Submitted 1 day ago by simple@piefed.social to games@lemmy.world
It’s confirmed: the next xbox will be a Windows PC box. It sounds very interesting that this will also be backwards compatible with Xbox games, including 360/One/Series games. I wonder if it’s just emulation, and how well that will work
Boasting about not putting multiplayer behind a paywall, like they weren’t the ones to introduce that idea in the first place.
Back when Xbox Live first hit the scene, that ~$4/month definitely got you a better experience than you got for free. Now that’s not the case.
Yeah. People very much forget how horrible most online multiplayer infrastructure was back in the early 2000s. Voice chat was a case where you used teamspeak/ventrillo for atrocious quality audio that optimally depended on using an actual phone line in conjunction or it just never worked. Messaging was basically xfire or AIM. And servers were generally listen servers that someone in your clan left running in the background when they forgot about it.
Live provided a messaging system people would actually use and tapped into MS infrastructure for voice chat that actually worked… which was great for playing with your friends and learning all new slurs when you had it on in a pub. Game servers themselves were still generally all listen servers but that changed over time.
These days? Discord has a LOT of problems but it actually works and is a much more universal platform. Server hosting infrastructure is such that there isn’t really a point in paying the platform for it. And EVERYTHING needs to be social media for people to not whinge so having a messaging system loses its value.
But also… have any of the consoles really pushed the online infrastructure as why you pay for premium? Okay, Nintendo have but they REALLY shouldn’t considering what they are offering. It is all about the IGC and has been since Sony got involved as part of the PSN hack.
Well, it got you a better experience than whatever it was Sony were doing at the time, which was a weird ethernet adapter, and seemingly every game reinventing the idea of how online should work.
I don’t think it ever needed to be charged for, it just needed to be designed.
I hope it inspires Sony to follow suit. In the 2020s paying for multiplayer access is absurd.
These days? I dont mind it. With the offering of the 3 games a month, it’s been fine. As someone who’s gotten old and barely plays anything, it’s nice only spending the yearly subscription and getting up to 36 games a year. Sure, not all are great, but there have been plenty of big games offered that let me play the big stuff I missed and probably still wouldn’t pay $20-$30 for.
That’s funny. It’s basically Valve’s Steam Machine strategy
The catch is, you will need Copilot and to sync everything via OneDrive.
And when you quicksave in games, you’ll nees to wait 5 minutes for OneDrive to connect to Windows servers to sync up the save before you can continue playing
Wow, 5 years ago that would have totally sold me
Yeah, if the Xbox Series S/X could have played my Steam library at that price, I’d have bought one in a heartbeat just to use as a gaming box.
But they’ve already hinted that the next one will be a lot more expensive, and at that point you might as well just buy a PC…
Yeah I have the gaming rig combined with home theater setup the xbone promised and it can be done without giving Microsoft the right to spy on me (though i will concede they make a damn good controller and I appreciate that they’re still AA operated so I can just swap out my rechargeables and keep gaming). Steam and VLC and a decent gaming rig has just been a good value for a long time
I’m done buying Microsoft products they can fucking rotten hell fuck them. I’ll emulate games till I die, fuck these greedy cunts.
no multiplayer paywall Until Microsoft changes the deal Or you have to scan your retinas to verify watching an ad before you queue for a round of Halo CE Re-Campaign remake HD remaster Master Chief Cortana Limited Edition
Please drink the verification can
Nope. They’ve just implemented verification cans instead.
So Steam but for Microsoft games only…
And if they do it like the windows store currently does there’s no way to modify local files so also bye bye mods
The ability to miss games has been there for years, you could go to the game in the Xbox app and open the modifiable app data folder. The problem with this is that, developers can choose not to expose that capability on a per game basis.
Still there’s ways aroused it at least but it certainly not as straightforward.
the full power of Windows PC gaming
It’s even better without the Windows.
Something tells me that part of Microsoft’s public focus here is distraction from the fact that they are losing grip on two separate markets.
It’s not that. As far as the stock market is concerned Microsoft has succeeded and plateaued. There is no where else for them to grow in the first world.
So they are not giving up on consoles. No, this marketing campaign wasn’t for us, not by a long shot. They’re going to Africa, to South America, Asia, they’re trying to lower the bar for entry so they are the first ones in everyone’s minds over there.
Don’t have an Xbox? Here’s a handheld. Can’t afford that? Game streaming from the cloud. This is infinite growth capitalism and there simply aren’t enough people to sustain that, so they need more people.
Indeed, the Xbox Ally and Xbox Ally X, with its Xbox Full Screen Experience, is essentially what the next Xbox will look like. It’s not dissimilar to the SteamOS interface and Big Picture Mode, which allows you to exit out into full Linux at will.
