All these copium defend the market takes, you telling me Tesla, a failed venture living off government subsidies, is worth 16x more than the hundred year old Ford that actually makes a profit without fraud?
Robinhood admits it’s just a gambling app.
Submitted 3 weeks ago by Dot@feddit.org to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.theverge.com/2024/10/28/24281883/robinhood-presidential-betting
Comments
Spiralvortexisalie@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
realharo@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
Tesla stock prices in the expectation that they’ll have robotaxi services and general purpose robots in the near future. And also that they will be leaders in these fields, ahead of the competition.
How likely/unlikely that is to happen is debatable, but that’s why some people are valuing the company so high right now.
Blackmist@feddit.uk 3 weeks ago
It’s also why he’s hanging it all on Trump right now.
That’s what he’s after - the complete deregulation of self-driving safety standards in the US.
technocrit@lemmy.dbzer0.com 3 weeks ago
Hi-tech tulips.
SkyezOpen@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
What? The stock took a huge hit after that reveal. It’s a cult of personality.
LANIK2000@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
“Debatable” is a heavy stretch for someone with a 0% track record when it comes to promised tech while repeating “we can do it NOW and it will be available NEXT YEAR!” for a literal decade. Robo taxies were supposed to be EVERYWHERE 4 years ago. Same with SpaceX, we were supposed to be sending the first people to mars this year, yet all Elon has managed was burn 3 bilion tax payer dollars for literal fireworks, as not a single “starship” managed to reach high orbit. Even the cybertruck is a cheap knockoff of what was promised. Not to mention the countless people that have died because he’s allowed to beta test his death machines in public. Can’t forget his starlink shenanigans in Ukraine, fucking warlord wannabe… Elon is the greatest scam artist in modern history, and it’s absolutely disgraceful that he isn’t behind bars, let alone valued at all.
Ilovethebomb@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
Ford are up to their eyeballs in debt, and they completely gave up on making affordable cars, which is the market segment that made Ford what they are in the first place.
Tesla actually makes vehicles normal people can afford to buy and run, so yes, they are worth more than Ford.
GiveMemes@jlai.lu 3 weeks ago
People can’t afford Ford anymore
Reality, in which the ford f series is the most sold vehicle for the past 42 years
Pick one
Ford is moving its prices upwards because people want and pay for what they’re offering, very clearly given the statistics we have. Also to say that tesla is the brand regular people can afford when both brands have ev trucks and one has a starting msrp almost 30k more than the other is kinda hilarious.
Lastly, ford has a vehicle with an msrp of 23,920 while the lowest priced tesla vehicle is 38,890 dollars. Even taking gas savings over 5 years into account, ($4,223 if you happen to live near my area and drive about 10k miles per year) the tesla is significantly more expensive. Clearly, tesla is not the company concerned with the common man. To make that point even more clear though, one needs only to compare tesla to the Korean and Chinese EVs that are being offered at significantly lower prices.
D1G17AL@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Tesla’s suck dude. Shut up.
WindyRebel@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
The whole point of this response is that a Tesla is not more affordable for most normal people because what they can purchase is influenced by initial buy in costs/their own budgets at purchase:
Most “normal people” have less than $1K in savings. A model 3 is baseline around $40K plus the infrastructure of chargers you will probably need installed to charge it.
A ford’s cheapest vehicle is a Bronco Sport or Escape starting at 29K.
Even with high credit scores, you’re talking at least ~$500 monthly payments even with something like 7K down. I know this because I purchased a new vehicle for about 30K within the past 6 months and my credit score was 815 at the time of purchase.
You have to remember that long term affordability doesn’t matter. Up front costs are influencing most “normal people” purchases because what you can afford NOW is what you can afford. There’s a reason subscription services see monthly or quarterly as their biggest buy-ins because cheaper up front costs mean more to the consumer who has to invest in the NOW despite the over time being a better deal.
scarabic@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
a failed venture
Bruh wut.
living off government subsidies
Are you referring to the consumer incentives to buy electric? Not only are these ending, but they’re some of the least hinky government subsidies of business in the economy, because they go direct to the consumer. Have you seen what our government does for corn farmers and big oil? Oh right, corn and oil: those other “failed ventures” LOL
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Tesla, a failed venture living off government subsidies
It’s not a failed venture precisely because it lives off government money. Show me a Fortune 500 company and I’ll show you a large stream of public sector receipts.
SomeGuy69@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Weren’t they one of those blocking early GME?
db2@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
They turned off the buy button when it was about to squeeze.
Snowclone@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Even before that they have been accused of not buying stocks ordered by users, then buying at sell order and waiting for the price to raise to sell so they get a profit. It’s been questioned a long time.
Telorand@reddthat.com 3 weeks ago
Yes and no. Iirc, only high-rollers got to have their trades go through.
fine_sandy_bottom@lemmy.federate.cc 3 weeks ago
Let’s be honest, most share trading is more like gambling than it is like investing.
scarabic@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I work for a publicly traded company and I have some visibility into what’s happening with our products and business. Then I read the Y! Finance page about our stock and it’s all weird math trends analyses and absolutely zero about our company, its fundamentals, and the future of our business. Stock trading is just a bunch of assholes trying to sift the sea to divine a magic formula. The irony is that their own behavior drives the price changes, so they are feeding straight into the data they are trying to read and act on. What a circle jerk.
dan@upvote.au 3 weeks ago
The market is wild sometimes. I work for a fairly large company. Sometimes in our earnings reports, we exceed EPS and revenue expectations (which is good), but don’t exceed them as much as some analysts think we’ll exceed them, so the stock goes down. The expectation is that we’ll always exceed the expectations lol
Allonzee@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Let’s be honest, our “free market” is a regular casino for the plebs that own about 10% of shares in their 401ks and Robinhood accounts, and an intentionally rigged casino for the oligarchs that own the rest, with marked insider information cards, and loaded market manipulation dice.
