"Being vegan is unnatural"

Comments

• MrSelfDestruct25@fedinsfw.app ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Serious question, wouldn’t cows and chickens basically become extinct if we didn’t use them for food? Cows can’t reproduce on their own and chickens would be easily killed by wild animals.

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  • gigachad@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Most of the animals are bred sick just to maximize production. The answer to your question is self regulation - the amount of animals we are producing is absolutely unnatural. It is not like millions of chickens would populate the world if we wouldn’t exist. They are artificially fabricated in factories.

    Why should a cow bred for maximizing milk production should exist and what should they do, jump around in the fields? A normal cow from some decades ago could get older than 20, while they are nowadays bred to produce as much milk as possible and die within 5-6 years.

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    • Rekorse@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      They don’t die in 5-6 years, they stop producing milk in high quantities and are slaughtered and used as low quality beef.

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  • astraeus@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Well, would you rather go extinct or be born just to live a life of misery, forever

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  • mech@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    What’s your point behind this question?
    That vegans are actually the ones killing off cows and chickens?

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  • kilgore_trout@feddit.it ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    There are more chickens on Earth than humans. I understand your question is hypotetical, but it is more likely we humans are going extinct before chickens.

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    • JcbAzPx@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Not long before, though.

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  • snooggums@piefed.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Cows and chickens can reproduce on their own. For chickens to reproduce you just need a rooster around. For cows you just need a bull.

    The forced insemination is actively deciding which animal is bred with which other animal and when. It is a control thing with more reliability than just having them together in the same field and hoping it worked out. Without humans they would reproduce just fine.

    As a species they would likely struggle for a while as they adapted to not being protected from predators and being able to freely roam would result in some roaming places where there wasn’t enough food and water. Out of the millions of cattle there would be plenty of successes and they would live on and adapt.

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  • Grail@multiverse.soulism.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Cows can reproduce on their own, and here’s an article on feral chickens - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_chicken

    So no, neither animal needs humans for the survival of the species.

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  • THE_World_Wide_Web@lemmy.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I got predators all around me. Couldn’t keep guineas because of it. Most ducks don’t make it here either. But I have had plenty of chickens avoid predators and survive without my help. People dump their roosters here. And while they can’t typically fly, they can roost up in a tree at night for safety or hang out in a group and alert each other of danger.

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• HexesofVexes@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Vegan milks are nice to drink, but they are very very different to real milk. Having tea with oat milk is a sacrifice (almond and coconut are worse for tea - they lack the sweetness that counteracts the bitter elements of tea), it doesn’t taste as good but it’s ok. It’s a small sacrifice to make, but a persistent one (given that many of us rely on caffeine to function at work).

  There is a moral argument to be made, and the moral argument has the high ground if you avoid looking too carefully (nothing in life is simple).

  The real crux of the vegan argument is “can people also sacrifice this”, or is it one sacrifice too many in the world of compromises we endure. That’s a personal choice, and given the state of the world today, it isn’t one many will be able to make.

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  • mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    between you drinking tea without milk and mom losing her child for said milk your “sacrifice” seems kinda like just entitlement.

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    • HexesofVexes@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Straight to ad hominem - nothing of value to engage with here.

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  • happyfullfridge@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    That’s why veganism should be forced on people (just shutting down factory farms would drive up meat prices so much it might be enough)

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    • HexesofVexes@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Honestly, I’m in favour of this, but that worries me.

      In general, such actions will also raise the price of other goods as demand increase. You’d also need to keep non-meat prices low, and that’ll be expensive, meaning cuts elsewhere.

      Making the world vegan isn’t just about stopping the meat industry, that’s rather like pulling cogs from a machine and praying it still runs. It’s about designing a better machine that doesn’t need those cogs, sacrificing to build it, and making sure it really is better.

      For the vegan path that means sustainable agriculture (it isn’t at the moment), replicating tastes and caloric density (a key element of human culture), avoiding creating new issues (e.g. overuse of sugar, dietary issues with mycelial/nut sensitivity), and pushing food costs down.

