[deleted]
We totally won’t harvest your data.
Ignore the fact that we have political, state, and financial interest to do so, and that you would have no way of verifying or detecting if we did harvest your data, but you can trust us.
Just trust us.
[deleted]
Submitted 9 months ago by ForgottenFlux@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
Comments
henfredemars@infosec.pub 9 months ago
Contend6248@feddit.de 9 months ago
It’s not only interests of the chinese government, they HAVE to oblige legally if they are asked to. So even if the company has the best intentions, the government overrules.
And don’t make that a chinese bad guy argument, as if western companies aren’t doing the same, they just don’t do that officially, which one is shadier is yours to decide.
Flaky@iusearchlinux.fyi 9 months ago
ryannathans@aussie.zone 9 months ago
Aaaand there goes linux support
BaardFigur@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Who gives a shit, they’re 100% owned by Tencent
deweydecibel@lemmy.world 9 months ago
People that care about different things than you.
Difficult as it is to consider, I know.
smolyeet@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Linux was never supported
ryannathans@aussie.zone 9 months ago
Riot games official statement was that they were okay with linux players and actively went out of their way to make sure they didn’t get banned unjustly. They didn’t support linux as a software platform, which is why wine was required, but they did support linux players.
Rentlar@lemmy.ca 9 months ago
I gave up League years ago when every update the launcher broke, then required some patches done to Wine. I’d known yhe kermel level anticheat would arrive someday but maybe I’m a little surprised it took as long as it did.
AceFuzzLord@lemm.ee 9 months ago
If you ask me, it’s best to treat any program requiring kernel level access that isn’t part of your base operating system or something you created and have full control over as malware. All it takes is one exploit or something of similar nature and some bad actors taking advantage of it before it can be patched for your computer to become fucked.
r00ty@kbin.life 9 months ago
Well base operating system or hardware driver. There are exceptions, the pps driver for timekeeping makes sense to be kernel level too.
But games developers? No, they have no right to ring 0. I understand they want to protect from cheats, but they're just moving the battleground to a part of the system that results in blue screens/panics when it fails. And cheat developers will follow them there and even move to the hypervisor if needed, trust me on that.
xthexder@l.sw0.com 9 months ago
Not to mention MSI releasing a monitor with built-in AI to highlight enemies for you that almost definitely counts as cheating, yet there’s nothing they can do except ban the hardware all together.
Telodzrum@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Is this the death of LoL on Linux, then? It was possible to get it working pretty well a few days after every patch, but this will change all that.
KarthNemesis@kbin.social 9 months ago
For the forseeable future, unless someone is committed enough to making Darling work.
(Mac layer instead of Windowz, the mac version does not and will not have vanguard.)dunestorm@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Yes, if Valorant hasn’t been playable on Linux due to Vanguard then so will LoL.
Mango@lemmy.world 9 months ago
It’s the death of LoL anywhere. Only suckers will play it.
Kittenstix@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Isn’t that basically the entire player base anyway?
balancedchaos@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Different software purposes and all, but it vaguely puts me in the mind of the Sony compact disc DRM scandal.
wikibot@lemmy.world [bot] 9 months ago
Here’s the summary for the wikipedia article you mentioned in your comment:
The Sony BMG CD copy protection scandal concerns the copy protection measures included by Sony BMG on compact discs in 2005. When inserted into a computer, the CDs installed one of two pieces of software that provided a form of digital rights management (DRM) by modifying the operating system to interfere with CD copying. Neither program could easily be uninstalled, and they created vulnerabilities that were exploited by unrelated malware. One of the programs would install and “phone home” with reports on the user’s private listening habits, even if the user refused its end-user license agreement (EULA), while the other was not mentioned in the EULA at all. Both programs contained code from several pieces of copylefted free software in an apparent infringement of copyright, and configured the operating system to hide the software’s existence, leading to both programs being classified as rootkits.
^to^ ^opt^ ^out^^,^ ^pm^ ^me^ ^‘optout’.^ ^article^ ^|^ ^about^
balancedchaos@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Good bot, if this is how you earn your keep.
ichbinjasokreativ@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Another game I’ll never play 👍🏻
Kittenstix@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Eh, probably for the best, everything I’ve heard about LoL is that it turns you into a toxic hateful shell of a human.
End0fLine@startrek.website 9 months ago
I haven’t played for years so it may have changed, but yeah, the player base was not a very nice one.
heavy@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
That’s gonna be an uninstall for me, Tencent.
