[Thread] Mental Math

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• Emerald@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I always thought about how interesting it is that handing things to people is so reliable. We just kind’ve know exactly when the other person has grabbed something enough for us to let go.

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  • NikkiDimes@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    And then there’s the rare moment when you think they have it so you let go and it falls to the floor 😭

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• MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  The thing about juggling is moot, the point is to throw exactly, so you don’t need to look where to catch. Couldn’t do juggling otherwise.

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  • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Then you’re getting into things like muscle memory. I’m not a neuroscientist, but I imagine that could also be boiled down to math being done subconsciously and instantaneously in your brain.

    Almost like if you do a thing enough times, you just look it up in a chart instead of deriving it from the equation every time…

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  • AAA@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Yes and no. Jugglers do benefit from getting very consistently thrown objects. However they still need to make small adjustments every time. On very limited information in this case.

    I also remember an experiment with professional football (soccer) players, where balls would be shot towards them and the lights would be switched off while the ball was in the air. The rate at which they were able to position themselves and kick the ball back in complete darkness was pretty impressive.

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  • GoofSchmoofer@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I would say there is still some complicated stuff going on in the brain with knowing where your arm, hand, elbow and shoulder are in space as well how much force you need to apply (the precise amount of motor neurons to activate at the exact time) so you can toss the ball in the arc you need to catch it on the other side.

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    • MonkderVierte@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Sure. I myself am not good a throwing, can’t juggle shit.

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• Hupf@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Thor on the tongue

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  • Comment105@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Sure, but sometimes Thor just says stuff.

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• iAvicenna@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I always imagine it more like neural networks. simply based on a lot of training and experience.

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  • NikkiDimes@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Have you ever swiped on your phone, but the screen doesn’t move (due to end of content, or unknowingly being an unswipable screen), and you feel your eyes jerk automatically in reflex, predicting the movement that didn’t happen?

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    • Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      thank you for enlightening me to the fact that i am definitely not addicted to my phone

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  • JackbyDev@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    My brain is like a brutal network? No way…

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    • iAvicenna@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      more like neural networks are maybe like your brain? dunno not an expert, just a feeling

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  • PsychedSy@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Layered as well. Little bits process very specific things and simplify it for the beast.

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    • NikkiDimes@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Take shrooms and watch as the divisions between the little bits break down into absolute chaos :D

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• milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Not advanced maths per se; neural networks are amazing! Fuzzy matching based on experience - taken to an incredible level. And, tuneable by internal simulation (imagination).

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  • HereIAm@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Don’t be fooled to think computer neural networks is how the brain is structured. Through out history we’ve always compared the brain to the most advanced technology at the time. From clocks, to computers with short and long term memory, and now to neural networks.

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    • milicent_bystandr@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      That is a good point, though the architecture of computer neutral networks is inspired by how we think the brain works, and if I understand correctly there is some definite similarity in the architecture.

      Lots of difference though, still!

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    • Zementid@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I would guess that every statement made is kind of true. It is a clock, a computer and a LLM,…

      I would even go as far as LLM is the closest to a functioning brain we can produce. And we don’t understand in detail what it does. Which is ironic.

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• tigeruppercut@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Most people who’ve been juggling for awhile don’t need too much additional practice to be able to do at least a few blindfolded catches just because of how consistent your throws get after awhile.

  The other thing that’s interesting is how pattern recognition in flying things people aren’t generally used to seeing develops. I used to play ultimate, and when people start learning how a frisbee flies they might be susceptible to chasing it down by following along the path of the disc rather than moving directly to where it’s going to end up. This is sometimes called dogging the disc because (many) dogs do the same thing. But then you learn to “read” the disc and you can tell by the flight path and angle of the disc where it’s going to land.

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• thedeadwalking4242@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  A lot of it is less math and more just approximations using old data, just fitting a complex statistical model neural nets suck ass at math

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  • scarilog@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Yeah, your brain is not doing projectile motion equations in real time, it’s the same process as teaching a neutral network to approximate a parabola.

    Don’t get me wrong, it’s incredibly impressive that this prediction in our brain requires the visual processing of data from eyes to identify an object flying through the air, moving our hand in a perfect intercept course to catch it. All without having to have a ton of data points to ‘train’ on.

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  • mexicancartel@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Yeah there is a lot of neural networks, but i don’t think that is the only thing in brain. There could be calculators and integrator circuits

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• Kolanaki@yiffit.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  The second thing about microslippage is why I, even though I would say I’m transhumanist, would only ever go full cyborg if the robot parts had a sense of touch.

