Submitted 1 year ago by Stamets@startrek.website to risa@startrek.website
Unrelated to Trek, one of my favorite Twitch streams was watching AOC play Among Us with Ilhan Omar, Canadian MP Jagmeet Singh, and a bunch of YouTubers like Jack Septiceye and ContraPoints. The way Omar would giggle every time she killed somebody was adorable.
Didn’t Omar take a couple of rounds as the imposter, too?
She was straight up excellent at the game.
Concerningly excellent, as someone who lives in Minnesota, lol.
Janeway leads with focus on her mission - to get her crew home
I don’t believe that AOC has seen more than about three episodes of Voyager. If she had seen at least three, the statistical likelihood that she would have seen one where Janeway yanks the crew into some conflict they have absolutely no business involving themselves in would approach 100%
yanks the crew into some conflict they have absolutely no business involving themselves
That’s all of Star Trek.
In fact, that’s almost all of most of the space drama series.
Also the family vacation series
That’s why I love Lost In Space and thought VOY would be more like it. It… wasn’t.
Well yes, but when Janeway does it, we mind. Because… reasons…
Poor statement of her mission. IIRC Janeway says pretty clearly in one of the first episodes that they’re still going to carry out their duty as a Starfleet ship to seek out new life and new civilizations, boldly go, etc. That’s their mission, and getting home is an important part but not all of it.
God fuck you Trekkies are insufferable.
I think Equinox was a really good story about what a starfleet crew looks like if they abandon their principles in order to get home.
Remember this cool stuff? Now it’s just a fascist site with RW morons trying to out-nazi each other.
By Trek’s logic, Tuvix’s identical copy lives in an alternative universe of some sort. And that’s really the only way to justify all this.
Surely they also have a copy of his pattern in the transporter buffer.
that pattern buffer is a plot hole big enough to show a Klingon Battle Cruiser a good time
Trek has no true multiverse in the modern sense of the concept. It’s more of a single-timeline with occasional aberrations. It has the occasional “alternate timeline”, but almost always uses the concept that those are temporary and collapse once the “real” timeline is restored - unless some important event or other metaphysical technobabble causes them to remain stable.
The only major examples of timelines that didn’t seem to vanish after the protagonists had left are the Mirror Universe and the Kelvin Timeline. There are little pocket loops here and there, but by and large it seems that there is One True Timeline that can be reshaped, but doesn’t branch endlessly.
I don’t even think that the Mirror Universe version of Tuvix could happen. The only reason that Voyager was stranded was Janeways insistence of not letting the Kazon control the Caretakers Array/Kill the Ocampans. In the Mirror Universe, would that even happen? Either Janeway takes everyone back or they use the Array to control that section of the Delta Quadrant.
I figured I’d throw my opinion in the mix. “Star Trek: Voyager” might have missed an opportunity to address the Tuvix dilemma by not considering a solution presented in “Star Trek: The Next Generation.” Specifically, given the transporter’s ability to duplicate individuals as seen in Second Chances" where the incident produced two Rikers. Captain Janeway could have potentially cloned Tuvix (with his knowledge and consent of course) and then reversed the merging process on one of them. This would allow both Tuvix and the separated Tuvok and Neelix to coexist.
That Riker example you’re using wasn’t something they could easily duplicate though. It was an accident involving too many variables for Voyager to re-create. But let’s say that they do manage to create two Tuvixs.
Which one do you kill? The new one? The old one? By what criteria? Both don’t want to die. You’ve cloned them, sure, but now you’re still sentencing a sentient being to death. The only thing you’ve done is make the decision twice as hard. Before it was just “Tuvix or Tuvok/Neelix?” Now it’s “Tuvix and Tuvix? Or Tuvix and Tuvok/Neelix? Or Tuvok/Neelix and Tuvix?”
Exactly, the transporter beam bounced back off the atmosphere and made a copy of Riker if I remember correctly. It was a unique trait of that particular planet.
The Riker example was just one of many wasn’t it? The “transporter clone” trope has been around since StarTrek: The Original Series when Captain Kirk was replicated by accident. As well as recent trek canon when Boimler was replicated on StarTrek: Lower Decks.
