Submitted 2 weeks ago by StarvingMartist@sh.itjust.works to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world
NTFS, fat32, exfat, could I theoretically create my own filesystem? If so would my computer even be able to work with most files or connect to other devices?
This is why I love Lemmy, I can ask this obscure, unrealistic question, and people will still answer it with the “yeah you probably shouldn’t but here’s how you could”
Building a filesystem essentially means linking a directory of filenames to physical blocks and handling CRUD operations. It’s not that hard. The hard part comes when you go beyond the basics to build something efficient with useful features. For example, fast access, journaling and fragmentation are all challenging topics. You can try without messing with the kernel by creating an in-memory filesystem (essentially a block of RAM) and playing with the I/O.
NTFS, fat32, exfat, could I theoretically create my own filesystem?
Yes. There are many different file systems and with a bit of work you can absolutely create your own. Making one that is reliable and performs well, and/or is something you can actually use for the disk that you boot from, is a lot of work and generally involves low-level kernel programming - not exactly a beginner’s programming project.
However, you can also more easily play with implementing filesystems in a high-level language using FUSE.
If so would my computer even be able to work with most files or connect to other devices?
Your computer can use many different filesystems at the same time. You can also store a filesystem in a file on another filesystem, rather than dedicating a partition of a physical disk to it. So, yes, you can use a filesystem of your own design at the same time you are using other storage devices formatted with more common filesystems.
Look up reiserfs.
You can do anything if you put your mind to it.
Like murder your estranged wife and watch support for your FS collapse, right?
Did I stutter?
That’s how those filesystems came into existence: someone designed them.
Yes, you can write your own filesystem, and use it on your own drives.
Yes, you will continue to be able to use other filesystems, unless you intentionally remove them from the system.
Lots of good answers, especially using FUSE for experimentation. One thing I’ll add is that if you just didn’t want to use any filesystem at all … you don’t have to!
At least in the Unix realm, a disk drive is just a bunch of contiguous blocks, and you can put whatever you want in them. Of course, Unix itself famously needs a filesystem for itself, but if you want to just store all your giant binary blobs – cryptocurrency block chain? – directly onto a drive without the pesky overhead or conveniences of a filesystem, that’s doable.
It’s not generally a useful idea to treat a disk drive as though it’s a tape drive, but it does work. And going further into that analogy, you can use “tar” to collect multiple files and fit them onto the drive, since a tarball preserves file metadata and the borders between files, but not much else. This is the original use of tar – “tape archive” – for storing Unix files onto tape, because the thought of using tape as working storage with a filesystem was – and still is – a terrible idea. And that’s basically the idea with a filesystem: it’s better than linear access.
Yes, but it would probably be a multi-decade, career-defining project if you want it to be any good. It would likely work with all files since it’s all just data once you get to the FS level anyway, but other devices would need an appropriate driver (that you would also need to write) in order to use it.
Note that I’m not an expert in this field, so others should correct me if I’ve got something wrong here.
Also, once you finish your filesystem, don’t murder your wife or otherwise people will stop using it.
Actually there are technical reasons for it being removed from the kernel, reiserfs does not account for the year 2038 problem
Oh don’t worry, knowing me, I would create it, use it for a single drive and never touch it again. Its the fun of creation that counts
Doesn’t have to be world changing or even practical. A project like that would still teach you a ton about storage hardware, how file systems work, programming, mathematics etc. Some of these lessons could even be useful, but above all, a project like this should be fun and interesting.
Why do you think people install Linux and run Doom on all the weirdest hardware they can find. This is the spirit that drives innovation.
Don’t let expectations hold you back. Make your own FS, and have fun.
Yes, you can design your own filesystem format and make a driver for that and use it on your computer
It would be insanity, but you could.
Basically: Filesystems are hard to make. Really really hard.
If you just want to do it for the fuck of it look at how old simple filesystems like FAT12 work and implement them in whatever high-level programming language you’re most comfortable, maybe with FUSE as others have suggested since there are beginner-level tutorials for that.
