It’s going to be to their advantage to claim that they’re shutting down, even if they actually want that $50B buyout. If they say they’re going to sell, they’re going to lose what little leverage they have left. The public that wants TikTok will get TikTok, and they’re going to stop pestering politicians about it.
ByteDance prefers TikTok shutdown in US if legal options fail, sources say
Submitted 6 months ago by kinther@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
Comments
simplejack@lemmy.world 6 months ago
wise_pancake@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
I read it as a bluff too.
They’re between a rock and a hard place, their best position is to play hardball and rile up their users.
Yeah, it means nothing to us to leave. We’re losing money!
If that were really the case why are they in the US at all? Because they know they can make money and their market position is strong.
Cqrd@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 months ago
Because China is trying to influence the US and they need to be in the US market for that
Maggoty@lemmy.world 6 months ago
But they can’t continue to make money this way. It will be seen as control. So they’re stuck creating a competitor or just writing off the US market.
corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
The public [who] wants TikTok will get TikTok
In my family and peer group, the people who want to use tiktok and the people who could get and use a VPN to access a side-loaded tiktok app, has no intersect group. It’s just a bridge too far for all of them.
I’ll push them onto the fediverse yet.
WillySpreadum@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Worst part about Lemmy being a tech heavy space is that so many users spout shit like “They’re not banning it, just deplatforming it” like yes, dipshit, that’s effectively a ban for something like 99% of people. You think 100,000,000 people are gonna fucking sideload the app? Love this place but it can be a bubble sometimes.
wewbull@feddit.uk 6 months ago
Fediverse TikTok = TikToot?
treadful@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
The public that wants TikTok will get TikTok, and the public is going to stop pestering politicians about it.
Has their user base mobilized at all? Maybe it’s just because I don’t use TikTok but I haven’t really heard much from their users about the ban. Which has been kind of unexpected.
firadin@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Apparently TikTok sent out push notifications telling users to call their representatives. Minors were being provided instructions with their representatives’ phone numbers and contact info, but didn’t even know who they were calling and were asking basic questions like “What is Congress?”
Kind of shows the amount of power TikTok has over American youth.
Woozythebear@lemmy.world 6 months ago
…house.gov/…/news-rep-bowman-leads-20-social-medi…
You just haven’t been paying attention.
Maggoty@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Why though? Why would they give up their trade secrets? They have a global market.
simplejack@lemmy.world 6 months ago
They could sell the user accounts and content and let another company clip that into their own recommendation algo.
I’ve been a part of a few tech acquisitions that have worked this way. They keep their secret sauce but hand over the community.
rockSlayer@lemmy.world 6 months ago
When you’re forced to participate in capitalism, your only option is to play the game. I agree, this is mostly just a bluff.
BananaTrifleViolin@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Makes sense from a business point of view. Why sell to create a new competitor with the same technology and an impregnable market base in the USA?
Better to force US competition to start from scratch.
festus@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
I mean the sale agreement could require the buyer to never expand outside the US.
randao@lemmy.world 6 months ago
[deleted]viking@infosec.pub 6 months ago
Not really, they would still be operating the same business in every other part of the world, except for the US. So you’d then have US Tiktok competing with World Tiktok. They can’t be forced to sell the global operations due to a mandate from some American court, no matter how much they think to be the world police.
OldWoodFrame@lemm.ee 6 months ago
For money. Whoever buys it has to pay you for it. Shutting down just means leaving a gaping hole in American social media that some other company will fill and you’ll be in the same position but with less money.
FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today 6 months ago
Yeah I agree, there really is no incentive for a for-profit company to choose shutting down over selling. Unless they never cared about profit and had ulterior motives from the very beginning.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 6 months ago
YouTube/IG are hardly starting from scratch.
But they don’t have the international reach of TikTok.
FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today 6 months ago
IG is owned by FaceBook which actually has about double the userbase of TikTok if you don’t count DouYin’s 700 Million.
Buttons@programming.dev 6 months ago
Why don’t they just sell TikTok to a US Citizen who happens to believe TikTok should remain the same.
TikTok would remain exactly the same, with the exact same algorithms, but it would then be the free speech of a US Citizen so everyone would be happy. Maybe TikTok couldn’t send the data directly to China anymore, but they could certainly sell personal data on the shadowy data markets, just like every other US owned tech company does.
