I’m so glad someone who can fight it is fighting it. They usually listen to companies more than people.
I’m saddened Democrats are pushing this before the midterms. They’re going to fumble this if they keep on this track.
System76 tries to talk Colorado down over OS age checks
Submitted 2 weeks ago by negativenull@piefed.world to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.theregister.com/2026/03/10/foss_age_verification_2/
Comments
mrodri89@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
douglasg14b@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
California, Colorado and New York now.
Honestly is getting insane.
Given how many states are pushing legislation like this and how quickly they’re doing it, there’s effectively no way to push back against it…
I do hope that they stop this bullshit though.
mrodri89@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Sometimes it freaks me out if I put my tinfoil hat on and start thinking that both sides are working together to move toward fascism.
Buelldozer@lemmy.today 2 weeks ago
Add Illinois to the list.
LiveLM@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Thank you System76.
clot27@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Whats up with these sudden age check laws being introduced everywhere?
phx@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Governments wanting to identify and regulate speech under the guise of protecting children
Archr@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The California law does not require age verification. Only attestation. From what I have heard the Colorado one is basically identical.
The NY one I have heard is more stringent. But I have not read that or the Colorado one.
Formfiller@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It’s part of the tech bro mass surveillance oligarchs and Israel tightening the freedom of speech noose worldwide
thermal_shock@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Hit everything at once, cause confusion and anger, distract from Epstein files and high prices.
Wispy2891@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Facebook is lobbying them so they don’t have to do age checks on Instagram and can maximize the revenue
deathbird@mander.xyz 2 weeks ago
Oh yeah why put age checks on a service when we could just put it on the whole freaking operating system?
underscores@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
it’s a checkmark on a politicians career without them having to do anything real
there’s many issues politicians will rally under if they see that it’s minimal work + huge virtue signaling potential (think of the children ! )
CrabAndBroom@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
I know it’s probably bad form to link to reddit posts here (but I’ll use redlib to it’s slightly less shitty lol) but there was actually a pretty interesting thread on r/Linux about this the other day. tl;dr: It looks like a lot of this is due to lobbying from Meta so they can shunt responsibility for age verification onto the OS and dodge fines for not regulating their sites properly.
prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Just a coincidence, don’t worry about it!
baka@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
Literally Israel
ParlimentOfDoom@piefed.zip 2 weeks ago
Thiele, the palantir/flock camera guy, who just so happened to be good friends with Epstein for many years as well, wants everyone’s computers broadcasting who’s an underaged user to every website they visit. He’s been one of the voices pushing this.
ThomasWilliams@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The mainstream media want to destroy the competition.
BigTrout75@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
The whole law is dumb. They need to create a standard universal method first. So when does this protection get applied? Can’t somebody just boot a thumb drive?
night_petal@piefed.social 2 weeks ago
Can’t somebody just boot a thumb drive?
This has gotten me especially curious about Tails.
partofthevoice@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
It’s a solution that seems so divorced from reality… I don’t quite understand how the expectation is reasonable, unless the goal is to force complaints to surface from the OS developers so that they can refine future versions of the law with more accuracy.
Because Linux distributions can be created free-willy. Just check out Linux From Scratch, Gentoo, etc. Same with live boot from USB, same with stripped down server distros like Alpine — you have the same issue.
Linux isn’t a product in the same way that other products can be regulated. It would make more sense if they defined clearly who this law actually targets, being something that is actually enforceable; something like this:
- Any general-purpose computing device sold to consumers that includes an operating system capable of executing third-party applications…
- All systems built after <xyz> date must include a MINIX subos that reproduces this API…
- All browsers with GUI must support integration with the API, if they also want to support viewing of sensitive content
- All porn distributors must validate age range via the API exposed via the browser, or refuse serving content
That at least makes some sense. In a way, it only targets PC distributors and porn distributors. The end user could still do whatever they want, but porn distributors may not serve content to them without the functionality described.
nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
what major websites start doing this weird browser or os based signature verification, tails isn’t going to work very well on them anymore
starblursd@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
All the other problems with it aside literally this… All operating system providers, including Linux somehow, are supposed to implement a system with a background API that can be pinged by websites through a method that hasn’t even been made yet… concept of a thing to your software that communicates with this other concept of a thing or else we fined into the ground effective in less than one year… Good luck.
