What OS should I use for self-hosting that doesn't require extensive terminal knowledge?

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨scheep@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨selfhosted@lemmy.world⁩

I am trying to use my old laptops for self-hosting. One has a 6th gen Intel Core i3 (4GB ram), the other has an 11th gen Intel Core i5 (8GB ram). I have previously tried both ubuntu server and desktop but couldn’t get it to work well. For the former I found it difficult to remote ssh and the latter I had difficulty installing Docker containers. (I’m not very good with the command line)

I would like to find an OS that is easier to setup with less of a neccesity for the command line (I would still like to learn how to use it though, I don’t want to get rid of it entirely!). I’ve heard of CasaOS, is that a good option? It seems quite easy to use. What about other alternatives?

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Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨44⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
I am very much a Windows user and my journey went like this:
Raspberry Pi with OMV -> SSH on OMV -> Mostly Terminal on OMV -> Docker + Portainer to deploy containers -> Transition to docker-compose -> Setup my own VM with Debian completely in the CLI (excluding the first setup of the VM)

I use Linux (primarily Debian because of Raspberry. I don’t lile what I hear about Ubuntu) usually for VMs/servers and Windows as the client OS

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AustralianSimon@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Mint or Ubuntu is like Windows but better.

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Hawk@lemmynsfw.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I’m not trying to be unhelpful. My advice would be to steer into the terminal. Bite the bullet. I use arch and alpine for my servers but Fedora would be fine (but SELinux can be a pain with bund mounts)

Probably just go with Fedora with btrfs for snaps. It has lots of support and is a common choice for servers

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- Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨43⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
  How do you troubleshoot Alpine? The one time I tried (later needed to use Debian because the OS was not supported) I could almost only find ressources in conjunction with containerization.
  
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hperrin@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
If you’re afraid of the terminal, you won’t get far in self hosting. You should learn to use the terminal. It’s not as scary as people make it sound.

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- Mavytan@feddit.nl ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Could you recommend a source for learning how to use the command line? In the past I struggled with understanding the basic commands and the various flags. I’ve found it difficult to find good documentation, but I would like to learn
  
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  - hperrin@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    It’s been a long time since I learned, so I don’t remember exactly what I used, but at a cursory glance, this one looks good:
    
    www.terminaltutor.com
    
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  - RestrictedAccount@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    TBF ChatHPT is probably your best bet
    
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- VeganCheesecake@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I guess you could install cockpit (via Terminal, sorry, but it’s pretty straightforward and there are good guides). After that, you could use the cockpit web interface to deploy docker/podman containers. It’s a bit clunky sometimes, but it does the job purely in UI.
  
  You can also manage updates, backups, etc via cockpit if you install the required modules.
  
  As base, I’d use any stable Linux distro that’s reccomended for server use.
  
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- masterspace@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Self hosting is doomed until this isn’t the answer.
  
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  - irotsoma@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    A desktop environment is a waste of resources on a system where you’ll only use it to install and occasionally upgrade a few server applications. The RAM, CPU power, and electricity used to run the desktop environment could be instead powering another couple of small applications.
    
    Selfhosting is already inefficient with computing resources just like everyone building their own separate infrastructure in a city is less efficient. Problem is infrastructure is shared ownership whereas most online services are not owned by the users so selfhosting makes sense, but requires extra efficiencies.
    
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  - atzanteol@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Yeah, this whole “Linux server” thing just isn’t going to take off.
    
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  - aMockTie@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Imagine if OP asked: “I want to repair my own car, but I don’t want to open the hood or get under the car. What are my options?”
    
    Obviously there would be some options, but those options would be very limited and not ideal. This is very similar. Self-hosting, like self-repair of a vehicle, requires some foundational knowledge and understanding of your specific hardware, usecase, and needs, as well as the knowledge and ability to bring those things to fruition. There is no single universal answer that applies to everyone, but those skills can be acquired by anyone.
    
    I don’t think self-hosting is any more doomed than self-repair of a vehicle. Not for everyone, but enjoyable and generally optimized for those who participate.
    
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  - baduhai@sopuli.xyz ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    It isn’t, self hosting just isn’t for everyone, and it never will be.
    
