If your happiness is derived from your enjoyment of a false (i.e. fictional) stories, is that truely happiness, or is that technically a delusion?

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Submitted ⁨⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works⁩ to ⁨nostupidquestions@lemmy.world⁩

e.g. Video games, Movies, TV, Anime, etc…

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daniskarma@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Does fake happiness even exist?

If you are happy you are happy.

It would be different to discuss if it would be long term sustainable.

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Apepollo11@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Happiness is literally the result of chemical reactions in the brain. If you’re feeling happy, it’s real.

You’re running into problems because you’re conflating the feeling of happiness with the things that make you feel happy.

There’s no such thing as “true happiness” or “false happiness”.

The things that make people happy rarely have objective value, and everything with some kind of cost, even if it’s just time.

The happiness drug users feel is real, but the cost (money/time/health) can be significant. The happiness that you feel from playing games or reading is real, and the cost (money/time) is less, but still there.

Happiness is always real - just be mindful of the cost!

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DarkDarkHouse@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
It’s not even technically a delusion. You can be aware that something is fiction and still enjoy it.

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- sanguinepar@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Agreed - that’s why many people love, say, the Mona Lisa, or Starry Night.
  
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Godnroc@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Can you learn truths from fiction? Can you feel sad at a happy memory? Can you long for a person who wronged you? Can a good point he made by a bad person? Why does the source matter?

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Melobol@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Happiness is weird and different for each culture. If you have time I do recommend this Ted talk about the science of happiness.

If you feel happy while reading or fishing in a creek or risking your life free climbing - those things are all valid. Tho the last one in my mind isn’t really sane and 100% healthy mind.

The only thing is not acceptable is when some twisted people get joy from others suffering. But technically speaking their happiness is real - even if they are not fit to be part of society.

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zeropointone@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Allow me a question about your premise: If there is such a thing as true happiness, what is false happiness then?

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- DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Usually people regard using drugs as false happiness. Or like having a parasocial relationship with a famous person.
  
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  - zeropointone@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    You can either steal a premade chocolate cake or you can bake one yourself. Neither turns the chocolate cake into a true or false one. It’s still only a chocolate cake.
    
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  - Eq0@literature.cafe ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    I think the concept of “false happiness” is given by the ends result of such behavior. Doing fruits gives you a high, but also addiction, so in the long run it’s bad for you. Having a fake relationship does not allow you to develop a real one, thus being a negative over time. True happiness is something that should make you happy in the moment and in the long run.
    
    For this reason, media is true happiness.
    
    I wad happy reading the lord of the rings and I’m happy I read it. The happiness reading produced has kept being a source of additional happiness. I remember Bilbo’s songs, and think about them when I take a walk. I remember small little details, or big plot points, and I’m happy to remember them. Same can be said about films and video games (I am just less passionate about them, but that’s just me)
    
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  - kelpie_returns@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    If our feelings are formed by chemicals and waves in the brain, then what would be false about happiness from those sources? Is it actually false happiness, or is it possibly just happiness derived from stigmatized/alternative sources?
    
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- reksas@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  imo, false happiness is something that takes more than it gives. So drugs is good example, maybe they make you feel good but eventually they stop doing that and start taking from you.
  
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  - zeropointone@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    They come with a high cost, sure. But this applies to a lot of other things as well (like MTG cards or rescuing animals or learning how play drums really good etc).
    
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Valmond@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Well we hallucinate an experience made from nerve bursts so everything is sort of an illusion for us IMO.

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psycho_driver@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Happiness is a release of chemicals to receptors in your brain. If doing something makes you happy, then it makes you happy.

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- DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Does using drugs count as true happiness then? Why doesn’t everyone just use drugs to be happy forever?
  
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  - 9point6@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Well yes, that’s why people do drugs.
    
    Usually doing it forever runs up against other problems like paying for it, holding down a job or health problems
    
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  - ozymandias@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    drugs only make you feel happy when you first start, eventually you use them to not feel bad
    also when you have a heart attack and almost die and are crippled for life: that’s sad
    
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  - psycho_driver@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Why else would people use drugs? The problem is that the side effects from drugs tend to increase unhappiness when you’re not on them.
    
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  - lol@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
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  - Philote@lemmy.ml ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Yes, all happiness is a release of chemicals in our brain. Dopamine from memes, oxytocin from petting a dog or a good hug, tryptophan from a good meal, endorphins from an intense workout, all are not much different from heroine and are addictive, just not as intense and without extreme physical side effects.
    
