Sony understands only one language… MONEY. I stopped buying their products since they installed a root kit decades ago in my computer to prevent it from ripping my legally bought CDs to my computer. I had to reinstall windows to get rid of that virus. Never again! And all my electronics were Sony back then
Sony Steals Customers' Purchased Content - Piracy is COMPLETELY JUSTIFIED!
Submitted 11 months ago by dannym@lemmy.escapebigtech.info to technology@lemmy.world
https://odysee.com/@rossmanngroup:a/sony-steals-customers%27-purchased-content:d
Comments
RatherBeMTB@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
Tygr@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Hey, just wanted to say I’m glad a few of us remember the rootkit fiasco. I still won’t buy Sony products today.
Nightwind@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Same here. This was such a hostile move I never bought anything “Sony” after that.
RootBeerGuy@discuss.tchncs.de 11 months ago
Yeah, fuck those rootkits. Despicable.
speaker_hat@lemmy.one 11 months ago
They do something similar on their smart TVs - it’s not possible to run Kodi with torrent streaming plugins, they block it on purpose.
gila@lemm.ee 11 months ago
How is it blocked? Could you work around it with a debrid service? i.e no torrent protocol
FauxPseudo@lemmy.world 11 months ago
A) which CD did you buy that had the Sony rootkit? B) decades ago? No. It’s only been 18 years.
raynethackery@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Sarah McLachlan, Surfacing. Shout out to Mark Russinovich for exposing it.
loki_d20@lemmy.world 11 months ago
What I love about this whole thing is that it’s not just Sony’s fault but they’re getting all the blame because WB would pull all their future content if Sony bad-mouthed them.
Throwaway4669332255@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Sony choose to not offer refunds. Sony knew the contract when they agreed to sell the content. When something gets pulled from steam I can still download and install it.
atrielienz@lemmy.world 11 months ago
How much of that money is their to refund? A portion of that sale went to WB? Why is WB not being asked to give a refund?
Aceticon@lemmy.world 11 months ago
It’s not the responsability of Customers to make sure what Sony’s chose contractual relationships elsewhere are - Sony can engage in whatever contractual relationships it ways whichever way it wants (and thus maximize their profits), but if it breaks one it has to pay the penalties for it, quite independently of why.
In fact it would basically make it impossible to Trade if a purchaser had to track all contractual relationships of each supplier, then of the supplier of the supplier and so on, which is why Contract Law neatly isolates each Contract relationship from all the rest and legal responsability stops at the 2 parties that engaged in a Contract (including the implied Contract in a Retail Sale) unless very explicitly stated in the contract.
So, have customers in this case entered into a Contractual Relationship where Sony gets to pull the plug whenever it feels like for any reason (which are probably invalid contractual conditions for retails customers in plenty of countries, though probably not the US which has near-zero consumer protections) in which case the problem is of the customers, or have they not in which case Sony is the one with the responsability (probably of refunding their customers) and it’s up to Sony to exercise whatever contract clauses they had with WB and claim compensation from them for their own breach of contract, if Sony had such clauses in their contract (if not, it was their own choice, so tough luck).
Son_of_dad@lemmy.world 11 months ago
They’ve done this to me. When it first came out,I bought the fallout 4 DLCs. I cleared my email one time and deleted all those old purchase receipts.
One day last year, I pop in fallout 4 and go to my file, and it says that I don’t have the dlc that corresponds to this save file. I know I bought them, so I go to the psn to redownload, but it’s asking me to pay. Long story short, I call Sony, my dlc purchase vanished at some point, and since I deleted the receipt, Sony refused to give me the content or money. They say I can’t prove I owned it, even though my files say so.
BlueDwaggin@pawb.social 11 months ago
Anecdotal, I had the same with EA. When Origin first launched, the two games I had in my EA account disappeared. Do amount of battling with their support got me anywhere, even though I had the retail copies and the serial keys.
