tendrils into it, if we, For example have authoritarians change us to be facist, or re-introduce slavery or segrogation. A mere picture of your bedroom or face could have a somthing in it that allows you to be put into a cohort for later use (legal or not)
Anything scanning messages or media on my device is an absolute NO if I don’t control it.
so basically apple doesn’t want government spyware on their phones
There’s legitimate criticism to be made for Apple, but this is something I really appreciate about them.
Walled garden aside, I think they do care about privacy and security.
It's their brand. And I'm glad it is. It's something Samsung can't copy (I presume because of the Google backbone) or attack.
(Written on a Samsung phone btw.)
I don’t know if they actually care, but I think they figured privacy was a great niche to jump in when they started losing more and more market share to android
Yup. They have had issues (think CSAM scandal), but they’re slowly earning back my trust. I’m still a bit wary, but for big tech they have a pretty good track record.
Our government is circling the drain and are, it seems, determined to leave a trail of destruction and burned bridges for their successors to repair.
That is how conservative parties work, yes.
In the UK, even conservatives hate the conservatives. It's quite impressive, really.
Then they can point how useless the government is and get back in power
No offence but isn’t a very similar policy about banning end-to-end encryption also in talk in the EU
Absolutely don’t agree with it, will be the beginning of the end for privacy but this is more of a European wide (and even world wide) push for a close to e2e encryption
GDPR is basically encrypt your shit and you’ll be fine. If they are seriously considering banning encryption the IT sector might as well shut up shop and run for the hills.
It’s so bad the UK politicians actually use non MDM unmanaged devices so they can install whichever app they see fit. Tiktok you name it.
We won a physical war via encryption and we’ll lose a digital one without it.
I do seem to recall that some countries petitioned a weakening of e2ee. Some other countries through were firmly against it, so it seems it has lead to nowhere. For sure something to be aware of.
God damn bullshit always “for children and terrorists”
I hate how people turn a blind eye to these things nowadays. They’re willing to give away their personal lives at the expense of the shittiest excuses out there. Privacy should be a necessity, ffs.
“protect the public from criminals, child sex abusers and terrorists”
Aren’t two of those just subsets of the first one?
What a curious pair of emotionally manipulative examples to choose, when it adds absolutely no extra meaning to the Home Office’s statement.
i would assume they mean ‘criminals, especially…’, but classic tHiNk oF tHe ChiLdReN argument
Why don’t they just actually give their actual reason: to spy on UK citizens.
To use children and criminals as a scapegoat for this attrocity is disgusting.
There are a lot of things to hate about Apple, but this I can get behind. Get people using 3rd party messaging apps too! Preferably ones with e2e encryption.
Plenty of people in the UK/Europe use third party apps already, iMessage is certainly less of a big deal than it is in the US.
Don’t forget canada. So many people here use imessage or whatsapp
For sure. I live in Asia, and the Green vs Blue bubble thing that probably only exists in the US is just so mind boggling to me.
Element is on the App Store
i can recommend signal
Don’t you know anything, Brits? Apple only strips security features for the Chinese government, you fools!
Haha yeah too right. UK government isn’t authoritarian enough for apple to listen to
No, the UK just doesn’t have enough population to bargain with.
it has more to do with where their factors are located. Hard to negotiate with the people who control the very land and people you utilize to build your hardware
Not saying that justifies it, just think we should be accurate with our outrage
I mean, they didn’t cave to Russia either. Apple just has principles until there’s enough cash on the table. Then they claim to “always abide by local laws” wherever they operate.
Oh, they are authoritarian enough. They just aren’t powerful enough.
Want to know what it looks like to go power crazy with no power, then go look at the Tories.
It’s this publicly known, or just assumed because China blocks everything they can’t read?
I assume that Apple gives the Chinese government access somehow, but I’ve never read details.
Apple proactively aids in censorship and stores all customer data on servers controlled by the Chinese government.
This is the way.
Please no redditisms or else I will literally die of cringe o( ❛ᴗ❛ )o
This is more like internet culture tho?
Then perish
So, something from pop culture is a redditism?
So, do I have to behave the way you like to be here? That’s nonsense.
Gatekeeping, another redditism. Perhaps you belong there after all?
This is the way.
Signal and WhatsApp have also said they’d likely leave the UK market if this bill is passed as it currently is.
Signal should still work there if people want to use it, and they don’t block it with a Great British Firewall.
I’ll be damned if we’ll have to thank the UK for getting RCS normalized.