A big difference here, and something that it sounds like the FSE did not nail, is that SteamOS doesn’t just boot into Big Picture Mode; it intercepts how popups and game windows are drawn to the screen so that you never lose focus of the game window. It doesn’t force you to get out a keyboard or use the touch screen to enter a login password or PIN. It’s got those important considerations for the ways a game machine differs from any other personal computer. Microsoft, with all its wealth and the code base of Windows in its control, can make those same changes, but maybe they didn’t plan for it in their code base that now surely goes back almost 30 years at this point. Best of luck to those engineers.
New technology Microsoft is developing, alongside the “fixed” nature of the hardware, should eliminate a lot of the inconveniences that sometimes come with PC gaming. Things like compiling shaders, etc, shouldn’t be an issue on the new Xbox, for example.
I don’t know if it’s actually new technology, but what Valve does for the Steam Deck is to either handle this server side or to have people with a Steam Deck essentially upload their completed shaders back to the server to be distributed to everyone else’s Steam Deck, sort of like BitTorrent. This is what I expect Microsoft will do.
Right now, I’m told the current plan is for the next Xbox specifically to have no paywall for multiplayer.
It’s insane that they’ve kept that paywall for so long when it would be the easiest way to make their console more enticing than PlayStation, before they did this pivot of theirs. If the goal was Game Pass anyway, make online free and make that library on Game Pass attractive. The reason online is free on PC is because your store purchases are supporting the infrastructure that someone like Valve provides, and we crossed the threshold on consoles where digital purchases are the majority some time ago.
Where the Xbox Ally is disadvantaged, at least for Xbox console users, is the lack of the Xbox console library. There are more Xbox Play Anywhere (dual-license PC and console Xbox games) than ever, but most AAA publishers aren’t on board with this ecosystem just yet. Increasingly, though, it’ll become the default ecosystem for publishers, particularly if they want to support a PC gaming universe where they get 88% of the revenue rather than 70%.
This is a delusional paragraph in the wake of the Epic Games Store.
Things like compiling shaders, etc, shouldn’t be an issue on the new Xbox, for example.
From what I remember that’s exactly what MS is doing as well, xbox would let you download pre-compiled shaders for the ROG handheld. Though I don’t think you upload any of your own shaders since the xbox hardware is unified as opposed to steam having to support everybody on Linux
As far as I know, this same advantage isn’t granted to anything other than Steam Deck. On desktop, you often have a Vulkan shader step before the game boots that I rarely see on Deck. I could be wrong though.
it intercepts how popups and game windows are drawn to the screen so that you never lose focus of the game window
Huh? That is kind of just how window managers work. The game launches so it is on top. It may or may not be exclusive fullscreen these days. The game spawns up another window as part of a social media thing or because you typed /wiki jennah’s feet and then that is on top until you close it. That is, mostly, OS agnostic these days.
It doesn’t force you to get out a keyboard or use the touch screen to enter a login password or PIN
Big Picture 100% makes you do that if there is a text input. You can choose to use your controller to navigate the keyboard and… that is a love it or hate it. From a quick google, the asus equivalent (as of 2 years ago) is that you can switch your input to desktop mode to use the joysticks as a mouse. And while that is a step down from automagically “just working”… the fact that I know that it is steam+square kinda sums up just how automagic it is with Big Picture.
My understanding, heavily tainted by Dan Ryckert’s stupidity, is that the big problem the xbox decks have is the OS login window. Yes, Microsoft need to get off their fucking asses and make that work consistently. But Valve mostly bypasses that by having a shitty pin login. That is a “I left my SteamOS laptop on my bed and someone from a dorm down the hallway stole all my money” story away from being a debacle.
Background processes can spawn pop-ups, update reminders, notifications, etc. If you listen to Dan and Bakalar’s chat on the Bombcast, even with Bakalar on the proper FSE like he’s supposed to be, you’ll hear examples of the controller inputs just not working the way they’re supposed to, often because something else spawned on top of it. You can hear the same in this GameSpot review of the Xbox Ally X from Tamoor Hussain. And I can tell you from experience, this happens on desktop Linux distros on handhelds as well.
ambitious
no multiplayer paywall
lol, fuck off. Better late than never, but this shit turned me away from consoles a long, long time ago.
No multiplayer paywall, but they’ll probably try to charge you some sort of subscription anyway that’ll end up costing more in the long run.
Steam has existed for how long?
It’s old enough to buy alcohol.
I hope that once my account turns 18 they will stop asking my for by DOB to look at mature content.
It's starting to get annoying waiting for Valve to announce a Steam Machine and having to listen to Microsoft's future Xbox-as-a-PC plans instead.
Just get a Steam Deck, and add a hub and wireless controller.
Oh, but it won’t run full-detail AAA releases at 4K? Nothing cheap will. That is exclusively the domain of consoles, earned through direct-contact optimization with developers. That’s still enough horsepower for the thousands of great indie games on Steam, many of which are simple enough to run fine on a midsize TV on the small Deck CPU.