Got to the point where I gave up. Rather play games I actually wanted to play, to than Spore and The Sims 3.
wewbull@feddit.uk 11 months ago
So they stole from you and experienced no repercussions. Great story. I hope that you’ve at least stopped buying other titles from them.
Tathas@programming.dev 11 months ago
Spore had itself a 3 or 5 installs limit before not allowing you to install it anymore.
moitoi@feddit.de 11 months ago
No credit card receipt? It might help.
PullUpCircuit@iusearchlinux.fyi 11 months ago
Banks will charge for record searched, FYI.
Aceticon@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I’m just shocked how many commenters here somehow seem to think that Sony can choose for their own profit to engage in contracts with mismatched responsabilities - i.e. a short-term contract with WB right next to a much longer term responsability towards retail customer - and not be financially responsible towards their retail customers at one end for the losses that arose from the termination of the very Contract Sony chose to sign at the opposite end.
Imagine if you hire somebody to build you a garden shed and they paid some fly-by-night company for the wood because they were cheaper and that company just to took off with the money. You think they could just legally turn to you, their customer, and say “sorry, we chose some fishy guys for the wood for your shed and they took the money and didnt gave us the wood, so now we’ll keep your money and you’re not going to get your shed. Bye bye!”.
Contract Law isolates Contractual responsabilities in any one contract (including the implied contract of a Retail Sale) to the parties in that contract alone exactly because long term contractual commitments would be de facto impossible in a world were every purchaser also ran risks on every one of their supplier’s own contracts as purchasers, in turn having the risks of their suppliers’ suppliers’ and so on as deep as the chain went.
ky56@aussie.zone 11 months ago
I think most rational people hate the game rather than Sony directly. We don’t care if that’s the rules Sony or anyone else has to play by. It’s time for the industry to evolve or die.
In-fact I reckon if we see digital retailers reject “selling” digital content because it’s not profitable due to end customers rejecting the terms, the studios licensing the content would evolve overnight.
Aceticon@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I’ve been boycotting Sony since the late 90s exactly because they not only played the game in the most anti-consumer way possible, but they very activelly lobbyied for the kind of legislation like the DMCA.
This is maybe one of the companies who spent the most money to make “the game” the incredibly rigged mess it is today.
Your naive “blame the game” reaction is exactly what companies like Sony want: blame the puppets not the puppeteers.
Ever since their Media Production Division took over the management of the company in the 90s (before it was mostly the Engineering side that led it, hence why they were once famous for the exceptional quality of their eletronics) they’ve very much been reliably acting in the most corrupting, abusive, evil ways possible.
luthis@lemmy.nz 11 months ago
Kinda slightly sensationalist title but yep…
We are having a good discussion about this in AskLemmy: lemmy.nz/post/3983363
“What is the legal difference between owning digital and physical media?”
As a side note, how are we going with instance agnostic post IDs? I can only post a link that uses my home instance, but obviously most of you won’t be on lemmy.nz and will have to do some fuckery to open that in your home instance if you want to be able to comment.
TheGreenGolem@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Fortunately Sync just redirects to a link on my home instance. I know I saw a GH issue on what you mentioned but I haven’t checked it in a couple of months.
luthis@lemmy.nz 11 months ago
Ah thanks, we’re still waiting.
Reminds me I should check in on the merged communities process. Federation at the community level instead of/also at the instance level would be awesome.
lemann@lemmy.one 11 months ago
As a side note, how are we going with instance agnostic post IDs
Tapping it works fine on my app, redirected to the post on my instance 👌 although I believe the situation is still pretty awkward for desktop frontends, they need to put the link into the Search box to open it on their instance AFAIK
dannym@lemmy.escapebigtech.info 11 months ago
There are two proposals (github.com/LemmyNet/lemmy/issues/2987), one for a syntax specific to comments which would make your link the following:
#3983363@lemmy.nz (it might already work in some frontends, but it most likely won’t yet)
and the second is using standard web technologies to register handlers for lemmy and then linking to posts like so (using my instance as an example):
navigator.registerProtocolHandler("web+lemmy", "https://lemmy.escapebigtech.info/search?q=%s", "Lemmy cross-instance link handler")
which would take you to the search page where your instance will show you the post on your own instance.
