Bluesky has started honoring takedown requests from Turkish government

Submitted ⁨⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨boramalper@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨technology@lemmy.world⁩

https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/9ab1267f-df9f-47f6-98f2-d4d0878389a9.jpeg

Email from Bluesky in the screenshot linked:

Hi there,

We are writing to inform you that we have received a formal request from a legal authority in Turkey regarding the removal of your account associated with the following handle (@carekavga.bsky.social) on Bluesky.

The legal authority has claimed that this content violates local laws in Turkey. As a result, we are required to review the request in accordance with local regulations and Bluesky’s policies.

Following a thorough review, we have determined that the content in question violates local laws in Turkey, as outlined in the legal request. In compliance with these legal provisions, we have restricted access to your account for users.

source

Comments

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ImmersiveMatthew@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Funny as I got downvoted to oblivion for saying Bluesky was not really decentralized.

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- brot@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
  A decentralized service like Mastodon will have the same issues when governments are knocking on the door. The turkish government totally can force all those small turkish instance admins to defederate instances who are not reacting to legal threats. And all those small admins don’t have the resources to fight a lengthy legal battle against their own government
  
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  - tauren@lemm.ee ⁨29⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
    But they can use some other instance. With centralized platforms the issue is that they want to do business everywhere. Russia threatened to arrest Google employees in Moscow, for instance. Even without such threats, they want to have access to local markets. That isn’t a concern for some instance in Ireland that is supported by donations.
    
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  - buddascrayon@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
    The flip side of that is that instances large and small outside of the influence of the government can do as they please and people can use other means, like VPNs, to access them.
    
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- Natanael@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
  The content is still accessible, just not via the official Bluesky servers from that region, with content addressing and signatures you can even be certain that mirror sites haven’t modified any content.
  
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  - Paranoidfactoid@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
    Where are those alternative servers?
    
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  - ubergeek@lemmy.today ⁨41⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
    So, just like Twitter, then? When the official servers don’t show whatever the government tells them not to show?
    
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ICastFist@programming.dev ⁨54⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
Just yesterday I saw a post on lemmy that said that turkish xitter users were migrating to bluesky. Didn’t bother opening to see the comments or read it. Seeing this now, all I can think is “well, what did they expect?”

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simsalabim@lemmy.world ⁨42⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
If I understand this correctly, then this restriction only applies to Turkey. Which is exactly what you’d expect. If you violate local laws, then there are local restrictions. On a global level, everyone else can still interact with you.

Have I understood this correctly?

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teslasaur@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
Funny. Thats what the turks voted for.

But thats none of my business.

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- whirlpoolbrewer@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨minute⁩ ago
  No, you can’t go back to Constantinople
  
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meldrik@lemmy.wtf ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
If only there was a decentralised alternative, that was more or less immune to this… LOL

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- MajesticElevator@lemmy.zip ⁨44⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
  How would decentralized alternatives be immune to this?
  
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  - meldrik@lemmy.wtf ⁨38⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
    Bluesky doesn’t work if the IP gets blocked in Turkey, but with Mastodon, you would have to ban every single IP from every Mastodon instance and potentially all other IPs on the Fediverse.
    
    Let’s say Turkey blocks mastodon.social. Now people in Turkey can’t access Mastodon.social under normal circumstances, but they can still access fosstodon.org, mstdn.social etc. and access the content from Mastodon.social through those other sites.
    
    Only issue could be media uploaded to Mastodon.social, that’s blocked, unless it has been cached by the website you use.
    
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- xavier666@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I’m afraid a federated micro-blogging website using ActivityPub doesn’t/can’t exist ;_;
  
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  - meldrik@lemmy.wtf ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    /s?
    
    There’s Mastodon and a ton of others.
    
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quack@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Did anyone actually expect Bluesky to be different to any other corporate-run social media platform? What was the point of jumping from one to another?

Just more proof that FOSS and proper decentralisation are the only things that will save us.

