Why doesn't the United Kingdom rejoin the European Union?

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨BackOnMyBS@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨nostupidquestions@lemmy.world⁩

Admittedly, I don’t know much about Brexit, but from what I have been exposed to, it seems like a decisively economical and political impairment that made travel and business with the rest of Europe more difficult and costly. Since it is so highly criticized as a terrible move, why doesn’t the UK just rejoin the EU?

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themeatbridge@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Many good answers in this thread (and some stupid ones) but there are a few critical issues that the current British government will not accept.

First, currency. GB does not want to give up control over the pound, and their previous agreement did not force them to adopt the Euro. There are several other EU countries that have not yet adopted the Euro, but all except Denmark are obligated to switch over once certain criteria are met. GB might be able to negotiate that privilege again, but the EU is in a stronger bargaining position now.

Second, immigration. For as much as their country is suffering from their own strict immigration policies, the conservative government is still making political hay out of xenophobia and bigotry. Reopening the borders would be a tacit admission that their rhetoric was bullshit.

Third, taxes. Joining the EU means contributing to the EU, and while their nation may save money overall due to improved trade relations, the conservative government has made the cost of admission another talking point.

Basically, the current government would have to renegotiate readmittance to the EU, and they would get a worse deal than they had before. Doing so would make it obvious that leaving was a mistake, and their government could only be consisered an objective failure. So they won’t do it, even if it is the best option available.

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- someguy3@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Why didn’t Denmark have to switch to the Euro? I can see how back in the 70s the UK had enough bargaining power to keep the Pound, but Denmark?
  
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  - bstix@feddit.dk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    It was in regards to the Maastricht Treaty in 1992, which was sort of the founding treaty of EU. In order to complete the transformation from European Communities to a European Union, all involved countries had to sign the treaty.
    
    Some of the countries just couldn’t legally give off this amount of sovereignty without a domestic election. Denmark being one of them. So, even if it’s a small country, it had the same power as any other country to obstruct the founding of the entire union.
    
    So when the election turned out a narrow “no”, it was a bit of wrench in the wheel. Denmark then negotiated having a few opt outs before they were able hold a new election which then gave a “yes”.
    
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- Treczoks@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  
  For as much as their country is suffering from their own strict immigration policies, the conservative government is still making political hay out of xenophobia and bigotry.
  
  The funny thing is that the UK now gets way more refugees than before, as France no longer sees the need to keep them back.
  
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  - havocpants@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Not just that, all these trade deals we cut with other countries means visas for their citizens. Net immigration to the UK has tripled since Brexit from countries like India. I’m sure the racists and xenophobes are really happy with what they voted for.
    
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- Fogle@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Those other countries still accept the euro though right?
  
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  - themeatbridge@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I think they do, but probably not guaranteed everywhere. Denmark might not, but I don’t know for sure. I know Czechia does close to the borders, but I haven’t been to the other countries myself to know.
    
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drekly@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
The ones who fucked our country don’t want to admit they were wrong.

The party that’s been in charge of our country has been dismantling and selling everything worthwhile for over a decade, and the only viable alternative is running on “we don’t want to change anything major, but at least we’re not those guys”

I’m honestly worried about what we’ve become and how everything is just getting worse here. Nobody seems to have any hope for the future anymore, there are no positive things to look forward to, just a constant spiral of rising costs and declining health and public services.

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- leraje@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  The UK political cycle:
  
  Tories elected because they made people think Labour were bad with money
  
  Tories stay in power for a couple of decades
  
  Rich people get richer, public services get shitter, prices for everyone else get higher. They coast along on a tide of right-wing populism for awhile
  
  Eventually people catch on, Tories get voted out
  
  Labour need to spend a fortune getting things back on track. Might get two terms.
  
  Go to 1.
  
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  - clockwork_octopus@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    This is also the Canadian political cycle, it seems.
    
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  - andthenthreemore@startrek.website ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    This is why we desperately need PR to break the two party cycle.
    
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  - TheProtagonist@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I guess they are currently at step 2 or 3…
    
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- andyburke@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  The sad truth is it will need to get much worse until conservatives will admit there is a problem and let progressives solve it.
  
  It has always been this way. You either live in a progressive, upwardly moving state with improving quality of life or you get stuck in a conservative, stagnant or downward trending place where people are more concerned with "others" than they are with doing anything productive as a society. As a species, we seem to slowly wobble back and forth between these extremes. It's maddening.
  
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  - Iamdanno@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    It’s in our nature to destroy ourselves.
    
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Ekybio@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
There are a lot of reasons, but I think it boils down to the people in charge do not want the embarrassement of crawling back to the EU.