Horsey@kbin.social 9 months ago
It really confuses me why people would want to play a competitive video game that is balanced around profit. Riot openly admits to buffing and nerfing based on skin sales and champion releases.
squeakycat@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
Addiction, I suppose.
hal_5700X@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Another reason not to play LoL.
uriel238@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 months ago
Yep, a lot of recent anti-cheat is looking a lot like DRM.
harry315@feddit.de 9 months ago
more like intentionally installed malware but yes, 100 % this
Grangle1@lemm.ee 9 months ago
Not just looking like DRM, I would say it IS DRM.
tabular@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Is there an open source MOBA? Players need an alternative, even if it’s not as good to begin with.
ruben@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 months ago
I mean Dota exists. I guess I’ll switch to that. Or maybe I’ll just take a shower.
FunkyMonk@kbin.social 9 months ago
Dota was the OG anyway, LOL coined the term MOBA to shift focus that they stole their gameplay mechanic from one dude, icefrog.
verdigris@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
Dota has always been a drastically better game, I see this as an absolute win for Linux. League is cancer.
Mango@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Uhhhh no. Dota is slow and terrible. Not that I think anyone should touch that CCP spyware of a game League.
Sanctus@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Not that I know of, the most popular open source games I have heard of are Space Station 13 (and its newer release Space Station 14 on steam), and Beyond All Reason which is an RTS.
Zagorath@aussie.zone 9 months ago
If we’re talking about RTSs as well, there’s 0AD, which I tried out briefly during the period between Ensemble Studios being shut down, and the revival of the Age franchise with the HD edition (over a decade ago now, and it looks like 0AD has been under constant development since then).
loobkoob@kbin.social 9 months ago
Is open-source compatible with competitive games? As much as I love open-source in general, I feel like cheating would be a serious problem if the source code is available for everyone. That's not really an issue in single-player or co-operative games (outside of cheating leaderboard positions) but it would absolutely cause problems in a PvP game.
tabular@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Proving source code would reduce the barrier to entry for creating cheats, but cheats are very prevalent anyway. I do not want to make proprietary games so I have no choice but to find an alternative if I ever choose to make a competitive multiplayer game.
There was a MSI monitor at CES which pops-up a warning when an enemy appears on the mini-map in LoL. Significant cheats may be accessible without going to shading sites (perhaps kernel-level anti-cheat could have some success to figure out what monitor you’re using but my understanding is that’s easily fooled in software - and I think that could be unreasonable to detectable if you clone display via external hardware). Cheats which do not run on the host machine are undetectable by traditional anti-cheats.
I think the end-game of anti-cheat is intolerable. Can one get enough data for machine learning to determining if a player is cheating without a high error rate (banning false positives)? Would players tolerate having cameras recording their inputs like it’s a submitted speedrun or an exam during Covid?
Euphoma@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
osu! is a competitive game that is open source, and its arguably the most popular rhythm game right now and there’s not much of a cheating problem.
paraphrand@lemmy.world 9 months ago
It’s not so much that the source code is available. It’s that there would not be systems in place to ban cheaters, detect them, etc.
It’s open source, why would there be support teams and bans and all that?
paraphrand@lemmy.world 9 months ago
An open source and popular MOBA would have an even larger problem with cheating and bad actors.
Voyajer@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Security through obscurity clearly isn’t working anyway
tabular@lemmy.world 9 months ago
The creation of cheats would be easier in principle but maybe in knowing than then you wouldn’t design a game where you trust the client in the first place. For example; don’t tell the client the location of every (unseen/unheard) player on the map in an FPS.
Perhaps there’s an alternative to addressing cheating which hasn’t been explored. Conventional wisdom was pirates are basically people wanting stuff for free so you should invest in DRM to force them to pay for it but now some treat piracy as a service problem where they instead need to offer a better user experience. I think it’s worth investigating if some cheaters would be better satisfied with built-in cheats, and if some non-cheaters would be willing to fight some uneven battles if they knew that’s what they were getting into.
bdonvr@thelemmy.club 9 months ago
By that logic any sever running something open source like Linux would be more vulnerable than say, Windows.
BaardFigur@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Cool, I uninstalled League years ago. Now I’m definitely not gonna reinstall
blanketswithsmallpox@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Sell sell sell!!!
PlexSheep@feddit.de 9 months ago
This really saddens me. LoL is a game that will forever connect me to some of my best friends, I played hundreds if not thousands of hours, even through I have not played nearly as much over recent years. We even did go to public viewing of the world’s finals.
If they force this on us, then it will mean that my last game of lol was played months ago.
Devccoon@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I’m rooting for Smite 2! Very different perspective from League, but if it’s successful at fixing some of the ancient jank of Smite’s current decade-old engine, I think it’s one to keep an eye on as an alternative. It’s different enough to not feel like a pale imitation while translating a lot of that core game flow.
Junkernaught@lemmy.dbzer0.com 9 months ago
They can fuck all the way off.
