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Comment on Google: 'Your $1000 phone needs our permission to install apps now'". Android users are screwed - Louis Rossmann

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Dremor@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

Removable batteries are coming back, as they become mandatory in the EU in 2027. Or you can already get one with a Fairphone (which also has SD card slot). As for the headphone jack, I’m afraid it won’t come back. Bluetooth alternative es are far better these days, and good adapters (like Apple one) are barely more than $10.

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raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Bluetooth alternatives are far better these days

Disputable.

they are cable-less, thus need to be charged separately

they are cable-less, thus it is easier to lose them

bluetooth implementation is a potential security vulnerability

transmission by radio will always be less energy efficient than transmission by wire
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- peoplebeproblems@midwest.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I liked the whole not having to charge headphones thing more than anything.
  
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  - tomiant@programming.dev ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I liked being able to accidentally brush up against my headphones without them turning off my music.
    
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- HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  i’m a musician, have a trained ear and even with mild tinnitus have yet to see any BT audio transmission that matches the fidelity of cables.
  
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  - raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    That aspect did pop into my head but I am not qualified to comment as I never use any wireless headsets, nor are my ears trained enough for fully appreciating hi-fi quality.
    
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- potustheplant@feddit.nl ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Missed a few things.
  
  They are cable-less, thus they use a battery and have a shorter lifespan
  
  The batteries they use are generally not user replaceable do they turn into e-waste rather quickly
  
  Due to the reduced bluetooth bandwidth, call quality is crap
  
  Sound quality is worse than a wired headphone that costs the same
  
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- Dremor@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  they are cable-less, thus need to be charged separatel
  
  If you wish for ANC you’ll need a battery anyway, and most people do want ANC these days
  
  they are cable-less, thus it is easier to lose them
  
  I’m loosing my wired headphone far more often, for a simple reason: them having a battery allows me to make them beep, given they are near, of course.
  
  bluetooth implementation is a potential security vulnerability
  
  Sure, and so are wired headphone as they act as an antenna, broadcasting to anyone with an appropriate receptor anything you say and/or hear.
  As for the implementation vulnerabilities, at least it can be patched.
  
  transmission by radio will always be less energy efficient than transmission by wire
  
  Sure, but is it that much of a problem? It would take years (if not decades) of constant listening to even use a dollar of electricity for wireless headphones. Even if you factor the data transmission from the phone into that.
  And wired headphone are not energy neutral either. They works by pulling energy from the phone battery.
  
  I prefer the wireless headphones ease of use to headphone I have to untangle every time I want to use them. I keep my wired ones for home uses.
  
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- merc@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  they are cable-less, thus need to be charged separately
  
  Not a major drawback, IMO.
  
  they are cable-less, thus it is easier to lose them
  
  True, but I haven’t lost any in the something like 6 years I’ve been using them.
  
  bluetooth implementation is a potential security vulnerability
  
  What’s your threat model? Who’s going to be attacking your security via your headphones? What happens if they succeed?
  
  IMO this is a pretty ridiculous drawback, it’s like saying “wired headphones are worse because the wire can be used as a garrote”, which is true, but not an actual drawback for 99.999% of people.
  
  transmission by radio will always be less energy efficient than transmission by wire
  
  So what?
  
  IMO the drawbacks of wired headphones are:
  
  The cable often gets tangled, and it’s a pain in the ass to untangle it
  
  The cable can often get snagged on things, and if that happens the best thing that can happen is that the headphones can go flying out of your ears. The worst thing that can happen is that the phone goes flying out of your pocket and smashes on the ground.
  
  The cables can get dirty and frayed, and if they get too frayed they can break or get worn down so they have an iffy connection.
  
  Even when the cable isn’t tangled, just arranging the wire so it’s out of the way, long enough to get to your ears, but not so long it gets tangled can be frustrating.
  
  Trying to use your phone for anything else while your headphones are attached can be a problem. Say you want to take a picture of something, or pay for something using NFC, you have to be careful of the cable. If you had the cable tucked into your shirt or zipped up in your jacket so it’s out of the way, now the cable might not be long enough anymore.
  
