Yes but our current society vests power in the corporation doing the killing. It’s a problem as old as civilization, but one we still haven’t solved. The problem is that these institutions and the technology they wield has never been greater.
Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 6 months ago
If you ever hear anyone talking about how humans suck and we’re all terrible and will definitely destroy ourselves, just think about the fact that killing whistleblowers was quickly followed by more whistleblowers. Not just lone heros, but ten fucking people said, “hey, fuck you, are you really gonna kill me too?” knowing that the answer could well be “yes”.
Rookwood@lemmy.world 6 months ago
surewhynotlem@lemmy.world 6 months ago
We need an impartial lawnmower. Something external to the species that comes in and cuts the biggest ones in half. And it needs to be incorruptible and powerful enough to do this.
Damn, I think I just invented god again.
Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
I like to think that climate change is that lawnmower, we either learn to cooperate or die.
Saledovil@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
“This world needs no savior, just a headsman to cut her down”. “Erscheine!” (2008) By Eisregen, translated from German.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
The Germans did this…
Tja@programming.dev 6 months ago
I invite to read history. Roman generals, European kings…
FrostyCaveman@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Yep… Times will change and eventually the faceless bureaucracy world we have now will morph into something more like Roman imperial military dictatorship or European absolutist monarchies. I only hope we can organically build social mitigations to the centralising power of information technology before that happens. Because as bad as it is now it would be much worse then
bolexforsoup@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 months ago
The tinfoil hat quantity on lemmy is almost as bad as /r/conspiracy. Yall need to stop parroting this nonsense without evidence of foul play.
parpol@programming.dev 6 months ago
[deleted]OpenStars@discuss.online 6 months ago
Tbf the evidence for the second person is not strong - that stuff does legit happen.
But the first guy? Damn! That’s enough right there.
Tryptaminev@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Well isn’t there a ruling in aircraft design and safety, that you calculate the probability of a certain failure and judge by its reoccurence if it was just random, or more than likely systematic?
I think i read this in context to the two MAX planes crashing in the exact same way. The first one was ruled as maybe just being some very very freak thing to happen, but it happening twice made it entirely implausible to be without systematic cause.
And well now it is happening twice in a few years with Boeing that weird things happen twice in a row with little time in between in relation to critical security flaws.
afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I did do the math on it and the second guy only had a 1 in 3630 chance of dying of natural causes in that time window.
NuXCOM_90Percent@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
Yes. What you are listing are coincidences.
Also understand that it is pretty rare for a whistleblower to have any future in the industry they are blowing the whistle on. That is throwing away years of schooling and often decades of experience. People tend to not do that if they aren’t already ill and not expecting a long life.
As for “if I die, it is not suicide”: Gonna get real dark for a moment. A lot of people are just looking for a way to make their life, or death, matter. Someone realizing they don’t want to put themselves and their family through a very long trial might very well use that as an excuse to take the easy way out.
All that said: Obviously these need to be investigated. But there is a big difference between investigating a suspicious death and immediately jumping to conspiracy.
Kedly@lemm.ee 6 months ago
How is your take also not a conspiracy theory?
rsuri@lemmy.world 6 months ago
There’s 2 kinds of evidence.
- Circumstantial evidence - relies on an inference to connect it to the conclusion (e.g. guy saying before hand he won’t kill himself).
- Direct evidence - no additional inference/evidence is needed (e.g. video of a guy going up to the car and shooting him).
The guy saying he won’t kill himself requires inferring that he’s being truthful when he said it and that he didn’t change his mind. It’s not non-evidence, it does point to suicide being less likely. But it’s far from conclusive.
They just happened to work at the same company and die right before they could testify on the same thing.