In short, why can’t China simply find a US Citizen or two to do their bidding?
yildolw@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Why don’t they just sell TikTok to a US Citizen who happens to believe TikTok should remain the same?
They already did that. TikTok is incorporated in the Cayman Islands with headquarters in Los Angeles. The bill of attainder is post-that
FiniteBanjo@lemmy.today 6 months ago
This is part of Section H of H.R.815 that was signed into law:
(A) any of— (i) ByteDance, Ltd.; (ii) TikTok; (iii) a subsidiary of or a successor to an entity identified in clause (i) or (ii) that is controlled by a foreign adversary; or (iv) an entity owned or controlled, directly or indirectly, by an entity identified in clause (i), (ii), or (iii); or (B) a covered company that— (i) is controlled by a foreign adversary; and (ii) that is determined by the President to present a significant threat to the national security of the United States following the issuance of— (I) a public notice proposing such determination; and (II) a public report to Congress, submitted not less than 30 days before such determination, describing the specific national security concern involved and containing a classified annex and a description of what assets would need to be divested to execute a qualified divestiture. (4) FOREIGN ADVERSARY COUNTRY.—The term “foreign adversary country” means a country specified in section 4872(d)(2) of title 10, United States Code.
So, no, they don’t just get to change their name. They don’t get to change everything and still send data overseas to China. They have to cut ties with the CCP or else they cannot escape this.
lud@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Why don’t they just sell TikTok to a US Citizen who happens to believe TikTok should remain the same?
Who? What USA citizen is prepared to buy something for the privilege of fighting the USA government with would obviously get mad and probably block the sale if byte Dance TikTok is still involved.
I don’t really follow USA politics but didn’t this law pass by quite large margins? They could obviously ban toktik.
Steve@startrek.website 6 months ago
Do it.
nao@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
EU next please
Geth@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 months ago
Don’t use it if you don’t like it, but don’t give this bullshit Ministry of Public Enlightenment and Propaganda control of something just because you don’t like it.
It’s just as bad or good as any other algorithm based content app like Facebook or Instagram. If we have a problem with privacy for example then go after that like with gdpr.
ultratiem@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
I think you have it backwards, in that it’s the US that’s trying to stop all the Chinese propaganda coming from that app.
And if TT pull out of the US, it’s pretty telling that their core drive for that thing wasn’t money.
dko1905@discuss.tchncs.de 6 months ago
I don’t think it’s primarily about the algorithm or “Public Enlightenment and Propaganda” but instead about data and company ownership. Currently the US and EU are far closer allies with each other than with china. Services that are owned/controlled by their countries are therefore prioritized, and competing services from non-ally countries are way more scrutinized.
wewbull@feddit.uk 6 months ago
We already sanction TV stations because of their propaganda content e.g. Russia Today. I see this as no different.
kirklennon@kbin.social 6 months ago
TikTok's daily active users in the U.S. is also just about 5% of ByteDance's DAUs worldwide, said one of the sources.
So much drama in the US over this but it's apparently merely a money-losing afterthought for its owner.
Album@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
It’s almost like making money is not the primary purpose of this website 🤔
whoreticulture@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 months ago
Or … maybe the US isn’t the only country in the world?
Woozythebear@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Yeah same with Facebook, Twitter, Reddit, Instagram, fox news, CNN, News max, Msnbc and every single other media outlet by that logic. Apparently any company not owned Merica is propaganda too.
Buttons@programming.dev 6 months ago
I’ve always wondered what would happen if ByteDance sells TikTok for $5 to a US Citizen who frequently visits China for lavish vacations, and that US Citizen decide to keep all the algorithms the same.
If China has an ulterior motive with TIkTok, can’t they just find a US Citizen to carry out their ulterior motive?
Heresy_generator@kbin.social 6 months ago
[If we can't swamp Americans with CCP produced propaganda then there's no point in even site even existing]
wise_pancake@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
This means absolutely nothing.
How much of their advertising revenue comes from the US. They have shopping, I’ll bet the US buys the most.
China already has livestream shopping, it’s still relatively novel in the US. Bytedance has to compete with other local competitors in China, hating a nice external source of revenue in the US fuelling these Chinese battle is a huge boon.
kirklennon@kbin.social 6 months ago
This means absolutely nothing. How much of their advertising revenue comes from the US.