I personally think the best way is something in between, or rather implementing both
luthis@lemmy.nz 11 months ago
I prefer the simplicity of the first option but it’s good to see progress
poopkins@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Thank you for contributing to the discourse.
The majority of comments in this community are at the level of a 12-year-old, offering no insight whatsoever, with snarky remarks like, “doesn’t affect me, arr,” “just sail the high seas,” with even the title appending “piracy is justified.” That’s terrific for all those commenters, but I had hoped that the comment section here in a technology community on Lemmy would be more sophisticated than my high school class.
anarchy79@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Sony is one of the vilest corporations out there.
Fuckers literally installed rootkits on customers’ computers (across the board, you listen to a CD on your computer- bam) to police DRM.
Check “Sony Rootkit Scandal”, they got caught and were sued… yet here we are. Again.
kftX@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Just feel like I should at least add two more things here:
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Storing information do their customers as plaintext data, then getting hacked and losing all that information (infamous PSN hack);
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Releasing a portable console that cost between 250 and 300€, promising support for it then 2 years in, give up on it, never officially tell customers, but have one of your higher execs tell the press said console is a great “accessory” for the PS4.
This is why I don’t personally buy Sony hardware.
FangedWyvern42@lemmy.world 11 months ago
The Vita’s failure is really weird when you consider that they had already produced a successful portable system that had years of support, the PSP.
anarchy79@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I keep forgetting just how many scandals they’ve been involved with, and the serious negative influence they’ve had on how business is done with regards to digital as well as physical goods.
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krakenx@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Don’t forget: Selling the PS3 with Linux support so that they could pay taxes as if it was a PC as well as to justify the high price. Then removing Linux later through a mandatory update.
anarchy79@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Ooof, this one was new to me. My surprise level still hovers stably at 0%.
yetAnotherUser@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
Since we’re sharing YouTube videos around, I suggest this video by Jeff Geerling about how to legally own and stream media (Piped link)
flop_leash_973@lemmy.world 11 months ago
In the US, he is still breaking the law ripping discs. It is against the DMCA to circumvent the DRM on the discs. So he is really just pirating by a different means.
atrielienz@lemmy.world 11 months ago
“People’s store-bought DVD collections are always copy-protected or DRM-ed. In 2006, the U.S. Congress passed the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA), which made it illegal to circumvent DRM (Digital Rights Management) protection on DVDs. This means that it’s illegal to create a software program that can bypass DVD DRM protection. Another way of saying it is, the moment you crack DRM to rip the DVD, you’ve violated the DMCA.
However, the DMCA contains an exception for “fair use.” This means that you can legally rip a DVD for personal use, as long as you don’t violate any of the other copyright laws. What does this mean in practice? You can rip a DVD for your own personal use, but you can’t distribute the ripped file to others. You also can’t make a copy of the ripped file for someone else.
So, in a nutshell, if you rip DVD’s and restrict the copies to your own personal use, you’re probably safe.”
Zummy@lemmy.world 11 months ago
I’m not saying this isn’t wrong, because I believe it is, but the fact is that if you digitally own anything from video games to music to movies you should understand that it can be taken from you without a moment’s notice. Is it right? Hell no! Will it continue to happen? Hell yes!
ExLisper@linux.community 11 months ago
They should refund it though, no?
There are services where you pay per view/limited time access. If I pay for permanent access and unlimited viewings then I should be refunded when this changes.