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  - gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Self hosting isn’t likely to ever get to the point of “plug and play”. It’s inherently incredibly flexible and different people will do different things with it. Some people just want NAS. Some people want to build a router. Some people want to have a modest compute farm that they physically own. Some people want a virtualization playground. Or pretty much anything else you can think of, or some combination thereof.
    
    For instance, I custom built a 2-tier + optane cached NAS running proxmox, and I have a handful of old thin clients I can spin up for doing Beowulf things when I feel like it, and I also have another repurposed thin client running pfSense as my router that can support up to 10g (futureproofing).
    
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  - hperrin@lemmy.ca ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    No. You really don’t want to self host unless you are pretty familiar with how these services work. Otherwise, you’re just setting yourself up to get hacked.
    
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- Angry_Autist@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  
  If you’re afraid of t
  
  The least sanctimonious linux shithead
  
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  - Kusimulkku@lemm.ee ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Name checks out
    
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VeganCheesecake@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I guess you could install cockpit (via Terminal, sorry, but it’s pretty straightforward and there are good guides). After that, you could use the cockpit web interface to deploy docker/podman containers. It’s a bit clunky sometimes, but it does the job purely in UI.

You can also manage updates, backups, etc via cockpit if you install the required modules.

As base, I’d use any stable Linux distro that’s reccomended for server use.

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- techognito@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  cockpit-project.org
  
  for more info for those interested
  
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groet@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Generally, Linux Servers are best administered from a command line. At least in the beginning to set everything up. In turn they are faster on lower hardware as they dont even have a graphical desktop at all so need less resources. You could of course install a windows server OS. They can be fully administered through Remote Desktop and a GUI.

There are multiple projects to make self hosting more accessible (like casaOS). They automate many steps of the setup and then offer you a webUI for further steps. Maybe have a look here github.com/awesome-selfhosted/awesome-selfhosted?…

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- scheep@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Woah, there’s a lot. Nice that there’s plenty of options!
  
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  - hellequin67@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    I run my home media server ( and intel NUC i5, so nothing super powerful) running Ubuntu with CasaOS.
    
    There’s tons of you tube videos to help with CasaOS for self hosting and not just the media side.
    
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EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
CasaOS

CosmosOS

Umbrel

I believe all of these are actually just running Debian as the actual OS underneath, but they give you a webui that makes deploying apps easier.
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- scheep@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Cosmos does look quite good. TrueNAS can’t run on my old laptops so HexOS was never really an option
  
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Andromxda@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Unraid is great for beginners.

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- dmention7@lemm.ee ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Beginner here (to Linux and networking anyways), running Unraid for about 18 months now. Fully agree, it’s been great for actually getting up and doing useful things quickly and relatively pain free.
  
  Eventually I would like to try working backwards and getting things running on a more “traditional” server environment, but Unraid has been a great learning tool for me personally.
  
  It’s like… Maybe some folks learned to overhaul an engine before they got their driver’s license, but lots of people just need to a car to get to work and back today, and they can learn to change their oil and do a brake job when the time comes.
  
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- drspod@lemmy.ml ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Does Unraid still use JBOD with a single parity disk or have they moved to a sane drive layout?
  
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  - charles@lemmy.ca ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Other than ZFS as someone mentioned already, they also offer dual drive parity now. IMO it’s a good balance to also allow a very flexible and easily expandable array.
    
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  - ShortN0te@lemmy.ml ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Still the same but afaik they now somewhat support running zfs
    
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kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Keep in mind the reason why people generally dont run desktop environments on a server is because unessential software uses more resources and increases the chance of a system crash. I would highly reccomend learning how to use a terminal and installing fish (shell) is a great place to start.

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- Angry_Autist@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  
  User makes specific request
  
  Top comment is ‘Nah you don’t want that, just learn terminal yo’
  
  Fuck every member of the linux community
  
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  - kittenzrulz123@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    What? Am I supposed to lie? For advanced tasks such as running server grade software you need to use a terminal, this is the case for every single operating system. FreeBSD, MacOS, and yes even Windows require knowledge of the terminal for advanced tasks such as running server grade software.
    