  I don’t wanna pet my dog and not only not feel their fur, but also end up crushing them with my super strength.

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  • Swedneck@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    i feel like being objectively better than your body is a pretty fundamental requirement for transhumanism, like generally what’s shown as the ideal transhumanist body is a nanomachine swarm that can just make precisely whatever you want at any moment, you can be ostensibly human one moment and then turn into a fucking jet plane and go to the other side of the world and become human again to traipse through the jungles.

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  • Dasus@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Also masturbation might be a challenge in that scenario.

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  • TopRamenBinLaden@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I think with the beginning stages of this kind of technology would work better with a removable option, for this reason. We are already getting able to make better human appendages, with super strength and dexterity, etc., but the touch is something that will probably be hard to implement for awhile.

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  • KinglyWeevil@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Also the ability of mirror neurons to watch someone do a thing, then conceptualize and execute it with your body is extremely interesting.

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    • Kolanaki@yiffit.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I’ve seen some pretty awesome prosthetics that are controlled the same way you would use your limbs before they were lost by connecting to nerves; but they still don’t feel anything. At least, not in the sense that the appendage itself is sending signals to your brain for it. There is still phantom sense/pain. You can get a false sense of touch in VR, too.

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  • Schmoo@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Agreed, until prosthetics can achieve full parity of both function and sensation then they are only good as replacements for parts that are already missing. No sane person is swapping their hand for one that lacks a sense of touch just as good or better than what they have already, even if it’s mechanically superior. In such a scenario that mechanical superiority is desired they would opt for an augmentation over a prosthetic.

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    • Dasus@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Just earlier today I was googling whether even tooth implants are actually better than the natural alternative.

      I didn’t find a definitive answer.

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    • PsychedSy@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      I’d take a pettin’ hand and a crushin’ hand.

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• bitwolf@lemmy.one ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  I was always amazed at how we can catch objects in flight.

  Compared to how long it takes me to calculate projectile momentum in Physics 1

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  • buttfarts@lemy.lol ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Or tiny birds that can expertly navigate wind currents with an almond sized brain using real-time force feedback. The computational power at their disposal is very well optimized for what they do.

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    • Dasus@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      And they can even do that in sync with thousands (and even millions) of other small birds.

      Image

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    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Plus they have hollow bones and weigh almost nothing

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    • PlantDadManGuy@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Hummingbirds are fucking incredible. They can literally hover, fly backwards, fly inverted, fly silently, or flap their wings loud enough to generate sound waves as a mating ritual. They’re like miniature f-18s dog fighting constantly.

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• TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  microslippages: some of us just call it what it is: masturbation

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• Tarquinn2049@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  A lot of it is the difference between learning practically and learning theoretically. You don’t have to understand the underlying mechanics in practice to know how to keep getting the same result. Your brain doesn’t have to be doing any math, it just has to have shaken a bottle enough times to have a good comparative basis formed.

  Learning to calculate the current remaining volume in a container when observing someone else shake it… that would use all that theoretical knowledge and math.

  It’s like knowing how hard you have to throw an egg at a wall for it to break instead of bounce off. You do it 100 times, you just get a good feel for it. Doing all the math, and then trying to learn it practically is barely gonna affect how quickly you learn it in practice. But if you wanted to make a robot that throws it exactly hard enough without wasting any energy, practical knowledge will have almost no value, and theory and math will be incredibly valuable.

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• bleistift2@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  0 3 * * * reboot

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• abbadon420@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  If you’re about to walk into a bar with you head, or like the top of a doorpost or smt. You’ll instinctively pull back and avoid the obstacle, inches before it hurts, because your brain notice the hairs on your head moved. That’s why men who have recently gone bald, often have bumps and bruises on their head. My bald colleague told me that for him, that was the hardest thing about going bald.

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  • dovahking@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Maybe I’m understanding wrong but hair don’t have nerves. Is our brain detecting the micro movements of hair follicles inside the skin?

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    • Death_Equity@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Nerves in the scalp.

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  • Anticorp@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    So by that logic, a boxer who shaves his head will take harder hits!

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    • Godnroc@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Or does that fractional reaction cause the brain to shift forward more than it would if they had not reacted? Could that reaction lead to worse brain injuries? Makes me wonder.