If Sony can’t guarantee unlimited access they they should sell “one year”, “five year” or “whatever they can guarantee” access and charge accordingly. If they don’t refund it’s a classic bait and switch.
arc@lemm.ee 11 months ago
The problem here is people didn’t buy content. They’ve bought a license to view content and somewhere in the smallprint is Sony’s right to revoke the right whenever they like for whatever reason. Other services have done likewise, either withdrawing content or just failing altogether.
So first off, as a consumer stop buying DRM’d shit because it won’t end well under any circumstances. Second, lobby for digital property to have rights akin to physical property so the right to destroy, lend, sell, or donate it is inherent to a purchase. e.g. maybe a purchase gives you a token and a signed / watermarked file in a playable format. And incentivize providers to sell digital property by taxing services that impose DRM to create a favourable price disparity.
snaggen@programming.dev 11 months ago
No, what you describe is called “Rent” or “Lease”. People who press a “Buy” button and buy something, expect to own it. Words have a meaning, and trying to wiggle around this with fine print should be considered fraudulent.
EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world 11 months ago
No, he’s right. You are buying something, but what you’re missing is that you’re not buying the content itself. You’re buying the right to access the content for an indeterminate amount on time. You’re not renting in the same way that buying a movie ticket isn’t renting. The thing you’re buying is just inherently temporary, and that’s the problem.
arc@lemm.ee 11 months ago
People are buying something - a revocable license to view content through the service. Look at the T&Cs of any of these services and it’ll say as much within that wall of text.
Hence why I advocate for digital property, a token of ownership and rights that go with it.
smileyhead@discuss.tchncs.de 11 months ago
I remember when Apple was obligated to replace a text on app download button from “free” to “get”, because many apps are free of price to download but make money by in-app purchaces.
Maybe we could do something like that for streaming services.
calypsopub@lemmy.world 11 months ago
We really need to add textbooks into that. It’s absolutely a crime to charge hundreds of dollars for a book that cannot be resold.
arc@lemm.ee 11 months ago
IMO textbooks, at least in schools should just be given away in electronic form. I live in Ireland where parents have to buy physical copies from a retailer and it’s just stupid duplication of effort and a waste of money.
MrScottyTay@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
One thing I’ve not seen discussed, is this actually Sony’s fault or are they not behest to the companies that hold the content rights to do this?
I’ve not looked into it much beyond comments so I don’t have the answer myself.
sushibowl@feddit.nl 11 months ago
I don’t know if it makes any sense to assign blame here to another party than Sony. As a customer who bought a license to watch these shows, that’s the company that you have an arrangement with. It seems that their licensing arrangements with Warner Brothers were limited time, and either WB isn’t inclined to renew them or is asking more than Sony is willing to cough up.
Probably a combination of both if I had to guess. WB is seeking to maximise the value of their own ~HBO~ Max streaming platform, so they want the content to be exclusive and not license it out to others. At the same time Sony is probably not excited to keep spending cash every few years just to keep content available to customers, they’re not making any additional money from that.
So the end result is the current situation. Obviously customers agreed to whatever terms Sony put in their EULA at the time so I’m sure it’s legally covered and whatever, but it seems pretty scummy and misleading nonetheless. Like, if they were honest on the purchase screen and said “you can pay $20 for the right to watch this season of mythbusters, but any time we like we can take it away from you again and there’s nothing you can do,” how many people would have bought that? But effectively that is what people bought, they just weren’t aware.
Aux@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Yes, it’s Sony’s fault.
TechAnon@lemm.ee 11 months ago
Shout out to Streamio + realdebrid + torrentio! 🖤🏴☠️
tungah@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Yaaarrr, matey!
fne8w2ah@lemmy.world 11 months ago
That’s why streaming is the new cable TV.
arc@lemm.ee 11 months ago
I think streaming is fine - if a show is removed or the service dies you haven’t lost content because you never owned any in the first place and never expected to.
