Submitted 1 day ago by Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world to nostupidquestions@lemmy.world
I hear people say things like “if Obama (or anyone left of Republicans) did what Trump did, there would be hell to pay.”
Why isn’t that argument taken more seriously by people on the left as an implicit admission that the left is politically weaker or less effective at wielding power?
If one side “can’t get away with” actions that the other can, doesn’t that suggest a real imbalance rather than moral superiority?
When people say that, they aren’t implying the left are are morally superior. They’re implying the right has double standards. That the right is only interested in holding politicians on the left accountable, while giving politicians on the right free pass to do whatever.
It’s obviously true, and it’s a problem for the left, but it’s a problem of the right.
Nah, holding politicans responsible is a strength not a weakness.
Well they barely do that either when in power, I think that’s why I see people talking about the “ratchet effect” so much this year.
they just go after low hanging and inconsequential fruit… like Al Franken.
It’s seen as a problem for everyone.
If someone wins a sports tournament, and we later discover they had cheated, we don’t ask the other competitors why they weren’t smart enough or strong enough to cheat.
I don’t think people who aren’t cheating get to compete at that level so they wouldn’t get the chance to ask. They don’t get the opportunity
This tells me that you are assuming everyone is cheating, and thus cheating is not only excusable, but necessary.
I disagree. Most people are not cheaters, and more cheating does not create fairness, just more assholes.
I interpret that sentiment completely differently from how you seem to. “Democrats would never get away with this” to me is not a statement about the Republican Party’s ability to wield power more effectively than Democrats, rather it is a statement about how Democratic Politicians and their constituents would never allow their leaders to behave the way Republican leaders do. Respect and belief in the core principles of American democracy, rather than a willingness to use technicalities and loopholes to win at any cost, is required and expected of Democrats by democrats in a way that is is not expected of or by Republicans.
I read it more that Democrats couldn’t push boundaries because conservative media is much stronger at pushing talking points, and would jump on a democratic Senate removing the filibuster even more than they did with Obama’s tan suit. Fox is powerful enough to influence other news media and the many centrist voters.
the left as an implicit admission that the left is politically weaker
That’s not my conclusion from all this. Presidents like Biden and Obama cared about the law somewhat and tried to play by the book, which only seems like their hands were tied when they weren’t. The same goes for other politicians who do get away with a lot of shit. The difference is that Trump likes to make a spectacle out of it.
As a leftist I can assure you, yes the left is significantly weaker, and there is a deep imbalance.
The left, specifically in America, has suffered gravely over the past century. The Red Scare era made it functionally illegal to be a leftist. Many leftists were fired, some were killed, and leftist thought was purged from our education system.
The following Cold War era pumped our populace full of anti-socialist propaganda. The majority of people over 50 believe socialism is just as bad as fascism, and that socialists are the enemy.
The American left has yet to recover from these deep wounds.
That sums it up perfectly. Even the Dems can’t bring themselves to support socialists.
That’s because Dems are capitalists and always have been. Even when they had the support of powerful unions it was only the class collaborationist unions, never radical unions. The Dems were social democrats when there was a strong socialist movement that threatened capital interests, making it necessary for the capital owners to co-opt and redirect it. FDR implemented his reforms in the interest of preserving capitalism, not for the benefit of the working class. He saved the ruling elites from their own hubris, and they hated him for it.
The Left is weaker. Period.
Ronald Reagan went after the unions and the GOP never stopped. The Unions used to do a lot of the groundwork for the Dems; things like getting petitions signed and monitoring voting. The Churches do that job for the GOP because ‘Right To Life.’
The Right has a fantastic ground game in US politics. They drive old folks to the polls on election day, put signs on lawns and in store windows, and send dozens of letters to any media outlet.
Another thing the Left does badly is break up into tiny splinter groups instead of uniting. In one town you’ll have one group pushing for bike lanes, and another angry about the schools, and a third with another agenda.
Yes, the left has no coherent vision.
And the funny thing is when they find someone to rally around, like Obama. They act like it’s some miracle of his personality or something. No, Obama just had a coherent policy and message that people could get behind, including the white-working class.
I think if you look at specific examples you’ll learn more. Who is getting away with what?
Follow-up question: why do Americans think there’s an active mainstream political “left” in the US, and how is it related to the Democrats?
We’ve been told for generations that the Democrats are “left”, so many people have accepted it as truth. Repetition is powerful, especially when it’s been going on since before you were born, and your parents and grandparents believe it, too.
Not enough of us realize that Democrats aren’t “left”; they’re just not as obviously, painfully “right” as Republicans.
I hate our two-party system.
Define left.
If it’s ‘not republican’ than the Democrats are it. If it’s ‘socialist values’ than no, that’s considered fringe politics.
Left politics generally supports
social change, equality, and greater government intervention in the economy to help the marginalized, often favoring progress over tradition, and is associated with values like social justice, workers’ rights, and expanded public services.
I hope that helps.
Why isn’t that argument taken more seriously by people on the left as an implicit admission that the left is politically weaker or less effective at wielding power?
Because the Left doesn’t get to wield any power and the right wing Dems care more about not upsetting their owner donors and their friends than insignificant details like justice and the needs and wants of their constituents.
If one side “can’t get away with” actions that the other can, doesn’t that suggest a real imbalance rather than moral superiority?
It’s both and also a secret third thing:
Republicans are MUCH more brazen and shameless, MUCH more skilled at messaging, AND the right wing Dems in power would rather still get paid the big bucks than do their job, see above.
So like you want President Gavin Newsom to order the Justice department to charge Tucker Carlson with mortgage fraud?
Corruption and abuse of power actually get worse if it’s “both sides”. Don’t you think?
What if it already was both sides already ? 🤷
The last strong left wing politician America had was Huey Long, he was assassinated.
In America, anyone who is left wing, actually willing to do what is necessary to effect change, and who gets vaguely close to power, either has their reputation assassinated or is assassinated more literally.
That’s a name that you barely hear anymore outside of YouTube.
Only psychopaths think doing the right thing makes you weaker.
It’s just a platitude.
The left would 100% get away with any and all of this.
It’s a performative statement, neither Democrats nor Republicans will even be held accountable for their actions by their peers. The oligarchy will never charge one of their own
It means that one side is has gained an ability that is extremely dangerous for the society. It is a real imbalance, but the solution must be to raise awareness of the danger.
Americans presidents an get away from everything no matter which party they represent
Tell that to Clinton. Couldn’t even get away with a handjob.
What do you expect them to do? Something? Lulz. They’re democrats!
yes, but the left is more interested in infighting and sabotaging itself than building any political unity or coherence like Trump has done with the republicans. They don’t care they are a ‘joke’ because they mostly care that their seats are secure. Imcumbancy is the major issue why Democrats have become so weak, and anyone with new ideas or any political drive is often seen as a threat to the ‘keep my job at all costs’ who make up the majority of democrats.
Democrats used to do things, but that was in the 1980s and 1990s. Remember Bill Clinton, even had a republican house and managed to get shit done. No?
Clinton had a massive tech boom. That’s pretty much the only reason he survived.
It suggests an imbalance in media.
falseWhite@lemmy.world 1 day ago
The issue is not the left being weaker, the issue is with the right being corrupt as fuck and never prosecuting their own, even when they commit war crimes or rape kids. Whereas the left, at least pretends to care when someone from the party does some crazy shit and they do prosecute their own.
4grams@awful.systems 20 hours ago
Oh come on now, the dems give everyone other side a pass. Look at Al Franken, what he did was way worse than anything in the Epstein files and got off scott free.
Er, wait…that is what happened, right?