From an in-universe perspective, given the numerous transporter accidents throughout Starfleet’s history, it would seem logical that Starfleet would invest resources into understanding these anomalies to prevent unintended duplications or other mishaps. Transporter technology is complex and interacts with a myriad of environmental conditions, which might explain why these accidents, while rare in the context of all transport operations, still happen occasionally.
Voyager could have taken the next steps and introduced a new level of control over the technology by relying on Starfleet, had it thoroughly investigated and understood these incidents. I don’t see why they might not have developed protocols or technologies to recreate such anomalies intentionally. This could have provided Captain Janeway with an additional solution to the Tuvix dilemma.
Also as for which to kill, that would of course be up to Tuvix - which without his consent this would be moot. The logical one I suppose would be the original Tuvix only to lower the number of possible variables in the “separation.”
Thomas Riker was created through a complete freak accident involving a distortion field that reflected a transporter beam in the exact right way to duplicate Will Riker.
Now cloning and memory implantation are completely possible as well, like that one TNG episode where they make a clone of Kahless or that one very dumb ENT episode where there’s a clone of Trip. I’m not sure, but cloning is probably illegal by the time of Voyager, since genetic augmentation is completely illegal throughout the Federation.
But the main problem is that nothing other than killing Tuvix would have satiated Janeway’s bloodlust. For real, she’s like the most evil person in that entire show.
Also relevant: When Kate Mulgrew surprised everyone at an AOC campaign speech before she got elected.
That link isn’t working for me. Am I the only one?
see now that is what the social medias are actually good for
Who’s/What’s Tuvix?
Further to the link. Tuvix is a character in star trek voyager. There is a transporter accident that ends up welding 2 other characters (Lieutenant Tuvok, Neelix) into 1 individual. The episode is spent trying to resolve this issue.
By the end, Captain Janeway is given a solution. They can reverse the process and recover Tuvok and Neelix. Unfortunately this will destroy Tuvix. Tuvix, meanwhile has developed on his own. He doesn’t want to die and makes that clear. Janeway has the dilemma. She can do nothing, and let Tuvix live, or kill him to bring Tuvok and Neelix back.
Basically, it’s the trolley problem. Do nothing, and 2 people die, or kill 1 yourself, to save them.
What I don't get is why they didn't do some technofoolery with the transporters to make a copy of Tuvix and then just split that one. In a universe where there's two William Rikers there's gotta be a way to use transporters to clone.
Could you please resolve the question for people that did not watch star trek. What did she do?
Don’t know how I missed this one. Thanks for digging it up buddy. Amazing stuff. ♥️
The needs of the many...
The fact that it is still widely discussed even after so many years, proves is such a great episode with a great moral dilemma.
Whether they chose is the right choice or not, I can not say.
But from a story perspective, all I can say is that I didn’t really like the character of Tuvix, too whiney and weird. While Neelix may not be everyone’s favourite, Tuvok definitely was an excellent addition to the team. So for my enjoyment, they did make the right choice.
I love this conversation
Has anyone ever asked Tom Wright what he thinks about it?
There was a small voice inside of me that agrees with you but I also knew that if I had two loved ones that would disappear forever, I might have to make an unpleasant but necessary choice. It remains an interesting dilemma.
two loved ones
Eh, calling Neelix a “loved one” is a bit of a stretch.
Janeway is a blood-crazed necromancer who obviously lept at the opportunity to kill someone to bring two people back
Good thing they had an organ printer otherwise she’d be chopping people up for their kidneys
I’ve been watching Voyager for the first time and just got to the episode. I think I agree with the decision (as a lever-puller) but it does raise some interesting questions. As Janeway mentions, if they’d been able to do it immediately, she’d have done it without question, but after two weeks of Tuvix integrating with the crew it’s a more difficult question. If Tuvix had been around for say 5 years I think I’d disagree with separating him. I think the way I look at it is that the social bonds possessed by Tuvok and Neelix are more important than the mere two week old bonds of Tuvix, but if Tuvok and Neelix were long dead and their loved ones had already mourned them, while Tuvix had had more time to become a fixture in people’s lives, then the circumstances would be different. Tbh I disagree with the idea that Tuvok and Neelix get the biggest say - I think that the input of Kes and the rest of the crew is valuable, and Kes pleads to get Neelix back while none of the crew back Tuvix.