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  - lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    OP also said they’re willing to learn the terminal when they’re able.
    
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  - emuspawn@orbiting.observer ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    This is Lemmy, not the other place. Please be kinder. No need to abuse people trying to help, especially when OP did mention they wouldn’t mind learning if its easy enough.
    
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q7mJI7tk1@lemmy.world ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
For what it’s worth given the age of this thread and disagreement going on in it, I would recommend Unraid.

Easy for a beginner, with enough to take you up to intermediate level: a web GUI for pretty much all the required terminal commands. It’s been around for years, is not going away, but instead getting updated. Works on any hardware and most of all, the community there are very supportive of beginners. There’s also lots of YouTube tutorials.

It ticks all the boxes for easy self hosting. It’s just not for Linux protocol purists.

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pHr34kY@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Almost all of selfhosting is editing config files, setting permissions and starting/stopping services.

Setting it up so you can administer a server by desktop is probably as hard as learning how to edit config files from a terminal. Maybe harder.

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- TMP_NKcYUEoM7kXg4qYe@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Yep my thoughts. New selfhosters think the hard part of selfhosting is command line but that’s “kinda” like thinking that the hard part of math is writing numbers on paper. Terminal is just the medium, not the complex part. Navigating filesystem and editing files is easier on the desktop but changing permissions and managing services would be be extremely difficult for a newbie without using the terminal because (almost) every online tutorial uses terminal. OP would have to learn how to translate the terminal command to its desktop counterpart at which point they might as well use the terminal.
  
  OP also has an XY problem. They asked for a system which does not require terminal usage but they should have actually asked for an easy to set up system. People are recommending things like Yunohost though, so it’s fine in the end.
  
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  - lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    
    OP also has an XY problem.
    
    Oh god, that… I recently realized that I’ve been fighting that concept with one of my cars for over a year now. Just this week, I finally figured out the right troubleshooting path 😂
    
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WQMan@lemm.ee ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I personally use Debian. For your case, you can install lightweight desktop environments such as XFCE.

Honestly from my point of view after reading your post, you don’t have a terminal or operating system issue, it feels like you are new to self-hosting and don’t know how to start configuring from scratch.

Ideally you want to look for documentations or keep asking for online help. For example, with installing docker, you would want to refer to this: docs.docker.com/engine/install/. Welcome to system admin life, where you spend more time reading/understanding than configuring. Personally, you can even use AI Chatbot to help you with stuff, just be specific on the system you are on, the goal you are trying to achieve and the problem you are tring to solve.

Which brings me to answer your next point about CasaOS: It exists so that you can skip most of the ‘system admin life’ step

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- scheep@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Okay, so CasaOS is easier to set up (but uses more resources and I won’t learn sysadmin stuff) whereas using something like Debian is a bit harder to set up (but uses less resources and learn more!).
  
  Think I might try CasaOS on my 11th gen laptop and plain Debian on my 6th gen laptop and see which I prefer
  
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Guenther_Amanita@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
I can recommend you Debian, since it’s the “default” for many servers and has a lot of documentation and an extremely big userbase.

For web interfaces, I can recommend you, as you already mentioned, CasaOS and Cockpit.

I used CasaOS in the beginning and liked it, but nowadays, I mostly use Cockpit, where I have the feeling that it integrates the host system more, and allows me to do most of my maintenance (updating, etc.) quite easily.

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- scheep@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Thanks, that was really helpful :D
  
  I’ll try CasaOS then, and later maybe I could move to Debian once I get better at the command line!
  
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  - BruisedMoose@piefed.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    For what it's worth, CasaOS isn't actually an operating system. It absolutely works as an easy way to install and manage your self-hosted apps if you aren't comfortable with the command line, but you still need to have a working Linux installation.
    
    Yunohost is kind of similar as far as making things easier, but it operates as a standalone OS, so might be more what you're looking for.
    
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  - Guenther_Amanita@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    CasaOS isn’t an OS, it’s just the web interface you install afterwards you have Debian or whatever running
    
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mhz@lemm.ee ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Maybe you might find home in one of those NAS ootimized distros like Openmediavault, truenas, unraid. If not CasaOS or old good Debian with portainer.

