It’s extremely frustrating to hold the apparently controversial opinion that killing civilians is, consistently, a bad thing.
Headlines
Submitted 4 months ago by Linkerbaan@lemmy.world to aboringdystopia@lemmy.world
https://lemmy.world/pictrs/image/9fb4710d-a0cc-4955-8824-c6db42f5ebc3.jpeg
Comments
Lianodel@ttrpg.network 4 months ago
MTK@lemmy.world 4 months ago
You’re only worth moral consideration if those in power want you to be.
Wars, racism, homophobia, etc. These are just the results of those who have the power to ignore those they deem not worthy, doing whatever they want.
It ranges from current wars, to past wars, to the Holocaust, to 9/11, to eating animals, to Epstein, etc.
Maybe one day we will realize that someones worth should not be assigned by others.
We are all equal or we are all dead.
PenisWenisGenius@lemmynsfw.com 4 months ago
The controversy is this. Do we REALLY want to vote for Trump who is going to take away our freedoms, dismantle democracy and probably won’t do anything to stop the genocide in Gaza anyway? Or are we going to vote for the candidate that definitely won’t stop the genocide in Gaza but will at least ensure we maintain a democracy? Its not a good choice either way but I’m voting for whichever candidate isn’t Trump no matter what. I have my own life to look out for.
RedditRefugee69@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Let’s not forget that trump supported the move of Israel’s capital to goddamn Jerusalem
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
So Hamas killing civilians is a bad thing too? Gonna start calling out people showing support for Hamas at protests?
Lianodel@ttrpg.network 4 months ago
So Hamas killing civilians is a bad thing too?
Yes, obviously. Why do you ask? Since you asked, I may as well ask, is Israel killing civilians a bad thing?
Gonna start calling out people showing support for Hamas at protests?
Sure, if you see them, kick them to the curb. Do you agree that there’s a difference between supporting Palestine and supporting Hamas?
ssj2marx@lemmy.ml 4 months ago
Operation Al-Aqsa Flood came after fifteen years of Gaza being besieged by the IDF. Yes civilians died in it and that’s tragic, but Hamas did not create the conditions under which the operation occurred, Israel did. Hamas does not have the power and the international backing to end this conflict, Israel does. Hamas has not spent seven and a half decades ethnically cleansing Israelis - Israel has spent that time ethnically cleansing Palestinians.
Anything short of support for Hamas is support for genocide.
Kaboom@reddthat.com 4 months ago
Al Shifa was home to Hamas torture chambers for a decade at least. amnesty.org/…/gaza-palestinians-tortured-summaril…
Its not just a hospital.
mildlyusedbrain@lemmy.world 4 months ago
So this piece doesn’t source any evidence that it was used and ignores the literal fact that later investigations by Amnesty didn’t find credible evidence of use as a military base and the massive Israeli misinformation campaign on that front: …wikipedia.org/…/Alleged_military_use_of_al-Shifa….
But yeah let’s justify Israel bombing away access to medical care to people forced into a small, war torn area because fuck Palestinians I guess.
Schmoo@slrpnk.net 4 months ago
This is highly contested and no credible evidence has been produced for these claims. Israeli propagandists have been hard at work conjuring up lies wholesale and it’s shameful to repeat them without verification.
givesomefucks@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Al Shifa was home to Hamas torture chambers for a decade at least.
Your link gave one example a decade ago.
Kaboom@reddthat.com 4 months ago
What makes you think they stopped? Hamas saying they did?
masquenox@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Hell, a while ago France24 wasn’t even using the terms “Israel” or “IDF” in any of it’s reporting on the sacking of Gaza - they were literally pretending the bullets, bombs and missiles was being fired and dropped by some unknown party.
capital@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I don’t think Ukraine is known for hiding military assets in things like hospitals.
