Without paywall: archive.ph/2Ir4Q
Wonder how many C-level execs get in trouble? /s
F.A.A. Audit of Boeing’s 737 Max Production Found Dozens of Issues
Submitted 8 months ago by ylai@lemmy.ml to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/03/11/us/politics/faa-audit-boeing-737-max.html
Comments
FenrirIII@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Oneser@lemm.ee 8 months ago
I don’t think this ends in beheadings, but there will (hopefully) be significant follow on effects. A threat to consumer confidence in flying is a risk to the entire industry, all Boeing’s competitors and the airlines will be screaming for the FAA to get the actions right here…
BearOfaTime@lemm.ee 8 months ago
One would think so, but I haven’t heard a peep out of them.
Weird.
theneverfox@pawb.social 8 months ago
Competitors… You mean Airbus, the EU sponsored counterpart to Boeing? And literally no one else?
There’s almost no competition in the airliner space - both Boeing and Airbus are also state subsidised to a certain extent. Their mere existence is a strategic asset.
Either of them failing would have large global consequences… At worst, Boeing might no longer be able to hire their own FCC inspectors… At worst.
ArtVandelay@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I ran the calculations, but I got a divide by zero error
ji17br@lemmy.ml 8 months ago
Infinite?
CptEnder@lemmy.world 8 months ago
It’s funny I know someone who’s an exec at Boeing Space, which is practically a completely different company and 99% a gov contractor. Let’s just say the SLS hassss to work flawlessly because its got “Boeing” written all over its parts, luckily NASA is leading the project so it’ll probably go as planned.
afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 8 months ago
That has got to be a depressing job. I can’t imagine the pain of being involved in starliner and SLS.
johannesvanderwhales@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Well, they did already have a CEO resign over the 737-Max.
CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Yeh but that guy wasn’t even in charge when that project was laid out and he got a massive golden parachute. Paid sacrafical lamb for PR purposes.
patatahooligan@lemmy.world 8 months ago
According to The Guardian he got $60M in stock and pension for being fired. Also it seems that stock price didn’t fall much after the crashes and the grounding. It is only after COVID hit that Boeing’s price plummeted. So it might be only by pure luck that he lost anything of value at all.
misterundercoat@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Is “dozens” a large amount?
Never-nudes: no
Safety flaws in aircraft production: yes
afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 8 months ago
This reminds me so much of a client I had a while back. Safety inspector found one possible violation and what followed was a scream fest with cussing on the floor. Suddenly a lot more violations were found.
Cypher@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Alternatively if you’re a worker you scream and make a big deal and the real issues get found.
sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz 8 months ago
If Boeing stock drops another $30 or so, I’m going to have to buy some.
inclementimmigrant@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I really, really hate capitalism most days but play the game I suppose.
gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
lol yep, this describes my outlook as well. I can play the game, and I’m actually decent at it, but the game is absolutely, categorically awful, and it’d be great for humanity at large if we could all stop playing it.
CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Think of it as a win win. If a company you hate does well then you get consolation money. If it does badly then thats nice too.
SkybreakerEngineer@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Username checks out?
Joker@discuss.tchncs.de 8 months ago
Why? I think there’s a decent chance they don’t survive this - at least their commercial airplanes. I won’t fly on a Boeing any time soon, if ever. It will take years to get back to a safety culture and there are tons of shit planes manufactured in the past several years that will be in service for decades.
If I was a pilot, I wouldn’t want to fly one either. They just had another incident where a pilot says the gauges went blank and he lost control. If a pilot union starts pushing back, it’s game over.
Would you fly on one of their planes?
afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Because the US government is going to seem them too big to fail. Too many jobs, too much lobbying, and too many government contracts.
sin_free_for_00_days@sopuli.xyz 8 months ago
They’re the airplane manufacturer in the US at that scale. There is zero chance the gov’t will let them fail.
JustUseMint@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Boeing isn’t going anywhere, they’re a major part of the US MIC and DoD contracts will keep em afloat. They clearly don’t care about civilian affairs, based on their QC as seen here, imo
afraid_of_zombies@lemmy.world 8 months ago
You should. Government isn’t going to let them go under. At least not in a crash and burn sense.
DAMunzy@lemmy.dbzer0.com 8 months ago
I still have two from when I was a youngin’. 😞
Hiro8811@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Why do boening planes sound like Linux file permissions?
kevincox@lemmy.ml 8 months ago
737 is a very unusual file permission. But IIRC it actually works as intended. The group that owns the file can’t read it but can write and execute. However I suspect you can probably figure out a way to drop the relevant group?
captain_aggravated@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
Few of them make sense, but 787 raises the most questions.
DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz 8 months ago
Are these facilities not regularly audited by a 3rd party to maintain their ISO certifications? The stuff mentioned in the article (key card feeler gauge…WTF!?) would/should have been caught in any routine audit.
_lilith@lemmy.world 8 months ago
They are audited by FAA “compliance officers” who conveniently are employees of the company they are auditing. No conflict of interest at all
r00ty@kbin.life 8 months ago
Base pay $25,000
Performance related bonus per quarter:
0 issues found: $25,000
1+ issues found: $0DreadPotato@sopuli.xyz 8 months ago
That’s absolutely insane…why is it not a requirement to have audits performed by a third party? This is laughably ridiculous, especially for an industry that claims to be focused on safety and quality.
PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
That’s bullshit. FAA audits some things, but quality audits are third party. Here it’s usually SAI global.
C126@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
Dude. Regulatory agencies are corrupt as heck. There’s no incentive to be a good auditor and actually dig deep to find issues and lots of incentive to have no findings. They’re all buddies with the management.
PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
We get AS9100 audits routinely. Also, for sub-tiers, we get customer audits.
The key card is fucking hilarious and I am going to give some friends some shit for that. But, no, every process isn’t fully audited constantly. Any employee in visual distance should have called that shit out, though. It’s not hard to get a feeler gauge stack or even a custom ground go/no go. Though would they know to check their feeler stack with a mic? Not likely if they think using a key card is reasonable.
avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
Aah, the famous hotel key card feeler gauge! 🥹
PsychedSy@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
I’ve used my badge before, but not for production processes. It’s more of a ‘damn that gap is big’ thing.
autotldr@lemmings.world [bot] 8 months ago
This is the best summary I could come up with:
A six-week audit by the Federal Aviation Administration of Boeing’s production of the 737 Max jet found dozens of problems throughout the manufacturing process at the plane maker and one of its key suppliers, according to a slide presentation reviewed by The New York Times.
Last week, the agency announced that the audit had found “multiple instances” in which Boeing and the supplier, Spirit AeroSystems, failed to comply with quality-control requirements, though it did not provide specifics about the findings.
Since the Alaska Airlines episode, Boeing has come under intense scrutiny over its quality-control practices, and the findings add to the body of evidence about manufacturing lapses at the company.
At one point during the examination, the air-safety agency observed mechanics at Spirit using a hotel key card to check a door seal, according to a document that describes some of the findings.
Asked about the appropriateness of using a hotel key card or Dawn soap in those situations, a spokesman for Spirit, Joe Buccino, said the company was “reviewing all identified nonconformities for corrective action.”
The audit raised concerns about the Spirit technicians who carried out the work and found that the company “failed to determine the knowledge necessary for the operation of its processes.”
The original article contains 902 words, the summary contains 206 words. Saved 77%. I’m a bot and I’m open source!
mox@lemmy.sdf.org 8 months ago
This looks like the full text without a paywall:
BilboBargains@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I would imagine you can find safety flaws in anything because safety isn’t a thing we can measure.
stembolts@programming.dev 8 months ago
I’m going to take a leap of faith and say you don’t work in aviation…
Step one… define safety in the context of the airplane.
Step two… measure it.So yea. If safety is never defined it cannot be measured. But is the sentiment you are attempting to express is that measurable safety guidelines have not been defined for these massively complicated airplanes?
Maybe I am misunderstanding because at first glance this is one of the dumbest things I have ever read, please elaborate.
How do you think safety is verified?
BilboBargains@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Safety cannot be measured because it’s a feeling. One person feels safe climbing a mountain without a rope and the next person is petrified. Safety is just word to describe a concept. It’s different to the wavelength of light or force or charge. These things are based on fundamental properties of the universe that can be measured and are repeatable.
A reasonable approximation might be to consider the likelihood of an adverse event given a use case over time. We could say that an accident every million hours is our definition of safe but that is completely arbitrary in the way that the physical laws and constants are not.
Hacksaw@lemmy.ca 8 months ago
“safety isn’t a thing we can measure” says a guy who knows nothing about measuring risk and assumes it means no one in the world does either.
BilboBargains@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I take a lot of risks but never with yo mama. I always take my time with her.
sigmaklimgrindset@sopuli.xyz 8 months ago
I’m sorry, idk why but this comment is so funny. Like I’m laughing irl but I can’t explain to anyone why.
azertyfun@sh.itjust.works 8 months ago
“Because safety isn’t a thing we can measure” reads exactly like a dril tweet.
… holy shit there’s a whole academic-level analysis of dril’s tweets. I am enchanted.)
sirjash@feddit.de 8 months ago
Amazing that you survived until you were able to post this crap on the internet
Holyginz@lemmy.world 8 months ago
That is the biggest load of bullshit I’ve heard in a while. Safety can ALWAYS be measured. Hell, that’s OSHA’s entire purpose!
BilboBargains@lemmy.world 8 months ago
What are the units?
Dontsendfeetpics@lemm.ee 8 months ago
[deleted]BilboBargains@lemmy.world 8 months ago
An assessment is not a measurement and safety is not an SI unit, deal with it bro.
_lilith@lemmy.world 8 months ago
drawerair@lemmy.world 8 months ago
I viewed Wendover’s Boeing vid – y2u.be/URoVKPVDKPU
The vid showed that Boeing seemed to have questionable quality control. The focus was maximizing profit. Boeing outsourced the ✈’s parts to different firms but seemed to have a loose grasp on the whole thing. As the main firm, Boeing must have keenly supervised the crucial things. It’s a key part of quality control.
Also, some knowledgeable Boeing folks left Boeing. Brain drain.
EdibleFriend@lemmy.world 8 months ago
Killing that guy should fix this.
billiam0202@lemmy.world 8 months ago
What do you mean “a whistleblower in the middle of testifying against Boeing’s shoddy and unsafe construction practices decides to off himself in a hotel parking lot” isn’t normal?
glowie@h4x0r.host 8 months ago
Two bullet wounds to the back of the head is perfectly normal. Happens all the time.