  Because of the wire, you’re limited in where you can put your phone, and your head has to always be within a short distance to your phone. With a wireless headset you can choose to put the phone in a knapsack if that’s more convenient, and when you put down the knapsack you can take a few steps away from it without losing your connection and interrupting whatever you’re listening to.
  
  If you’re doing something like working in the kitchen while listening to music or a podcast, you can’t put your phone down on the counter and use it to look at a recipe, because as soon as you have to move to go get another ingredient, or to move from the cutting board to the sink, you have to pick the phone up again. And that can be a real issue if you have goop on your hands and you’re moving to the sink to wash them off.
  
  In cold weather / winter you might want to have your phone in a jacket or something. If you go inside and take the jacket off you either have to pause things while you transfer the phone to another pocket and rearrange the wire, or you have to do this complicated dance where you clear the wire and move the phone without accidentally yanking the wire out of the phone or out of your ears. With a wireless headset you just take the phone and move it to a new pocket whenever that’s convenient.
  
  ~~The headphone wire is a potential personal security vulnerability as a ninja can use it to garrote you.~~
  
  The drawbacks for a wireless headset are:
  
  They tend to have batteries that can’t be replaced, so eventually they lose their ability to hold a charge and need to be replaced. It can get really annoying to use them when the batteries are starting to fail and they hold less than an hour of charge.
  
  They tend to be much more expensive than wired headphones.
  
  Wireless buds are easier to lose, and easier to drop. If you drop them they can bounce and roll under things, or into the street or who knows where.
  
  They do eventually run out of charge, and you do have to charge them, and sometimes they can be low on charge / out of charge when you want to use them.
  
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  - potustheplant@feddit.nl ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    First of all, you’re forgetting that the actual problem is that the headphone jack does not require you remove bluetooth from the device. The issue here is giving user less options and more costly “solutions”.
    
    The cable often gets tangled, and it’s a pain in the ass to untangle it
    
    Git gud. It’s not that hard to roll up the cable so that it doesn’t tangle. Worst case scenario, you can buy a small case.
    
    The cable can often get snagged on things, and if that happens the best thing that can happen is that the headphones can go flying out of your ears. The worst thing that can happen is that the phone goes flying out of your pocket and smashes on the ground.
    
    Run the cable through your shirt. Problem solved.
    
    The cables can get dirty and frayed, and if they get too frayed they can break or get worn down so they have an iffy connection.
    
    Use headphones with a replaceable wire. That way you can use a cable with or without a mic or use different lentghs. Hell, you can even make your own and they’re cheap. Even if the wire isn’t easily replaceable, most headphones can be fixed with a bit of patience and a soldering iron.
    
    Even when the cable isn’t tangled, just arranging the wire so it’s out of the way, long enough to get to your ears, but not so long it gets tangled can be frustrating.
    
    You’re just doing mental gymnastics at this point.
    
    Trying to use your phone for anything else while your headphones are attached can be a problem. Say you want to take a picture of something, or pay for something using NFC, you have to be careful of the cable. If you had the cable tucked into your shirt or zipped up in your jacket so it’s out of the way, now the cable might not be long enough anymore.
    
    Or you can, I don’t know, unplug the headphones for 2 seconds.
    
    Because of the wire, you’re limited in where you can put your phone, and your head has to always be within a short distance to your phone. With a wireless headset you can choose to put the phone in a knapsack if that’s more convenient, and when you put down the knapsack you can take a few steps away from it without losing your connection and interrupting whatever you’re listening to.
    
    Redundant. Also, put your phone in your pocket and stop whinin’.
    
    If you’re doing something like working in the kitchen while listening to music or a podcast, you can’t put your phone down on the counter and use it to look at a recipe, because as soon as you have to move to go get another ingredient, or to move from the cutting board to the sink, you have to pick the phone up again. And that can be a real issue if you have goop on your hands and you’re moving to the sink to wash them off.
    
    My man, are you allergic to speakers? You’re cooking in a kitchen. Lose the headphones.
    