You can keep trying to make them the same but they aren’t.
anas@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Neither is Hamas, nobody believes you anymore.
israel, on the other hand, did plant rifles behind MRI machines, and laptops with plugs that aren’t even used in Gaza.
barnaclebutt@lemmy.world 4 months ago
You may be correct, but the loss of civilian life in Gaza is truly horrific.
eldavi@lemmy.ml 4 months ago
they’re not correct; amnesty proved that nothing was hidden in that hospital and that both americans and isrealis were lying about it to their respective people.
reminds me of weapons on mass destruction in iraq.
DarkGamer@fedia.io 4 months ago
It's almost like the circumstances are entirely different.
bdonvr@thelemmy.club 4 months ago
Sure are
ShinkanTrain@lemmy.ml 4 months ago
Yeah they’re different. Israel killed many times more civilians in a fraction of the time.
OsrsNeedsF2P@lemmy.ml 4 months ago
The numbers are iffy, but yes, it’s about 4x as many civilians killed in Gaza as Ukraine:
snooggums@midwest.social 4 months ago
The difference being the IDF lying about why they destroyed a hospital and Russia lying about whether they were the ones who destroyed a hospital?
DarkGamer@fedia.io 4 months ago
Al Shifa was used by Hamas, which made it a legal target. Ukrainian forces did not use Kyiv Children's Hospital for military purposes.
Freefall@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Just off reading headlines…is “entering” and “bombing” the same thing now?
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Off headlines not.
Off reality Al Shifa is far more destroyed than the Ukrainian hospital.
doubtingtammy@lemmy.ml 4 months ago
What Israel did was far worse. They bombed the hospitals, laid siege, raided the hospitals, killed doctors, abducted doctors, tortured patients and staff, and dug mass graves.
bigFab@lemmy.world 4 months ago
when the victims are lighter skinned
Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
This is what it is and it’s ironic cause Palestinians aren’t even that dark.
bigFab@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Sudan civil war what? too dark 4 me
volodya_ilich@lemm.ee 4 months ago
When the victims aren’t strategic to US interests*
sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz 4 months ago
While that may be partially true, The Guardian ironically has a good opinion piece of the exact quotes being said by news reporter about “European” children getting bombed from 2022. Sometimes it IS related to the colour of their eyes and skin, and dismissive comments like yours come across pretty ignorant.
Draedron@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 months ago
I am tired of these comparisions. The Ukraine war has a clear good and a clear bad side. The same cannot be said about the Israel/Palastine war. Both parties are equally shitty. There is just one side much more powerful so more capable to commit cruelties. The only clear good people here are the civillians suffering on both sides.
UnrepententProcrastinator@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
Seems like both articles should be horrified about a bombed hospital but maybe that’s just me.
KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 months ago
i would argue both articles should probably just be talking about how hospitals were bombed, rather than writing an entire diatribe on the emotional states of everyone involved.
But that’s just me, i like my reporting neutral.
lud@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Sure but one article is a breaking news type of article and one is about a bad thing that has already happened and now they are merely entering the hospital.
I dont know the specific of either event but is it possible that more people died in the Ukrainian hospital?
Linkerbaan@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Palestine is far more black and white than Ukraine. Unless committing Genocide in a concentration camp seems fine to you.
cows_are_underrated@feddit.org 4 months ago
Okay, so Russia Invaded Ukraine. Russia is the Aggressor.
The Hamas attacked Israel, so Israel exterminates Palestine and claims it wants to exterminate the Hamas. The Hamas have committed Warcrimes and hides the self behind Civilians and the IDF does a whole lot of warcrimes too. Both sides are shirt, just the IDF has done a bit more shit than the Hamas. Theres no good side in this conflict. Both sides want to exterminate each other and sacrifice the Palestinian civilians for this.
I don’t know where you see a more black and white scheme in the middle east conflict than in the Ukraine war, but I’m willing to read your explanation.
jmsy@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Nothing about middle east conflicts is close to black and white. I’d recommend you read up on it.
KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 months ago
far more black and white? What in the ever living fuck are you talking about?
Ukraine was literally legally guaranteed that russia wouldn’t invade them, after taking their nuclear weapons. Russia LITERALLY broke this agreement. How much more black and white can you get than quite literally going against what you’ve said?
skozzii@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
Care to explain it if it’s so simple? You have no idea what your talking about…
Ibaudia@lemmy.world 4 months ago
A hospital full of civilians being bombed is bad regardless of the context. There’s no point in media outlets spinning shit like this. They’re just acting as propagandists for Israel by throwing softballs like this.
istanbullu@lemmy.ml 4 months ago
It’s the opposite. Israel/Palestine war has a clear evil side (Israel) and a clear victim (Palestine). Ukraine war is a complicated mess.
Freefall@lemmy.world 4 months ago
That is a wild and backwards take!
S_204@lemm.ee 4 months ago
So the victims are the ones who openly call for the death of an entire group of people? Their founding Charter literally calls for the elimination of Jews… and after they slaughtered the women and children in October they said they’ll do it again. They’re the victim to you? Interesting.
MintyFresh@lemmy.world 4 months ago
I know you’re getting down voted to hell but I agree. People are losing sight of just how shitty Hamas is. This is exactly what they wanted, they care even less about their own peoples lives, happy to use them as human shields. A hundred thousand martyrs. Fucking embarrassing to be human sometimes.
AgentDalePoopster@lemmy.world 4 months ago
No one is losing sight of that, they’re correctly making the point that there is no justification for bombing a hospital full of patients and that the justification the IDF gave has been found to be false.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 4 months ago
The Ukraine war has a clear good and a clear bad side. The same cannot be said about the Israel/Palastine war.
It’s funny, because I’ve seen so many white nationalists assert the exact opposite.
lostinfog@reddthat.com 4 months ago
white nationalists assert
umbrella@lemmy.ml 4 months ago
i wonder which side this respectable publication is on
ToucheGoodSir@lemy.lol 4 months ago
Considering that Netanyahu was having corruption charges levied against him before October 7th… well, from the Israelis I’ve talked to, the intelligence was there to prevent the attack, and the brass let it happen. War time leaders tend to hold on to power a lot easier. In addition to the gas deposits off the Gazan coast, and the whole beach front property development thing that Israeli corporations are advertising.
volodya_ilich@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Netanyahu is just the latest in a long list of demons, the invasion of Palestine didn’t start on October 7th.
Snowflake@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
History books have nothing to do with middle east. They’re mostly brainwashed with a different version of history growing up. What happens in the middle east is about portraying power and exerting control and influence in the middle east. To keep the status quo. None of them want an actual war they’re all weak anyway that’s why they abandon the Hamas terrorists.
goldenex@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Terrible is understanding what have been done this will go as the crime of sententry
ToucheGoodSir@lemy.lol 4 months ago
I mean, it is the classic cycle of human hate right. I talked to a (gorgeous, I will add, sue me, I like pretty girls) Israeli girl for a few months after Oct 7th. Hearing her perspective of things was educating. If I was on a date and had someone at the table next to me get stabbed in the neck by a random passerby, I would be a bit jaded as well. Having regular alarms to hide from missile attacks etc. Obviously, genocide bad. The Palestinians have it far worse, and are being used as proxies by Iran because of the whole mini-cold war that has been going on in the middle east for a while. However, life is rarely black and white. Unless it’s like serial killer/rapist/torturer shit. Deprogramming generational hatred on an individual basis takes a great degree of patience and understanding of nuance.
Aux@lemmynsfw.com 4 months ago
Israel = Russia
andrew_bidlaw@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
I could’ve said it’s more complex than that, but both conflicts couldn’t have happened if invaders just didn’t unvade.
LavenderDay3544@lemmings.world 4 months ago
The Arabs have started every single conflict with the Israelis. It is nothing like Russia and Ukraine.
