Submitted 1 year ago by Agent_Karyo@lemmy.world to games@lemmy.world
There used to be stories (not sure how true) of him going to events like E3, Tokyo Game Show, Gamescom, and other developer-centric game conventions.
He also was a key figure / contributor in some old school PC adventure games like Indiana Jones from waaaaay back in the day.
I used to be kbm exclusive but there have been some pretty good controller improvements made over the years, things like hotkey layers in Skyrim UI mods or the final fantasy MMO giving dozens of unique hotkeys on a controller, and new hardware with back buttons and shoulder buttons that keep both thumbs on the thumbsticks. Can’t beat mouse for precision, but there are tradeoffs for that.
Steam Controller and Steam Deck converted me to controller. Trackpads and touch activated gyroscope are complete game changers. I still can’t play first person games with a thumbstick though.
Mouse for aim, wii nunchuck for movement.
I like playing shooter’s with m&k, str games too. I know for example in Apex, lot’s of pro players une a controller.
But 3rd person games feel somehow much better with a controller. I’m not sure how uncharted, or HZD would play on Mouse and Keyboard.
This is one of like 5 celebrities I would vote for if running for president.
If your analog control requires your entire hand, it’s interesting.
If your analog control requires several pointing fingers, it’s interesting.
If your analog control requires your thumbs, it’s shit.
Now get the duck out of my office!
Steven Spielberg was the producer on Boom Blox for the Wii.
It’s a good input system even better if your mouse has side buttons, the problem is lazy, often japanese devs, ports, I remember Nioh 1.0 having no mouse support at all, you had to use keyboard buttons to rotate the camera, it arrived later with a few updates.
I had bought Dark Souls 3 on PS4 but I suck at controllers and couldn’t play it. So I rebought it on PC, I was just the same but worse on a keyboard.
Steven Spielberg being based as fuck, as per usual
Unpopular opinion, this is the only work of Spielberg’s that I like. I can’t stand his movies.
Jurassic park? Lame.
Jaws? Unmoving.
Saving Private Ryan? Save me from this bore.
Schindler’s List? Yak yak yak about the Holocaust.
But I will not take slander from the epic masterpiece that is the Animaniacs.
I retract my previous opinion. I forgot about the animaniacs. And freakazoid. But his movies? No thank you.
I find it very difficult to believe that you don’t like a single Spielberg movie, just on a quantity level. He’s made so many at this point, at least one must tickle your fancy.
Can we all please admit that we merely tolerate keyboard as a gaming input device because of the precision that mouse provides? (Except maybe some special cases, like RTS) It’s a glorified typewriter, and we (PC gamers) use it only because at some point, it was all that we had and we just got used to it. There must be something better than a panel of buttons.
The irony is, the top world record runs on Trackmania (a not-a-hot-wheels track time trial driving game) tracks are done by keyboard drivers. Driving a high performance car on a crazy, loop-de-loopy jumps and bumps and speed boosters tracks is quickest with … WASD controls.
It’s not really that ironic. Something more ergonomic with the same tactile short travel buttons would’ve worked even better, you can just also do it with a keyboard, albeit not as comfortably.
There are some exceptions but I generally agree. The keyboard isn’t anywhere as precise as an analogue stick. Ideally I would use something like HOTAS for movement and mouse for aiming.
Game pads that use keyboard keys with custom switches and unique form factors are where I think we’re heading. Like the razer tartarus v2, which I have. It is great for gaming, better than a standard keyboard that uses identical switches, but still not ideal. It is similar enough to the layout of a keyboard that finger positioning can be the same and the learning curve is smooth.
It’s closer to your “ideal” but not there yet. And I completely agree that we need to go in that direction.
So true. I distinctly remember instances while playing GTAV with controller in the left hand and mouse in the right. lol
Would love to find a dedicated peripheral that i liked to be used similarly.
I’m not sure I agree with “tolerating” keyboard. I quite like it over a joystick! The benefit in complex games (like RTS, as you mention) is obvious, but even in most 3D games I prefer the instant reaction and definite axis of WASD over the fine-tunable precision of a joystick. There are not many times I would rather move at 2° forwards-right at a ramping 95% speed instead of simply moving forwards at 100% instantly. As for racing or other games that require precise analog inputs, I would generally prefer something that is bigger than my thumb i.e a racing wheel.
That isn’t to say I completely disagree, though! The ergonomics are a clear disadvantage. Most keyboards are not ergonomic for typing, let alone gaming. It would be fantastic to see more gaming-specialised keypad devices other than that one Razor one and whatever Chinese Amazon specials are kicking around. But the keypad format is not something I would want to forego as any FPS I play for more than 20 hours I usually have the entire left half of the keyboard bound to something for quick access.
I upvoted you because this is a great discussion point. :)
You could configure a thumbstick to operate how you want whereas with a board you can never have fully porpotional control.
On top of that, most controllers have directional pads.
Yeah, I’m not strictly comparing KBM vs. gamepad. As you mentioned, keyboards are just not ergonomic, and that’s what I was basically saying. So you understood my point precisely, I, too, want to see more options.
Not sure on that one.
I’m one of the very few people who loves the Steam Controller. If given an option between KBM and Steam Controller, I generally do the latter. The right pad as mouse isn’t as accurate as a mouse, but damned if it isn’t way more comfy from the couch.
I guess what I’m saying is: I’d suggest it is less about KBM and more about what games you play, where you play them, and probably whether or not you play multiplayer.
As a longtime PC gamer, Games like Dark Souls was impossible for me to play with a keyboard. But I kept watching my friends play it and really liked it a lot. Got one of those discount Xbox controller knockoffs and got pretty good with the game using a controller.
When the Steamdeck came around, I felt right at home with a controller.