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Simulation6@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I believe there are laws in the EU that would be violated by many rightwing posts (such as glorifying nazis in Germany). The litmus test would be if a complaint about these violations would cause an account to be banned.

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- ubergeek@lemmy.today ⁨40⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
  They never do.
  
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ZMoney@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
So now we’ll have a whole plethora of social networks for everyone to isolate into their own bubbles essentially because our global leadership is comprised of children who can’t play nicely with each other. Sounds good, sign me up for TurkmeniNet.

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toy_boat_toy_boat@lemmy.world ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
pardon my ignorance, but how is a de-centralized and de-federated online community bound to such annoyances?

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- sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Assuming you are serious:
  
  Bluesky is … arguably ‘federated’, but it is centralized, not decentralized.
  
  gigazine.net/…/20241128-bluesky-decentralization
  
  Their model (AT Protocol) relies on a central, authoritative … ‘Relay’, that all ‘federated’ users and posts on federated PDS (personal data servers) must go through, to actually reach the ‘AppView’, ie, what people can actually see.
  
  So, this is not a many to many, tangled spider web of connections, the way lemmy other parts of the actual fediverse are.
  
  It is a top down hierarchy, a pyramid.
  
  And Bluesky runs the Relay, the chokepoint.
  
  If Bluesky cuts off the PDS your account is on, everyone on it is now gone.
  
  The actual fediverse, Mastadon, Lemmy, etc, runs on ActivityPub.
  
  In that model… every instance is essentially self contained, and every instance that is federated communicates with every other instance that is federated.
  
  Each instance can decide what other instances they want to federate with… and users on each instance can personally block other users, communities, or entire instances if they choose to, but that only effects them
  
  That is what you call decentralized, approaching, or also having elements of being ‘distributed’.
  
  To bring up an example without getting into the drama that led to it:
  
  The ‘Tankie Triad’ of ml, lemmygrad and hexbear have had a number of other instances defederate from them.
  
  But, there are also a good number of instances that have not done so.
  
  So that means if your account is on hexbear… you can’t see or post on an instamce that has blocked your instance.
  
  But, if you (a hexbear…ian?), post on a neutral instance… users on that neutral instance will see the post.
  
  But but, if a user from an instance that has defederated from hexbear goes to to the neutral instance… they will not see the hexbearian’s post.
  
  This sounds complicated, and it is, but … thats the whole point of a decentralized system. It is more complex in the abstract… but the entire system ends up being more robust, more adaptable, more customizable… without a central authority in direct control of the entire system.
  
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  - toy_boat_toy_boat@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    i was asking in good faith, and i can’t thank you enough for providing such a thorough and effective answer.
    
    it almost sounds like bluesky is just a baby twitter in the making, and it’ll probably end up the same way. i’m really digging the actual fediverse thing, mainly because it seems to be one of the only places that money and vc bs hasn’t been able to touch.
    
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  - merdaverse@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    That Relay chokepoint is a serious architecture flaw, even for the central company running it (Bluesky). They might fix it in the future, but I doubt it’s high priority for them.
    
    In July 2024, running a Relay on ATProto already required 1 terabyte of storage. But more alarmingly, just a four months later in November 2024, running a relay now requires approximately 5 terabytes of storage dustycloud.org/…/how-decentralized-is-bluesky/
    
    The cost of running a full-network, fully archiving relay has increased over time. After recent growth, our out-of-box relay implementation (bigsky) requires on the order of 16 TBytes of fast NVMe disk, and that will grow proportional to content in the network. We have plans and paths forward to reducing costs (including Jetstream and other tooling). whtwnd.com/bnewbold.net/3lbvbtqrg5t2t
    
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  - Imgonnatrythis@sh.itjust.works ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    So the decentralized version makes sense to me. The blue sky model you describe sounds like just farming out the server load. What am I missing?
    