It would be total ego destruction and that is simply untennable. This is what happens when the right gets enough power to make a change and then has to experience consequences.

Something something leopards and faces.

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- HawlSera@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  This is the big one, admitting it was a mistake.
  
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DestroyerOfWorlds@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
it’s like an unstable ex-girlfriend trying to get back together. and now she’s down on her luck with even less to offer.

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- idunnololz@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  UK just needs to suck a few dicks and we’re all good ;)
  
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  - Absolutemehperson@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Idk about you but I’m not letting Boris anywhere near my dong.
    
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Bjaldr@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Britain had a highly favourable agreement with the EU that it negotiated decades ago, for example being able to keep the pound instead of using the Euro. If it wanted to rejoin, it would do so without those privileges.

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- N1cknamed@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  [deleted]
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  - Treczoks@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    
    I find it hard to believe that the EU would deny any and all membership benefits for the UK purely out of spite.
    
    It is not out of spite. More like a “Fool me once” situation. Brexit has cost the EU a lot - not as bad as it is for the UK, but still. If the UK ever rejoins, they would have to make sure that such a shit show never ever happens again. If only to sell it to the EU members who all have to be convinced that the UK will be a good boy from that point on.
    
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Mon0@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
There are a number of reasons but the biggest is, they simply can‘t.

There is no rejoining, you would have to apply for membership again. That process takes years even if every member is friendly towards you, which in case of the UK is not the case.

A rejoining is also currently not beneficial for the EU. So they have little incentive to allow it. The drain of firms towards the mainland is just starting and the EU needs that process completed and some time extra time to flourish before they can think about talks about rejoining.

Another problem is the UK itself. While heavily divided, an absolute minority of voters are politically in line with where the EU is currently and where the EU is heading. So rejoining would be a hard sale in the UK.

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- gazter@aussie.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Does the UK still meet the requirements of joining?
  
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  - Mon0@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Unclear at the moment, there are so many requirements it is hard to keep track especially with the legal situation in the UK.
    
    They basically demolished some mandatory EU laws like equal pay. But then again there is no protection in the UK system and you can just change every single law with a simple majority vote.
    
    Some of the new trade deals could hinder them, since you can not bring all goods into the single market.
    
    The member vote is the real roadblock for the UK, the basic requirements shouldn‘t be a problem with the current legal system of the UK.
    
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  - NuPNuA@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    We’re still one of the top ten world economies, of course we do.
    
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bravesirrbn@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Screw England, let’s just let Scotland and Wales join without them

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- GiveOver@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Wales voted out
  
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  - funkless_eck@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    if we held the referendum again - no new voters, everyone votes exactly the same as they did before - remain would win simply because enough elderly leave voters have died since then that now it would swing the other way, so its likely is sentiment is not trending positive
    
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  - Wodge@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Regions of Wales with a large English retiree population voted out.
    
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- Dontfearthereaper123@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  U forgot abt northern ireland
  
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  - Wodge@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    That’s reunification with Eire, which is already in the EU.
    
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- KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Extremely based opinion
  
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- Madex@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Fuck you, what can you bring to EU?
  
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Treczoks@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
It would be smart, but their pride forbids it. Besides, when re-joining, they would start off like any other member, not as privileged as they were before thanks to Thatchers blackmailing. And they would have to ditch the pound in favor of the Euro, which would be the most painful thing.

But on the long run, they will have to come back. It is not a question of “if” but just “when” if they want to survive, and the longer they take, the more painful it will be.

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cley_faye@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Sure. There’s an application process; supposedly they can apply. It will take years, with a lot of conditions, and none of the previous exemption they had.

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bouh@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Why would the EU accept that? GB needs to make its mind about that. It had so many specific benefits in the EU, and it still left because an idiot gambled the decision in a referendum.

The brexit could have meant the end of the EU. It’s not something you can come and go on a whim. So GB needs to pay for its stupid decision, because the stability of the EU depends on it, no country should ever get the idea that leaving the EU is inconsequential.

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theKalash@feddit.ch ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Pride.

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TheProtagonist@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
It’s like thinking about marrying your ex-wife again, just after you went through an awful divorce, that took years to get accomplished, which you had insisted in. It would make you look somewhat stupid and the question is whether your ex-wife would let you move back in to your former house (i.e. the EU). Who knows…

You wanted it, you got it, now live with it!

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- CoderKat@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Sure, but in this analogy, your ex wife was great partner that was good for you and you only broke up because you thought you could do better. Only after your divorce, you realize you aren’t actually doing better on your own and want your ex wife back, but are too afraid to admit it. And also your ex wife might not want you back anymore (if she does, she’s gonna ask you to really prove you’re committed).
  