To quote the article again, "The U.S. accounted for about 25% of TikTok overall revenues last year, said a separate source with direct knowledge." Honestly, I think that makes the case for shutting it down even stronger. TikTok isn't in some growth-at-all-costs phase in the US. It's likely near its peak potential userbase. If they haven't been able to make it profitable by now, that doesn't bode well for it ever becoming significantly profitable. Absent the legal issues, they think it's still worth at least trying, but as it stands, it's just a lot of money in and, just as quickly, out, with nothing to show for it at the end of the day.
ramble81@lemm.ee 6 months ago
“Livestream shopping” is that like QVC or something?
nieceandtows@programming.dev 6 months ago
Looks like they’re saying it’s running at a loss and is valued at $50b, so that Musk would end up buying it off their hands.
nondescripthandle@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 months ago
If they want Musks attention they should have valued it at $69b
Adanisi@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
I dislike TikTok but should you really be banning platforms we don’t like?
Sanction them if they misbehave, yes. Prevent most of the population from communicating using it? Absolutely not.
Americans have weird priorities when it comes to freedom.
Toribor@corndog.social 6 months ago
Congress believes it’s a national security threat which is probably true but they haven’t bothered explaining this to their constituents at all. Ideally they’d pass comprehensive privacy protection laws to setup standards that both domestic and foreign companies would be subject to. Then companies either adjust their behaviors and meet a certain level of transparency or they would be prosecuted under the law.
But no… We get this instead: a confusing and obviously targeted ultimatum with Congress telling everyone ‘trust me bro this is the only way’
admin@lemmy.my-box.dev 6 months ago
deally they’d pass comprehensive privacy protection laws to setup standards that both domestic and foreign companies would be subject to.
No, no, no. That would mean dismantling PRISM and the FISA. Gathering data on citizens is only bad when China does it.
Specal@lemmy.world 6 months ago
but chyna bad duh
bighatchester@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I don’t think most Americans want tiktok banned . Unfortunately the US government just does what ever they want and right now there is too much pro Palestine information on tiktok .
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 6 months ago
should you really be banning platforms you don’t like?
Yes, but only if that platform is Twitter
rusticus@lemm.ee 6 months ago
lol you think “freedom of speech” includes foreign adversary right to harvest American citizen data?
NeatPinecone@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Exactly. I only want my data to be harvested by the NSA. It feels more patriotic.
Buttons@programming.dev 6 months ago
If ByteDance is a normal company they will seek profits and sell for as much as they can.
But if TikTok is a Chinese psyop, they’ll just use any of the many legal tricks we allow to change the “owner” while China still retains control. Companies do this all the time, look at shell companies and such. It’s super easy for China to mask the true owner if they decide to.
This is why we should make broadly applicable regulations instead of picking on one specific company.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 6 months ago
If ByteDance is a normal company they will seek profits and sell for as much as they can.
If the sale is forced, the value of the property will be depressed. Why would they take pennies on the dollar to liquidate IP rather than fight it out in court and try to get the provision overturned?
This is why we should make broadly applicable regulations instead of picking on one specific company.
The law is not specific to TikTok. It is any company owned by a subsidiary of an “enemy” state, of which China is listed as such.
And selling the company to a non-Chinese holding company wouldn’t work, because the dispute is over Chinese IP law affecting how ByteDance does business. Move the company overseas and it would no longer be covered by the IP provisions (something the Chinese investors don’t want, because they benefit from the IP provisions).
ME5SENGER_24@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Does selling from one hand to the other actually matter when it comes to value? If I own a company and sell it to myself via a shell corporation have I actually lost anything, except a tax write off?
lud@lemm.ee 6 months ago
I take no stance on the psyop thing but is always selling the best way to seek profits. I say no. Unless they can sell and somehow force the buyer to operate exclusively in the USA. If not then there is still the rest of the world to profit from and selling their entire USA branch would suddenly create a new huge competitor.
Dearth@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Tiktok is used globally. Only American politicians seem concerned about the platform why would bytedance sell it when they can just continue operating in 180 other countries around the world?
RagingRobot@lemmy.world 6 months ago
It’s not available in China though interestingly
Adderbox76@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
Actually many governments are concerned about it. But only the US (so far) had pulled the nuclear option.
I feel like they’re threatening a shutdown in the hopes of getting them to reverse their decision because if they just quietly go along with it, other countries will likely quickly follow suit in short order.
