Submitted 2 months ago by Gustephan@lemmy.world to science_memes@mander.xyz
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/18eac10d-76cf-4f70-ab77-0cb5e6181eda.png
Meme of two women fighting while a man smokes from a pipe in the background.
The women fighting are labeled “mathematicians defining pi” and “engineers just using 3 because it’s within tolerance”
The man smoking is labeled “astrophysicists” and the pipe is labeled “pi = 1”
as an engineer, a lot of languages (even proprietary ones) have a built-in constant pi variable because it is so ubiquitous - its easier and more readable to use pi than 3…
And then you’re using C++ and they scold you for including cmath for just M_PI because it increases compilation times.
We’re talking about engineers here! We’re using MATLAB or Python if we’re programming at all.
As they should, if that’s the only thing you are using it for, don’t introduce a whole header file, just put the following in the constants.h or equivalent that the proj for sure has:
#define M_PI 3.14159265358979323846264338327950288
I’ve also never seen a fellow engineer simplify pi to just 3, although I have seen a rise of memes from people who think they do.
I would slap someone if I saw them try that, it’s unnecessarily sloppy. 3.14 is the default, and trivial to work with if you’re using a calculator (I would also slap someone if I saw them not using a calculator). Unless you just LIKE having all your calculations be off by almost 5%. Then you’ll come back wondering why so many of your parts are out of tolerance.
As a retired mechanical engineer, the joke is that we don’t really remember the value of Pi, but we think it’s somewhere around 3. But maybe we should use 4 just to be safe.
In any case, I have to remember 3.14 because one of my Daughters was born on Pi Day. Which, according her, is the second most important day of the year, just right behind Christmas Day, when she was growing up. So when she got into high school that meant that we had to bring enough pie to be served in each of her math classes on that day. (Oddly enough she prefers cheese cake over pie on her Birthday).
Now I’m not saying being born on Pi Day influenced her life any, but she has a PhD in Mech Engineering.
Good news for her. Cheese cake is a pie not a cake.
This made my day.
Solidifies my preference for pie over cake
It’s called “cheese cake” not “cheese pie” so I don’t think so
Not according to her. And I ain’t about to argue the point with her…
You sound like an involved and caring father. Rock on, dude
Theres a YouTube video where the presenter demonstrates DOOM running (or not) with varying values of Pi that’s quite interesting: Non Euclidean DOOM
The last 4 years of my working life, I taught some math in my small rural local school. I introduced a tradition of calculating Pi from scratch by various “silly” means. All shamelessly stolen from Matt Parker of Standup Maths fame on Youtube. The students, (4th through 8th grade), were always highly entertained and may have accidentally learned some math…
When you least expect it, Pi is there.
38 digits of pie gives youv an error of less then a hydrogen atom in the circumference of the known universe.
From the article for anyone who cares, NASA uses 15 digits (3.141592653589793) because at Voyagers current distance from earth (~48 billion kilometers) that would give you an accuracy of less than half an inch.
As an Astrophysicist, I have never seen anybody use pi=1, you just leave the character, it’s anyway better to read, is not like you do any calculations by hand anyway. More common is c=hbar=kB=1, but that is not an approximate, is a gauge in another unit system. Also… Astronomy is not astrophysics…
As an astrophysicist, can you read me my horoscope? I’m a scorpion
Sure, give it to me, I can read it for you.
“is not like you do calculations by hand anyway”
… get off my lawn, whippersnapper.
Using 1 is fun. That means the circumference of a circle is equal to its diameter.
Isn’t this functionally true for objects on the infinite focal plane? I.e. a star? Betelgeuse might actually be huge in absolute terms, but from earth, and even in a large telescope, it’s still a pinpoint whose circumference is not meaningfully distinct from its diameter.
It would be the size of the telescope’s diffraction artifacts probably. Meaning the shape you see on the picture is not related to the size of the star but only to the physical limits of the optical instrument. This diffraction pattern is proportional to the color your looking at and inversely proportional to the size of the telescope primary mirror. The bigger the telescope primary mirror, the smaller the diffraction pattern and the more chance you have that this artifact will not completely hide the object you are looking at. I didn’t do the math, but I guess to image the actual disk of Betelgeuse, the size of the telescope you need is probably still science fiction, even with interferometry.
Euclidean geometry enjoyers in shambles
Computer science: pi is O(1)
Is it actually? I’ll admit im pretty rusty on time complexity, but naively I’d think that pi being irrational would technically make even reading or writing it from memory an undecidable problem
If you’re trying to calculate it, then it’s quite difficult.
If you just want to use it in a computer program, most programming languages have it as a constant you can request. You get to pick whether you want single or double precision, but both are atomic (a single instruction) on modern computers.
It’s a number and complexity refers to functions. The natural inclusion of numbers into functions maps pi to the constant function x -> pi which is O(1).
If you want the time complexity of an algorithm that produces the nth digit of pi, the best known ones are something like O(n log n) with O(1) being impossible.
It’s usually a constant (or several ones with varying degrees of accuracy and size)
It all depends on the precision you need. You could use an infinite series to the the precision needed as you go but for most use-cases it’s just a double baked into the binary itself, hence O(1)
They do? Why not provide some explanation?