    In cold weather / winter you might want to have your phone in a jacket or something. If you go inside and take the jacket off you either have to pause things while you transfer the phone to another pocket and rearrange the wire, or you have to do this complicated dance where you clear the wire and move the phone without accidentally yanking the wire out of the phone or out of your ears. With a wireless headset you just take the phone and move it to a new pocket whenever that’s convenient.
    
    Skill issue. Run your wire underneath your jacket and you won’t have this “”“problem”“”.
    
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    merc@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    Run the cable through your shirt. Problem solved.
    
    New problem created. Now when you want to take your phone out of your pocket to take a picture of something or scan it for an NFT sale you can’t do that easily because you have this wire running through your shirt connecting your phone to your headphones. Also, if it’s winter, now your phone has to go in an inner pocket not an outer one so you can’t easily access it anymore.
    
    Or you can, I don’t know, unplug the headphones for 2 seconds.
    
    And start blasting whatever you’re listening to to the whole world? Well, you could pause what you’re listening to first. Don’t you see how this is much less convenient than wireless headphones where you don’t have to make all these compromises?
    
    Redundant. Also, put your phone in your pocket and stop whinin’.
    
    Ah, accept a less convenient alternative because of the limitations of the wires. Sure, sounds great.
    
    My man, are you allergic to speakers? You’re cooking in a kitchen.
    
    You’re cooking in a kitchen. There are loud fans, loud kettles. Why would you use a speaker that you have to turn way up to blast over all that noise? What’s wrong with you. Use headphones, you’re in a kitchen!
    
    Skill issue. Run your wire underneath your jacket and you won’t have this “”“problem”“”.
    
    Now you have the other problems with your phone being inside an inner pocket and not easily accessible for doing things like taking pictures or doing NFT transactions. You really haven’t thought this through, have you?
    
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- 418_im_a_teapot@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  BT 6.1 introduced Randomized RPA (Resolvable Private Address) which should help with some of the security issues. That said I wouldn’t expect to see headphones implementing 6.1 for quite some time. It just came out in May.
  
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- spongebue@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  they are cable-less, thus need to be charged separately
  
  I’ll give you that, but my bone conduction headset lasts a few days with the amount I use
  
  they are cable-less, thus it is easier to lose them
  
  Meh. I’ve put corded earbuds in my pocket and probably worn them out faster that way. Bluetooth headsets I tend to leave on (much to my wife’s annoyance) and that makes them last longer in my experience.
  
  bluetooth implementation is a potential security vulnerability
  
  Aha, that van outside must be tapping into me listening to The Dandy Warhols! I knew it! (In all seriousness, if security is that critical you probably shouldn’t be doing whatever it is over WiFi, which is pretty much unavoidable with a phone)
  
  transmission by radio will always be less energy efficient than transmission by wire
  
  Are we really talking about saving energy here? That’s like… Moisture in the bucket levels. Not even a drop in the bucket
  
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  - Wildmimic@piefed.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I agree with you, even if you are downvoted. I've wrecked more in-ear buds by (non-replaceable) broken cable than i can count, while i'm on my 3rd bluetooth headphone in about 10 years - i lost none of them, and the second one is still around as backup.
    
    The security is a thing that can be patched if it pops up and is only an issue if your OPSEC differs strongly from the common citizen, and the energy argument comes across like a purity test - the light in my fridge probably uses more energy.
    
    I would never go back to cable, especially since noise cancelling doesn't work without a battery anyway - and i am very unhappy without noise cancelling.
    
    Also, i have a power bank where i can use 21600 Li-ion Battery cells as power source - on travels i take a few batteries with me, and even if i find myself for weeks without power, i will have it whenever i need it.
    
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- GraniteM@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I have two devices, one is my phone, and one only plays music. I only ever use my phone as my phone, and my music device as my music device in my car, and both run over Bluetooth.
  
  It is a crapshoot as to which role my car will assign to which device. Sometimes I have to put my phone in airplane mode so that the car won’t try to assign it the media player role in Bluetooth settings. I’m not impressed.
  
