As electric bills rise, evidence mounts that data centers share blame. States feel pressure to act

Comments

• ulterno@programming.dev ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I see white roofs that can be dark themed to reduce the load on the grid.

  Wasn’t there a country with too much solar, causing electricity prices to fall too low?
  Do they not have any space left for data-centres?

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  • I3lackshirts94@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    That’s probably true but you only get ⅓ of a day on average of power. Demands are still rising so the other ⅔ of the day prices are higher and likely still averages higher on average for an entire day even if ⅓ of it is so cheap.

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    • hakunawazo@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      You could store surplus energy with batteries, pumped storage hydro power stations, gravity batteries and so on to bridge the gap at night. It’s just a matter of subsidies in the right direction and political will to get there. But currently in impending pre-war times it’s more like in a diesel-punk dystopy.

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• Bytemeister@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  My electric utility just arbitrarily added 170 (~50% of the total) bucks to my bill this month, despite me using 11% less electricity.

  The whole point of being a utility is to allow the “efficiency” of a monopoly without the ability to gouge the customers. Frankly, I’m looking to see if there is a lawsuit against the utility at this point so I can join on to it.

  Also looking into residential solar. Ideally I can just give my electric utility the finger and disconnect my service. Between them and gas, I’m paying about 400 bucks a month, which could get me a nice loan for a solar array, battery backup, and all electric appliances.

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  • swelter_spark@reddthat.com ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Where I used to live, the electric bill doubled after the city council voted to allow the electric company to charge customers for the cost of storm repairs. Nearly $400 a month for us. I knew people who lived there part time and were getting $200 bills for months when they weren’t living there and had no electrical usage. And people had been saying for years that the electric company wasn’t doing enough to prepare for storms.

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  • gens@programming.dev ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    And, funny enough, you would be doing them, the world, and yourself, some good.

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    • Bytemeister@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Yeah the problem is going to be getting the loan, and I would need about 1900sqft for the solar array, which would take up most of my yard. I’d need to elevate it up near the roofline of the house, so the entire back yard would be one big partially shaded patio. Which sounds nice, but I don’t think the city will let me build it.

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• phutatorius@lemmy.zip ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Tiered pricing would help.

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  • SkaveRat@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    It does

    The more you use, the cheaper it is

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    • ulterno@programming.dev ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I thought that was just a China thing and others learnt from them, not to make that mistake.

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• some_guy@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  And all we get in return are chat systems that make up bullshit facts. I mean, I don’t disagree that they can actually do some useful stuff, too. But the proportion of the public that benefits from them in any meaningful way is tiny compared to the cost to the rest of us. I hope a tornado lands on Elon’s gas-powered monstrosity in, where, Tennessee, I think? Destroy that shit, please.

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  • iopq@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Unlike this place, I bet most people out there actually enjoy Google’s AI summaries. I mean, it’s almost the Wikipedia article verbatim, but if you just need to know what a thing is, they actually save people time

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    • SLVRDRGN@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Our culture disintegrates every time we choose convenience over everything.

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    • phutatorius@lemmy.zip ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      The evidence so far is that the AI summaries have driven away traffic from Google.

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    • Lucelu2@lemmy.zip ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      It is not like I did not have access to that information before. I don’t need to be trapped in some closed browser environment labeled as “search”

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    • AHemlocksLie@lemmy.zip ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      And in return, they drive traffic away from the sites that collect the information in the first place, causing the sources to lose revenue.

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• MyOpinion@lemmy.today ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Don’t let the tech bros into your state.

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• SugarCatDestroyer@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  [deleted]

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  • ExLisper@lemmy.curiana.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    All the models are already too expensive for most people. Most people don’t pay to use them, billionaire investors do. When the AI bubble bursts our retirement funds will collapse and billionaires will simply move money somewhere else.

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  • pfizer_dose@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I’ve been thinking this for some time. It just seems completely implausible that companies like OpenAI will continue letting the world’s denizens use their product for free, what with the ruthless material requirements involved in it’s distribution and upkeep.

    To me it seems clear that the right to intellectual property and the right to work or contribute meaningfully to a workplace (as if that were actually a right) are currently being blitzscaled. I.e. these guys are running their companies at a loss to allow their product to become a necessity. Once that’s achieved you will no longer have the option not to use it and they will be able to charge whatever they like.

    We really need to begin pressuring states and governance to protect us from the predatory business models of these venture capitalists.

