That includes Windows, right?
…
Right?
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'We're done with Teams': German state hits uninstall on Microsoft
Submitted 6 days ago by Pro@programming.dev to technology@lemmy.world
Comments
dohpaz42@lemmy.world 6 days ago
windowsphoneguy@feddit.org 6 days ago
Yes, they’ll use Linux.
themurphy@lemmy.ml 6 days ago
Linux is great for government work.
They dont need compatibility as much. They have their systems only they use, therefore they can easily make them on Linux or emulate.
And there’s money to save. Benefits the whole country.
Vanilla_PuddinFudge@infosec.pub 6 days ago
Es ist wirklich das Jahr des Linux-Desktops
HeyJoe@lemmy.world 5 days ago
It says they will be replaced soon, so im assuming it’s phase 2.
mintiefresh@piefed.ca 6 days ago
YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP!
masterofn001@lemmy.ca 6 days ago
crank0271@lemmy.world 5 days ago
Yes, but only in Europe, and no Americans are allowed. 😕
Grizzlyboy@lemmy.zip 5 days ago
I get it! It’s a fucking terrible program. At the moment I’ve got two instances of it running, one old and one new. Why the fuck? Why doesn’t all the old things transfer to the new one?
It’s also a joke to maneuver. The different subjects have “hidden” subcategories that aren’t supposed to be hidden but are! So you have two extra clicks to find the folder… it’s a giant fucking joke that a company the size of MS can’t make this tolerable.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 5 days ago
Channels get hidden when they’re inactive for a decent amount of time. To see them you just view all the channels in a team. Not really hard. Can also just then tick to always show it. This is a PICNIC situation.
I’m guessing your 2 instances are the personal one that is included with windows, and then the work one. You can’t have 2 instances of the same one installed.
Zenith@lemm.ee 5 days ago
Do you like work for Microsoft or something, you’re all over this post
venoft@lemmy.world 6 days ago
I never understood how a huge government can’t be bothered to host their own nextcloud or whatever for a couple dozen mil per year instead of spending hundreds of millions per year on onedrive and other commercial crap.
01189998819991197253@infosec.pub 6 days ago
Legal liability for when the service, inevitably, gets breached. If the government hosts it, they’re liable. If the vendor hosts it, the vendor is liable. Simple as money matters.
dubyakay@lemmy.ca 5 days ago
So they could just use a service offered by (checks notes) T-Systems, Siemens, Lufthansa Systems, SAP, TeamViewer AG,… what’s that? In all these years these companies were relying on US service providers as well, instead of innovating? Well that sucks.
deathbird@mander.xyz 5 days ago
Spread responsibility thinly across as many organizations and departments within those organizations and across as many legal thresholds as you can to minimize blowback when something inevitably has to be held to account.
Akasazh@feddit.nl 5 days ago
Governments are usually inhabited by older folks, that aren’t too tech savvy.
richieadler@lemmy.myserv.one 5 days ago
Bribes, I’d venture.
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 6 days ago
I’m stuck with Teams in my job.
I fucking hate it.
richieadler@lemmy.myserv.one 5 days ago
It crashes, it loses things, it has a lousy search function, to automate messaging you need to learn one of the arcane and convoluted MS services because they deprecated the much easier webhooks…
When something fails (and it always does) we just say “Well… it’s Teams”, and that sums it up.
viking@infosec.pub 6 days ago
Same. I’ve come to terms using it in browser mode on Edge, same for Outlook. The desktop applications are so horrific, I uninstalled both. Half the time they wouldn’t work or force log me out.
Now I literally have a standalone screen that’s showing nothing but Edge with those two tabs on, and all my productive environment is on a nice large screen where I don’t have to see the crap.
Hawk@lemmynsfw.com 5 days ago
Any suggestions on alternatives?
Slack is ok but proprietary.
Element is a new and eg fractal doesn’t have threading.
FlashMobOfOne@lemmy.world 5 days ago
Sorry to say, but no idea.
We used separate applications for seven years (Jabber for IM and Asana for ticket management), and for me, that’s what I’m stuck with using Teams for, at least until Microsoft drops AI into and it eats itself.
HeyJoe@lemmy.world 5 days ago
I’m definitely in the minority, but i really never had or have any issues with Windows or Teams like everyone seems to complain so much about. With that said, I absolutely love that they are making this move. As someone who works in the area and sees the pricing and how much our company spends on Microsoft I find it appalling and absurd that anyone is willing to spend that much on licensing… I wish I could work on a project like this just to see what the savings could be overall.
MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 5 days ago
The worst part for teams is if you do contact work and need to be a part of multiple teams instances… It’s a MASSIVE fucking pain. Microsoft’s login processes are absolute infuriating and even more so if you have to log in to multiple different accounts that all somehow have the same email address but different tenants without letting you know which account version is for which tenant.
We had to use slack for our internal stuff so we could always be in contact with each other because you could only be signed into one teams instance at a time without jumping through crazy hoops.
I initially wanted us to move to teams but that hurdle stopped us. I’m kinda glad in hindsight.
10001110101@lemm.ee 5 days ago
Used Teams for a bit. Seemed fine, just used it like any other IRC clone. Didn’t use it for video. Windows has a lot of annoyances; death by a thousand cuts. The Windows ecosystem also sucks: to the point where graphic card and mouse driver installers try to install spyware.
ian@feddit.uk 5 days ago
Working with information today could be hundreds of times better if there were serious open standards. Switching away from outdated proprietary junk, to an open source version of that junk is great, but late. And, let’s hope, its the start of real change. To catch up to where we should have been decades ago if we hadn’t been held back by lazy MS et al. Digital information should zip between people and have real meaning. Not have to go through a thick layer of IT, and files and formats, and redundant copies, and silos and having to know tech to get things done. Peoples expectations are so low, they are satisfied with the crap we have today.
plyth@feddit.org 5 days ago
hadn’t been held back by lazy MS et al.
MS is not lazy but working hard to maintain their lead.
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 5 days ago
You’re way off here. Microsoft are the industry leaders in this space because they’re so far ahead of everyone else because they focus on this stuff. They’re far from lazy, they’re the opposite in fact. As someone who manages the whole MS suite from entra to dev ops all the way to managed instance dbs and defender and everything in between daily, their integration across everything and their pace of updates is insane.
What products specifically are you calling “outdated junk” and why?
rmuk@feddit.uk 5 days ago
I can also explain Microsoft’s straglehold on enterprise/government/institutional IT in two words: Group Policy. Nothing - absolutely nothing - from any other OS maker comes close to the granular level of configurability, customisation and flexibility that comes with Group Policy, not even ChromeOS or iOS.
ian@feddit.uk 3 days ago
Teams is just a copy of old functionality. It doesn’t offer anything new. Especially considering their funds and reach. Yet it just promotes the old document / paper world. I’m sure that is intentional. As they need to keep office going. The world should have moved on from documents by now.
merde@sh.itjust.works 6 days ago
do France next
homoludens@feddit.org 6 days ago
Why would we uninstall France?
merde@sh.itjust.works 6 days ago
Why would we uninstall France?
🤔
German state hits uninstall on France
😅
Bjonay@lemmy.world 6 days ago
Aren’t French authorities quite ahed on FOSS adoption in their platform? I.e. lasuite.numerique.gouv.fr/en
merde@sh.itjust.works 6 days ago
even the most sensitive information are collected through Microsoft and government sites use adobe too 🤷 Windows is the OS in almost all government computers.
not to forget all the WhatsApp use for official communication
facebook and xitter accounts of most government offices are still active
Schlemmy@lemmy.ml 6 days ago
It’s a cooperation between France, Germany, and more recently The Netherlands.
Schlemmy@lemmy.ml 6 days ago
nickwitha_k@lemmy.sdf.org 6 days ago
You love to see it.
Blackmist@feddit.uk 5 days ago
Teams is just an incomprehensible version of Discord. What’s the open source version of that? Matrix?
FreedomAdvocate@lemmy.net.au 5 days ago
Incomprehensible? How? It’s got team/channel chats, private chats, and meetings. What makes it stand out is, like everything else MS does, the integration across all their services.
It definitely needs some improvement, but “incomprehensible” it isn’t.
deathbird@mander.xyz 5 days ago
I would say “even busier” and “over-integrated” rather than “incomprehensible”.
Not to start a fight or anything, but it almost reminds me of emacs, because it’s like someone started with an idea for one kind of program, but they just kept adding and adding and adding to it. But emacs at least is free, flexible, long established, free, and quirky.
vandsjov@feddit.dk 5 days ago
Can anything be more incomprehensible that Discord?
Anon518@sh.itjust.works 6 days ago
I didn’t see what exactly they’re using for a Teams replacement?
Schlemmy@lemmy.ml 6 days ago
Open desk, is the office suite they use, I suppose. Matrix chat, perhaps?
