Submitted 3 weeks ago by return2ozma@lemmy.world to technology@lemmy.world
https://www.nytimes.com/2025/08/10/technology/coding-ai-jobs-students.html
Paywall removed archive.is/kBbnO
Hey so just to be clear: a 200k comp package nowadays is the equivalent of about 81k in 1990.
Put another way: I am doing a good bit worse than my dad was at his age, despite being a pretty solid and experienced software engineer, with an EECS degree, and a lot of devops and system design experience.
I think it’s the same in all developed nations; constantly needing more skills to achieve the same standard of living. I think a lot of it is from nearly all resources getting more expensive to extract (oil, wood, iron, etc) due to us having already extracted all the low-hanging-fruit, and needing to move on to more resource-intensive methods like offshore-drilling, fracking, importing lumber long distances from harsher climates. The other drivers are the attacks on labor and executives/shareholders taking more profits for themselves instead of paying their workers more.
Your last point is where I’m putting most of the blame. We’re all doing worse because a few people at the top always, ALWAYS have to do better than last year.
Eternal growth is physically impossible. At some point, shit will have to stagnate, and if shit starts to stagnate, but the top still insists on eternal growth, they’ll have to take some from the bottom. That’s what’s happening right now. The top can no longer keep making more money off of an industry in development, so instead they’ll cut costs, costs being you, the worker, and hope they die before it all collapses under them.
I lived in Denmark for a few years, and no, it isn’t the same in all developed nations.
Were people getting paid $81k in 1990? This site shows that 95th percentile in 1990 was $58k, and doesn’t have more granular data than that above the 95th percentile. So someone making $81k was definitely a 5 percenter, maybe even a 2 percenter.
That site is talking about averages, assembly across the board. The person you’re talking to is explicitly talking about CS jobs, like software developer or system engineer.
You can’t really compare the two.
This data to me didn’t show much in the way of by-field statistics. If we’re comparing software development pay at the naîssance of the field to today, it should be complicated to do so. I’d expect to look at top 5% at the very least because of how new and niche computing and coding in general was in the 90s.
There never was a social contract, there never was anyone bound to look after your interest. That is why unions are the answer.
Unions are part of the social contract, its very simple. Those that have aren’t too harsh on those who have less, or we drag them into the street and tear them limb from limb like wild animals. We’re simply working through the various stages between complaints and dismemberment.
$165,000 tech jobs are still out there. Usually they require at least 10 years experience, or a masters in mathematics or data science.
Try a $48-64k job and get some experience.
Try renting an apartment in Silicon Valley with a $48k/year paycheck in your pocket.
The starting salaries justified the crazy cost-of-living in a city that wanted $5000/mo for 800 sqft. Now the question becomes how you afford to get the experience in a job that pays below the regional cost of living.
Most tech jobs are outside Silicon Valley. But I see your point, they need to pay cost of living. Its still technical work
Counter offer: Rent an apartment in Bumfuck, Flyover and work for a tech company.
It’s the only way I’ve been able to afford a house.
I need a big truck in case I need to haul wood from Home Depot once or twice a year, because that’s worst case scenario. It needs to be an EV with 1000 mile range, because that’s worst case scenario. And I need to make enough to live in Silicon Valley, because that’s worst case scenario.
800 is fucking huge tho. Big city folk can easily fitinto 300 if living alone.
Try a $48-64k job and get some experience.
Boomer out of touch take.
Damn. That’d be crazy if anyone was actually hiring anybody with no experience.
I know multiple group chats of people who graduated fresh from college, not even 20% of them have jobs a year after grad. And this is spread across comp sci, cybersecurity, and mech eng.
The entry level job is dead. Every company thinks they can replace the menial shit that entry level workers do to learn with AI slop.
counterpoint: I work in tech for a Fortune 500 and we still have interns and still hire intern classes and kids right out of college.
We are working with AI but we aren’t stupid, we still need people.
Not in Silicon Valley.
What sucks is that was the starting wage when I got into the tech industry back in the early ‘00s
Yup. Entry level wages have stagnated while food and housing prices have skyrocketed.
It’s weird that so many replies are attacking you when you are factually right. The industry has always been this way. And some kid with a GED and 3 years of CompSci from their community college is not going to land them a 165k dream job right after graduation.
I think some people have been living in a fantasy world or believed every headline they saw.
Probably not the hottest of markets right now (not just because of Trump and company) and I was in a similar boat when I graduated. My first job was Best Buy (not Geek Squad unfortunately) then tech support then a reporting analyst. Took probably 4 years for me to get into a job where coding was the main aspect.
That being said, I feel bad for any new graduate except for maybe lawyers.
On top of this, the AI jobs are paying some flat-out ridiculous rates.
Like, millions of dollars up-front in signing bonuses kind of ridiculous
Wait what? Who is making $165k out of college?