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  • brbposting@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Wow super interesting

    Thank you hair! I only cut you out of love!

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• can@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Our bodies n brains are so cool. Think about what goes into locating a sound in space.

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  • myusernameis@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Beyond that there’s been a considerable amount of research about our ability to estimate room size/material/shape while blindfolded just based on the reverberation of sounds in the space.

    Oversimplified conclusion, untrained humans are really good at it.

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    • idiomaddict@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      We can also hear the difference between hot and cold water from the sound it makes while being poured into a cup

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  • dutchkimble@lemy.lol ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    In space, no one can hear you scream

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  • Zink@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I think the “more to it” might be significantly crazier than the timing thing.

    Or ears have unique complex shapes that attenuate certain frequencies and bounce sound around in complex ways depending on the direction they ate coming from. And our brains instantly process all that stuff too. It’s why our sense of hearing isn’t just on a flat plane around our head.

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    • Dasus@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      And we can also slightly move our ears a tiny amount, but I’m sure even that does increase accuracy.

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  • rocketpoweredredneck@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    My hearing is pretty severely damaged in my left ear, and for several months I thought everything was to my right. but I’ve my ability to locate sounds has come back. My hearings not any better, my brain just figured out that my left ears fucked and compensated.

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  • GraniteM@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    Put on some halfway decent headphones and try out the virtual barbershop.

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  • dukatos@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    You can also detect is the source up or down thanks to ear shape which delays sound for couple of ms.

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  • bleistift2@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    That’s boring. Two ears only allow you to put the sound somewhere on a plane (the vertical one that cuts your body in half lengthwise). How do you know the ‘height’ of the sound on that plane? By utilizing the different distortions the sound goes through while being funneled through your auricle.

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    • Dasus@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Also, moving your ears and your head.

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    • JackFrostNCola@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Also that everyones brain has tuned this perception based on their own ear shape, and if you add prosthetic ridges to someones ear they become very bad at determining the noise source direction in blindfold tests.

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• Mr_Blott@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Another one is levelling.

  A lot of people can see a picture frame is about 0.5° out of level and their fucking eye twitches until the fix it

  Me included

  That’s nuts when you think about it

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  • theneverfox@pawb.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I remember we once installed something on a beam 40’ feet up. While waking through an inspection of many such things, the engineer stops, cocks his head for a second, and says “that’s not quite straight”

    And then it wasn’t. Like a cast of manual breathing, the thing I had been frequently walking past for weeks was suddenly wrong, ever so slightly

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    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      Leave it up to a civil engineer to ruin your day.

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  • Eranziel@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    I worked on an industrial robot once, and we parked it such that the middle section of the arm was up above the robot and supposed to be level. I could tell from 50 feet away and a glance that it wasn’t, so we checked. It was off by literally 1 degree.

    Degrees are bigger than we think, but also our eyes are incredible instruments.

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  • The_Che_Banana@beehaw.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    When my wife was pissed at me she would go to my office before I got to work and tilt every picture/award and move my books about.

    She knows what buttons to push and my sous chefs just let her do it… ungrateful pricks

    /S

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    • Comment105@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      You have multiple sauce cooks and they’re in charge of office security?

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  • Senseless@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

    See, I live in an old apartment. The corners aren’t 90°, the wall a picture is hanging on is convex. When I’m lying in bed and look at the picture it looks like it’s crooked but I used a level several times on it and it’s as straight as can be. It’s driving me insane.

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    • Anticorp@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      This is when you set it relative to the rest of the unleveled stuff in your view to make it look level.

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    • Hawke@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

      But “level isn’t what you need. If the floor and ceiling aren’t level, it’ll look wrong.

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• iAmTheTot@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  Throwing and catching always amaze me. And it’s not something that everyone is ashtrays great at, for sure, but anyone can try to toss a wad of paper into the waste basket. Whether or not you make it, the calculations under the hood, happening so quickly, always astound me to think about.

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• pancake@lemmygrad.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  The overwhelming majority of all neurons in our body are just for controlling movement. Ironically, things like language or creativity require very little of our computing power and might be replicated by machine learning and a sufficiently beefy computer. But complex motor tasks? We’re way ahead of our current tech on that.

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• Geometrinen_Gepardi@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago

  When sharpening knives, with practice you can tell when you are done by sliding your fingertips along (not across) the sharpened bevel. It’s possible to feel imperfections measured in micrometers this way.

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