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    • iopq@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      They will just let people use some micro model that’s basically as good as the current mini one and call it a day

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• WorldsDumbestMan@lemmy.today ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  They increased their energy use to produce a provably inferior model. What the hell are they doing?

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  • AnUnusualRelic@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Raking in vc money?

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• Gerudo@lemmy.zip ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  This is going to feel like the recycle scam isn’t it. Corpos sucking down every last drop of energy while residential will be asked to turn up the thermostat in the summer and down in the winter so we “do our part”.

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  • mojofrododojo@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    literally passing the bucks to us: apnews.com/…/electricity-prices-data-centers-arti…

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  • Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    crypto scam, AI is the new crypto

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  • Modern_medicine_isnt@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I always ignore power savings requests. If they really can’t serve the population, they need to make more power. If we all turn down our usage to make it work, they won’t make more.

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  • piecat@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Always has been

    Residents in big cities have been experiencing it for decades at this point.

    ConEd saying “We’re preparing for the heat wave in your area this week. Please, limit your energy usage to prevent power outages.”

    Yeah, and times square is still lit up full brightness. The the skyscraper offices aren’t doing their part. Most of them, you can feel the cold on the street from their lobbies.

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  • Graymouzer@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Charge higher rates for crypto and AI. No one should be hot or cold so some asshole can make more money.

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    • Tja@programming.dev ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      That’s how prices work, yes.

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  • KairuByte@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    This has been the case for decades, why would it change now?

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    • Gerudo@lemmy.zip ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      It will be even worse than before. Texas hasn’t added any power generating capacity outside of the devil that is solar and wind. Solar and wind are the only reasons we haven’t seen the rolling blackouts for a few years now. Texas is even trying to make it harder to add more solar and wind, so it will strain even more.

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  • FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Rolling blackouts, my dude. Dig it.

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    • pfizer_dose@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I can dig it

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• BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Why isn’t the roof of that facility covered with solar panels? It might not provide all the juice they need, but it will offset some. Future facilities like this should be forced to install some sort of energy mitigation strategy before getting approval.

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  • phoenixz@lemmy.ca ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Of course it should be covered in solar panels but so should most roofs everywhere but this single roof would be less than a drop in the bucket.

    A square meter solar panel gives you about 100 watts while the sun is at it’s highest point, and only when aimed directly at the sun. Typically over the entire day, the average will be a fraction of that

    Meanwhile these servers use multiple CPUs that each take around 200 watts. A single server can take between 1-5 kilowatt in power. A single rack than carry dozens of those server’s, so you see that you’d need way, waaaayyy more solar panels to make up for all of that

    Again, not saying they shouldn’t. All buildings should have solar panel roofs, but for this one building it won’t do much to the point that the difference would be a blip

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    • Tja@programming.dev ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      A square meter of solar gives you over 200 watts for many hours of the day in realistic conditions in Europe/Canada, more in the US or tropical countries.

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    • PagPag@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      When’s the last time you looked into this?

      I just went fully off grid and I have a relatively large house and workshop.

      The panels I used, which are great but aren’t the absolute best on the market come out to about 231W per sq. meter.

      I have a 39kW system installed just for my house. It’s overkill, yeah but I plan for the future (telling the regional power monopoly to go fuck themselves for the next 30 years).

      Covering one of these centers with solar would absolutely make a huge impact. Not only by providing power during the day but also with keeping the building cooler.

      For reference, the panels I have (65 of), coupled with 100kWh battery bank.

      www.runergy.com/wp-content/…/DH156N8-30F.pdf

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    • boonhet@sopuli.xyz ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      You’re right about the general idea, but I think you’re even underestimating the scale here.

      I don’t think these servers will be doing much on CPU, they’ll be on GPUs. HPE will sell you a 48 rack unit behemoth with 36 Blackwell GB200s for a total of 72 GPUs and 36 CPUs. The CPUs are actually negligible here, but each of the 36 units use a total of 2700 watts (single GPU itself is supposedly 1200 watts so that would make the CPU 300 watts?)

      36 * 2.7 = 97.2 kilowatts. You put just a hundred of these in a data center and you’re talking over 10 megawatts once cooling and everything is factored in. So this is what, 100k m^2 of solar panels for 100 racks?

      You’d want them to be running most of the time too, idle hardware is just a depreciating asset. Say they run 75% of the time. 0.75 * 10 * 24 * 365 = 65700 MWh which I will not even convert to gigawatt hours to simplify this: The average American household uses about ~11 MWh of electrical energy per year. A single AI-focused data center without even all that many racks uses as much power as ~6000 households. They’re building them all over the country, and in reality I think they’re actually way bigger than what I mentioned.