Pssst Microsoft… pssst Apple… Don’t worry we’ll send you exactly what to put in your code. Just keep it to yourselves tho
Archr@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
How I understood it would be that the api could be implemented as an API contained within your os. So it would be more equivalent to comparing it to a system call like open file or allocate memory than a REST API.
Dultas@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
What about system accounts that don’t have a user? Super users? Automated installs? Embedded system? What age is the ec2 user in aws? There are so many questions that I’m sure don’t have a good answer in this garbage legislation.
thedeadwalking4242@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
There are SOOOOOO many ways to implement age verification checks. And this is one of the worst. What is wrong with people
frongt@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
It’s because the goal is surveillance
ThePyroPython@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
But who the fuck is actually introducing these bills? Which entity/organisation/individual/company are they getting the ideas from?
offspec@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
An “I am an adult” checkbox in your OS that gets propagated out is probably the most privacy centric way to lock down kid accounts right?
thedeadwalking4242@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
They want to require IDs which requires validation, which requires a central authority. Any websites you hit that require the check will request it from the OS which will need to verify with central authority. So they’ll know what websites your hitting.
Panthenetrunner@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
People responding to this are right about their actual intentions, but yeah. I think if you wanted to go about doing this the right way it would be an “I’m an adult” or a “this device is primarily used by a child” checkmark that could be locked down behind an administrative password.
That’s it. That’s all you really need if your intention was actually just makeing sure kids couldn’t wander into a part of the internet not made for them. Everything else, verification, that’s just surveillance bullshit being bolted on top.
Archr@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
But that is effectively what this bill does, just rather than a check box it is a date entry. There is no verification requirement. Only indication (attestation).
billwashere@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Greed and control.
ColeSloth@discuss.tchncs.de 2 weeks ago
Fucking raise hell and cause chaos. Age checks are bullshit. All while our government is filled with corruption and pedophiles. Maybe stop listening to such an immoral entity.
ThunderQueen@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This is the way. Come to the anarchist side. We have less cookies and a lot of FOSS
buddascrayon@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I really don’t understand what the value they see in putting age checks on operating systems. Like where is this coming from? Who whispered in their ear that OS age checks are something that need to be done?
TeddE@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
From what I can tell, the ‘age’ part is misdirection. They want to restrict computer use to the “good” people, to make it “safer”.
Using age restrictions first allows legislation to be passed “for the children” using the idea of potential harm to theoretical children. However, in practice, legislators expect the implementation of the age check to be capable of checking anything else they want to about your identity, as a prerequisite for access. Probably using a combination of face scans and ID scans.
nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
I don’t even understand what good this is. what does this do for them? The government has a database of identities and now it’s going to have a database of identities with computers? for what
Archr@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This is just the slippery slope argument.
The California law does not require verification. Only attestation.
JustEnoughDucks@feddit.nl 2 weeks ago
Palantir
We have unique digital fingerprints for everyone already pretty much, but they are not linked to official government IDs so there is still uncertainty I think over identification.
This makes everyone’s digital fingerprint linked on a government ID. Voila, now every person in America is known by Palantir and the government at all times (more or less). Great for genocide and targeting your political opponents and voters to set up sham elections.
It also tries to stop poors who don’t have drivers licenses in America from organizing as they can’t verify.
Archr@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Just want to clarify something about your comment since it feels like you have not had a chance to read the law yet.
(this is in reference to the Cali law but I am told the Colorado one is basically identical). The Cali law does not, in any way, require ID verification, it only requires that a parent attest to the age of their child when setting up an account for them.
This is not my argument for this exact law or any of these laws. I just want to make sure we all understand what we are talking about before going for the pitchforks.
utopiah@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
… or maybe we can finally decouple from OEM for OSes? Maybe could JUST buy a computer and not be forced an OS on it?