I really don’t know why anyone buys from the likes of Apple, Google, Amazon, Sony etc. People don’t own the content, they own a license which lasts as long as the service or the rights to the content and then it’s gone.
rustyriffs@lemmy.world 11 months ago
[deleted]dannym@lemmy.escapebigtech.info 11 months ago
Yep! I prefer not to use products by companies that hate me so I mostly avoid YouTube and other similar platforms.
AVincentInSpace@pawb.social 11 months ago
Interestingly this link was how I discovered that Odysee support in Grayjay is broken
RIP_Cheems@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Ok then, I’m gonna start stealing Spiderman 2 and sell it to people for, like, $20, and not take it back.
MisterFrog@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Can’t everyone just get a refund on everything they’re taking down?
atrielienz@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Not from Sony, but nobody has tried to get a refund from WB or whoever owns Discovery.
MisterFrog@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Why not from Sony, they are the retailer, at least under Australian Consumer Law they are responsible for providing a refund.
krakenx@lemmy.world 11 months ago
The credit card company might agree to a chargeback, but then Sony will ban you and block access to the rest of the content you bought.
atrielienz@lemmy.world 11 months ago
They can’t agree to do a charge back unless you bought it really recently (within 120 days of purchase), and then only if you can prove you didn’t receive the item in question which you did.
cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de 11 months ago
If the content is not stored locally and DRM free, then you don’t own it. Don’t pay for content that you can’t own. 🏴☠️
Guildo@feddit.de 11 months ago
Is there any platform or medium where I can buy locally stored and DRM-free software? Even if I buy a game on disc I am fucked, cause most games need updates. I can only name GOG.
luthis@lemmy.nz 11 months ago
Given the recent controversy, it calls into question the definition of the word ‘buy.’
GOG is the only one that I know of too.
PleasantAura@lemmy.one 11 months ago
itch.io is fantastic. Mostly indie stuff with some bigger name stuff, but it’s by far the best out there for devs.
nomecks@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Buy the disc, put it on a shelf and download a clean copy.
TAG@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Humble (the company that sells Bundles) has some games listed as DRM free games in their store. Never bought individual games from them, but I have gotten DRM free games in their bundles.
Also, fuck GOG. They are owned by CD Project Red, the piece of shit lawyers who trademarked the term cyberpunk.
echo64@lemmy.world 11 months ago
Most games don’t need updates
lloram239@feddit.de 11 months ago
Steam, but you’ll have to manually search around the forums to see which games does it and which doesn’t. It’s not exactly a well advertised feature, but integration of Steamworks copy protection is optional. But most of the games that are DRM-free on GOG are DRM-free on Steam too.
sbv@sh.itjust.works 11 months ago
I bought DRM-free TV episodes from Google Play (IIRC). Everything was great until codecs got updated a couple of years later and the videos were suddenly jerky to the point of unwatchability.
Even when I own it, there’s no guarantee I get to keep it.
psud@aussie.zone 11 months ago
You can probably play it properly on a PC using something like VLC (A pretty powerful video player)
Pxtl@lemmy.ca 11 months ago
Uh, that’s practically all software and games these days.
cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de 11 months ago
In this case Sony is taking away TV shows that people purchased. They can be purchased on physical media that will be playable as long as you have the disc. The DRM on DVD and Bluray discs can be easily removed to make backups that will play on anything forever.
As for games, everything on GOG is DRM free. They have downloads for the installers so you can keep a backup copy to install decades from now even if GOG is long gone by then.
lloram239@feddit.de 11 months ago
Have fun managing tens of TB of backups. I have given up on that quite a while ago, DRM-free is just not a practical for the amount of digital content you collect over the years. It’s a nice to have thing that comes in really handy sometimes (e.g. watching movies on unsupported device like VR headsets), but it’s not a solution for digital ownership. In some ways it’s actually worse, as you can’t practically sell DRM-free copies, as you don’t have a proof of ownership.
This needs a legislative solution or some NFT-like thing that gives you a certificate like “You own this, feel free to pirate if we go out of business”.