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  - WhyJiffie@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    check the Bluetooth settings on your phone. on mine, I can disallow roles that a peripheral could get, like media audio, phone calls, etc
    
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  - Patches@ttrpg.network ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    That has a lot more to do with the car itself.
    
    If you ever want to talk about a shit OS…
    
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AndyMFK@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Bluetooth alternatives aren’t better, that’s laughable.

You cant buy beyerdynamics DT-990s with Bluetooth, you cant get Sennheiser HD 490 Pros with Bluetooth, you cant buy Audeze LCD-5s with Bluetooth. I could go on and on but you get the point. Good headphones don’t use Bluetooth.

The nice headphones a lot of us have had for years, well before the headphone jack was removed don’t have Bluetooth.

So when you say they’re better 1. You’re wrong. And 2. You’re missing the point.

If you prefer Bluetooth, fine, but phones with headphone jacks still have Bluetooth. You’re only ok with it because it doesn’t effect you and I think that’s appalling.

Imagine phone manufacturers remove the ability to use Bluetooth headphones and I say “that’s fine, wired headphones are better anyway”. It’s not about that, it’s about removing your freedom to choose and it should NOT be tolerated

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- Archr@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  You are right. But for >99% of users Bluetooth is a perfectly sufficient connection format for headphones.
  
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  - RheumatoidArthritis@mander.xyz ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I work in IT and pairing bluetooth is sometimes so finnicky i give up for a few days. I can accept that I’m not that great at IT but I don’t think 99% of people don’t have these problems.
    
    And it’s not a thing you do one time, most of these gadgets need re-pairing every sone time for whatever reason.
    
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    Archr@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Oh I’ll agree that sometimes Bluetooth pairing can be finicky.
    
    But the person I replied to was talking about how Bluetooth is not good enough for audiophile quality headphones. But most people don’t care and can’t even notice the difference.
    
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- Dremor@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  There are a lot of very good Bluetooth headphones from Bose, Sony, and the like. If you take a look at lab tests, most of lf them got a frequency response pretty close to the ideal curve, and ANC helps a lot to isolate outside noises that would drown out the music on wired headphones.
  
  But I do agree about choice, just not on the blind refusal of using USB-C adapters. That’s unfortunate that they removed it, but it has some good reasons. A headphone jack wasn’t made to be waterproof, and if some managed to make some of them waterproof-ish, it is often by enclosing it into its own little sub-enclosure, with a good short-circuit protection (because even a tiny water drop in there mean a short), both of which takes place.
  Same goes for the DAC, we got so far into miniaturizing it, and inside interferences are so high now with new technologies, it probably wouldn’t be viable anymore to have it inside the phone itself. Even larger device, like the Steam Deck, have problems preventing interferences on the headphones jack, so that must be an even bigger problem on something as tinny as a phone 😅
  
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  - HeyThisIsntTheYMCA@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    citing bose and sony vs sennheiser audeze and beyerdynamics, dude, you don’t know headphones
    
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    Dremor@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I trust in independent reviews, reproducible tests and hard numbers, not in brand cultivated images and subjective choices. I don’t care if it comes for Audeze, Sony, or a Chinese Knockoff, numbers doesn’t lie.
    
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Resonosity@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Phones that run Linux and have a headphone jack:

volla.online/en/volla-phone-x23/

furilabs.com/shop/flx1/

puri.sm/products/librem-5/#tech-specs

pine64.org/devices/pinephone/

2026 will be the year of the Linux phone!
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- peoplebeproblems@midwest.social ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Hmmm. Then I would need to figure out how my authenticators would work. I have like 3 different ones for a total of like 18 accounts. It’s annoying as all hell
  
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- foggenbooty@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I’d love for that to be the case, but without a lot more polish and the ability to run Android apps in some kind of sandbox I don’t see it happening.
  
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  - dil@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    need more ppl to adopt it while its shitty for that point to ever come
    
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- humanspiral@lemmy.ca ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  2026 will be the year of the Linux phone!
  
  or 2027. Or some Chinese variant of android on Chinese/Taiwan phone that allows sideloading, perhaps with alternate playstore and maps. I don’t yet understand how draconian this actually gets implemented, but death of android/google (to me) is possible.
  
