Tesla is exiting consumer space because Self-Driving has hit the same fundamental limits as LLMs

Submitted ⁨⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨violentfart@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨showerthoughts@lemmy.world⁩

Current language models (misnomered as “AI”) are great at some things but fail at any real thinking.

Self-Driving works decently in predictable environments but anything outside of those limits can make it literally crash and burn.

Public road transportation by individuals just has too many cases where real decision-making is required.

Despite all their resources, I think they’ve given up. All the brilliant engineers and scientists have given up, because they know what we’ve suspected for a long time.

source

Comments

Sort:hotnew top

bluefootedbooby@sopuli.xyz ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
It has hit the limits because moron Musk insists on Teslas using only camera, and not camera + radar and laser, like other successful self-driving cars do.

source
- db_null@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Ditching lidar was madness, at least if you care about safety. Musk might’ve had a few brain cells left at one point, but the nonstop dose of horse‑tranquilizer is clearly wearing him out. He and his pals love llms because they see themselves in those bots: great at spitting out slick word chains, but with zero real understanding of anything.
  
  source
- SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  
  not camera + radar and laser, like other successful self-driving cars do.
  
  camera + radar and laser …and guys in the Phillipines.
  
  source
- slowcakes@programming.dev ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  You don’t even need cameras, you need rails on the ground you know, car follows the rails. Also a driver maybe, if you have a driver it should work, you tell the driver where you want to go, they take you there.
  
  Otherwise, you also can try a global satellite mesh, connected to laser squirrels that can tell the satellites what to follow, then it tells you have how to drive. But you need at least a nuclear power plant to run your setup, 59 giga server farms that are on high pressure, high fule mode.
  
  source
- PumpkinSkink@lemmy.world ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Maybe, but the other guys with lidar are using 1.8 RDP’d in Filipino drivers (without US driving licenses) per car… so maybe its a pipe dream either way.
  
  source
Jax@sh.itjust.works ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Self driving cars has to be the most roundabout way to avoid railways that I can think of. It’s a stupid invention developed by car brained idiots whose efforts are totally outmatched by any modern train system in any developed country.

source
- MimicJar@lemmy.world ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  I mean we should absolutely build more railways and we should absolutely have more bus routes, but there are times when a car makes the most sense.
  
  Especially in more rural areas. If I want to visit my parents I can take a short walk to a bus or rail to a different bus or rail, but then I’m stuck. There isn’t and there will never be a bus or rail that goes anywhere near their home because it’s just too far in the middle of nowhere (and honestly it’s not really that far in the middle of nowhere).
  
  Not to mention that the US was designed for cars. Arguably that’s where a lot of these problems started, but you can’t just be Captain Hindsight and demand we rebuild absolutely everything.
  
  We should absolutely be investing and funding rails and buses much more than we are now. It’s embarrassing how far behind the US is.
  
  source
  - Trilogy3452@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Then there’s even less reason to invest in self driving right now of we’re aiming to keep cars quantities to a minimum
    
    source
wampus@lemmy.ca ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Eh, Musk’s pivoting a bit towards humanoid robots. Self-driving cars are sorta off the table, and Musk’s car brand in general is not doing well due to his political shenanigans and the tone of US international relations recently.

It’s much more beneficial to him and the ultra elite, to develop humanoid robots that can get deployed as a civilian pacification paramilitary force, anywhere in the world, supported by Starlink etc. With enough investment/production, a very small ultra wealthy elite can completely control the world in a very overt, unapologetic and totally unaccountable way.

Like if a paramilitary robot screws up and shoots some extra protestors, it prolly wouldn’t even make the news, which’d be controlled by similar billionaires with their own robot paramilitary forces. But a self driving car screws up and causes accidents, and you get all these poor people whining at you, with no recourse to just have your robots shoot them silent.

source
- AWistfulNihilist@lemmy.world ⁨11⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  If they’re depending on musk for this tho, they’re fucked. His stupid ass robots are vaporware.
  
  source
masterspace@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

Self-Driving works decently in predictable environments but anything outside of those limits can make it literally crash and burn.

Public road transportation by individuals just has too many cases where real decision-making is required.

Despite all their resources, I think they’ve given up. All the brilliant engineers and scientists have given up, because they know what we’ve suspected for a long time.

I mean, Waymo is still actively expanding to new cities and expanding its coverage areas within cities.

Tesla may have given up on the consumer market for that reason if they were banking on a super llm based self driving system, or it could just be because they got burned when Elon rallied consumers against them.

source
DJKJuicy@sh.itjust.works ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Yup. Self-driving cars will never truly be possible with unpredictable humans still driving the other cars on the road. Maybe if you could put a true AGI into a car.

We could have self-driving cars with today’s technology if the only other vehicles on the road were also self-driving and all interconnected bia a mesh network with each other and the other critical road infrastructure like intersections.

But if on today’s roads if you want a truly Level 5 self-driving car where you get in the car in your driveway and say “take me to Burger King”, you’ll need an AGI in the car.

source
- bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works ⁨14⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  A train is so much easier if you don’t want to drive. But billionaires don’t want trains.
  
  source
  - MBech@feddit.dk ⁨13⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    As much as I am a big fan, and user of public transportation, saying it’s just because billionaires don’t want trains is a bit disingenuous in my opinion. A car is simply much more convenient than public transportation. If I wanted to go to burger king from my house, right now, I could walk 5 minutes to the train station, jump on the train, take that for about 2 minutes to the next station, jump off and walk another 10 minutes to burger king. So like, 17-ish minutes. If I went there to get takeaway for both me and my wife her food would be cold before coming back, even if we live in a scenario where the trains match up perfectly as to avoid any waiting times at the station.
    
