4chan fined $26K for refusing to assess risks under UK Online Safety Act

Comments

• cmnybo@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  The UK should just block sites that don’t comply. They have no business trying to fine US websites.

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  • richardwallass@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    People should fight for their rights and free speech and make pressure on the gouvernement. Blocking is isolationism.

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  • 9tr6gyp3@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Then 4chan shouldn’t do business in the UK by selling 4chan passes there.

    4chan should just block UK IPs.

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    • LoreSoong@startrek.website ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Not you again… genuinely convinced this user is a bot. He made this same argument a month ago on a now deleted post almost verbatim. I disputed his claims with evidence and they continuously moved the goalpost through the entire argument. either braindead or just software please ignore.

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    • Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Why should that be their problem?

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    • GreenKnight23@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Imagine for a moment that 4chan is a business that sells alcoholic beverages in the US. Now imagine the UK has instituted prohibition and banned the consumption of alcohol.

      now, some enterprising individuals have taken it upon themselves to buy, smuggle, and then sell those beverages inside the UK.

      Clearly, the government has intended to ban the consumption of alcohol, not the sale of it.

      Now the UK government is trying to shackle hefty fines against an American company for having the “audacity” of selling a product to an individual within the confines of the US.

      again, the UK banned the consumption of alcohol, not the sale of. 4Chan isn’t forcing UK citizens to drink the alcohol. They are simply selling the product, within their country of origin, to individuals who want to purchase it.

      now, do you still think the UK government has a right to fine 4chan or do you think maybe the UK government should elaborate on their prohibition regulations to ensure their citizens are properly “protected”?

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    • zecg@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Noooo the britbong threads

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  • dreadbeef@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Extort, you mean

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    • lumen@feddit.nl ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      What? No it doesn’t, not as long as the people responsible don’t step foot in the UK.

      If they do - yes they’ll be arrested for having broken UK law.

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  • then_three_more@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    It’s a process. They need to issue the fine first to give them a chance to pay rather than jumping to blocking it. If they continue to refuse to pay that’s where it’ll go.

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  • RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    It’s an interesting idea that countries could only fine websites that operate in said country. Could get away with a lot by finding a permissive country to do what would otherwise be illegal and worth of fines.

    Selling user’s private information illegally? Buddy, Tuvalo don’t care

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    • troed@fedia.io ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      That's ... how it works.

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  • magic_internet_wizard@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    The uk is irrelevant anyways. They will not be missed when they strengthen the Great Firewall rules

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    • KSPAtlas@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      people exist here though :(

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• pHr34kY@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Imagine running a website for 20 years, changing absolutely nothing, and one day you’re being tageted because someone else on the other side of the planet changed something at their end.

  Tell them to piss off.

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  • CallateCoyote@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    “Block us in your country then. We’re not paying your fines and you’ll never arrest us as we’ll never step foot in your country. Get fucked.” That’s about the response I’d have I think.

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    • anarchyrabbit@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Ok I wish I did not search for tubgirl now

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• nucleative@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  This is a case of stupid laws that still don’t understand the internet.

  If an http GET request initiated from country A traverses routers and wires around the globe to grab some data from a server in country B, then we have to accept that the owners of the server are not “operating in country A” and in fact the user in country A is responsible for import.

  If some laws in country A have a problem with this, then they should unplug their internet wires at the border, or at least learn how to use them and/or govern their citizens.

  All that is tongue in cheek to say they can fuck right off.

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  • echodot@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Yeah it’s a stupid law and they were told it wouldn’t work by industry experts. But the politicians that were in power when all this was first been decided were Conservatives and therefore arrogant and of the opinion that if they don’t like something, it’s realities responsibility to reconfigure itself.

    Then Labour got in and for some reason implemented the stupid law anyway despite having heard none of the consultations, and of course now it turns out that the consultations told them not to do it. Now I’m sure the industry experts would have been ignored anyway but Labour look really daft now.

    They have basically accepted that this law is on workable and is basically going to be ignored by everyone but they still have to go through all of the pantomime of trying to enforce it. I’m sure eventually they’ll quietly kill it because the whole thing has been such an embarrassment for them.

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    • Aceticon@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      I think it’s well established by now that this bunch of Labour politicians too are “arrogant and of the opinion that if they don’t like something, it’s realities responsibility to reconfigure itself”.