      So, if you want the world to be vegan, drop your current life and start working on the above!

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    • mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      You WILL eat your veggies and you WILL be happy!

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  • AnimalsDream@slrpnk.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    In my experience sacrifice is a relative matter, and soon dissipates. Every abstained choice gets replaced with an alternative, and the alternatives that are explored the more it becomes apparent that there is an entire culinary world that has been ignored. It becomes apparent that what felt like sacrifice is in fact opportunity, and those opportunities are well worth investigating in full.

    If you keep exploring plant-based options you will be a lot more likely to find what works for you, than if you just give up.

    It should also be noted, dairy impairs the bioavailability of beneficial plant-based compounds. Here are a few studies. Milk and coffee. Milk and blueberries. And Milk and tea.

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    • HexesofVexes@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      That’s an interesting perspective - no promises but I’ll give it a go and audit the stats on those papers.

      If true, the price may be worth it.

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  • raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    As an up, coffee with oat milk tastes better than with cows milk :) ymmv obviously.

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    • HexesofVexes@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Very true but coffee has a very unfortunate effect on my innards so I’m locked out of that one!

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  • MrsVeggies@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Cows milk is gross. Give me soy all day every day. Better tasting, better for you, better for the environment, better for the animals.

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  • Arthur_Dent@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Talking about milk (why drinking milk from a different species? Would you drink milk from a dog? Or from a neighbours women? If not - why not?)

    … fun fact, lactose intolerant is actually the normal form. Approx 75% of all humans world-wide are lactose intolerant.

    The fact that people in “western world” can drink milk (and lactose) has been trained for some thousand years.

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• Cyrus@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  How on earth is this a shitpost?

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  • remon@ani.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Just smell the arm.

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  • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    do you not see the state of the entire thread?

    this shitpost overflowed into the entire vegan community.

    we made fun of vegans so hard they threw up all over the floor.

    where’s the mop?

    1000003112

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• Soulg@ani.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  What does any of that have to do with eating or not eating meat lol

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  • nutbutter@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Not much. This is mostly about animal milk production. Cows have to be pregnant in order to produce milk for their calves. But dairy farmers artificially inseminate (rape) cows and steal the milk meant for the calves.

    Male calves and cows who get old are sent to slaughter houses for meat, and other products like leather.

    So, it does have to do a little about eating and not eating meat, but it is mostly about animal milk.

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    • lalo@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      The same process is done to cows that will be slaughtered to meat, otherwise the farmers wouldn’t be able to selectively breed and would be risky to the cows (cows have a high risk of injury when getting mounted by a bull). Farmers find a bull with the desired fenotype, buy his semen and impregnate the cows in the same manner you see pictured by OP.

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    • MrsVeggies@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Milk is a side hustle for the meat industry.

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  • HereIAm@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Vegans don’t drink milk either. And sticking one’s hand up a cow bum is a fast way to identify and treat several health related things. Artificial insemination just makes it easier for the farmers I guess.

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    • Thedogdrinkscoffee@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I’m no bovine biologist or veterinarian. I was confused as to why artificial insemination would be done with a fist and forearm up the ass.

      Curse my search history, but now I know.

      vice.com/…/my-dad-gets-shoulder-deep-in-cow-ass/

      Like all journeys of enlightenment, initial answers only raise more and deeper concerns. Why aren’t they wearing scrubs? Why aren’t they wearing to-the-shoulder medical gloves. Why are they smiling? Why do 30% of the cows smile and groan with pleasure.

      I have a more profound understanding now - of the addage “Ignorance is bliss”.

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• StayDoomed@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  ITT being morally superior punching down on vegans complaining that they act morally superior and punch down. All done under a photo of someone elbow deep in cow.