It’s shifted dramatically where 90% of games, I’m playing controller. But still can’t play FPSes with one. (Even though I got pretty good with Halo back in the day)
As I get older I’ve grown to just appreciate comfort over precision. I don’t play competitive multiplayer, in fact the only multiplayer I play is COD zombies with some buddies once a week. And we all suck anyways so we’re just having a laugh. I’d much rather just lean back in my chair with a controller.
True, depending on the game of course.
I’ve been thinking of a mouse / controller hybrid solution being the ultimate gaming peripheral. Joystick to walk and drive, mouse to aim. Should easily hold its own in PC shooters and console racers.
I used to play with a guy who was awesome with a mouse in his right hand and a controller in his left. Pretty cool setup. I tried it out and it wasn’t for me
My wife does this because shes purely a M+K player and one game, she was sucking st. So she plugged in one of my controllers and moved with the controller, but looked with the mouse.
Azeron cyborg is really nice but takes a bit to setup you keybinds for each game since even between fps games they can’t decide what key opens a door
Yes! That’s the kind of stuff I hope goes mainstream and supported more. Something purpose-built not for typing, but for gaming.
Nah, mouse and keyboard is great for a lot of things. Strategy games, most MMORPGs. Heck even fighting games are actually really nice on a keyboard if you can get used to it, you can do very complicated movements by just pressing a few buttons, the actual analog input is actually completely unutilized in most fighting games anyway.
Having such a precise control over the buttons you press as well as having such a large amount of them is really important to a lot of games. And honestly even if we made a unique controller to replicate this precise input, we would still end up using a keyboard anyway because you can actually type messages on it, too.
Fighting games with a keyboard? Scary stuff.
I specifically mentioned those special cases. It’s obviously nearly impossible to play RTS and MMORPGs with a controller effectively. And of course another reason we use keyboards is that some games are just text input/typing-heavy, it would be mighty inconvenient switching to and from another input method very often.
But I also think that it’s easy to argue the point that the device designed with the sole purpose of entering text is not optimal for navigating characters in 2D/3D space. Something better just hasn’t come along yet or it hasn’t been popularized enough. An improved mouse design could also offload a lot of inputs from the kb hand, like those MMORPG mice with macro buttons. There’s definitely room for improvement.
Skill issue
I aspire to git gud one day.
Huh? Keyboard is completely fine. I wouldn’t have it any other way?
Although his opinion is unpopular and you may have not of heard of it, that fact has precisely zero to do with its truthfulness.
“If I had asked people what they wanted, they would have said faster horses” - Henry Ford
Notice, that I didn’t say it’s impossible to use KB for gaming, I just said (or implied) that it’s not optimal. It’s not good, it’s just what we have and what we are used to, and there’s a lot of room for improvement. And I say this as a PC gamer of 30+ years. So much so that when I lay my hand on a keyboard it automatically assumes the WASD position, even if I intend to type.
And I’m glad that I brought this perspective to your attention, because we often don’t question what we are used to since childhood. Hopefully, these discussions will eventually bring us something better, that we have not yet thought of.
no-gamepad games
i.e. dark souls
Who in their right mind plays souls games or any action RPG with mouse / keyboard?? You cannot even play demon souls with a mouse. A mouse is for aiming in shooters and the like.
speak for yourself. the Keyboard(s) tolerated me when i got hyperfocused during a gaming session not the other way around.
Gaming sticks (and weird ass abominations like trackball mice) were quite popular for some time during late 90s and early 00s, but now they’re mostly limited to certain games like flight/space games and usually part of a HOTAS setup.
What I miss on keyboard & mouse setups is any form of analogue input, usually best for driving in games and walking faster/slower etc. But nothing is stopping me from just plugging in any controller and it’ll usually work on PC just fine.
For everything else I simply prefer keyboard anyway, many more buttons and combinations that controllers often lack. Lots of controller supported games these days need ways around having too many buttons by adding modifiers or having to use select-wheels and what not.
Hell I’d even go as far as adding a Stream Deck to my setup (I don’t even stream), just to have another panel of (configurable) buttons to use for various games and stuff.
On PC, I game exclusively with trackballs and have since the nineties. I’ve never not been given the side eye when someone found out that’s how I play.
When was this magical time during which they were popular?
Yup I’m with you here. I love KBM and it’s my preferred way to play for most games, but when it comes to driving I’d much prefer a controller with analogue triggers and a stick (unless it’s a sim racer, in which case a wheel of course) for that extra precision.
Unfortunately I can’t think of a good design to give that level of control to just one hand. Analogue keys are a thing but they sound awful, nowhere near enough precision due to the short travel of them.
You can technically get analog keyboard switches for your WASD movement and such, but afaik it’d be quite expensive and require a fairly customized keyboard to pull off. But it can be done!
Also I love having extra mouse buttons for all my modifiers. I use mine in WoW to access all my hotbars without moving my hand to press any modifier keys on the keyboard, really nice setup.
Depends on the type of game.
As I said, except special occasions. But ultimately, it’s still not perfect for anything but typing-heavy games. I can probably imagine a better propriety input method for RTS that would forgo finger gymnastics.
A man of culture.
Insists on KBM
A man of culture.
Kolanaki@yiffit.net 1 year ago
How come Steven Spielberg hasn’t done a video game movie? I envision a heartwarming tale of a young boy befriending a Strogg from Quake by giving it Reece’s Pieces.
vulgarcynic@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
is this sarcasm? lol he did Ready Player One. the ultimate video game movie!
BruceTwarzen@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Also one of the worst
Kolanaki@yiffit.net 1 year ago
I mean… It’s about video games, kinda. But I wouldn’t call it a video game movie considering it’s based on a book not a video game lol
BeMoreCareful@lemmy.world 1 year ago
It was a terrible movie, and the book wasn’t much better.