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amanneedsamaid@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
I would think that delusion and happiness are not mutually exclusive. Even if that happiness you’re asking about is a delusion, the persons happiness is still happiness

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Steve@communick.news ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Are you suggesting delusions can’t make one happy?

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abbadon420@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
This sounds like a question for your pastor

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- DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  Lmao
  
  But the thing is, religious people seem to be miserable in their delusions, I’m not even sure what the point of religion is, if they are just gonna be afraid of hell all the time.
  
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rhymeswithduck@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Humans have always understood our experience through stories and myths. Literally every civilization throughout history has them. It’s the people who refuse to consume any fiction that I don’t understand. Even when a story is entirely fictional, surely there is still meaning in metaphor and juxtaposition and human understanding to be found.

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lightnsfw@reddthat.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Whatever makes you feel happiness is happiness. It’s all just chemical responses in your brain when you get down to it. If a TV show gives that to you then good. You should obviously try to diversify the things that make you happy but with the way the world is going take it where you find it.

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Madzielle@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Reading a story that brings happiness is real happiness.

Most often, when I finish a good book, usually one that has altered my world view, or changed some aspect of thinking, is profound, absolutely can even bring joy. The sustained feelings from the thoughts that came from the media are real. If they are happy and joyful thoughts they are real, if they are negative, the emotion is real.

To be delusional in this aspect, you’d have to see the peice of fiction as real life, as in, you may meet the fictional character one day so you are happy at that chance to meet them.

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Melvin_Ferd@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
I remember being young and trying to over analyze this stuff as if it’ll give me something. Meanwhile my brother was chugging beers on a golf course.

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teslasaur@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Whilst i think happiness derived from fiction is real, I would refrain from letting it be my only source of happiness.

I could think of a million things in the world that i would like to do if I hade the resources to do them. None of them are fictional. But i can experience a glimpse of them through fiction.

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- Eq0@literature.cafe ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I agree on the first part, I am unsure about the meaning of the second one. Reading a book is for me a great source of happiness, and I wouldn’t completely replace it even given infinite resources.
  
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  - teslasaur@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    I mean that there are people who (none named, none forgotten), have a tendency to get lost in fiction and forget about reality. I mean that there is more to gain by deriving happiness from something real.
    
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ada@piefed.blahaj.zone ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Are you truly happy? Then that's true happiness, however you got there...

Are you not? Then it's not, however you got there...

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Nemo@slrpnk.net ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Yes, happiness generated by relaxing, by engaging the imagination, by solving puzzles that don’t apply to real life, and by empathizing with fictional characters is still happiness. But being happy isn’t the same as being healthy, and you need more than media for that.

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Buffalox@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
It’s obviously not a delusion if you know it’s fantasy, it’s only a delusion if it’s fictional, but you strongly believe it to be true. Like believing there is life after death.

Fantasy is a part of our imagination, that enable us to speculate on things that may happen in the future, and prepare for them.
We can do that for fun, and speculate on things we very well know will not likely happen. That is entertainment.

Delusion is to believe things that are very unlikely to have either already happened or will happen, but believe them despite being contrary to logic and the evidence. Like for instance religions or believing Santa Clause is real.

If a delusion is fixed, and no degree of evidence it is a delusion will persuade the person. It can become much like a psychosis:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delusion
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychosis

Therefore Religion can reasonably be considered a mental illness. Which most today will not be willing to acknowledge, but I think maybe in 50 years will become more accepted.

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cerebralhawks@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
I would say there is a case to argue it can be a delusion. I would say you don’t have the authority to determine to what extent someone enjoys or relates to this delusion.

I saw a conversation on another site and I didn’t reply the way I wanted because it would have been insensitive. But that point of view has greater context here. People were talking about the AIDS epidemic of the 1980s and 1990s. I don’t know anyone who died from AIDS, or really felt connected to any celebrities who had it. However (especially since you bring up anime in the OP), there is an anime that is generally disliked for a few reasons, some of them valid. Since I am introducing it in this context, I cannot say what the anime is, because the “AIDS angle” is a huge spoiler, and I really don’t do spoilers. But it introduces this character near the end of the second season, and this character is all kinds of awesome and inspirational. You find out that what they’re doing is due to their time being short… due to AIDS. Or, if we’re going off the book those episodes are based on (light novel, not manga), it’s actually AIDS and cancer because, like, eff this character in particular, I guess. I don’t think I have to tell you how this arc ends. I will say if it were its own thing, if it were adapted separately from that anime with all the baggage, it would stand as one of the great drama series out there, it would have a lot more fans and attention on it.