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  - LeninsOvaries@lemmy.cafe ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    This is anarchist propaganda, by the way. Hexbear users (also known as pig poopers to those of us inside the community) know that centralised authority is the only way to run things fairly. Look at what the anarchist Fediverse has done to our movement - dozens of large instances have defederated us pig poopers and our friends in the rest of the Only True Socialist Triad. It’s a disgrace. Our admins are currently in the process of setting up a BlueSky relay on pigpoop.balls
    
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  - oakward@feddit.org ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    What is the advantage of Bluesky’s model over Xitter? Are they just outsourcing servers while still holding censorship and manipulation power?
    
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  - troybot@midwest.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    
    It is a top down hierarchy, a pyramid.
    
    It’s not a pyramid, it’s a reverse funnel system.
    
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- ReallyActuallyFrankenstein@lemmynsfw.com ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  They’re still a corporate entity, and they still want access to markets to make money.
  
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  - toy_boat_toy_boat@lemmy.world ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    i think i’m conflating lemmy with bluesky. can’t anyone just host an instance? is it open-source? sorry, i should probably just look into this myself.
    
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- egerlach@lemmy.ca ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  For those who don’t know, Bluesky isn’t really federated. The only way to host a non-Bluesky instance required 1TB of storage in July 2024, and 5 TB of storage in Nov 2024. Could be way more than that now.
  
  You basically have to be a company to federate into the ATProto (Bluesky) ecosystem. You can’t just “stand up an instance”.
  
  Lots of detail: dustycloud.org/…/how-decentralized-is-bluesky/
  
  (I know you’ve already realized that you were conflating Mastodon with Bluesky, I’m putting this here for others who come along so they can get the facts).
  
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  - meldrik@lemmy.wtf ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Also DMs always go through Bluesky themselves.
    
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  - WolfLink@sh.itjust.works ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    That’s not an outlandish amount of storage. You can get more than that for $200.
    
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  - aeshna_cyanea@lemm.ee ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    That’s only if you want to maintain a full archive. You don’t actually have to store a full archive to run a relay
    
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- merc@sh.itjust.works ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  You’re right that Bluesky isn’t federated, but it most definitely is centralized.
  
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- heavyboots@lemmy.ml ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  The answer it’s, they’re neither thing right now. And the claim has been made that in order to run your own instance that forwarded all traffic generated by the primary instance, you would need equivalent hardware to what BlueSky currently has. Vs Mastdon, which is…
  
  not commercially owned
  
  has a proven federation capability
  
  Running a pretty large number of instances right now
  
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  - toy_boat_toy_boat@lemmy.world ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    interesting! so i’m probably conflating my expectations for bluesky with lemmy, when all the while i should actually be on mastadon. i was starting to wonder if bluesky was just a new us dem party project :\
    
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- Natanael@slrpnk.net ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  This affects the view of posts via the bluesky servers, but not via mirrors or other servers
  
  And the use of content addressing means you can be sure it hasn’t been modified
  
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- paraphrand@lemmy.world ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Wouldn’t your “home” server in an activity pub network always be subject to such requests?
  
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  - BakedCatboy@lemmy.ml ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    The difference is that if your home server is outside of Turkey then you can tell them to kick rocks. Bluesky probably complies because they don’t want to be blocked from Turkey. In a truly decentralized system like activitypub, only the server hosting the account / content in question risks being blocked, which means almost nothing the closer you get to a single account instance. Meanwhile every other server not in Turkey would not notice a difference.
    
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aeshna_cyanea@lemm.ee ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
bsky.app/profile/ssg.dev/post/3lmvrdmkdnc2d

Censorship requests from the Turkish government are only being applied in the official bluesky app. Third-party apps continue to show censored posts. Feels like that might be relevant

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Naevermix@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
What’s the point of Bluesky if they’re just going to bow before authoritarianism?

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- quack@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  There isn’t one as far as I’m concerned. People moved from one corpo social media platform to another corpo social media platform thinking that the person running the former platform was the problem, when the entire model is designed to prioritise profit over human expression.
  
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- null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
  Well it gives everyone the opportunity to blindly believe everything will be better because it’s not twitter.
  
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- drmoose@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Its a vc funded for profit. They have no choice.
  