Coreidan@lemmy.world 9 months ago
This won’t change much for me considering i already have a dozen reasons not to play this shit ass game
eestileib@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Well, that’s the end of TFT for me.
Eczpurt@lemmy.world 9 months ago
If you still enjoy the game, I believe mobile won’t require Vanguard.
SonicDeathTaco@lemm.ee 9 months ago
Mobile is such a bad experience though.
ExcursionInversion@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Meanwhile counter strike players are wanting valve to install kernel level anti cheats because it works so well in valorant.
Grain9325@lemmy.ml 9 months ago
It’s because VAC kinda sucks. People will rather have a functioning anti-cheat with more access than play with cheaters.
Contend6248@feddit.de 9 months ago
Vanguard is being bypassed as well, but users have now a compromised system to the lowest level possible.
So that isn’t the solution, i would somewhat understand it if no one is able to cheat anymore, but as long as there are hacks available you can give up on kernel level anti-cheat.
nymwit@lemm.ee 9 months ago
Can you run games like this in a virtual machine? Would that eliminate kernel level general invasiveness concerns because it’s a…virtual kernel I guess? Does that virtualization require too much overhead to run demanding games?
doctorcrimson@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Yes you can, but at the cost of performance and the risk of permanent ban. I believe there is a sizeable community of Valorant Players on Linux, which means all of them are using virtualization to bypass the anti-cheat.
nbafantest@lemmy.world 9 months ago
The LoL is only for windows installs rn
Chadus_Maximus@lemm.ee 9 months ago
o7 OpenSuse you will be missed. This has been a great blow to the Linux gaming community. Sad I cannot be a part of it after this change.
prole@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Wait, are you saying you’re giving up Linux? Seems like you’re saying OpenSUSE will be missed.
jivandabeast@lemmy.browntown.dev 9 months ago
People who play League are a different breed bro
dog_@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I understand people here are not that big of a fan for kernel level anticheats, but if cheaters are able to easily bypass a non-kernel level anticheat, what other choice do they really have?
AProfessional@lemmy.world 9 months ago
For the company its the best solution.
If you don’t care about your entire computer except for gaming its fine.
If your computer has any meaningful data then its just depressing that you as a user have lost control of your device.
tabular@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Is there a reason to think kernel-level anti-cheat isn’t (easily) bypassable? The next step is recording users and their input devices like a speed-run substitution or an at-home exam, which I presume could become (easily) bypassable too.
Are there any companies which have even tried to explored other options?
You999@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
Valve basically does that with their overwatch system.
dog_@lemmy.world 9 months ago
I mean I’d believe everything is bypassable, but I also believe that the Kernel Level Anticheat makes it more difficult to bypass, if that makes sense.
Codilingus@sh.itjust.works 9 months ago
There’s a company that has AI powered anti heat and they claim it is amazing, but also claim very few companies people wanna work with them. A hint that they know their player count would suffer.
r00ty@kbin.life 9 months ago
Because it just moves the fight to kernel level where the stakes aren't task crashed, but blue screen instead.
Mango@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Oh, so the company which changed groovy Zilean into a cranked out meth head to please the CCP, because they’re legally obligated to serve them, now wants kernel level access to every computer playing the most popular PVP game?
Fuck everything about that. China’s openly stated goal is world domination and they control every facet of their citizen’s lives, AND STILL HAVE MORE VIDEOGAME CHEATERS THAN ANYWHERE ELSE!
This has nothing to do with anticheat.
4am@lemm.ee 9 months ago
Touch grass
homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Bye gamers! Excelsior!
Jarix@lemmy.world 9 months ago
On a side note im delighted that someone with the username rooty is talking about unrooted things.
Am I a simple man who enjoys simple things.
Im also okay with this
Jarix@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Does anyone know if this affects mobile yet?
Gormadt@lemmy.blahaj.zone 9 months ago
Kernal level anti-cheat means I ain’t gonna play it
I don’t care where the company is based no game should be requiring kernal level access, that’s just opening the door for security concerns
treadful@lemmy.zip 9 months ago
I’m wondering if there’s a way we can even know they’re installing it. Windows just gives that generic admin prompt, I imagine? Tells you nothing of what’s happening.
RustyNova@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Well if you get asked for sudo, then that’s a risk.
markr@lemmy.world 9 months ago
You can list all the current loaded drivers. You can examine the system event log for service start operations. You can run with a kernel debugger attached and examine any loaded driver. The driver itself is likely correctly signed and will not require additional user acknowledgement beyond what was given when the game was installed.
admin@lemmy.my-box.dev 9 months ago
*kernel
Bazoogle@lemmy.world 9 months ago
Colonel*