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  • mathemachristian@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I don’t think you know what punching down means

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    • StayDoomed@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I dont think most people on this thread do. Who here is of higher rank or social status or superior? I dont think anyone does, they just want to grandstand in the comments.

      Seems the person that posted who is vegan thinks they are. Seems the people making all sorts of comments are also defending themselves or think they are superior.

      It’s always been funny to watch this. Who gives a fuck what you eat and why, its a personal choice not a morally superior quasi-religious issue.

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    • HertzDentalBar@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      In this case the people in th photo are punching down, it’s how they feel if the cows pregnant 🤷‍♀️

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• selokichtli@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  My take in the veganism I’ve come to know personally is that vegans think they put themselves in the place of animals, but what I see is they put the animals in their own place. In this case, they think that consent should be placed in the animal realm because they believe it for themselves.

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  • Bullerfar@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    This is actually well put. To be honest, I only eat less meat (never really eat red meat unless it is served on special ocations) primarily because of the environment (meat production is far the biggest cause of poluted lands and forrest decrease on earth.) and health. Much meat and in those amounts, isn’t good for your overall health throughout a whole lifetime.

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    • bitjunkie@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      We get wrapped up in our abstract thought about animals so much that sometimes we forget that we are them.

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  • raspberriesareyummy@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I can’t make much sense of your statement. I am flexitarian with a strong leaning towards vegetarian (meat is a rare exception) and a convenient leaning towards veganism (I love cheese, sowwy). But the reason I avoid animal products is because if I can enjoy good food without animals being hurt, then I will prefer that to eating animal products, for which animals get hurt. That’s a very easy decision and doesn’t involve nor require consent of any kind.

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    • selokichtli@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      It’s fine if you don’t make much sense of it. It surely wasn’t easy to put in words, so maybe I screwed it up. I’m a person who happens to eat a similar diet than yours. And yeah, I’d prefer food with minimal suffering of animals, if I get to choose. I frequently don’t get to choose, reality does that to many of us.

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• JuliaSuraez@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Discussions like this usually get heated fast. At the end of the day, people make food choices for different ethical, cultural, and practical reasons — it’s probably more productive to talk about systems and standards than attack each other.

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• the_crotch@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Vegans certainly talk about masturbating and forcibly imprgnating animals more than anyone else

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  • Bytemeister@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Wait until they hear about different plant cultivars are created…

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• UltraGiGaGigantic@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Make vegan food free if you care about animals so much.

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  • MrsVeggies@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Would if I could

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• Sam_Bass@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Anything outside of omnivorousness is inhuman. We are made to consume multiple types of flora and fauna in our quests for survival. Focusing on a single facet of that is to deny your humanity

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  • xxd@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Anything outside of living in a cave by the fire is inhuman. We are made to live in a cave with our tribe in our quest for survival. Focusing on modern architecture is to deny your humanity. /s

    Your point would maybe make sense if we were obligate carnivores, but we are not. Humans don’t have to eat everything, they just can eat everything. And just cause you can doesn’t automatically mean you should.

    If you follow the endurance running hypothesis, being able to run long distances was also something we were made for in our quest for survival. Therefore, according to your logic, not endurance running yourself would be to deny your humanity, correct?

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    • Sam_Bass@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yep

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  • Grail@multiverse.soulism.net ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Hello, otherkin here! I’m not human and I don’t want to be human. I used to think I was human and My mental health was much worse back then. If forcibly transitioning all humans to another species were a requirement to end their domination of animals, I would support it. Fortunately, I know many vegan humans who are perfectly happy.

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  • Cantaloupe@lemmy.fedioasis.cc ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Imagine actually living like that.

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• Goatboy@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I don’t care anymore. If yall think animals are people then yall can be animals.

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  • lalo@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    2 steps ahead of you, I’ve been a mammal since I was born.

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    • Goatboy@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      This is funny to you because you’re a sociopath. You do not belong with functional people.

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    • JackbyDev@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Imagine being born as a marsupial. Couldn’t be me. I’m a mammal. I am definitely not a Virgina Opossum.