That’s also a common misunderstanding, at least regarding the first (I’m not as familiar with the second). The first had just testified at a Boeing-led deposition, and had one more day left. Problem with that is - it’s Boeing’s deposition. If they didn’t want him to testify the second day, all they’d need to do is cancel the deposition. Generally you do a deposition to get an opposing witness to make admissions that can be used against them at trial if necessary, and/or demonstrate to the other side that they don’t have a case so you can force them to settle before trial. So Boeing had little reason to kill him before their own deposition was over. The only reason they’d do it then was to silence him generally…but doing it in a way that draws so much suspicion to them seems like an implausibly bad decision. Then again, it is Boeing.
ripcord@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Its also inferring his friend is being truthful when he said that’s what the guy said.
afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 6 months ago
there’s no sign of entering the vehicle
Hey.
Yeah?
See this gun?
I do.
Kill yourself with it or I will kill everyone in your family. Here is a list of their names and addresses.
What if I kill you instead?
Guys who sent me will send someone else.
sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
That guy also had a history of mental issues and anxiety. He was away from home experiencing high stress environments, like a court room, and he was looking at another court appearance that day.
It doesn’t take a genius to see that maybe, just maybe, this is a coincidence instead of murder. He had already given the bulk of his testimony, so I really don’t see the motive here.
afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Testimony is thrown out because he was obviously mentally unstable
EvolvedTurtle@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Can I have source plz
I’m not doubting you it’s just that’s so comedic I need to see it for myself
unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 6 months ago
There is plenty of evidence of foul play you smartass. They willingly risked lives over many years and are still currently flying many planes with defective unsafe parts. Going from that to assasination is not a big leap.
Multiple of the whistleblowers and their colleagues have also independently said that their workplace was directly and deliberately sabotaged in order to continue using defective parts.
woop_woop@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Well…the first dude did say something about Boeing killing whistleblowers and the bravery of others to step up in defiance of that.
So that whole line of thinking is conspiracy theory stuff with no real proof and it is being parroted here. Granted, usually the assassination stuff is usually tongue in cheek, but the top comment seems a bit crazy.
unexposedhazard@discuss.tchncs.de 6 months ago
I agree that calling it “killing whistleblowers” is a bit too early, but for the point that the top comment was making, it doesnt actually matter. Because his point was about the bravery of the other whistleblowers coming out and for that it doesnt matter if they actually got killed or not.
The 10 other whistleblowers are brave because there is a good chance that at least one of the whistleblowers was killed. They are still brave even if it turns out that the first two died of natural causes or suicide.
Rooskie91@discuss.online 6 months ago
Even if the dude that “killed himself” did do it to himself, he did so because he was harassed by a company for doing his job. Even in the non conspiracy version of the story, the corporation still acted in bad faith and should be held liable for it’s actions. Why is this the hill you want to die on?
ripcord@lemmy.world 6 months ago
OK, but that’s a pretty big difference from hiring a hitman to explicitly murder him.
Yes, it is different.
No one is saying Boeing execs shouldn’t be prosecuted.
Hegar@kbin.social 6 months ago
It's very naive to think that a weapons dealer who also kills it's commercial airline passengers for profit isn't also killing whistleblowers.
rusticus@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Nice try Boeing
woop_woop@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I’m on your side dude, the response here is kinda nuts.
bolexforsoup@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 months ago
It’s baffling man.
the_post_of_tom_joad@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Bolexforpoop back wih pigshit again. The reason i don’t block you is your neverending entertainment value. Keep posting king.
Snowpix@lemmy.ca 6 months ago
Three-day old account, I wouldn’t be surprised if they had another one that was banned.
bolexforsoup@lemmy.blahaj.zone 6 months ago
I made this account which has the same name as my kbin.social account that is almost a year old. This isn’t some grand attempt at masking my intentions or ban evading. I chose the same name for a reason.
possiblylinux127@lemmy.zip 6 months ago
2 people dying is kind of fishy.
Cheskaz@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I needed to see this, just in general, today
EvolvedTurtle@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I mean If it was an organized thing then I’m not sure it’s so dumb
They can kill two people but if ten more people die it would look really bad on there part and would become undeniable
tonyn@lemmy.ml 6 months ago
It already looks really bad
afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I don’t know seems like everyone I know is convinced that the first two murders were coincidence. What is keeping 10 more being that way?