FYI you might be interested in WinBTRFS:
Which is basically what you are describing: shoehorning support for a new file system into Windows.
Linux also has all sorts of exotic and special purpose filesystem, like swap on spare GPU VRAM, software managed SSD stacks and such.
There’s also ways to support ext3-4 on windows as well. And FUSE is also very interesting as it shows you what kind of esoteric stuff can be mapped onto a fake file system.
Yes you can, for example here is how to use internet pings as a file system:
yarrick/pingfs: Stores your data in ICMP ping packets share.google/ydjcBAcA6koD0PuRt
I would really appreciate it if you could provide a different link.
Whoops here you go github.com/yarrick/pingfs
Yeah you could. Noone else could would bother to use your usb/hdd/ssd with your file system unless you gave them the drivers.
Creating a drive format is the easy part; getting it generally supported is the hardest part.
People have and do, but the effort is ridiculous and requires some very high-level computer science or computer engineering skills.
Yeah take a look at TempleOS and it’s filesystem RedSea.
TempleOS is a rabbit hole in of itself, RIP Terry.
Best i can do is cereal killer. Nom nom nom
Anything can be a hard drive if you are creative enough.
I prefer to save a .jxl to a bird
I mean, short answer is… yes…
But, eh, like. That’s a technicality. Chances are the task is something beyond typical individuals these days.
But we’re on Lemmy, and that comes with a huge selection bias. In fact, you don’t really find that many typical individuals here. A significant part of the population here uses Linux as a hobby, does something technical for a living. Possibly both!
I really don’t think it’s that far fetched to imagine that it’s possible to find someone in here who has the time, energy, enthusiasm, patience knowledge and intelligence to build a new file system. I’m pretty sure you can also find more than one person capable of writing their own drivers or libraries.
sure. But it’s a task that usually takes entire teams of highly competent and experienced people. Computer science, software engineering. Database management, lots of math.
Like ext4 took contributions from several orgs and numerous individuals over the course of years to develop. if a single person can do it, it’s the work of a lifetime.
Yea, I made a shitty one in my undergrad Operating Systems class.
Is it foss and can I use it on a floppy disk?
While you are at it, might concentrate on defects of certain fs you don’t like. Personally I hate the NTFS path length limit. XFS handles it much better overall but individual file names are much more limited because nobody thought about Unicode.
Also you could probably fork some fs like XFS.
A guy on YouTube literally made a physical floppy disk from scratch so I dont see why not.
Someone make the Lolcats programming language for a laugh.
Of course you could - someone made those existing ones, didn’t they? Now getting something else to read it, that’s the bigger issue.
Everyone answered the first part, so as for connecting to other devices, that’s a part of communication protocols which doesn’t concern about what file system you use.
Bluetooth will work with others as long as you have Bluetooth connection protocols, Internet uses TCP/IP, LANs use Ethernet, etc…
Semi relevant. Guy makes silly hard drives. youtu.be/JcJSW7Rprio
Spost@lemmy.blahaj.zone 2 weeks ago
You can! All of those filesystems you mentioned were created by people, and you can do it just the same way. It is, however, quite a lot of work to get something as good as any of those, let alone better. You’ve also hit on one of the problems - nothing else is going to support your filesystem.
If you’re interested in trying anyway, just out of curiosity, do a little research into FUSE, Filesystem in Userspace. FUSE is a tool that lets you write a filesystem without needing to integrate with the very low-level parts of the operating system, which takes some burden off of your implementation.
Semi_Hemi_Demigod@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
Google fails me but my favorite application for FUSE was storing files in headers of ICMP packets using network latency for persistence.
e0qdk@reddthat.com 2 weeks ago
I wonder if anyone has ever passed messages between spacecraft as a peculiar form of delay line memory – or pinged a satellite at a predictable distance as part of a timing system…
SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world 2 weeks ago
I love art
stsquad@lemmy.ml 2 weeks ago
So a network version of an acoustic delay line?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delay-line_memory