Wait a minute, we've been going about this all the wrong way!

Comments

• npz@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Well they’re still blowing up kids with these things so idk if it’s the most brilliant targeting technique

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  • Vent@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Compared to dumping white phosphorus over hospitals and refugee camps, killing 2 (?) children during an attack that targeted hundreds/thousands is many orders of magnitude more precise. I hate dead innocents as much as anyone, but you gotta admit the pagers were effective and included way less collateral damage than the methods Isreal has employed in recent history.

    The point of the post isn’t to praise the pagers attack. It’s to point out that Isreal is capable of causing less collateral damage in Gaza but chooses not to.

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    • Hlodwig@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      You do realise targets in Gaza and targets in Lebanon are not the same? On one hand you have fighters shielding themselves behind civilians and dont even know what a pager is and why they would use it, on the other hand you have political and operative leaders on these fighters that need these pagers to stay low profile and untaped…

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    • TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      but you gotta admit the pagers were effective and included way less collateral damage than the methods Isreal has employed in recent history.

      Do you admit that gas chambers were an inhumane way to kill people ? Because gas chambers are effective.

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    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Fucking weird comment.

      but you gotta admit the pagers were effective and included way less collateral damage than the methods Isreal has employed in recent history.

      Yeah. No I don’t.

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    • daltotron@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      you do not, under any circumstances, “gotta hand it to them”

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    • Schadrach@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      It’s to point out that Isreal is capable of causing less collateral damage in Gaza but chooses not to.

      That comes down to how often Hamas orders things that can reasonably have small bombs put inside them on a large scale and that Hamas are expected to have on their person’s most of the time, how secure their supply lines are, how paranoid they are about looking for that kind of thing, that sort of thing. It involves a lot more moving parts and rare opportunities than just dropping some bombs.

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  • Microw@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    It’s an Obama type technique. Sure, you might blow up a few innocents, but the rate of eliminated enemies vs killed innocents is better than in traditional warfare, so a numbers guy would always go for that one.

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    • Keeponstalin@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Leaked official documents show that that wasn’t really the case as the public was led to believe

      Quotes

      > The White House and Pentagon boast that the targeted killing program is precise and that civilian deaths are minimal. However, documents detailing a special operations campaign in northeastern Afghanistan, Operation Haymaker, show that between January 2012 and February 2013, U.S. special operations airstrikes killed more than 200 people. Of those, only 35 were the intended targets. During one five-month period of the operation, according to the documents, nearly 90 percent of the people killed in airstrikes were not the intended targets. In Yemen and Somalia, where the U.S. has far more limited intelligence capabilities to confirm the people killed are the intended targets, the equivalent ratios may well be much worse. > The documents show that the military designated people it killed in targeted strikes as EKIA — “enemy killed in action” — even if they were not the intended targets of the strike. Unless evidence posthumously emerged to prove the males killed were not terrorists or “unlawful enemy combatants,” EKIA remained their designation, according to the source. That process, he said, “is insane. But we’ve made ourselves comfortable with that. The intelligence community, JSOC, the CIA, and everybody that helps support and prop up these programs, they’re comfortable with that idea.” > The source described official U.S. government statements minimizing the number of civilian casualties inflicted by drone strikes as “exaggerating at best, if not outright lies.”

      • theintercept.com/…/the-assassination-complex/

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  • sudo@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Its accepting Israeli propaganda to say that this was a precision strike. This is like using cluster munitions.

    Whenever Israel comes up with an idea for an assassination they do it because they can. Its a force of habit for them.

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  • Nyanix@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    When your goal is genocide, a kill is a kill

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• SSJMarx@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  kill individual fighters

  They killed like 1 fighter in exchange for wounding a thousand civilians, including at least one little girl who died. The pager shit is every bit as indiscriminate as the bombing.

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  • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    i think they killed like, 12 people, and injured somewhere between 1-2 thousand more, probably some civilians in there, but these are military pagers to my knowledge so it’d be weird for it to hurt a bunch of random people, but it’s possible.

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    • sudo@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Hezbollah was using commercial grade pagers because they’re a militia. The purpose of pagers are to contact them when their off duty. Many of these pagers blew up in homes, grocery stores, and other public places. Many civilians were killed and most people injured were bystanders.

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    • MouseKeyboard@ttrpg.network ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      This says 37 dead, of whom Hezbollah have stated 31 were their fighters.

      abcnews.go.com/International/…/story?id=113833089

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    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      these are military pagers

      They were a shipment for general consumption that went to a dealer near the Iranian embassy.