Sure I admit it feels nice to unwrap a new device, turn it on, set up few options and use it. Yet, the alternative it to turn it on, plug a USB drive on it, turn it on, set up few options, wait for 15min tops for installation to proceed and use it.
It’s actually a ~15min difference but it could bring so many good practices.
echodot@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
You can buy computers without an operating system installed on it but most consumers barely understand what a computer is and would think that a computer without an operating system was broken. So there never was much of a market and then Microsoft came along and paid the OEMs to install Windows.
Quite a few website will let you untick the windows 11 licence if you want to go your own way.
Unfortunately the Linux market is so fragmented that your average user is overwhelmed. This is not helped by the Linux community who in a general rule are not particularly accommodating towards novices.
iglou@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
his is not helped by the Linux community who in a general rule are not particularly accommodating towards novices.
Luckily this trend is shifting! More and more linux distros oriented towards users new to linux, and helpful communities.
reksas@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
being asshole towards less technically adept people about linux should become something that gets you seriously shamed. that kind of behavior hurts ALL of us by reducing popularity of linux and this reducing developer interest in supporting linux, which also means less drivers for critical components which in turn might mean your pc just cant utilize linux.
Personally, i have issue of internet getting randomly cut off due to too old drivers for my network adapter/chipset/not sure. The motherboard i use is one of the latest there is. This issue has apparently persisted for years now, according to forum posts about it. -> Someone else would just return to windows because this is quite insuffreable even for me. But personally i’m happier with malfunctioning linux system than correctly working windows.
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Unfortunately the Linux market is so fragmented that your average user is overwhelmed. This is not helped by the Linux community who in a general rule are not particularly accommodating towards novices.
Omg yes. I’m considering going to linux at home for my next system but when I look at my options I can look at 10 sources and get 10 different recommendations. There are a million flavors of linux now. Every time I look into the subject I see a new flavor has been released. I also don’t want to get comfortable with one version only to find out it isn’t supported or updated a few years from now and have to switch. My goal is to use it, not to be a sys admin in my spare time.
I’m tech savvier than most people so even talking about linux to the avg person is like talking about nuclear physics. Usually when I read a story about, say, someone’s mom using it it is because some very skilled linux fan installed and set it up for them.
You get beaten up for just bringing these points up.
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Apple IIs had the OS built into the ROMs.
mghackerlady@leminal.space 2 weeks ago
Where! Dell and Lenovo limit their linux options to a handful of laptops and their workstations, HP limits their linux options to a couple of their workstations, acer only provides windows, asus also only provides windows but is mainly a parts manufacturer so you could technically say you can buy an asus with no operating system. None of these provide a no operating system option (with the exception of maybe a few HP workstations that can be bought “linux ready”, but they don’t clarify what that means), requiring you to choose ubuntu and maybe RHEL on the super high end stuff. The only manufacturer I can think of with a definitive “No thanks, I’ll bring my own” esque-option is Framework, but only on their kits and not their pre-assembled models
Samskara@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
I like buying hardware, that I know is supported by an operating system. Although that doesn’t always have a good result either. I bought a small Linux netbook with an ARM chip, that never received a kernel update because of incompatible drivers.
utopiah@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
You can buy computers without an operating system installed on it
AFAIR that hasn’t been the case in most places for a while precisely because Microsoft made partnerships with OEMs to avoid that situation.
I believe new laws were added, e.g. in Europe, but I would be curious were this was the case. In fact I remember the opposite, namely that most computers one would buy always came with an OS, Windows for PC and MacOS for Apple computers. Even computers that one would buy in part that would be assembled for them from non OEM would also have the options to have an OS. In fact I’d be curious about example of fully assemble PCs, not just parts, that could be purchased without an OS before the law in the places where its the case now, would prove an OS-free option. Can you please share examples?
Chais@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
But then people would have to learn. That’s scawy 🥺
utopiah@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Learn about a tool that is basically in the middle of most of the crucial interactions in their lives? From receiving an email to vote, to booking an appointment to get a password, to working, to dating, to browsing an encyclopedia, to entertainment broadly, to creating music, to …?