This has nothing to do with RCS from what I read on the article. It looks like the UK wants to be able to tell companies to disable security features such as End to End Encryption so that they can view the messages.
That would be better than iMessage or Whatsapp, but even better if we all moved to Simplex, or other secure and private messaging app.
rcs is not e2e encrypted afaik
Why don’t politicians just fuck off?
Nothing they ever do about anything leads to an improvement.
I agreed that they should definitely fuck off, but this will be pushed y the security services. A change of government won’t change the drive for this sort of bollocks.
“Oh but what about the criminals, terrorists and pedos?”
What about all the people that aren’t that who loose their privacy?
I mean, I hate politicians too but they did give us organizations like OSHA that protect us at work. Not all politicians are pieces of shit…but certainly MOST are.
Obvious counter-examples are abundant. I choose the global eradication of smallpox.
That sounds like typical bOtH sIdEs bullshit.
Those proposals will never be made law and acted upon.
It’s infeasible nonsense to pander to the Daily Mail reading curtain-twitchers. They’ve had 13 years to try and do this. If they wanted to (and indeed if it was in any way possible), they’d have done it already.
It’ll be just “Vote for us and we’ll make your children safe from nonces and muzzies!” until the end of time.
Eh, I never thought the GOP would actually overturn abortion rights because it’s such an effective red herring to get their base to keep voting against their best interests, but here we are.
Brexit happened. How long was that simmering? Anything is possible. The country has proven that.
Rare Apple W.
They had a different response to China though. Telling.
Why can’t the UK govt simply rent their spyware from Israel, like everyone else?
I can’t believe I’m saying this but…good guy Apple?
They should just publicly publish all the messages from politicians’ accounts.
If they want to see our messages we should be able to see theirs, fair is fair.
this is advertising and should be removed
Good on them
What about other tech companies like Microsoft or Google? Do they comply?
And they will come up with other ways to steal user’s data, so they could sell it or distinguish user behavior to develop new product.
As a UK citizen, I totally support this. The more that the average voter is disconvenienced because of proposed law changes like this and the (unenforcable) anti-porn laws, the more likely they are to actually pressure their MP or change how they vote.
Apple is correct. If they compromise their apps here, then other countries will follow suit and their reputation as a brand will take a massive hit. A big part of Apple’s appeal is their security, this is the best financial decision.
Huh, for once I am siding with Apple. Weird feeling.
Apple would have to refactor their tools and potentially introduce security issues for everyone by doing this. If the UK government wants to be fucking dumb, it shouldn’t be something everyone has to at the price for.
It’s a strange world when Disney and Apple are actually doing the right thing.
Rare Apple W
What are the UK proposals?
JoeKrogan@lemmy.world 1 year ago
This is the correct response. Either everyone has protection or no one has
hardypart@feddit.de 1 year ago
I’m not even an Apple user but somehow I still feel like Apple are one of the very last companies where privacy and the security of your data is more worth than a dime.
DragonAce@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Any company that obfuscates all their security practices, refuses to give statistics on security risks and counter measures, and boils their product security down to “Trust us, bro.”, doesn’t actually give a fuck about your security. They’re just the last company who keeps everything secret so they can make shit up as they go along. Apple’s security is a joke and they’re just as bad as any other manufacturer on the market, the only difference is they have successfully kept their shit secret for all these years.
I still remember a few years ago having a conversation with a coworker about her iphone and she bragged about Apple never being hacked, on the same day I had just got done reading an article about a large scale hack. Apple never said a damned thing about it. Did you know that most celebrity phone hacks are thru apple accounts?
saltesc@lemmy.world 1 year ago
They’re just jumping on theme. It’s what they do. Appeal to trend.
MxM111@kbin.social 1 year ago
I think this is correct response not just in case of morality, but in case of technology. How can you guaranty privacy of a call if the recipient is from UK?
EighthLayer@lemmy.world 1 year ago
iMessage isn’t a big loss in the UK. FaceTime would be.
WhatsApp pulling out of the UK would have the biggest impact. Almost everyone uses it here.
iMike@lemmy.world 1 year ago
Can confirm, it had swipe to reply for a while now, it’s coming to iMessage in next iOS… The only thing that annoys me about WhatsApp is the high picture compression resulting in low quality images.
EliasChao@lemmy.one 1 year ago
WhatsApp also uses E2EE, wouldn’t also be targeted under this same legislation?
Meta pulling WhatsApp out of the UK would affect way more people.