      The target was the Iranian ambassador to Lebanon, and virtually everyone else was just collateral damage.

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    • interdimensionalmeme@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Right now the plan is to start assassinating everyone that got maimed for being related to zbowla

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    • teamevil@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Last I saw was 37 dead to over 3000 injuries

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  • WhyFlip@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    No, it’s not. This was a very tactical way of striking an enemy that hides behind women and children.

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    • Elwynn@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      So would Netanyahu also be considered as hiding behind women and children? He’s out in public, traveling and lives in Tel Aviv.

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    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      This was a very tactical

      Flinging a hand grenade into a crowd several thousand times over

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  • lemmycdatass@lemmynsfw.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    1000 civilians had pagers sold to Hezbollah? Odd.

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    • surewhynotlem@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Can you confidently say you know the exact chain of custody of your cell phone?

      Some killer gets a pager he doesn’t need, sells it to someone to make some cash, who gives it to their kid. Annnnd boom.

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    • SSJMarx@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Hezbollah isn’t just a military organization. It’s a political party. The majority of those pagers were in civilian hands when they detonated.

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• slaacaa@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Image

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  • Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Image

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    • slaacaa@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Image

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• VeganCheesecake@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  It took them years to prepare that operation. It was against Hezbollah, not Hamas, because they saw them as the bigger threat.

  The war in Gazah is barbaric, but the sensible immediate alternative would have been a very targeted operation to find and rescue the hostages, not something like this.

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  • Madison420@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    The idf keep killing their hostages in what seem like very purposeful attempts to do so.

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  • jmcs@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    And it required Hezbollah to have no concept of logistic security. Maybe Hamas is as amateurish as Hezbollah in that regard.

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    • sudo@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Historically Hamas has been the amateurs and Hezbollah the pros. Hezbollah has actual victories against the IDF. Hamas’ military success last October was completely unprecedented. Its generally believed that Hezbollah trained Hamas into the fighting force it is now. And since Iran trained Hezbollah you get people claiming Hamas is an Iranian puppet.

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• Annoyed_Crabby@monyet.cc ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  There is no accident.

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• Etterra@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Who’s confused? They wanted to do a genocide so now they’re doing a genocide.

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  • Snowclone@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    It’s more like, they keep doing the genocide.

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• EleventhHour@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  “Making 40,000 pagers full of C4 in 2024 is not profitable! What are we, Apple?”

  — Mossad

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  • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    30 points - 1 day ago.

    What happened to this site?

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• capital@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Is lemmy having trouble telling the difference between Hamas and Hezbollah now?

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  • jol@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    No? This is implying that Israel has had the technology to precisely target people for months but chooses to destroy a whole region instead went it came to Palestine.

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    • capital@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Your comment implies they had a method like this one to attack Hamas. Source?

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    • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      to be clear, you can’t directly target an individual, you can maybe potentially target a single individual.

      This is also not to mention the cost and accessibility of doing something like this at scale. It’s theorized they either got into the factories, or somehow got through the shipment and intercepted it to do this operation.

      It’s possible they acted as a middleman but that would be really really hard to do at scale like this.

      And even if they did this in palestine, it would only work once.

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  • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    no i think they’re talking about it cuz its israel

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    • capital@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      I forgot every method works the same against every target.

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• overt_mess@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  But how would they arbitrarily punish everyone without carpet bombing? It’s not like everyone has a pager.

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  • SynopsisTantilize@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    If you pull the thread enough there won’t be any sweatshirt left. Chill bro.

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    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Watch me unravel, I’ll soon be naked

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• kingshrubb@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Terrorism is bad and we should condemn it. Unless it’s done by the United States in which case we should call it “anti -communism or defending democracy”. Or if it’s done by Israel we can call it “self-defense”.

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  • SlopppyEngineer@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Whatever Israel is doing can just be added to the United States. In the end, Israel is just the guard dog “defending democracy” in the Middle East. A somewhat rabid guard dog, but still owned and fed by the US.

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• Doorbook@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  “we have infiltrate the supply chain of communication devices order by Hizbollah what should we do”

  • “put GPS tracker so we know where they are”
  • “we can listen to all their plans and communication”
  • “put a bomb inside …”

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  • MiDaBa@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    I am fully against this booby trapping war crime regime but the problem with your first options is that pagers don’t transmit like phones do. That means there would be no way to remotely aquire the GPS or other saved data undetected.