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  - dutchkimble@lemy.lol ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Yes but also you got all your mates and family together in one room, told them you’re confused and you don’t know if you should go back to her or not, and swore on your penis that you will go by the concensus in the room, which after a lot of debate they collectively decided that you should not go back to her.
    
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- Treczoks@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Not a good analogy. Really not.
  
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  - radix@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Why not?
    
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Vaggumon@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
They made their decision to leave, now they have to deal with the consequences of that decision.

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- havocpants@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Try to remember that almost half of us did not vote to leave in the first place and knew it was a mistake. The Brexit vote was won on the tiniest of margins mainly due to a criminal misinformation campaign. It’s fine to laugh at us, but all countries are vulnerable to this kind of shit.
  
  There was no mandate in that vote for the UK leaving the single market - something that those liars campaigning for Brexit said that we would never do. I firmly believe that all of the Brexit campaigners should be rotting in prison for the incalculable damage they did to our nation. Many people were tricked into voting against their best interests because they were told that leaving the EU would mean more money for the NHS, or it would protect their daughters from all the Turkish rapists joining the EU next week, or all the other total fucking nonsense the criminal liars told them through Facebook.
  
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  - bouh@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    That’s exactly the problem : you need to fix your country before you can join again. That’s how democracy works.
    
    The brexit is a tragedy, and I feel for those who didn’t want to leave the EU. But it’s done. Maybe your kids will be able to see the return of the GB into the EU.
    
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  - Pandoras_Can_Opener@mander.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    The thing is your electorate let itself be manipulated like that and as you said the perpetrators are still very much at large. It follows they will manipulate the electorate again and there’s no reason to believe the same demographic won’t easily fall for new lies. (Unless they died off.)
    
    This sucks for the Brits who knew better but it also means the EU would let an unreliable partner back in if nothing changed. It seems the pro Brexit crowd will need to learn the hard way that no really you were lied to and you still have to bear the consequences of your own actions (vote).
    
    Being lied to isn’t an excuse to accept racist fearmongering and plainly suicidal economic reasoning. Nor is it an excuse for the project fear slander that happened at the time. They were lied to and were also told the truth. They need to learn to accept ownership for their own guilibilty.
    
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  - Vaggumon@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Oh, I totally agree with how it happened, the point is, it happened, and a good deal of the people who made it happen , are still in power. The problem is no onw will do anything about it. As you say, almost half didn’t vote for it, but over half did, and there-in lies the problem. “they were lied to” Yeah, but they voted based on those lies.
    
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  - number6@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    You only needed a slim 50% to split? Not like a 2/3rds majority?
    
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rufus@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
It’s not an on-off relationship.

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Dasnap@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
My question is if the EU would even want the country back. Would you want to deal with a country that flip-flops that hard?

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- Ziggurat@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  IMO the flip-flop would basically kill any bargaining capacity from the UK. Before it was * but what if we leave, we’re stronger together and you have more to loose by letting us leave than by giving us a small concession* now it’ll be Why do you want any special concession ? You’re a new member like any other and have to abide by the same rules
  
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- CoderKat@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  IMO, it would show the power and value of the EU. The UK would be far more willing to admit that they shouldn’t have left if they can get back in. The EU stands to gain from such a prominent country (and one that can say so from experience) undeniably admitting that it’s better to be in the EU than to leave. That’s some stellar advertising of the economic value of the EU.
  
  Though they definitely shouldn’t bend every rule to let them back in. The pound should be replaced by the euro. It’s dumb that the UK got that exception.
  
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- severien@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  For sure. But UK would be admitted as a “regular” member, without many of the exemptions UK had before. I can imagine they might get the currency exemption this time around as well, though.
  
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echodot@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
It won’t happen as long as the Conservatives are in power. They’ve been pushing the Brexit is great agenda for ages and have finally admitted that maybe it’s not brilliant, but it’s still pretty great mind you.

There is probably going to be an election in January or February of 2024, because of the utterly stupid way that UK politics works there may not be an election, who knows, but if there is an election and if when the conservatives lose and labour win it might be under cards but it’s probably going to take years if it does happen.

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Candelestine@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
If I’m not mistaken, the pro-Brexit party (they call them Torys) has been in charge. If they want to move in a different direction, they need to vote different people in, which has not been happening very quickly.

Politics is complicated, basically.

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- li10@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  Worth noting that the true pro-Brexit party was UKIP, but the conservatives wanted their voters so adopted a pro brexit stance.
  