  This has been a major red flag that everyone on bsky is just ignoring.
  
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- wewbull@feddit.uk ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  For a company like blue sky, you bow to all governments, or you bow to none. One way you become so milquetoast nobody wants to use you because nothing interesting is ever said. The other way you become 4chan.
  
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  - SaharaMaleikuhm@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
    Become 4chan as in being offline?
    
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Bloomcole@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Is anyone surprised?

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- null_dot@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
  Yeah there’s that one guy that appears in every thread about bluesky saying that it really is an open and decentralised protocol even if only one corporation uses it in a centralised way.
  
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MITM0@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
That didn’t take long

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- Bloomcole@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Clear from the beginning.
  
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secretlyaddictedtolinux@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I can’t believe it! Someone who chose to use a centralized platform instead of Nostr was banned?! It’s so shocking!

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- secret300@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Who could’ve ever predicted this?!?
  
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- rottingleaf@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Oh, so NOSTR is not hated here anymore. Good Anakin good.
  
  Seriously, an amazingly successful platform.
  
  People always want to try subtler and subtler tech, and NOSTR’s dumb architecture with relays is something that could only be conceived by people not that fond of tech brilliance. And that’s good and right! And if those people are cryptobros, then so be it, they found the right way and this is what matters.
  
  They had a task one can’t solve with classic P2P, because mobile devices and energy consumption and uptime. They solved it the old-fashioned way which is still right, kinda like Usenet, except reducing news servers to asynchronous relays.
  
  NOSTR already has some standard extensions for moderated communities, I’m just not sure if there are any clients supporting that.
  
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TON618@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
For some reason people expect things from Bluesky but people forget Bluesky is basicly just new Twitter. There’s really no reason to expect “better” from this new platform.

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eugenevdebs@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
The site/system made by the guy who enabled Trump and Neo-Nazis to be platformed is bowing down to authoritarians? I’m shocked, shocked to find out that the rich person obeys the other rich people!

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- Natanael@infosec.pub ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
  Jack Dorsey only provided funding to bluesky while the old plan to make Twitter run on an open protocol was still in place (ironically he wanted to avoid responsibility for moderation by doing that).
  
  He then left Bluesky completely, and never had any major influence after the initial funding.
  
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  - lmmarsano@lemmynsfw.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
    He also said bluesky’s shift toward a traditional corporate structure and the introduction of centralized moderation tools were major factors behind his leaving the company, and he vouched for alternatives like nostr.
    
    It seems a bit more challenging to pull shit like this on nostr.
    
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  - tauren@lemm.ee ⁨25⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
    Yeah, any business would have to either accept this request or leave the market. Jack Dorsey has no relation to that.
    
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PieMePlenty@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Because they are a company and a board of ethical leaders to ensure it doesn’t turn to shit is no guarantee it doesn’t turn to shit. BlueSky is something a corporate mindset person creates.

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shittydwarf@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Image

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- interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  How could they follow the pied piper rasputin a SECOND TIME??? There’s a saying in Texas, maybe it’s in Tennessee, fool me once shame, shame on you, fool me twice eh… Can’t get fooled again!
  
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dmalteseknight@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Well as a company bluesky, would need to abide by the laws of where it is offering it’s services.

They can’t just ignore the request of the country’s government. They could either challenge it in court or stop offering their services altogether.

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- Paranoidfactoid@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
  They’re based in the United States.
  
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  - dmalteseknight@programming.dev ⁨38⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
    Yes but they need to obey Turkish law if they want to offer their services there. Like how US websites have to show a “cookies” disclaimer within the EU due to EU privacy laws.
    
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Quintus@lemmy.ml ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
God damn it. People on the Turkey subreddit were running a campaign to move from X to Bluesky because X was honoring the requests of the Turkish Government to take down footage of police brutality and shit.

I and many others have told people to NOT go to Bluesky because it was “owned” by Jack Dorsey and could get bad as Twitter did.