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tibi@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
No, bluetooth is not better. Bluetooth has latency which is bad for anything that needs realtime audio, like video games or any kind of live performance. It also runs on 2.4 like every other electronic Wireless devices making it prone to interference.

USB C is also inferior because you need dongles which increase complexity of your setup, it’s more prone to failures. Like audio cutting off every x minutes because connection is just slightly loose or other electronic gremlins. I’m saying this having just had a gig and the MD’s phone we relied on for the metronome started acting up during the performance not recognizing the dongle until a reboot.

Audio jacks were simple, analog, worked perfectly fine and delivered high quality audio. What we have now is overengineered slop that is less reliable and more expensive.

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RampantParanoia2365@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Bluetooth is better than…it used to be? Because I promise you there is no earbud on planet earth better than my open back cans.

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lennivelkant@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I never had one of my wired earbuds fall off the platform at the train station and disappear in the gravel, nor did I ever have isues with forgetting to charge them, let alone their case being brolen and not charging at all. And if I want to switch my favourite headphones over from my PC to my phone, I’m really glad my old phone still has a jack.

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Kuranashi@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I still have a headphone jack. Rare but Androids with them exist if you go out of the mainstream bullshit.

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gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
saying “bluetooth alternatives are far better these days” ignores the uses cases for cable.

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int32@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I have a fp4 and it is VERY annoying to not have jack(I don’t wanna use bluetooth because jack works, doesn’t need a battery and is low tech), so now I only listen to music on my computer, but I’m planning on making an mp3 player with a raspberry pi pico.

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olympicyes@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
The Apple adapter is very good. I used one on my Linux machine that had a finicky built in port. Obviously works great on a phone. If you need one in a car at least MagSafe/qi is available now but not ideal.

I don’t love the idea of “removable” batteries being mandated if that means like the batteries in an old flip phone. We needed them then because the capacity was so bad and power banks didn’t exist. I would prefer that manufacturers require them to be third party replaceable instead.

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- Dremor@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  They have to be user removable, not hot-removable. Take a FP6 as an example, you have to remove a couple of screw to get to it, then another couple to remove it. What are forbidden will be glued batteries and back panels.
  
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  - olympicyes@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    That’s convenient to swap a battery but I feel like my phone is more likely to get soaked than need a battery swap at any time in the next two years. The FP6 is IP55 rated.
    
    Looks like FP6 battery is £45 and iPhone 14 is £60-£90 depending where you buy it. I know I can get that done in the next hour or two where I live, so I don’t see it as a big deal.
    
    The replaceable camera feature is more compelling because a broken front iPhone camera can effectively brick the device.
    
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    Dremor@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    A replaceable usb-c port is great too. My previous Nokia 8.1 died because of that, and my previous FP5 needed a replacement after 2 years of use.
    
    But I agree that Fairphone have work to do on waterproofing their phones. It was hard with the previous hand removable back panel, but now that they added screws to the back panel, it wouldn’t be that much of a a stretch to add some o-rings to further waterproof it. I’m sure they could get it to IP66 rather easily, maybe IP67 with a little more work.
    
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    Korhaka@sopuli.xyz ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    My phone is IP68 and you can replace the battery. Does require removing some screws to get the case off but I think that would pretty much be required to waterproof it anyway.
    
    Shame they discontinued Cat phones
    
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MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Fairphone is too big, i don’t want a phablet in my pocket

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Sneptaur@pawb.social ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
The removable batteries coming back would also impact the iPhone, which actually respects user privacy because Apple is not a marketing company. Apple is a products and services company, they sell tech devices and make a lot of money on services like Apple Music and TV+ and such. It’s expensive for a reason; you can even take the encryption keys out of Apple’s hands for iCloud so you genuinely are fully protected

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Honytawk@lemmy.zip ⁨3⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
So what if Bluetooth are “better”?

Still no reason to not have both.

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lepinkainen@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
They won’t become “removable” like in ye old Nokia days. It’s not like you can carry extra batteries and just swap them on the go.

They just have to be swappable without special tools or specialist equipment.

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