Gotta love when the bootlickers defend this economy, and market investment, as somehow inclusive, when 93% of stocks are owned by 10% of Americans.
(Saved Fortune article) archive.ph/DW0A8
BallsandBayonets@lemmings.world 3 weeks ago
It would suck if working class Americans lost their retirement money due to Wall Street getting what they deserve. But what sucks more is that our retirement system is based on letting rich people gamble with your money in the first place!
bokherif@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I guess it depends on your main goal. I started out as a gambler then lost a bunch of money and started actually investing. But at the end of the day every transaction you make can be called a gamble.
fine_sandy_bottom@lemmy.federate.cc 3 weeks ago
Semantics.
Sam_Bass@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
isnt the market itself exactly that?
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Long term market rate of return is positive (extremely positive of late), where as casino gambling is EV negative.
But options and futures exist as a short term hedge on equity investment. Combine that with the vig Robinhood takes on the front end in the form of higher asset prices, and you end up with an EV negative return - more consistent with high stakes gambling than equity investing.
Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
The way I explain it is it’s like a casino, where the market makers play and also take the rake/odds.
Stock trading is like playing blackjack, it’s hard to win or lose money quickly. Options are like slot machines or roulette, you can win or lose very quickly. But at the end of the day the people who control the casino will come out ahead of you.
Blackmist@feddit.uk 3 weeks ago
I class market trackers as investing rather than gambling.
Sure they can still go down (and by a lot), but it tends to be big events like COVID that do that, and it soon bounced back up again.
If you’re investing more than a few percent of your portfolio in any one company, you’re probably gambling though. And sure, nVidia look a safe bet today, but if Sam Altman comes out tomorrow and goes “sorry guys, this ain’t going anywhere” then you’ll lose over half your money before you can blink.
I wouldn’t invest on a timeframe of less than a few years either. It’s not for boosting your rent money. It’s just better than leaving your spare money in cash. If the concept of “spare money” is alien, then it’s probably not for you.
dan@upvote.au 3 weeks ago
If you’re investing more than a few percent of your portfolio in any one company, you’re probably gambling though.
I read a forum post many years ago about people that put all their retirement money into some company that was going to be the sole supplier for some components to Apple for the iPhone. Apple didn’t end up going with them, the company went bankrupt, and the people lost all their money.
In the end, why invest in a small number of companies when you can invest in practically all of them? Bogleheads three fund portfolio (total US stock + total world stock + bonds) is very simple yet will beat most actively-managed portfolios over the long run.
Flocklesscrow@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
Great. Now how about Citadel’s $65 Billion in securities sold but not purchased? Just kickin that can, eh?
Hard to see how the SEC and DTCC’s aren’t complicit.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Citadel commands something like 8-10% of daily market volume. They’re the textbook Too Big To Fail investor. SEC won’t touch them for that reason alone.
Flocklesscrow@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
I don’t disagree, but it’s the whole REASON the SEC was created in 1934.
If anyone needed further proof of end-stage capitalism, it’s this goddamn insistence on regressive everything.
db2@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
They must not be worried about pissing off Citadel anymore. I wider what that means.
bitjunkie@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
They’re almost there…
fpslem@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
I just want to tip my hat to Elizabeth Lopatto’s writing in this piece. I miss following her on twitter and had forgotten how spicy and on-target she can be. Good stuff.
Intergalactic@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Glad I stopped investing.
tired_n_bored@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Don’t stop investing. Investing the right way is the right thing to do with money you don’t need in the near future to prevent it to rot in bank.
Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works 3 weeks ago
Run by the types of people that used to run casinos…
taanegl@lemmy.ml 3 weeks ago
Bruh, wtf you think stock trading is? Buying into funds is just hiring professional gamblers to work for you, "insider trading* is cheating and dark pools is just the high rollers table.
fubo@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
In gambling, the house always wins, by extracting value from the players. In stock trading, the players (capitalists) collectively always win, by extracting value from labor, technological growth, and natural resources. These are not the same picture.
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 3 weeks ago
Excellent analogy. People who equate the stock market and gambling should go look up where the DJIA stood in October 1994. The slot machines in Vegas don’t magically start spitting out profit just because you’re patient, but stocks generally do over time.
treadful@lemmy.zip 3 weeks ago
Not all gambling requires a casino/house.
msage@programming.dev 3 weeks ago
the end result is very much the same
Geometrinen_Gepardi@sopuli.xyz 3 weeks ago
Stock prices at least have the possibility of being based on something substantial other than dice rolls. Derivatives, not so sure.
CmdrShepard42@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
“Possibility” but not an “actuality” since share prices are typically based on the feelings of major investors and not necessarily what’s actually happening within a company.
bobs_monkey@lemm.ee 3 weeks ago
It’s damn near a roll of the dice of what is going to come out of a CEOs mouth during an earnings call…