Deckname@discuss.tchncs.de 6 days ago
It has an inbuilt messenger based on element, apparently.
mitexleo@buddyverse.one 5 days ago
Many are switching to Nextcloud Talk.
wingsfortheirsmiles@feddit.uk 6 days ago
It was barely tolerable, then they gated proper noise cancellation behind some AI privacy destroying BS. Excellent choice, fu Microsoft
thatradomguy@lemmy.world 5 days ago
Nice
redlemace@lemmy.world 5 days ago
At my work all but me love microsoft. But … They started to complain about teams too. I only use the chat because it’s impossible to avoid.
vithigar@lemmy.ca 5 days ago
Literally no one I work with likes Teams but we keep using it because that’s just what we do. Other options basically don’t exist simply by virtue of being either not Microsoft or not overwhelmingly the market leader.
fodor@lemmy.zip 5 days ago
So you’re saying that other options do exist but some companies don’t want to use them because Microsoft is very popular, which is kind of a circular thing, and I understand, but it’s a sign of laziness, not quality.
Knock_Knock_Lemmy_In@lemmy.world 5 days ago
At mine the person in charge of IT procurement is an ex Microsoft salesman.
SnortsGarlicPowder@lemmy.zip 5 days ago
My work hate Microsoft but don’t see a viable alternative. Microsoft is safer because of their stranglehold.
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 6 days ago
I want to say various cities/regions in Germany make statements like this every few years? And they usually end up rolling back when it becomes clear the cost to retrain both existing staff and new staff isn’t worth it.
That said: This gets the national security bump so maybe it will stick. Also nobody on the planet likes to use Teams.
PatrickYaa@feddit.org 6 days ago
Yes, but: this endeavour comes after/along with the development of a unified “open desk”, a replacement solution for the office and collaboration tools from microsoft etc, backed by the federal government. This ensures a base layer of interoperability between offices and makes training probably easier.
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 6 days ago
And if it sticks, good. But it still has the fundamental problem of needing to re-train all your existing employees AND train new staff who haven’t been brought up in that system.
Its on a completely different scale, but plenty of tech youtubers have done the “Let’s get rid of all the Adobe in my life”. Some succeed. Most tend to come down on some variation of “I can do about 99% of what I used to do in these two or three tools. And these ten things are actually genuinely easier and more performant. But we can’t take a month off making videos to get all of our editors up to speed. And this also removes our ability to contract out an edit to someone with the industry standard workflow”. And from my professional experience in different fields, that is true. Hiring someone and then spending a week or a month so they can use YOUR tools becomes a huge burden in not too long of a time.
I really hope Germany pulls it off this time and more governments follow. But I also remember all the other times I have read this story.
barsoap@lemm.ee 5 days ago
I wouldn’t count on the federation they’ve been doing nothing all these years. Schleswig-Holstein law has favoured FLOSS solutions since 2009 (“where technically possible and economical”), and bits and pieces were introduced as early as 2012. ZenDiS exists since 2022, opendesk is based on dPhoenixSuite, work done by Dataport precisely for Schleswig-Holstein, and they’re still doing most of the development work. More importantly though I’m not seeing any political commitment on the federal level, the Bundeswehr switching over because they care about stuff doesn’t mean that the, what, finance ministry cares.
MITM0@lemmy.world 5 days ago
What was the alternative they chose ?
kilgore_trout@feddit.it 5 days ago
It doesn’t say, but seems to be an ad-hoc solution.
Halcyon@discuss.tchncs.de 5 days ago
This process started in 2021 already.
They will use GNU/Linux, LibreOffice, Nextcloud, Open Xchange/Thunderbird and Univention AD-Connector.
Thief@lemmy.myserv.one 6 days ago
I took a look and its quite complicated to install requiring a very complex kubernates clustwr. Unclear why it is so disparate when something like nextcloud can be single containerised. I feel like this could be simplified for deployment.
nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com 5 days ago
I’ve used them all pretty much and it’s a really shitty product
Ulrich@feddit.org 6 days ago
You should read the whole thing but this is the important bit
They also blame Trump which is pretty hilarious but probably not terribly relevant to the community.
Bruncvik@lemmy.world 6 days ago
Trump’s executive order forced Microsoft to disable access for ICC’s Chief Prosecutor. So, in a sense, Trump is indeed a threat to digital sovereignty.
Ulrich@feddit.org 6 days ago
Oh, he is a threat to all types of sovereignty, in every way.