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- lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I’m all for command line, but I’m the kind of person who needs a dashboard, otherwise I forget everything. OMV has a solid dashboard and has been really good for me.
  
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scheep@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
I ended up installing Debian since Yunohost can’t install and my old laptop doesn’t meet the hardware requirements of TrueNAS Scale

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- hendrik@palaver.p3x.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  By the way, you can still run the Yunohost installer ontop of your Debian install... If you want to... It's Debian-based anyway so it doesn't really matter if you use its own install media or use the script on an existing Debian install. Though I feel like adding: If you're looking for Docker... Yunohost might not be your best choice. It's made to take control itself and it doesn't use containers. Of course you can circumvent that and add Docker containers nonetheless... But that isn't really the point and you'd end up dealing with the underlying Debian and just making it more complicated.
  
  It is a very good solution if you don't want to deal with the CLI. But it stops being useful once you want too much customization, or unpackaged apps. At least that's my experience.
  
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  - scheep@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Ah got it. I’ve installed debian since yunohost had issues installing for whatever reason. Weird.
    
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happydoors@lemm.ee ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I went with Truenas Scale and was pleasantly surprised it needed no command line kung fu

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- scheep@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  TrueNAS scale seems like the perfect option, the only downside is that my old laptops don’t meet the hardware requirements
  
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  - Appoxo@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨42⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
    Like RAM?
    Not that important. I ran it with ¼-½ of the recommended RAM (1GB RAM per TB)
    
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anamethatisnt@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
I would recommend trying out Cockpit (Github) and Portainer (Github).
Cockpit gives you a WebUI for Linux and Portainer gives you a WebUI for Docker.
Personally I usually run Debian Stable for servers, but choice of distro matters little if you run stuff as Docker containers.

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- scheep@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  thanks! Maybe I could check out cockpit and portainer too…
  
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  - Vendetta9076@sh.itjust.works ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Might want to use dockge instead of portainer.
    
    github.com/louislam/dockge
    
    Portainer has… Weird issues.
    
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possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I honestly would use a headless Linux system with docker compose. You can find premade docker compose files.

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glitching@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
don’t go with server variants of the OS. they are intended for boxes that work without display and keyboard, which you have. instead, install any normal distro you’re familiar with. it’s infinitely easier to fix something with the full GUI at your disposal.

this is just your first install, you will iterate, and through that process you’ll get better and leaner, in terms of underlying OS. think of it as training wheels on a bike, you’ll pull them off eventually.

wired connection only, leave wireless turned off, and assign it a static IP address.

don’t do containerS, do one container first. figure out where you’re gonna store the compose files, where it will store data, how you will back that data up, etc. then add another. does it fit into your setup? do you need to modify something? rinse. repeat.

casaOS, aside from it’s murky background (some chinese startup or sumsuch, forgot?) doesn’t provide that path forward nor allows you to learn something, too much hand holding.

good luck.

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- scheep@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  ah okay, gotcha. So no CasaOS then. Lots of others suggest YUNOHost, is that fine?
  
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testman@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
YUNOHost iso is basically just Debian, but the one-click-install for various self-hosted things is it’s primary purpose. All done through web interface.

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Churbleyimyam@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
YUNOhost is designed for this. You can do almost everything graphically via the webadmin. Mine has been running for a couple of years and I’m very happy with it. I have email, XMP (both of which were installed out of the box), a website, file sharing and a few other things. There are a tonne of apps available, including Fediverse instances, Nextcloud. It’s a very cool thing to have available for making self-hosting more accessible.

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- irmadlad@lemmy.world ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  
  YUNOhost
  
  Early on sometime, I deployed Yunohost. At the time there were apps, but the catalog was sparse. I happened upon it again in a search for something else about a week or so ago. Wow! The devs have been really developing it at a cyclical rate. I was impressed. For someone just starting out and trying to get their toes wet, I could see Yunohost being a good starting point.
  
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asudox@lemmy.asudox.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
You can install some Linux distro and then download a docker management web UI like coolify. Requires little terminal knowledge. Though you should learn the terminal.