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• MithranArkanere@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  If vegans really cared about these things more than keeping the moral high ground, they’d be focusing on practical solutions like making lab-grown meat and plant-based substitutes so tasty and affordable that corporations are the ones that start pushing for them, so they can’t stop spending on costly cattle.

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  • Fedizen@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Vegans are just voicing their truth. This “practical solutions” nonsense is just moving goal posts.

    Vegan diets are perfectly sustainable for most people and eating large amounts of terrestrial mammals (as opposed to fish and bugs) is maybe a historically newer phenomena than we’d like to think, especially on a culture by culture basis (japan for instance has mostly subsisted on vegetables and seafood, as have most coastal cities historically)

    The idea people have to beef every day or whatever is partly a product of the beef industry.

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  • Mailloche@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I mean, I workout 8 or 10 times a week, super fit, 50 years old, haven’t had meat in 30 years. I can understand “it tastes good and I’m not willing to stop”, but this find alternatives stuff makes no sense.

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  • Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    We already have perfectly fine meat substitutes. Have you actually tried them? They’ve come a long way.

    And lab grown meat will probably never be able to replace meat if people keep eating it at the same rate. Besides, there’s nothing I, as an individual, can do to advance the progress lab grown meat. I can help advance the progress of meat substitutes by… buying them instead of meat.

    Cutting meat out of my life saves the lives of countless animals. That is a lot more practical than wishing upon a star that lab grown meat was more developed or economically viable.

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  • vathecka@lemmy.radio ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Meat substitutes are more expensive than meat because of corruption. Meat is subsidized to hell and back.

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  • JamBandFan1996@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Pretty sure they’re working on that. Lab meat is supposed to be economically viable within 10 years

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• Johanno@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Well you can see cows as animals and as such living beings with rights (legally they don’t have those), or you can see them as objects used for food production.

  And if there’s money involved you are using the objects to make money.

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• harambe69@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Colon cancer, motherfuckers!

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• EndlessNightmare@reddthat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  FFA = fist fuckers of America

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• minorkeys@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Society had to implement bestiality laws because vegans loved animals a little too much.

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• HertzDentalBar@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Mr.Vegan you realize that cows don’t have a cloaca right?

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• DioramaOfShit@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Why is this the top post for like the last week?

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• GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I cannot see me needing to post about this any more, I need to get back to deleting my E-Mails to get under GMail’s size limits.

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• hector@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  That is true, ranchers have opposed bestiality laws and made sure they didn’t pass or had major changes, because they love jerking off cows into containers. For real, like they don’t even use like a machine they go in there with their hands and do it, not weird at all, why are you guys making it weird?

  Pretty gross, but bull semen from one they want to use as stock for their herds is worth more than gold. But how many of the bulls are worth that much? It can’t be that much, and I imagine just about any bull could knock up them heiffers, as had always been done before for tens of thousands of years.

  They are overthinking it, just let the cows fuck, then you don’t have to jack off any cows. How much extra are you making getting the super fast growing cow to impregnate your heiffer? Not all that much I bet.

  The USDA I think it was has been in on some rather unthinkably horrible experiences increasing the number of calves/piglets on cows and or pigs that have resulted in all of these horrible births gone awry, but they are still at it, trying to do too many to make an extra buck instead of just accepting a few each time as standard.

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• Goatboy@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  This thread brought me from thinking vegans were dumb but harmless to actively despising you. Good job.

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• DylanMc6@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Can we (vegetarian/vegan or NOT) agree that centrism should be stopped in all forms?

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• HugeNerd@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I don’t think that’s the right hole for that, weirdo.

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• GreatWhite_Shark_EarthAndBeingsRightsPerson@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Okay, now I really have to go walk the dogs I care for on neighborhood Ave., way overdue, luckily still cool enough to do so & get to the boring, but required task of deleting E-Mails to get back under GMail’s storage limits.

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