John_McMurray@lemmy.world 6 months ago
The first was probably murder, the second just coincidence.
psycho_driver@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Or they just tried harder to make it seem like a coincidence.
chiliedogg@lemmy.world 6 months ago
I was talking to someone the other day who was really bent out of shape over an extremely unpleasant customer. The kind of interaction that sticks with you for years.
I told my perspective on people. We tend to remember remarkable things - stuff that really stands out from the normal. The news media does the same thing. Normal, everyday stuff isn’t “newsworthy.”
So when an asshole customer stands out that much, it’s because it’s such a rare experience. People are mostly good, so the goodness doesn’t stand out.
Excrubulent@slrpnk.net 6 months ago
Yeah, bad customers can ruin your day, but I remember doing customer service that one good customer with a nice smile can make your day good again. That’s why I always make an effort to be as nice as possible.
systemglitch@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Anyone saying humans suck and are terrible is likely a terrible person themselves. Decent people tend to see the better aspect of humanity.
Sanguine@lemmy.world 6 months ago
This is a leap. You can be a good person and also see that people as a whole can be both wonderful and absolutely terrible. This is a story about a mega corp murdering two whistleblowers, so far. In this case, the people involved in making this a headline suck and are terrible.
pressanykeynow@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Counterpoint. There was one whistleblower killed, there are lots of people on this case like Boeing staff, government employees, the police, senators, the president, who haven’t done shit. Now there are two murders. Any of the people who SHOULD be doing something about it doing anything? No. Now there are 12 brave people against the thousands of shit people.
EatATaco@lemm.ee 6 months ago
Funny, just yesterday probably I was arguing with someone in another thread that was saying the people here don’t actually think Boeing had these whistleblowers killed, it was just making “implications and jokes.”
And here, very clearly, with a massive number of upvotes we have someone claiming that Boeing had them killed and that resulted in brave souls coming out afterward. lol
However, this also exposes another huge complaint I have with your typical lemmy-er (lemming? lemmite? what do you call a user of lemmy?): Almost no one reads the fucking article.
This isn’t about new whistleblowers coming out, but their lawyer claiming he is afraid that current whistle blowers will be “scared away.”
But, of course, what I’ve learned on reddit and even more so on lemmy is that the facts don’t matter, only the narrative.
natarey@lemmy.world 6 months ago
You are describing the human species.
fxt_ryknow@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Agreed. Although I will say… While people not reading the articles was extremely common on reddit… Sadly, I feel like Lemmy is even worse about it.
EatATaco@lemm.ee 6 months ago
When I first started on reddit many years ago, while it was clear some people didn’t read the article, usually the top comment in the thread usually showed that they read the article, unless it was some kind joke. Over time it definitely got worse.
I was hoping when jumping to Lemmy that I would be able to recapture some of that magic.
Lemmy has a lot of good things going for it, but what I got in that regard is the top comment, with 100% upvotes, clearly not having read the article and spewing some unsubstantiated conspiratorial claims. It’s like being in r/conspiracy sometimes.
Grandwolf319@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Yeah if you think we don’t do our due deligence, you should go to more right leaning social media, it’s all sound bites and knee jerk reactions.
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 6 months ago
Same as it ever was
Guy_Fieris_Hair@lemmy.world 6 months ago
Yes, varying people have different opinions on subjects. It is easy to think a comment with upvotes is the way the hivemind goes, but the hivemind has multiple factions.
I, personally, hace no opinion on the matter. The dude was septic and had a stroke. While it seems unlikely that was murder, I guess it is possible if you have infinite resources to make it look natural. But that is one HELL of a coincidence to have two whistle-blowers die . … like. … pretty fucking insane. Watch these next ten all die and no one important bats an eye.