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    • SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      were Conservatives and therefore arrogant and of the opinion that if they don’t like something, it’s realities responsibility to reconfigure itself.

      Which is exactly what they have done with tariffs in the US.

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    • 0x0@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yeah it’s a stupid law and they were told it wouldn’t work by industry experts.

      You mean lobbyists?

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  • General_Effort@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    If some laws in country A have a problem with this, then they should unplug their internet wires at the border, or at least learn how to use them and/or govern their citizens.

    What used to be called The Great Firewall of China. It used to be unthinkable for western countries.

    You can’t blame this on old people. This is only happening now that the Boomers are on the way out. People who sent international letters or made international phone calls were aware that they were communicating with a different country with different laws. I think we are seeing this now, because now we have people who experience the internet as something happening on their own phone, at their location.

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    • ayyy@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      The boomers are not on their way out. We have the exact same politicians in power that we had 30 fucking years ago.

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    • gandalf_der_12te@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Funnily enough the CIA (yes, the CIA) was largely involved in keeping the internet a free and open space for all, heck they even contributed encryption algorithms to keep data private and such …

      The reason why the free internet existed for so long was because it was a big ideological project for the US. (the internet is the space of all ideas and as such represents the platonic/christian concept of heaven). It’s only now ending because it’s served its purpose. The people have exchanged ideas worldwide, and that only needs to happen twice, similarly to how you can only infect yourself with the same virus once (because the second infection does way less impact), you can only infect yourself with the same idea once. So, once the worldwide ideas are exchanged, the internet serves very little purpose anymore.

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  • Flax_vert@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Blocking america as a whole would do the uk some good tbh

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  • StopSpazzing@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Also why the fuck would you piss off 4chan with their years of stalking, ddosing, swatting, etc of successful campaigns against anything they felt wrongged or even just annoyed them.

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    • BurgerBaron@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      They were defanged many years ago by the new owners and raiding is banned.

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    • echodot@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Because these people have never even heard of it. The whole party is a bunch of absolute technophobes. You should see that online advertising it’s pathetic.

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  • Routhinator@startrek.website ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Great analogy.

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  • skisnow@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    If 4chan make revenue by advertising UK goods and services to UK users, then they are very much operating in the UK. It’s not reasonable to make the argument that you should be able to do business with a country and opt out of its laws simply by running the physical servers abroad. We don’t tolerate it for wire fraud or CSAM, but nobody’s rushing out to defend the sovereign rights of child abusers and scammers.

    I don’t agree with the Online Safety Act on its own terms, but this is a dud of an argument.

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    • AwesomeLowlander@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      With wire fraud and csam, the activity is illegal in the host country as well as the target country, which is not the case here.

      If 4chan make revenue by advertising UK goods and services to UK users, then they are very much operating in the UK.

      By your logic, any website with advertising is operating in EVERY country worldwide.

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• PrettyFlyForAFatGuy@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  British company fines an American company, based in America, for serving data from American servers that was compliant with American law.

  This whole law is complete overreach

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  • ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I think Iran should fine the UK just as much for allowing the Satanic verses to be sold since that novel are banned in Iran.

    Any argument they give is the same argument why the 4chan shit is laughable.

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    • tal@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      You probably don’t want Iran to have jurisdiction over your dot-com.

      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capital_punishment_in_Iran

      Capital punishment is a legal penalty in Iran.[2] The list of crimes punishable by death includes murder; rape; child molestation; homosexuality; drug trafficking; armed robbery; kidnapping; terrorism; burglary; incest; fornication; adultery; sodomy; sexual misconduct; prostitution;[3][4] plotting to overthrow the Islamic government; political dissidence; sabotage; arson; rebellion; apostasy; blasphemy; extortion; counterfeiting; smuggling; recidivist consumption of alcohol; producing or preparing food, drink, cosmetics, or sanitary items that lead to death when consumed or used; producing and publishing pornography; using pornographic materials to solicit sex; capital perjury; recidivist theft; certain military offences (e. g., cowardice, assisting the enemy); “waging war against God”; “spreading corruption on Earth”; espionage; and treason.[5][6] Iran carried out at least 977 executions in 2015, at least 567 executions in 2016,[7] and at least 507 executions in 2017.[8] In 2018 there were at least 249 executions, at least 273 in 2019, at least 246 in 2020, at least 290 in 2021, at least 553 in 2022, at least 834 in 2023,[9] and at least 901 executions in 2024.[10] In 2023, Iran was responsible for 74% of all recorded executions in the world, with the UN confirming that at least 40 people were executed in one week in 2024.