The reality is that the lifespan of “most popular social media app” is incredibly short. In the space of a few short years, we’ve gone from MySpace to Facebook to twitter to vine to Snapchat and now to tiktok.
TikTok will soon enough be replaced by “the next cool thing” and BD knows that if they sell in the US, that new entity will quickly replace them globally because the US effectively IS the influencer market.
Viewers go where the content is, and that’s still overwhelmingly American (for better or worse). There is no successful social media app without including the US and BD knows it.
seth@lemmy.world 6 months ago
195
Omniraptor@lemm.ee 6 months ago
So was google an American psyop for pulling out of China instead of submitting to censorship?
ahriboy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 months ago
Then Weibo and WeChat will geoblock US in response to TikTok ban.
xnx@slrpnk.net 6 months ago
The amount of people happy about their government deciding to ban websites and apps is terrifying. They dont give a fuck about your privacy they’re just mad they dont control the algorithm. Now they can have people move to instagram reels where its easier to serve the propaganda the oligarchs prefer
natural_motions@lemmynsfw.com 6 months ago
[deleted]xnx@slrpnk.net 6 months ago
And facebook isnt? Facebook did experiments on teens to see if theyre easier to manipulate when theyre depressed. They took money to apread fake news to manipulate voters for the presidential election. Yall are so blinded by the china boogeyman its absurd
nexguy@lemmy.world 6 months ago
The u.s. still wouldn’t control the algorithm even if bytedance sold because they are not required to sell to a u.s. company. As long as the new company isn’t controlled by the ccp(or probably also russ, n Korea, iran) the u.s. doesn’t care who owns it.
SirEDCaLot@lemmy.today 6 months ago
This is obviously a negotiation tactic.
If ByteDance doesn’t want to sell their stupid algorithm, they could simply rip it out of TikTok, replace it with a random number generator or any other off-the-shelf recommendation engine, and proceed with the sale.
Find their lowest paid summer intern from the university computer science department, tell him to write some sort of recommendation algorithm and he has two weeks to do it, then whatever he comes up with make it live and that’s all the new owner gets.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
I doubt the recommendation algorithm is particularly special, the userbase is the more important thing IMO. However, any purchaser would need to implement something decent if they want to maintain that userbase.
mp3@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
So be it. The vaccuum it will leave will get filled by another platform.
xnx@slrpnk.net 6 months ago
The whole point of this bill is for mark zuckerberg’s lobbying money to finally get people to use Reels
Hildegarde@lemmy.world 6 months ago
This the goal of this bill.
elrik@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Good. Please proceed as quickly as possible.
A_Random_Idiot@lemmy.world 6 months ago
They’d rather shut it down cause they dont want to sell it and let an American company see how they use and abuse it to gather information and manipulate behaviors.
Gabu@lemmy.world 6 months ago
LMAO, apt name. You do know that facebook, a known disinformation company, is american, right?
ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk 6 months ago
As if an American company wouldn’t just pick up where they left off… have you seen Meta?
Jaysyn@kbin.social 6 months ago
That's fine, but I think they are lying.
And in case you don't understand, foreign corporations running FARA-unregistered influence operations isn't free considered a facet of "free speech" in the USA.
Tronn4@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Extremely hostile business takeover by the government.
Harbinger01173430@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Good, that’ll decrease the amount of stupidity in the platform for the international audiences to enjoy
rageagainstmachines@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Don’t threaten us with a good time!
xia@lemmy.sdf.org 6 months ago
This seems to be a pattern. Govts flex over tech companies, techs blackout a country instead of complying, repeat.
ObsidianZed@lemmy.dbzer0.com 6 months ago
I’m curious, is there an actual plan to ban TikTok? How do they think they can accomplish that? And just how easy will it be to circumvent the ban?
cheese_greater@lemmy.world 6 months ago
'Notha one Bytes the Dance
Omgboom@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
Tombstone-Well.Bye.gif
xep@kbin.social 6 months ago
Looks like it worked a treat. Do WeChat next!
breakfastmtn@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
Great news for Loops!
rusticus@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Bytedance announces to software developers: “Start your engines!”
ExfilBravo@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Bye Felicia
swayevenly@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Reuters.com blocking vpn now apparently
downpunxx@fedia.io 6 months ago
Lemminary@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Oh no! Anyway…