  I don’t think most Tory’s really wanted it to happen (bad for business), David Cameron thought he could get an easy win by holding a referendum and nipping the Brexit talk in the bud, but bit off more than he could chew.
  
  Brexit remained popular with voters for a while, and conservatives have leaned into it being the right decision and demonising immigrants since because they’re fucking up everything else.
  
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  - vind@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Many Tory’s wanted it to happen so they could create a corporation-haven of sorts without the EU having a say in it. Essentially getting rid of “annoying” regulations that keeps people safe.
    
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- redders@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  It’s really weird, as the whole EU deal was Margaret Thatcher’s legacy, and her own party threw it away!!!
  
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  - someguy3@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I think they wanted to play on the EU outage, but the didn’t actually want to leave.
    
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  - Jackthelad@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    The EU deal was nothing to do with Thatcher. She never wanted the UK to join the EU and vehemently opposed the Maastricht Treaty.
    
    She supported economic union, not political.
    
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  - rmuk@feddit.uk ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    I’m no fan of Thatcher but she did some good things during her tenure - negotiating the UK’s place in the EU and setting up Channel 4 spring to mind - and I honestly think she would be utterly devastated if she saw what her party had become today.
    
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Boozilla@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Assuming the UK could get itself together and find the political willpower to do so…it still won’t be easy. The EU has to agree to it, and it would require all members of the EU approving them rejoining.

As I recall, the EU warned them that if they left it would be very challenging for them to rejoin. The idea was to discourage them from leaving the EU in the first place. But they did. And now they have to live with the consequences.

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- Pandoras_Can_Opener@mander.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I really would like to see reactions from France if Britain makes moves to rejoin.
  
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brey1013@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Hubris.

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LanternEverywhere@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I'm not an expert in this topic at all, but there's a few reasons i can see. One major reason is that you'd have to get a big portion of the country to admit that they were totally wrong and got badly scammed, which people (especially that particular portion of people) won't allow themselves to admit.

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golli@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Others have already mentioned some of the many reasons why.

But i would like to add that even if they’d rejoin, they could not do so with the same conditions that they had before. Since they joined the predecessors of the EU so early, they had a number of privileges that a new joining member nowadays would not be granted. So from that side “going back to how things were before” wouldn’t be possible to begin with.

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Ziggurat@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Another factor is that the EU doesn’t necesarily want to take the UK back.

The Brexit, and other anti-EU movement in Europe do not come out of nowhere, there is a lot of issue with how the EU works, and some fundamental disagreement between members (and/or political parties within member states) on how should the Europe evolve (Just a big free-trade area, or a continent sized nation with a real political power and geopolitical weight), this is the context behind Macron talking about a Multi speed Europe

A big question is whether we should take new members right now (including Ukraine/Turkey/UK) or deal on the institutional issue and agree in which direction we want to move together rather than taking more people

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- Treczoks@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I agree that the EU needs quite some work to get their acts together. They will basically need a Maastricht II Accord that really turns the EU into an entity that is closer to a national state before they should admit new members. But I can see that admitting Ukraine is something that will probably happen within a very, very short time once there is peace.
  
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ZombiFrancis@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
I always figured it wouldn’t be the UK rejoining the EU if that ever happened. But thats putting the likelihood of there no longer being a UK over their re-entry into the EU.

Also they never adopted the Euro so they always had one foot out anyway.

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theodewere@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
it's being held hostage by very wealthy interests, who benefit from the chaos

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ObviouslyNotBanana@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Shame.

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someguy3@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
There are a lot of good answers, I just want to add that politics is slow. The whole question was a fight and caused division. The parties don’t want to engage again because both the parties and the population aren’t ready. It can really take decades for the effects to be felt enough and for the to be enough support that there is enough political will to take on such a major issue again. To an extent it’s kinda like facts take a back seat to the emotional will.

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nicman24@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
there are no stupid questions. there are however stupid people which most of the time are prideful for the silliest things.

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Jackthelad@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
Seeing as we were in the EU (and EEC) for almost 50 years, surely it’s only fair to give it time to see what the long-term effects are, positive or negative.

Governments can renegotiate elements of Brexit over the years which could improve things anyway. Maybe one day a government will be sensible enough to join EFTA, but I won’t hold my breath on that.

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- archiotterpup@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
  I can’t wait to see how this turns out.
  
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  - Devi@kbin.social ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    Everything is on fire. Should I run away from the fire? Or like, just give it some time and see how it goes?
    
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  - Jackthelad@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨year⁩ ago
    God forbid anyone suggest an alternative to rejoining, eh?
    
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