So now we circle back to the OP’s question. If happiness coming from anime (or the other media) is invalid, what about sadness from anime? What if it’s an anime character with purple hair who really makes you care about a real-life social issue that doesn’t affect anyone you know? Does that make it any less real?

It’s not up to me to decide for you. I personally believe those feelings are valid. How you feel, I suppose, depends on factors that matter to you. For example, you might personally know someone who died from AIDS, and you’re like “well screw that fictional character, because that disease claimed millions of lives and I’m more affected.” But I would argue the story brings awareness. I would not argue that such a person is wrong for feeling that way, though.

If you know what anime I’m talking about, I’d ask that you follow my lead on the spoiler thing and not mention it. But I’m no one’s boss here.

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leaky_shower_thought@feddit.nl ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
the happiness is real. how you got happy may not be real and sometimes, may not matter in the long run.

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reksas@sopuli.xyz ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
depends how you are enjoying them. If you are delusional and think the stories are real or something, I guess its just that its pretty fragile happiness which might cause harm to maintain it. If you are just enjoying the experiencing those stories then there is nothing negative in that. Ultimately its about how much good does something bring to your life.

Who cares about how it looks to others, unless you are causing harm.

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gaybriel_fr_br@jlai.lu ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
So we’re just using NoStupidQuestions to insult large swathes of people now, I see.

Get off your high horse by insulting literally the entirety of fiction readers because you believe their happiness to be a “delusion” whatever batshit insane meaning you think that has.

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- DeathByBigSad@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  ?
  
  I was just enjoying a game, then my conservative parents tell me its wasting time.
  
  Then they proceeded to watch propaganda on social media.
  
  I’m not sure who ruined your day to be making negative inferences about a question, but I guess that’s just the average conservative mindset being negative about everything.
  
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  - gaybriel_fr_br@jlai.lu ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    Ah, so you’re one of the idiots who throw words they don’t understand around thinking the spray and pray will work at some point.
    
    I feel bad for your parents.
    
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bacon_pdp@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
If you dig too deep into reality, you will discover that effectively 100% of the population is delusional on no less than 2000 subjects. They just have yet to be bitten on the ass for it.

And people take it very poorly when you start pointing it out; just like you and I will when someone else shows up to do the same thing to us. Historically speaking we lock people up for shouting things that have not yet been accepted by enough people. Like the earth is going to be eaten by the sun (true in a few billion years) or the sky is falling (it is more acceptable when you call it rain).

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bizarroland@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
I think happiness is more generally defined as the absence of things that make you unhappy rather than a tangible thing itself.

Kind of like how cold is defined by the absence of heat.

The issue is, is that people think that happiness is a concrete thing, and so when they are asked if they are happy, they start looking for some like joyous positive, buoyant, radiant, plus in their lives.

And then, when they don’t find it, it makes them wonder if they are not happy.

Happiness is the capacity to be engaged with your life under your own volition.

If you have that, even if you don’t feel the way you think happiness should feel, you are happy.

Happiness is not contentment.

Happiness is not joy.

Happiness is not a warm blanket on a cold winter’s day.

Happiness is being alive and present in your center.

If you feel like you are not happy, that is what you should aim for. All of the other things will work themselves out in the process.

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ChicoSuave@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Happiness from media is like strength from lifting - is it real strength of the weight is measured precisely and there is an easy to lift handle? Of course it’s real. How we feel reading and vicariously living through stories gives our brains an emotional workout.

All things test us. Whether mentally, physically, emotionally, we are required to use a bit of our willpower/strength/sanity each day because that’s life. Without working on, building, and honing our ability to manage we would always have a personality defining moment where we found the edge of our ability and collapsed from the pressure.

We also see others in that medium and can learn from what they experience. Again, vicarious living is a free tool our brain uses all the time and media is exactly why.

Being entertained is a workout for being a good person not because it builds the imagination but expands our capacity to be a more developed person.

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sanguinepar@lemmy.world ⁨3⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
I think you’re going to have to provide a generally acceptable definition of “true happiness” - and a definition that isn’t contingent on the points raised in your question.

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