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    • the_crotch@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      If you can plant an explosive in there you can plant a transmitter

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  • KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    to be fair, a gps tracker probably wouldn’t be very useful. You wouldn’t even know which pager is held by who. It would just tell you where people “probably are generally” which you probably already know.

    you could intercept communications, but they’re probably already doing that. doing it at a pager level would be weird, you should be doing it from a transmission level. But i don’t know how pagers work so don’t quote me on that.

    you could put a bomb inside of it. That’s an option…

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    • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Message is unencrypted when it hits the beeper?

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• Zementid@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Hamas != Hisbollah

  But I start to wonder if they Knees about the planed attacks and let them happen to start this massacre.

  It feels like the all seeing eye of Mossad was ignored on purpose. I hope Netanjahus Name will be branded for ever. He deserves no good mention in History of humanity.

  On the other side… humanity faces the biggest historic event ever and no one cares (climate change)

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  • octopus_ink@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Hamas != Hisbollah

    And they also don’t use pagers, or cell phones, or…?

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    • Zementid@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      I think you imply the wrong thing here. of course they probably do, but what is the core of your statement?

      Mine was:

      Netanjahu (Not all of Israel and definitely not all Jews) wants this genocide. He needs it for his own survival, to a point where he gladly accepted the rape-murder of Festival crowd… not any festival, a Hippie-Goa-Festival full of people who would never vote conservative, so a scapegoat the conservatives gladly gave.

      Conservatives globally are such a vomit inducing Subgenre of human scum. Hamas and Hisbollah ARE conservatives too… the liberal-green-peace-people have no representation in this world filled with hatred. Quite the opposite, they are vilified and killed.

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• ChefKalash@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  I mean, not every individual has a pager on them necessarily. Not that it’s excused either way

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  • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Way to completely miss the point. Nobody is suggesting they use pagers in Gaza.

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• Mordred_85@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Just wait the carpet bombing will arrive sooner or later.

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• RangerJosie@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Whoa. Hey guys. New war crime just dropped.

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• crashfrog@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Hamas doesn’t use pagers, they use tunnels

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  • sudo@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Wtf is that mean. Tunnels aren’t communication devices. Also Hezbollah famously has vast tunnel networks under southern Lebanon.

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    • crashfrog@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Wtf is that mean.

      It means you have to actually go to the tunnels and fight, like the IDF is doing.

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  • mindlesscrollyparrot@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Hamas uses phones, hence the “Where’s Daddy?” attack, which is not directed at tunnels. It’s more-or-less designed to hit civilians. The clue is in the name.

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    • crashfrog@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      It’s targeting the militant based on his phone.

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• emerald@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  I’d argue the pager explosions were just a different form factor of carpet bombing

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• YeetPics@mander.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Crazy, it’s almost like plans improved with time. That’s never been the case ever in history.

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  • Track_Shovel@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    If your plan is ‘fuck dem civis’ you need another plan

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  • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    This plan has been in motion for over 1.5 years given that is when the shell company was set up. So by your logic, their “plans” should be much improved by now, no?

    Almost as if your comment makes no sense in this context.

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• yournamehere@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  quick question: anyone doubt carpet bombing germany in ww2 was wrong? doubt it.

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  • TheReturnOfPEB@reddthat.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    the residents of dresden

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    • yournamehere@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      if the bots here could read…

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bombing_of_Dresden

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  • T00l_shed@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Yes, it was wrong.

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    • yournamehere@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      no.

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  • BigPotato@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Didn’t have precision munitions back then. Didn’t have drones that can monitor the battlefield from across the globe and provide real-time video feeds.

    Besides, in this case, Israel is playing Germany’s role.

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    • yournamehere@lemm.ee ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      so wrong on so many levels. but maybe we should ask the lgbtq spokesperson of hamas. ah, shit…there aint one because…

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  • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    This is more like carpet bombing England during WW2

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• cheddar@programming.dev ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  To be fair, Mossad != IDF.

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• Potatofish@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  But muh false equivalency.

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• AI_toothbrush@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

  Yeah they cant just carpet bomb lebanon that would be too far for even the US.

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  • sweetpotato@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

    Yeah I’m sure, the US would never let that slide, just like in Laos, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan.

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    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨1⁩ ⁨month⁩ ago

      Nothing in the world or in the US has changed since 1972.

      GOOD point.

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