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- possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  The trade off with Fedora is that has a support window of only a year
  
  There is also Rocky and Alma
  
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couch1potato@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
I was in the same spot about 3 years ago and I started with Unraid. Got me into docker and dipping my toes into command line stuff.

Honestly though you’re going to quickly outgrow your old laptops…

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sem@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
If you are mostly hosting files, open media vault has minimal command line, and it’s mostly administered through a web admin. It’s still fairly complex however, and I definitely recommend reading the manual thoroughly and sticking with easy tasks at first. www.openmediavault.org

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N0x0n@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Hey :) I’m not giving you any recommendations but want to give you my personal experience !

5 years ago I had absolutely no clue about Linux/CLI/networking/docker… You name it ! And I also wanted to repurposed and old laptop as a server.

The first distro I installed on my server was Debian ! Why? Because I remembered my brother said something along the line: “Every server infrastructure is run by Debian or a Debian derivative”. So this sounded like the perfect thing to install as a server distro :) !

5 years later I’m still running Debian on this old laptop and it’s going strong ! Never did it failed me except if I did something wrong over the CLI !

As you guessed it, you will need some degree of proficiency on the command line specially if you install your distro without a graphical user interface, which I would recommend… Yes, the CLI isn’t easy to beginning with and you will do some mistakes that will need a full reinstall of your system… But before you learn to move, you learn to stay up right on your legs and this involves a lot a failing !!

It’s not mandatory, you can install a lightweight GUI and take your time. There are a lot of application with good UI which will help you out ! However, not once did I regret to take the harder route and learned so many things along the way ! After this amount of time in the CLI, I can say I’m getting quite good In navigating my system, keeping it healthy and alive :p !

Okay, If it’s a matter of time I get it ! We only have 24h a day and most of this time is already spend at work/school, family time, friends, sleep, eat ! If you’re lucky enough to have 2 hours to spare to tinker arround, a UI is a good idea to keep a healthy balance between all your personal activities ! But keep in mind, both are thorny and have their fair share of issues and debug time.

Last words, have fun with your system :)

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- scheep@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  thanks for sharing your experience :D
  
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thefartographer@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Just from the handful of OSs I’ve tried, I’d suggest Ubuntu desktop again.

As for docker, I’d say to get docker and docker compose setup. Once you’re running in docker compose, adding machines is often as simple as editing some markup in a text editor.

But my final suggestion is to crawl before you walk before you run. Start slow in the terminal. Instead of using your file explorer, navigate directories using the terminal and then open the directory you need into the file explorer using the terminal.

Want a new file? Use touch. Want a new directory? Use mkdir. Eventually, it’ll become annoying to open a file from your explorer when you could just open it from the terminal. Then, you’ll get annoyed with text editors and want to reduce your context switches by using vim.

Also, –help is your best friend when trying to figure out commands. You got this! Feel free to send me a message if you wanna chat and have any questions when you’re ready to start dipping your toes. I’m far from an expert, but I’ve made some progress of my own and eventually we might learn a thing or two together.

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actaastron@reddthat.com ⁨19⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
FWIW I’ve been using Ubuntu desktop with CasaOS for a couple of months now to host Nextcloud, Jellfin, Immich and a few other bits and bobs with absolutely no issues at all so far!

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foggy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Ubuntu. Many will disagree but, Debian flavors are a way smoother experience from the start and Ubuntu has a ton of community support. You’ll rarely find an issue no one found and solved before you.

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- possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Anything but Ubuntu for the most part
  
  Mint, Fedora or whatever else
  
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  - foggy@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Would absolutely not recommend fedora as a first distro.
    
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SoftestSapphic@lemmy.world ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Windows Server 2022

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ijhoo@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Not that I’m using them, but what about these two?

www.truenas.com/truenas-scale/

www.proxmox.com/en/

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- irmadlad@lemmy.world ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Proxmox rox.
  
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- JohnDClay@sh.itjust.works ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  hexos.com is also trying to be a low skill low effort version of truenas, but it does have a one time payment. I didn’t think you’d need a nas specific OS for just one storage laptop though, it’s more meant for large home storage servers.
  
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