      Frankly, 4chan would probably have violated some of those Iranian laws.

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  • General_Effort@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Salman Rushdie: First time?

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  • BigMike@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Yeah, how come the EU gets to regulate American services with all their data privacy laws? The EU is a tool of the governments to assert control over us, the common people. Plain and simple

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    • Natanael@infosec.pub ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Ofcom, famously a part of EU since brexit

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    • ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      The UK hasn’t been part of the EU for a long ass time. Have you been living under a rock?

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    • madjo@feddit.nl ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      The UK had a Brexit just so they could leave the EU.

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    • ChairmanMeow@programming.dev ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Ignoring that the UK isn’t part of the EU, the EUs privacy laws extend to all European citizens, and it has treaties with most of the world (including the US) allowing it to enforce those.

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  • BurgerBaron@piefed.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Pretty sure 4chan is Japanese. Currently owned by Hiroyuki Nishimura, who also owns 2channel. He acquired 4chan from Christopher Poole 2015. Good Smile Company is a major investor but he’s still in charge.

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    • nagaram@startrek.website ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Its probably a parent company situation.

      Lots of corpo structures are just large parent companies that actually just own a bunch of smaller companies so that the parent company gets the profits while the smaller companies make the risky products and can be bankrupted at any minute.

      The company I work for does that. We just bought a couple companies that were competitors in a risky but profitable market. The full idea is that if one company gets sued to oblivion, we let that company die, move all the employees and customers to the backup company, and call it a day.

      Capitalism baby!

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  • DarkAri@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Neocons were never that bright.

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• nevemsenki@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  If you’re ok with this then imagine your local lemmy instance getting fined by China/Qatar/Thailand/etc for posting something breaking their laws.

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  • SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Fine the phone company for allowing calls they don’t like.

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    • BananaIsABerry@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Fuck yes, fine the phone companies who allow these spoofed phone number scammers to reach me. (/s… Mostly)

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    • muusemuuse@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      More likely than dining then for calls I don’t want to get they they facilitate by selling my data. Linda of like the scale car warrantee mail you get because the DMV sold your data.

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  • RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Flipside is EU trying to enforce GDPR and such

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    • echodot@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      GDPR can only be enforced if the business wants to continue to do business in Europe. There are lots of non-European businesses that do not enforce GDPR rules but they can’t sell products or services in Europe.

      But of course 4chan doesn’t sell any products or services anywhere, it’s not a business, so it’s a bit hard to see exactly how this could be enforced.

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    • MajorasTerribleFate@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Gross Domestic… Projekt Red?

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  • TheJesusaurus@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    If they operate in China then it seems legit. If they don’t operate in China it’s a non issue.

    This might be stupid, but the corollary of your statement is that a sovereign nation can’t impose laws on foreign business…

    That what you want?

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    • nevemsenki@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Unironically yes. Otherwise the internet as we know it is very much over, and what we have instead is a mesh of country-nets.

      I mean, what is actually “doing business” when it comes a simple web page or a forum for example? Merely existing and being reachable.

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    • mr_satan@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Yes. You can impose as much laws as you can enforce them. Don’t want your citizens to buy anything from me, stop shipments at your border. Want to stop payments, talk to your banks. Want to stop access to my servers, block them at your routers.

      Why the fuck should I enforce your rules for you? You made them, you figure out how you will make them work.

      you being the UK government, in this case.

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    • pogmommy@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      My server is in the corned of my bedroom. How the hell can I be operating in China, Saudi Arabia, Russia, Brazil, Norway, or The UK if my bedroom is in none of those countries?

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    • TheJesusaurus@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      Why would a local Lemmy instance ever pay a fine to China?

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• tal@lemmy.today ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  4chan also faces potential arrest and/or “imprisonment for a term of up to two years,” the lawsuit said.

  You don’t want to be locked in a small cell with 4chan for two years.

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  • pastermil@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    “I’m not stuck here with you. You’re stuck here with me!”

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  • Sabata11792@ani.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    You don’t want to be locked in a small cell with 4chan for two years.

    Not again.

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• ImgurRefugee114@reddthat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  They’ll never control the hacker known as 4chan

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  • FauxLiving@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I think 4chan is a pretty cool guy. Eh gets fined by the UK and doesn’t afraid of anything.