S_204@lemm.ee 4 months ago
Last I heard, Ukrainians weren’t holding up in those hospitals and using them as launch sites for their bombs…
Once you turn a hospital into a launch site, it’s no longer afforded the same protection. Might be wise to avoid doing that in the grand scheme of things.
Ibaudia@lemmy.world 4 months ago
An overwhelming majority of news outlets, as well as humanitarian orgs like Amnesty International, and even the WHO, have come out and said they have seen no evidence that al-Shifa hospital was used for any military operations by Hamas. Even the IDF itself has barely tried to justify it. Israel bombed this hospital, killed civilians including newborns children, and so far have provided no reason to believe that it was even strategically beneficial for anything other than the continued mass deaths of innocent Palestinians.
UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Last I heard, Ukrainians weren’t holding up in those hospitals and using them as launch sites for their bombs…
RT says they were and the only people who might dispute it are terrorists (also according to Russia).
Besides, who am I supposed to believe? An IDF endorsed stenographer or my Hamas-affiliated eyes?
S_204@lemm.ee 4 months ago
When you’re unwilling to believe your own eyes with the videos and pictures that have been shared that are clearly GPS and time stamped showing what was found and where then there’s nothing that’s going to convince you of reality over your embedded ignorance.
glitches_brew@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Last I heard
Yeah you’re gonna need to back that claim up. Russian propaganda doesn’t count.
S_204@lemm.ee 4 months ago
It’s wild that some people refuse to believe the pictures and videos of their own eyes. It’s undeniable but it weapons caches have been found in various hospitals including al-shifa. It’s undeniable that power feeding the underground tunnels was coming from a un facility.
You can deny reality all you want, but that doesn’t negate the facts.
TokenBoomer@lemmy.world 4 months ago
That red heifer ain’t gonna sacrifice itself.
KillingTimeItself@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 months ago
my favorite is that everybody is referring to the israel palestine thing as a genocide, but i have yet to see anybody piss and shit themselves over what russia is doing to ukraine.
Let alone what russia is doing to it’s own domestic population. Take a guess on how putin is still popular after putting hundreds of thousands of people to death in a needless war.
SpaceCowboy@lemmy.ca 4 months ago
Hamas was using the hospital as a military base, which is just another in their long list of war crimes.
Ukraine wasn’t doing this.
RandomGuy79@lemmy.world 4 months ago
One hospitals had terror networks in and under them and one just so happens to have children inside that Russia wants to blow up. Same thing really
bartolomeo@suppo.fi 4 months ago
I wonder how it would read if they quoted the Russian military in the headline on the right.
anticurrent@sh.itjust.works 4 months ago
Well, we have established that the West is racist and supremacist centuries ago, nothing has changed.
ID411@lemmy.dbzer0.com 4 months ago
Laughable
Gennadios@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Well, yeah, the IDF entered a cesspit pf hypocrites after obtaining fucking video footage that hostages were taken there. Russia bombed an urban center and hit a hospital.
The more appropriate comparison would be when a hummus misfire hit its own hospital building. Those were good times.
Tronn4@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Corporate wants me to find the differences in the actions… they’re both the same thing -the office
NigelFrobisher@aussie.zone 4 months ago
We’re all in the Zone Of Interest now.
yournamehere@lemm.ee 4 months ago
but did hamas ever condemn the russian invasion of ukraine? what was the motto on the last CSD in gaza?
Kaput@lemmy.world 4 months ago
Yup,. the hypocrisy is so thick you can taste it, and it’s bitter with a strong hint of propaganda. the world is lead by assholes, on all sides.
Hegar@fedia.io 4 months ago
This is an objectively true statement. Of course the world is lead by assholes.
We all know that power corrupts. Neuroscience has shown that getting power damages the brain's capacity for empathy.
You just can't lead a nation without becoming capable of great evil.
snooggums@midwest.social 4 months ago
Jimmy Carter seems like a decent person.