Somebody else already said it, but that’s what the title is.
Longform: for a lot of calculations that happen in astro deal with distances so large so large that only order of magnitude changes actually meaningfully affect the end result. To connect to a more common topic, here’s a joke. “Whats the difference between a million dollars and a billion dollars?” “About a billion dollars” This joke works for the same reason; 1 billion is so many orders of magnitude larger than 1 million that (1,000,000,000 - 1,000,000 = 1,000,000,000) is only incorrect by ~0.1%, even though substituting 0 for 1 million in that equation seems ridiculous on the face of it
Also how you get classical physics from relativity.
Astronomy often has pretty high error bars on their measurements (distance, size of stuff, etc).
In astronomy, the important part of the number is often just how big it is (that is, the exponent). Multiplying by pi doesn’t change much in that.
The explanation is in the title.
It isn’t an explanation
I heard once π²=10 is fairly accurate approx and thus g=π²=10 in astrophysics where people thinks in order of magnitude, not value.
But my engineering ass is telling assumptions with larger than 50% difference may cause issues on order of magnirude and isnt it better like 5=1/2×10?
That’s because your engineering ass needs things to be physical and sane. Physics is a field for the mentally unwell to sink further into insanity while incoherently scribbling greek letters on every available flat surface.
On a more serious note, yeah you absolutely have to be careful about where you apply really ambitious simplifications like that. There are plenty of mathematical regimes where you can use natural units (this is the term to look up if your interest extends further) and simplify your reference frame by a hell of a lot though. Setting the speed of light to 1 is also a hell of a drug, and brother I’ve got an addiction
Electrical engineer. Never used 3. Always 3.14. don’t really get the joke.
I just use the pi from my calculator or numpy/matlab.
That’s close enough for radio. You can’t cut an antenna much closer than that precision, and it’ll stretch or shrink with temperature anyway. I guess the error could add up enough to be a problem in lengths of fibre optic cables, especially as they run at about c/3
I’ve seen some blueprints who use 3.5. I guess it’s close enough but definitely not too small
Strange. If you’re going to use a decimal point, why not the right one?
Electrician over here is killing the buzz
Electrical engineer. I’m nowhere near as useful as an electrician.
I use 3 ^16^/~113~
You’re a monster. I love it
Only basic math. You can convert Pi even more precise, but I think to 6 decimals is enough.
Pi = 355/113
I think you need this symbol: ≈
So this is just an Ai produced meme?
“Everything I don’t like is ai”
Grow up. The imgflip watermark is clearly visible in the meme, and it’s an ancient meme format.
This image is a two-panel meme utilizing a blurry, chaotic photo of individuals seemingly engaged in a mock fight and a separate photo of a person appearing to conduct a science experiment with a small flame, possibly under the influence of poor judgment.
In the left panel, the text “MATHEMATICIANS DEFINING PI” is superimposed over two individuals engaged in a dramatic physical altercation, one holding the other back. A third person, who is uninvolved but present, is labeled “ENGINEERS JUST USING 3 BECAUSE IT’S WITHIN TOLERANCE.” This suggests a hierarchy of concern regarding the numerical precision of π (pi), with mathematicians caring deeply, engineers demonstrating relaxed standards, and general chaos ensuing.
In the right panel, a shirtless person crouches and conducts a questionable experiment involving a lighter and a small pipe. The caption “ASTROPHYSICISTS” is positioned above their head, and below is the phrase “PI = 1.” This implies a level of approximation so extreme it borders on parody, indicating astrophysicists allegedly use such simplifications in the name of cosmic-scale practicality.
The overall composition is an exaggerated commentary on varying standards of numerical precision in different disciplines, presented through low-resolution imagery and humorous juxtaposition.
You missed that the image on the right is a zoom in of part of the background of the image on the left
“Questionnable experinent”
SARGE@startrek.website 2 months ago
38 digits of pi can get the circumference of the visible universe to within a single hydrogen atom.
10 digits gets the diameter of the earth to within an inch.
Thank you for subscribing to Daily Spacey Math Facts
exasperation@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Put another way, 10 digits means that your error will be caused by your imprecise model of the Earth’s shape, rather than imprecision in the value of pi.
FuglyDuck@lemmy.world 2 months ago
out of curiosity… does that first fact account for the continued expansion of the universe?
SARGE@startrek.website 2 months ago
It works at the current 93 billion light years of observable universe (46ish in every direction)
Zkuld@lemmy.world 2 months ago
And just two digits introduces less error than your terrible model
Test_Tickles@lemmy.world 2 months ago
Wow, what do you have against models? I mean, I know that the trope is that they aren’t very smart, but the same trope applies to firemen, so why pick on models?
Gustephan@lemmy.world 2 months ago
The real comment mvp. You deserve every positive vote my post got
alsaaas@lemmy.dbzer0.com 2 months ago
Thank you O’Brian, I hope you have finally done the DTR with Basir
Abrinoxus@lemmy.today 2 months ago
Earth is shaped like potatoe pi accounts for that??