I don’t even make $165k after working for… I don’t know let’s say 12 or 15 I can’t keep track what counts anymore
Some big tech companies pay that, theoretically, in total compensation for entry level. These companies make about $1 million per employee.
My first tech job out of college was $55k.
Average in my area for new grads at best is like $85k.
My highest paying was $195k as a Senior and my average is probably $150k as a Senior / Lead.
None of this was big tech though.
Yeah I made $51k out of college.
My first software job I made $68k? Granted Im at $150k after all that time, but still. Dang yo you know?
Yeah, I’m more-or-less the same. Outside of Silicon Valley, Seattle, and a few other big metros, tech pay is good, but not amazing. I know what I’d have to do to get $200k+, but I’m unwilling to (crazy hours, move to SF, etc).
I don’t make quite that after 8 years of doing this stuff. That being said, I dropped out of college twice. Maybe $100k of debt is what I need to close that $25k difference lol
Who is making $165k out of college?
Computer science and engineering grads at the top of their class at top schools who choose not to go to grad school. This thread claims to cite Department of Education data to show median salaries 3 years after graduation, and some of them are higher than $165k. Sure, that’s 3 years out, but it’s also median, so one would expect 75th or 90th percentile number to be higher.
Anecdotally, I know people from Stanford/MIT who did get their first jobs in the Bay Area for more than $150k more than 10 years ago, so it was definitely possible.
But this NYT article has stories about graduates from Purdue, Oregon State, and Georgetown which are good schools but also generally weren’t the schools producing many graduates landing in those $150k jobs as that very top tier. I would assume the kids graduating from Cal Tech, MIT, Stanford, and UC Berkeley are still doing well. But the middle is getting left behind.
Big tech in HCOL areas (Seattle, all of Cali, etc.) pay new grads about 100k to 150k base, with a hefty sign on bonus (anywhere from 20k to 50k). RSUs usually only vest about 5 to 10% of their total stock in the first year, but thats about 5k to 10k
Of course HCOL means this money is relatively less than it seems, but still a lot for new grads.
I never came even close with 25 years under my belt.
My mother won’t answer me what her salary was when she retired. Easily in the industry for 30-40 years, but I know it was under $200k. Granted she was an electrical engineer before getting her masters in computer science, but I also suspect it has to do with the fact that she and I didn’t work for the big tech giants.
And I have no interest in doing so.
The industry went to shit after non-nerdy people found out there could be a lot of money in tech. Used to be full of other people like me and I really liked it. Now it’s full of people who are equally as enthused about it as they would be to become lawyers or doctors.
My brother in law got fucked by this. Smart kid and beloved by his boss, company folded and now works at a fucking dominos.
Oof
I remember this same article decades ago during the late 90’s and early 2000’s.
Those offers for new grads were always insane and never going to last. That was entirely a sign of the zero interest rate bubble during covid.
How about $165k guillotine operators?
So, life of a humanities major like my wife. Actually, most majors that weren’t STEM.
If it helps anyone in this situation, you can try to bank on other skills. My wife is doing great now but got her start because of her bilingualism, and even that was only 35k a year. My sister did a little better with her music degree by pivoting to community manager, although in her case she had experience modding for a well known streamer. That was pretty good money right out the gate.
Point is, programming isn’t your everything, even if you’re leveraging something from your personal life.
I’m glad I’m retired out of that intense craziness (tax coding in COBOL for DOS version and for some reason Delphi for Windows). Crunch times get old after a while.
This is a good thing.
Fuck these kids getting overpaid remote jobs destroying the economy of poor countries like mine.
What?
Probably referring to expat remote workers creating more competition in lower-income countries?
Third world problems but it’s true.
individuals buying/renting for themselves don’t destroy any housing market
scalping companies buying hundreds of houses and apartments in a city do
Maybe not in US cities. But I’m not talking about the US, I’m not even talking about cities. More like towns with heavily distorted markets thanks to expat parasites.
Maybe they can go the easy route to big riches (haha) as social influencers. Though not as many make bank as they’d like
Technically a good burrito though.
Eh.
it’s really not. technically or otherwise.
Did she have a portfolio that went beyond school work? Coders are like artists you need a portfolio showing you can do shit without being told to.
Hard disagree. Every company across the spectrum I’ve worked for couldn’t care less about a portfolio.
Did she have a portfolio that went beyond school work? Coders are like artists you need a portfolio showing you can do shit without being told to.
As a developer who has hired dozens of developers, you definitely don’t. It makes no difference.
Maybe they oughta unionize. Lol.
SnotFlickerman@lemmy.blahaj.zone 3 weeks ago
Guess maybe coders needed a fucking union after all, who would have guessed that the “rockstar” programmer gravy train wouldn’t last forever.
mesamunefire@piefed.social 3 weeks ago
My union got me a raise. And I have a pension of all things. Crazy. In 2025!
Unions are great.
avidamoeba@lemmy.ca 3 weeks ago
In software?