Basically, if someone is adamant about running high-detail games on their TV using Steam, they’re already a niche enough market that it really doesn’t make sense to build up a single SKU for them and hope for bulk manufacturing savings the same way you could for consoles.
It’s probably better off for developers to keep targeting the Deck as a general metric point anyway. The especially good news there is, once devs do that, Linux desktop gamers benefit anyway.
All signs are that we are getting the new VR headset first.
And it is probably in Valve’s best interest to let other people drive the HTPC consoles. They are not going to be cheap since “1024 at 40 FPS” doesn’t scale all that well to a 50 inch 4k display. So let other integrators deal with that. Just release the steam controller 2 already.
And I’ll say that you can get a really nice AMD NUC HTPC for under 500 bucks that can handle “steam deck games” on a TV. And I THINK I have a way to get Display Port -> HDMI 2.1 that I need to sit down and test.
All signs are that we are getting the new VR headset first.
Yeah :(
And it is probably in Valve's best interest to let other people drive the HTPC consoles. They are not going to be cheap since "1024 at 40 FPS" doesn't scale all that well to a 50 inch 4k display. So let other integrators deal with that. Just release the steam controller 2 already.
I'm not sure this is a good idea, personally. The original Steam Machines and the ROG Xbox Ally are pretty good indicators that it's not very smart to rely on OEMs to drive major change in the PC market.
The current gen consoles are basically already just standard AMD x86-64 PCs that just happen to be running locked down proprietary OSes. So it really seems like low hanging fruit to me for Valve to just put out a price-competitive Steam Machine "console" akin to the Steam Deck that boots into SteamOS and otherwise is a normal PC that with a normal UEFI bootloader. That seems both technically easier and cheaper to do than putting out yet another prohibitively expensive VR/AR device.
As a fan of Linux and FOSS, my main concern is that Valve misses a big window of opportunity by failing to capitalize on the current weakness of Xbox and Windows during this awkward transition period from traditional consoles to PCs.
When Valve put out the original Steam Machines, people didn't understand why they would want a computer in their living room that didn't run Windows. But now the Steam Deck has shown people that Valve can deliver a console-like PC gaming experience that gives people the best of both worlds. SteamOS has a compatibility disadvantage, but a huge UX advantage. They've finally sold people on the concept that Windows is not the alpha and omega of PC gaming. But I think Microsoft understands that too, and the only reason that they're doing what they're doing today is because they clearly see SteamOS as a huge threat in the living room.
But as the saying goes, you gotta "strike while the iron is hot".
So if Valve sits back and allows Windows to continue to catch up to SteamOS in terms of gaming UX, then I think it's very possible that Microsoft could sell a lot of Windows-Xboxes, killing a lot of the interest in Steam Machines.
And I'll say that you can get a really nice AMD NUC HTPC for under 500 bucks that can handle "steam deck games" on a TV. And I THINK I have a way to get Display Port -> HDMI 2.1 that I need to sit down and test.
True, I can build my own Steam Machine by just throwing Bazzite on just about anything that's reasonably capable. I've been tempted, I'm just waiting to see what Valve has up their sleeve.
But it's not me that I'm worried about. Mass appeal comes from a company like Valve or Microsoft putting out a dedicated gaming box for a decent price that comes preinstalled with a gaming OS. I just hope it's Valve and Linux, and not Microsoft and Windows...
Full bore windows? I’m out.
Needs Xbox Bazzite Edition
If this releases with full support for existing Xbox libraries as suggested, this would be the absolute perfect device for my household, where we’ve accrued literally hundreds of Xbox games since 2001, and would love to open up to PC games from a device in the living room. For me, it’s the best of both. That said, it’s still dependent on avoiding exorbitant pricing.
I’ve used a 360 emulator and I think there’s a xbone emulator but definitely not series. Perhaps they have their own in-house one. I think they’ve basically been using PC hardware forever though, and the Xbox OS is basically stripped down windows so this doesn’t seem like a huge jump. As I recall PlayStation OS is basically BSD, too, which is both sweet and not for various reasons. Exclusives are dead anyway and consoles often get sold at a loss to move games, I’d argue that all consoles should just be PCs.
Since 2013, both Sony and Microsoft have been using custom variants of AMD’s consumer chips for CPU and GPU. These consoles are basically just laptop boards with some custom architecture, but at this stage most of the “Console” design is some software level features and a consistent baseline hardware spec to shoot for.
Sony still does seem to put mor effort into the hardware portion, but Xbox hardware has been little more than an SFF PC for a couple generations now
Having a first party emulator for older Xbox systems would actually be huge. Even the best Xbox emulator, Xemu, still has issues with some titles. With full access to the original source code, they should be able to produce something better than what is available on other platforms.
TemplaerDude@sh.itjust.works 1 hour ago
I’d rather have a console that doesn’t run windows.