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    • BarneyPiccolo@lemmy.today ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I get it, but you make them all do it anyway, just on principle, if nothing else.

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• homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  “States feel pressure to act”

  First of all, did they interview all the States? Secondly did the states say they “felt” “pressure” “to act”? And lastly, Bull.Shit.

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• tetris11@lemmy.ml ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  how can they get away with this? Are data centers not paying their bills?

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  • Kissaki@feddit.org ⁨7⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    When they make up a significant amount of energy usage, the demands for amount and infrastructure like production and transfer increase.

    They’re not a consumer like the others in that their impact is much higher than what they pay for in terms of paying consumed power.

    The article mentions data centers containing as much power as entire cities.

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  • homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Look up your local “Public Service Comission”

    Then note that everyone on it is a republiQan.

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  • BombOmOm@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    They are. The state has failed to ensure there is adequate supply to keep prices flat.

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  • entropicdrift@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Bigger clients negotiate bulk discounts, basically. But the other factor at play here is supply and demand. The higher the demand, the higher the price for the supply. Household demand has remained more or less the same, but because data center demand has shot up, prices have too.

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    • baronvonj@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      See, the data is right there to raise the rates on the data centers causing the rise in demand and not the households.

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    • chonglibloodsport@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      As prices go up it becomes more attractive to build more generating capacity. When capacity goes up prices will come back down.

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  • IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    even under the assumption that they do pay the exact same prices as normal citizens (they don’t). electricity prices will go up the more usage there is, as they mostly rely on limited factors.

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    • BD89@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Yupp just like every single other aspect of our living here our lives have been made worse to protect the interests of large corporations.

      Land of the free, and all that.

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  • Amoxtli@thelemmy.club ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    It is like Obamacare. You have a person who smokes, gets drunk, eats a lot of sugar, don’t exercise, you pay for their bill through hiked premiums.

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    • IAmNorRealTakeYourMeds@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      it’s my life choices that rise my electricity prices, i should have built a giant data centre to consume the equivalent of a whole town do the taxpayer’s would subsidise my bills.

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    • Lemminary@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Spewing more inflammatory bullshit again, huh.

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    • nexas_XIII@midwest.social ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Like health insurance isn’t already like that lol, lmao even.

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    • tetris11@lemmy.ml ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      isn’t that the reverse argument? Typically only <20% of people take the healthcare system for granted whilst everyone else pays their dues. Here, it’s everyone pays their electricity bills but 1 absolute behemoth of a customer hordes the resources, and instead of being cut off or denied service as would be typical in other services, they pay hand over fist to get first dibs on all resources, whilst passing off the cost to everyone else

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    • Jrockwar@feddit.uk ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      In the countries where healthcare has existed (and worked) for decades, there are additional taxes to alcohol, sugar, tobacco, petrol to cover for this.

      And also yeah, and I have no problem whatsoever knowing that a small part of my salary goes towards saving the life of people who wouldn’t be able to afford private healthcare. That’s called empathy - and I wish that’d sink in as well.

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  • silence7@slrpnk.net ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The way utility rates are set allows them to spread costs onto residential ratepayers instead of bearing it directly.

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    • cyrano@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      What? That doesn’t make any sense.

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• AdamEatsAss@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I live in NJ, USA. I thought I had missed a payment when my last electric bill came. Nope, just a huge rate hike. about the same amount of electricity as the prior year, double the bill.

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  • Damage@feddit.it ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Europeans: “first time?”

    My electricity costs must have tripled since the Ukraine war, not like they were low before…

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    • KumaSudosa@feddit.dk ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      As a “European” my electricity bill has never been as low as it is this year. I think it really depends where you live

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    • Tja@programming.dev ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Where are you located? In Germany it spiked but now I’m paying less than before the war (25 vs 27 cents).

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  • FinalRemix@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Were you recently told your bill is gonna go up again when they put in that massive data center in a year or so? We were told. ¯_(ツ)_/¯ no option to say “fuck you, make them pay their bills.” Nope. PSE&g was like “brace for it bitch.” And that was ir.

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    • jaybone@lemmy.zip ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      These taxes collected from tariffs have to go somewhere

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    • EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      PSE&G told some coworkers of mine their bill would go up by “as much as 20%” because they went up by 150%

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    • AdamEatsAss@lemmy.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I probably was. But I also just delete all their emails. They’re the only energy distributer in my area. Even if I contracted with someone else I’d have to pay their increased distribution rates.

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