I’ll stop there but yes, even though learning is scary I think if the safety net is clear enough (namely you just can’t mess up so badly your brand new computer won’t work) then it’s worth investing in.
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
This is beyond 99% of the population who just want it to work out of the box. This would be impossible with any apple hardware also.
Panthenetrunner@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 weeks ago
I genuinely feel like there’s an appriciable percentage of the population that don’t even know that other operating systems exist. For whom Windows is “the computer” and for whom even Apple being a separate operating system is a difficult concept to grasp. If that’s truely the state technical literacy is in with a sizable slice of the population, then it’s quite the hurtle even explaining the basics of what Linux is. Let alone using it.
adespoton@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Computers used to work this way.
You could even ship the computer with the USB stick pre-installed.
And this wouldn’t be impossible with Apple hardware; it has a bootloader built in that can boot from any functional and signed OS; could be Apple supplied, or something like Asahi. Or, with such a rule in place, they may also be required to not get in the way of installing other OSes and have to fully document the boot process and driver registration process, preventing signature-based lockdown completely.
utopiah@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Well 100% in fact as that’s NOT the definition of “out of the box”.
Asfalttikyntaja@sopuli.xyz 2 weeks ago
Most people today think computers like toasters, they don’t mind what OS they use or how to setup it. They want it to be ready to use right after they get it to the home. Similar as toasters or microwave ovens, you don’t expect to have to do any setup work for them. I don’t think it’s a good way to start using the computer, but unfortunately most people are that kind of people. That’s why Linux will never be the mainstream OS, no matter how hard you try to convince people to install and use it.
utopiah@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Linux will never be the mainstream OS
The SteamDeck prove that wrong, it’s already mainstream.
SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I wouldn’t buy a car if I had to install my own engine or dashboard. “You selected the x322 dash. Here are your parts and a manual. Good luck!” It shouldn’t be surprising if 99% of the population doesn’t want a similar experience with their devices. PCs and such have become consumer devices, not hobbyist ones.
quips@slrpnk.net 2 weeks ago
Linux for personal use can be undependable. I have a use case where I don’t mind configuring stuff, but once setup I need that shit to mf work every time all the time and it not working results in direct loss and depending on when potentially substantial loss. I say this as an avid linux user.
echodot@feddit.uk 2 weeks ago
Although in fairness Windows is not being particularly reliable in that regard as of late.
spicehoarder@lemmy.zip 2 weeks ago
Dead ass, just ship it with the latest Linux kernel, users can do the rest lol
Zink@programming.dev 2 weeks ago
For most of us on Lemmy, buying a PC with no OS installed is like buying a car with an empty fuel tank and/or battery. It’s ready to preform at 100% in about 10 minutes.
For most other people, it feels more like buying a car that’s completely missing an engine/motor/battery. They don’t even know where to start, even though in the case of the PC the process is many orders of magnitude simpler.
StuffYouFear@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Funfact, debit and credit card chips all have tiny OS’s on them. Guess its back to swipping mag strips
adespoton@lemmy.ca 2 weeks ago
Motorized scooters and eBikes all have OSes too — as do most modern traffic lights, speed and red light cameras, baby monitors, alarm systems, heart rate monitors, “smart” anything, televisions, household appliances, chair lifts, city water management systems, and pretty much all other actively managed infrastructure.
Your average car has at least three separate operating systems in it — usually a LOT more.
BigTrout75@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Does this mandate include OS’s with no GUIs? Are the asshats writing this aware that there’s more than just Windows and Apple?
njordomir@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Hey Guys,
I called a few of my state reps and senators about this. I wasn’t able to get through to Matt Ball, but I spoke with a member of Paschall’s staff who was very polite and helpful despite our disagreements. i also spoke to my own rep’s staff but they were not terribly tech savvy. As I suspected, to some degree, this is being framed as an attempt to introduce a less harmful scheme and set the standard before the feds or peer pressure from other states does. Apparently Paschall is meeting with System 76 soon and I asked her aid to let me know what comes of that. I still think it’s bullshit and it’s crazy to try this with a backdrop of eroding right, liberties, overreach of law enforcement, and mass surveillance of the American people. The Democrats can’t do shit for their liberal constituents, but they’re kneeling at the feet of the Republicans begging to cooperate anytime they want to do anything authoritarian “for the public good.”