Does that mean the worth of lives is based on popularity? Not generally, but I do think that social connections are a relevant thing to consider. Part of what makes murder bad is not just the loss of the individual’s life, but also what it means for everyone else. If you could press a button to create a life then press another to end it, would you have made the world a worse place by doing so? I don’t think so. But if you press a button to create a life then go out and murder someone who already existed, then I think you have.
I’d also say that the captain’s responsibilities in her role as captain are relevant and also support the decision.
Are they talking about her appearance on the hbomberguy stream? I totally forgot about that
Doug@midwest.social 1 year ago
Little bothered that Tim Russ said “bias” instead of “biased”
TeaHands@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I’m not mad I’m just disappointment.
AceBonobo@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I’m not mad just disappoint
cam_i_am@lemmy.world 1 year ago
So I am confusion youtube.com/shorts/U7X7cEh5au8?si=hSmKh4IpfDwQqLk…
Opafi@feddit.de 1 year ago
I hope somebody replied with “hi bias, I’m dad”
usualsuspect191@lemmy.ca 1 year ago
No, you see he is the literal human embodiment of the concept of bias and was letting us know. The other tweets are unrelated
Infynis@midwest.social 1 year ago
It’s true, that’s why his role as Tuvok was so impressive. The exact opposite of type casting
The_Picard_Maneuver@startrek.website 1 year ago
This is a pet peeve of mine
ApathyTree@lemmy.dbzer0.com 1 year ago
A peeve of mine is the term “pet peeve”. 😅
If something bothers you so, why the fuck would you keep, nurture, and tend to it as a pet?
I propose it change to haunting peeve, because you don’t want it, can’t get rid of it, and it exists regardless if you think about it or not.
😁 (I’m not super serious about this, but “pet peeve” really does low-key bother me)
TerminalEncounter@hexbear.net 1 year ago
I’m a little bias short and stout, here is my handle here is my spout
RizzRustbolt@lemmy.world 1 year ago
They separated Tuvix on the bias and Tim got more of him.
RaoulDook@lemmy.world 1 year ago
I’ve noticed that grammar error a lot on the Internet. Bias is discussed frequently as a topic of popular rage-bait posts.
FYI for those people: “bias” is a noun that is the thing, and “biased” is an adjective that describes a person who has the bias. “The biased person showed their bias” for example.
Doug@midwest.social 1 year ago
It’s definitely one of the more common ones. I see that alot
JWBananas@startrek.website 1 year ago
If you understand someone well enough to correct them, you didn’t have to.
Doug@midwest.social 1 year ago
Just because you understand someone well enough to correct them doesn’t mean everyone else will
Just because you understand them well enough today doesn’t mean you will tomorrow
We should all be striving to be better than we are, not breeding resentment from contentment
mosiacmango@lemm.ee 1 year ago
Autocorrect ducks for us all.
merc@sh.itjust.works 1 year ago
Yeah, what’s the deal with that. Yes, the two sound similar, but saying “I’m bias” is like saying “I’m anger” instead of “I’m angry” or “I’m sadness” instead of “I’m sad”.
Doug@midwest.social 1 year ago
It’s like the “would of” people. They don’t hear it in speech so they type it how it sounds to them.
Or it’s autocorrect
CeruleanRuin@lemmings.world 1 year ago
For people over a certain age I always assume they’re using text to speech and don’t worry about going back and correcting it. My wife is somehow always talking to someone else in the room while she dictates to her watch, so I have a lot of fun interpreting her texts.
theodewere@kbin.social 1 year ago
only because it makes him look like he learned to read on tumblr
Doug@midwest.social 1 year ago
Or X(Twitter) or Reddit or Facebook or…
Tumblr is an offender but let’s not pretend it’s the only one