    Lets call it a roundtrip of 35 minutes just to get a burger. Again, assuming that the trains, because they are so incredibly wellfunded in this scenario, that I can step on a train pretty much any time I need, instead of the hour it is at the moment.
    
    If I were to take my car, the same distance would take me 5 minutes. So a roundtrip of 10 minutes.
    
    When I take the train to work, I need to bring my bike along because trains don’t stop in front of the factory. Time from set off to arrival is about 45 minutes. In my car I can get there in 15 minutes. That’s 60 minutes of wasted time per day.
    
    My point is, taking trains is not going to work for a whole lot of people, and brushing them and their needs off because of it isn’t going to solve anything.
    
    source
CADmonkey@lemmy.world ⁨18⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
I still remember redditors telling me with supreme confidence in 2015 that there would be self driving cars in five years, all truckers would be unemployed, and there would be no more traffic accidents.

I bet they don’t remember that though.

source
- HubertManne@piefed.social ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  heck I thought we would have self driving cars by 2015 at one point.
  
  source
- melfie@lemy.lol ⁨12⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Back then, I figured we’d have self-driving cars and boots on Mars by now. My perception of the world sure has changed a lot since then.
  
  source
- SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  They are looking down at you, laughing from Mars.
  
  source
  - CADmonkey@lemmy.world ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Hope they enjoy the oxide-filled soil and the lack of air.
    
    source
finallymadeanaccount@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Musk not going to Mars anymore. Musk exiting Tesla consumer space. Ha! Ha! Haaaa! The inevitable collapse of his entire house of cards has begun! Soon he will join the fent zombies he so despised, leaning in the street!

source
- super_user_do@feddit.it ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  He will never get poor
  
  source
cypherpunks@lemmy.ml ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
This post caused me to look up what changed: sadly they aren’t exiting the consumer space but rather are just ceasing to include lane-keeping in their basic package to instead require new customers who want it to pay a monthly subscription fee for what they amusingly call “Full Self Driving (Supervised)”.

source
Darkmoon_AU@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
You lost me at “misnomered as AI”. Artificial intelligence as a branch of computer science is a broad field covering not only LLMs; themselves are a sub-branch of deep learning but also fuzzy logic, Bayesian reasoning and other statistical methods. By any canonical definition LLMs very much are AI. Perhaps you meant AGI as in artificial general intelligence which equates to human level. Or perhaps you know this and we’re just being snarky about their current capabilities.

source
- scbasteve@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  They’re saying that people are now referring to AI as LLMs only.
  
  Misnomer: “an adjective used to describe a person, place, or thing that has been given an incorrect, inappropriate, or unsuitable name or designation”
  
  It’s like when you keep calling all squares rectangles. Yes it is technically correct, however, its an unsuitable name. Its misleading.
  
  source
  - keanu0396@sh.itjust.works ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    I would also add to this and highlight that the average person does not differentiate between AI and AGI - I’d bet most haven’t even heard of AGI
    
    source
daannii@lemmy.world ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
The only way self-driving vehicles can work is if roadways are designed for them.

Like how they can sometimes work as shuttle vehicles for airports parking lots and such if they have designated roads that only they use.

Human perception took literally billions of years to develop to interpret and interact with the world. And it requires the capacity to understand.

AI (probability prediction models) can’t do that. And they never will.

source
SinningStromgald@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Supposedly Musky is going to build robots instead of cars.

source
- reddig33@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Right after we colonize Mars. Any day now!
  
  source
  - Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    to be fair with ketamine, elons musks brain is already there.
    
    source
- MagnificentSteiner@lemmy.zip ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Onwards to the next grift!
  
  source
- Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  he build taxis that runs people over.
  
  source
- SaveTheTuaHawk@lemmy.ca ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  not supposed, he shut down two Teslur models and is tooling to make sexbots.
  
  source
- axh@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Next year!
  
  source
Lost_My_Mind@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Hold on, wait, whoa, really? The great and respectable Tesla has to exit the consumer space? What? No! Surely big brain genuis can find a solution! They can’t? Wow. I am sure each and every one of you will have wet sloppy pillows tonight, from all the crying! I am shocked! Shocked I say!!!

…actually, not that shocked.

source
- Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  elon is probably hopefully to leech of govt contracts ever.
  
  source
lung@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Tesla sunset two of their models, three still for sale and being built. Definitely not giving up on AI or FSD, they are doubling down on cybercab, and elons pay package is tied to FSD subscriptions. If anything, the messaging is they are ramping up AI investment. Humans crash and burn regularly too. Brilliant engineers have definitely not given up, I’m not sure why anyone would think that. AI has continued to improve pretty steadily in all areas (see benchmarks)

source
db2@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Elon won’t give up, he can’t fathom not being right about something.

source
- zeet@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Usually far right about something
  
  source
MehBlah@lemmy.world ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
They are exiting due to musk shooting his mouth off and not being to really compete with anyone.

He wants to build robots so he can end up taking cats with opposable thumbs to Mars.

Its a much more likely scenario than him getting there.

source