Of course, absolutely nobody listened. Some celebrities also even moved to Bluesky (including the comedian and actor Cem Yılmaz, one of the most known amongst the people. Basically the Jim Carrey of Turkey.) And know THIS happens. Bravo.

I remember seeing some telling others to use OperaGX because a Turkish PARODY ACCOUNT of the official X account posted a meme that supports the protests. I said it’s stupid to support OperaGX because of who is behind it and one of them had the balls to say “Bruh like a browser changes anything your info is everywhere”

So mind boggling.

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- 73ms@sopuli.xyz ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I wouldn’t be surprised if he held some share of it but Dorsey probably doesn’t have much to do with Bluesky anymore, at least in an official capacity. The more salient point is about not really trusting any single party that asserts centralized control over a platform.
  
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- drspod@lemmy.ml ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  
  People on the Turkey subreddit were running a campaign to move from X to Bluesky
  
  I see so much astroturfing for Bluesky. They have good PR people who know what buttons to push, clearly.
  
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  - aeshna_cyanea@lemm.ee ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    I am functionally a pr person for atproto (bluesky) on here because people repeat so much disinfo, and I have someone is wrong on the internet syndrome 😭
    
    However, atproto and bluesky are distinct and I am pretty appalled at a fair amount of their recent decisions, esp this one
    
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  - finder585@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Ya, the marketing blitz here and on Reddit was nuts. Thankfully the PR-bullshit has calmed down some.
    
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- sp3ctr4l@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  My experience as a person who has a lot of experience working with computer is basically thus:
  
  When you solve a problem for someone, you are a magician.
  
  When you can’t, you are completely full of shit and know nothing about tech and your entire life is a lie.
  
  When you tell someone ‘hey I wouldn’t do that’, your experience and expertise means nothing if what you are suggesting would mildly inconvenience them for 10 minutes, or takes more than 30 seconds to explain why it is a bad idea.
  
  When you tell them ‘hey have you tried this?’ your experience and expertise also means nothing if you cannot do it for them and also make it so it never breaks again, and also they will keep doing the thing that makes it break even though you explained to them how to not do that thing that makes it break.
  
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- IsaamoonKHGDT_6143@lemmy.zip ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Governments are more powerful than companies, if there is resistance it is because the government does not have all the power and if there is no resistance it is because the government has all the power
  
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PunkRockSportsFan@fanaticus.social ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
What was the post

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- Trail@lemmy.world ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Probably said something bad about their current dictator.
  
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  - themurphy@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Probably, but it could also have been incredibly racist and whats worse.
    
    This guy really needs to show what he posted. Why hide that.
    
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  - PanArab@lemm.ee ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    He isn’t a dictator, he actually survived a military coup, and unlike his nationalist opponents he has welcomed refugees.
    
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  - cy_narrator@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Or maby he was selling some grass
    
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Etterra@discuss.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Ahem. Fuck Thanksgiving bird country. That’s all.

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harrys_balzac@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I’ve been on the fence about joining Bluesky but I think I am not going to bother.

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shortwavesurfer@lemmy.zip ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
But it’s a decentralized service! /s

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taladar@sh.itjust.works ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
The relevant question here is if you are in Turkey because if you aren’t this is a much bigger deal than if you are.

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- thesohoriots@lemmy.world ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Even if it’s a Turkey-specific restriction for users based in the country, it nonetheless shows that Bluesky is willing to comply with government requests.
  
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  - xak47d@lemm.ee ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Do they have the choice?
    
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j4yt33@feddit.org ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
And so it begins

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obsidianfoxxy7870@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I don’t get why they listened to the Turkish government. There not (to my understanding) registered there or have any kind of assests there.

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carrion0409@lemm.ee ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
How much you wanna bet the trump regime will force them to start removing people too ?

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Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

As a result, we are required to review the request in accordance with local regulations and Bluesky’s policies.

Why the fuck is BlueSky, an American company, required to comply with Turkish demands…?

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OmegaLemmy@discuss.online ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
How shocking, Mastodon remains the best option

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