Interesting thing about Colorado: we have a ballot initiative process to amend the state constitution where if a citizen collects enough signatures to get an issue on the ballot, we get to vote on it. I don’t know who is fighting against this legislation, I’ve done research and all I can find is the EFF, a few articles, and now System76. I would like to plug in to lobby against this sort of thing. How dope would it be if they passed it only to have us unpass it and collect enough signatures to get a constitutional amendment banning all identity and age verification and declaring that the power lies with the parents onto the ballot.
With that said, a tolerable outcome would be if retailers selling PCs into Colorado were required to include a bundled copy of parental control software unless the customer declines it. This gives parents the opportunity and a slight push to get involved. Do I need a copy of NortonAVGDefenderChildWatchProMAX to be bundled with every new NAS I buy? No. Is it better than the shit they’re proposing now, yes.
If you read to the end, please call Ball, Paschal, and the other cosponsors and let them know that the Democratic party is taking a huge risk by shitting on their constituents by pulling out such a controversial issue at such a inopportune time. Tell them to vote NO!
BlackLaZoR@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
PopOS best distro (?)
elvith@feddit.org 2 weeks ago
Are we talking about biological age or mental age which means that most adults are still just honey teens with just a tad better impulse control?
RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Lmao does the register really cite Reddit as a source, it was a cesspool off missinformation on the CA bill, I doubt it’s any better on the CO one.
Why not link to the actual bill like it does for other states?
It’s also wildly disingenuous to lump the bills that require verification and those that just require an OS store an unverified age and return it, but that’s what I’d expect from reddit.
Static_Rocket@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
There’s still valid concern about this being a foot in the door tactic. Once an OS complies with this request what will the next one be? Why should this even be allowed?
Either way though, the reddit citation is a bit unnerving.
Lucidlethargy@sh.itjust.works 2 weeks ago
It’s a gray area. If you have nothing to “protect the kids”, the feds might force it on a “non-compliant” state right now considering the fascism permeating our highest governments.
We’re starting to see desperate legislation more and more often. As a resident of CA, we had to vote FOR gerrymandering recently. It was disgusting, but it was direly needed to preserve democracy in the US.
RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Sure, but reddit (& Lemmy) hyperventilating about this as if the milktoast laws are the same as full retenal scanning verified by Palantir has completely destroyed any sort of sensible discussion around this.
Personally I think doing nothing isn’t an option and so the unverified age API approach is the least bad solution i’ve seen.
And much better than pushing the verification server side. The main argument I’ve seen against it is either:
slippery nipples means that at some point a different worse law could be passed, which is possible, but worse laws have already been passed elsewhere so if that was the intent they could have gone for it in CA.
Parents should watch their kids better, which is disingenuous as this is litterally adding a tool to help do that in a standard way, rather than some flakey survailance app.
njordomir@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
It has to be a foot in the door. If all they do is say apps have to do this, it’s ineffective at best. More than likely it’s dangerous because now you have built the gate and whoever comes after you can just hire the bouncer to stand in front of it (or rather contract it out to the cheapest shittiest companies imaginable). I can’t imagine this isn’t part of their plan because if wasn’t, you could still download an exe, MSI, deb, appimage, docker container, flatpack from anywhere and install it. Essentially the age game would do nothing except discourage use of the MS store, which is about the only good thing about it. :D
massacre@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I don’t want either. And it’s a slippery slope to the next stage, and the next. Eventually we will have no control over what we own and zero privacy.
RIotingPacifist@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
A local API is slippery nipples to a survailance state who knew.
Why use a computer at all, it’s the first step towards mass surveillance, better go back to the abacus!