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• nuxi@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  4chan’s actual legal response to this can be summarized as “We are incorporated in Delaware which has not been subject to UK law since 1783. See the Treaty of Paris”.

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• Kolanaki@pawb.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  4chan also faces potential arrest and/or “imprisonment for a term of up to two years,” the lawsuit said.

  I wanna see how a whole website would be sent to jail.

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  • biggeoff@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Clearly they’re after the notorious hacker known as 4chan

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    • ChaoticEntropy@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

      All 4 of them face charges.

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  • sleen@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I see you never downloaded a car before.

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  • Cybersteel@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    They could go after the owner. I believe he lives in Japan, all the UK has to do is send an extradition request to the Japanese government, bing bang boom all done.

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• sturmblast@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  This censorship shit is out of control.

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  • ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Damn fucking straight. I hope it starts an privacy movement so big they realize that all the laws passed since 2000 against terrorism were abject failures and repeal all of them.

    Canada is trying to pass major surveillance shit on par with the patriot act on steroids and effectively nullify the need for warrants, all in the name of ‘strong borders’ and anti terrorism even though it literally gives many US owned and operated companies full and complete access to digital information on Canadians, ironically weakening borders in every way.

    And for what? What is the terrorism threat? Al-Qaeda was a always a joke, and the fact that 9/11 happened was far more due to a monumental failure of all intelligence services combined and not due to a lack of resources. Terrorist schemes have been thwarted in the past without the need for extensive surveillance… and most plots are still thwarted primarily by informants and insiders speaking to authorities. The whole 'we need to be super proactive ’ has yielded shit results.

    Most of the stuff that they claim was 'prevented proactively ’ was literally entrapment. They found some mentally ill and/or lonely people who would have done nothing on their own, but ended up being goaded into stupid crap when undercover agents flirted with them, encouraged them, and even offered weapons and explosives for them to use, and if they agreed… well, that’s when they nabbed them. No terrorism would have occurred if agents didn’t do shit.

    Have you ever wondered why so many people are highly distrustful of people talking about doing violent shit? Fed posting? Its because agents have such a long ass history of doing that that you cannot tell who is and who isn’t a Fed.

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• Antagnostic@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  4chan’s inevitable response.

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  • pineapplelover@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    I have never seen this. It is on my list now

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  • deczzz@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    Gone

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• Ultraword@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  The global push for censorship is accelerating and not nearly enough people are woke to it.

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• Gemini24601@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Is it even possible for Ofcom to legally fine 4chan for these issues? How does a company in the UK fine a US company?

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  • WALLACE@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

    It works the same way they can fine domestic businesses: Pay up or we’ll stop you from doing any more business in this country.

    In the context of a website like 4chan that means pay the fine or get blocked by every UK based ISP.

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• SocialMediaRefugee@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  4chan is likely using this to take it to the courts.

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• Rooty@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Will the notorious hacker known as 4chan finally get his comeuppance?

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• MrSulu@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  So then… Potential arrest and imprisonment for 4chan for no proven damage. Meanwhile, Trump can visit the King.

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• BilboBargains@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Offcom has been drinking, came home in a blackout and committed domestic abuse of 4chan. Does Offcom even internet? Alternative plot twist, Offcom is trolling 4chan.

  I wanna say that Offcom is doing a good job and trying to protect British people in good faith but I feel like they are being used as a cudgel by the British ruling class to advance an anachronistic agenda. Don’t forget, they fired their expert drugs advisor for telling them that MDMA is comparable to horse riding in terms of safety. They want certain things to be true, regardless of the scientific accuracy.

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• pastermil@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  And they think 4chan ever complied with anything. How adorable!

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• nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  4chan can be the first website blocked by the great firewalls of British cooking. potatoes and boiled cocks. not bad if im honest

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• ArmchairAce1944@discuss.online ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  They have no way of making them pay.

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• Balldowern@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Should Ofcom be labelled as a terrorist organisation ?

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• nutsack@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  they don’t have that kind of money they can’t pay that shit are you nuts

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• ABetterTomorrow@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  Million is spelled with a M

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• yetAnotherUser@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  I wonder if Ofcom’s true goal is banning 4chan from the UK and if this is a just required part of the legal process for a ban…

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• Bronzebeard@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

  4chan makes that much money?!?

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