LibreOffice is right about Microsoft, and it matters more than you think.

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Submitted ⁨⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨Mrkawfee@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨technology@lemmy.world⁩

https://www.xda-developers.com/libreoffice-is-right-about-microsoft/

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Drusenija@aussie.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
The comment about convenience trumping almost everything else reminded me of this old post (wasn’t originally on The Urban Dictionary but they have it now under the definition of Linux).

If Operating Systems Ran The Airlines

When you board the plane, you are given a seat, four bolts, a wrench and a copy of the seat-HOWTO.html. Once settled, the fully adjustable seat is very comfortable, the plane leaves and arrives on time without a single problem, the in-flight meal is wonderful. You try to tell customers of the other airlines about the great trip, but all they can say is, “You had to do what with the seat?”

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- MadMadBunny@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  That’s highlighting perfectly the real problem: too many people can’t assemble basic IKEA furniture properly even with clear, logical, fool-proof instructions.
  
  It’s not given to everyone.
  
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  - Buddahriffic@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I’m not sure which of the subgroups of this is more frustrating: the ones who refuse to put the necesarry thought towards understanding it but would be able to do so if they did, or the ones who do try their best but still can’t figure out such simple instructions.
    
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  - Broken@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I use the term idiot instead of fool. I also use the term resistant instead of proof. Nothing is idiot proof. Things can be idiot resistant though.
    
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squirrel@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I remember when Microsoft first attempted to prevent the standardisation of Open Document Format (used by LibreOffice and others) and then bullied its way into getting approval for own OOXML standard. Already back then, supporters of FOSS warned that Microsoft would use the overly complicated OOXML to maintain its stranglehold on users of Office-like software.:

Whenever applicable and possible, standards should build upon previous standardisation efforts and not depend on proprietary, vendor-specific technologies. Albeit, MS-OOXML neglects various standards and uses its own vendor-specific formats instead. This puts a substantial burden on all vendors to fully implement MS-OOXML. It seems questionable how any third party could ever implement them equally well, especially when a standard comes with 6000 pages of specifications without serving its minimalistic purpose.

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- loutr@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Yeah, the issue is not “Microsoft’s usage of the XML format”. The issue is that they blatantly bought their format’s standardization, and then intentionally released an implementation that substantially deviated from the specs, making sure that MSO was the only “compatible” implementation.
  
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homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Shit, I’ve been right about microsoft for thirty-plus years and it doesn’t make a damned bit of difference.

They are. A. MONOPOLY. They have never “fought fair”, and it wouldn’t ever occur to them to do so. Their heart is all BOGU.

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- jayambi@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Wasn’t there even a Simpsons episode about it?
  
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  - lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    “Buy him out, boys!”
    
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  - FinalRemix@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    “Buy him out, boys.”
    
    Das Bus
    
    Season 9 / Episode 14 (19:10)
    
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- PalmTreeIsBestTree@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  The only reason Apple still exists is because Microsoft didn’t want to get broken up, so they invested in Apple to stay competitive for 150 million in 1997.
  
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  - homesweethomeMrL@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I dunno. I mean that’s true, but it’s also the case that Gates stole a lot from Jobs and they knew each other pretty well so it was also like a friendly loan.
    
    Tbf Gates took the boos he got at AppleWorld or whatever it was then pretty well.
    
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  - kadup@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    That’s not entirely true. It’s true that Microsoft invested in Apple, but it’s not true that they were about to get broken up and that Microsoft money saved them.
    
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communism@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I think the point about convenience is more about familiarity than Windows being inherently easier. Speaking as someone who switched from Linux to Windows previously, I found the change very difficult as a lot of the FOSS software I was using didn’t have Windows versions. I had a nightmare trying to read one of my LUKS-encrypted drives on Windows. I was practically using WSL for everything. That’s not that Windows is inherently harder than Linux; it’s just that I was used to Linux and the FOSS ecosystem, just as some are used to Windows and their proprietary ecosystem.

If your hardware isn’t working properly, you have to find drivers that run on Linux; if the developer never made Linux-compatible drivers, you have to figure something else out.

Most drivers come pre-installed with the Linux kernel or your distro—I never had to manually install any drivers for my current hardware. Compared to Windows where you will have to go out of your way to install graphics drivers for NVIDIA or AMD depending on your graphics card, if you want to make the most out of your card’s capabilities.

Installers made for Windows don’t need any special TLC; you double-click them and they work.

See, I think if you’ve used Linux for any length of time you’d quickly find the system of package managers way easier than the system of having to hunt down an .exe on the internet, guess whether or not it’s a legit copy or if it’s malware, and manually manage updates for all the different software you have installed.

I agree that people stay on Windows out of convenience, but it’s not convenience as in Windows is inherently easier, but it’s convenience as in you’re used to the way things work on Windows. Because in my perspective, things do “just work” on Linux, and that’s because I’m used to the way things work here.

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- otacon239@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  The forest time I updated some 50 programs by running a single update command, I wondered why it hasn’t been the standard since the start.
  
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  - nekusoul@lemmy.nekusoul.de ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    This, so much. Looking back, it’s just insane that pretty much every program you don’t regularly use will beg for updates on Windows. There are some bandaids like WinGet now that I appreciate, but it’s still nowhere as seamless as when the OS and the whole ecosystem around it are designed with a package manager in mind.
    
    A huge chunk of the time I have to spend on tinkering is probably already saved by me not having to wait for updates.
    
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  - k0e3@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I learned about Winget command in Windows after spending a few months on Linux updating with pacman -Syu. It’s so much easier to update a bunch of apps at once when I want to instead of having some popup surprise me when I launch the app.
    
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- bridgeenjoyer@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I’ve been on and off into linux for years, but finally decided to go full in on my main. Now using windows is HORRIBLY unintuitive. Its really gone downhill. Xp was peak.
  
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  - Anti_Iridium@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    This is the first computer where I built it with Linux in mind, and man is it a mostly seamless experience. While I also have a soft spot for XP, I would honestly say 7 was peak. Everything was more or less exactly what it said it was. I do IT, and man, is it frustrating trying to navigate both control Panel, and the settings app.
    
    Sometimes when you click on an icon or a link in control panel, it brings you to settings, so you have to type it into the address bar.
    
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  - noughtnaut@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Agreed on your last point. That’s when programs still had proper tool bars and keyboards shortcuts, before the “ribbon” shit started to fuck over everyone’s muscle memory.
    
    It would have made sense for MS to start with “finger painting UI” and then work towards the power user UI - but the other way round makes zero sense to my poor brain.
    
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- Smoogs@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  You have to install nvidia still whether you chose to do it manually or rpm. If you did none of this you’re staring at nou and if you never had more than one screen you probably didn’t even notice. And if you never ever had to do anything more complex than documents or watch movies( which you couldn’t do without installing some codecs) you’re probably untouched by it.
  
  Additionally some (complex) software won’t run unless you also install something other than Wayland. This isn’t stuff you’d have to consider on windows. in fact sessions are not even a thing on windows you have to think about when it comes to software or graphics.
  
  So just pointing out not all drivers have been installed. You do have to customize the build to needs which isn’t so much the case on windows.
  
  That said : it’s not a big pain in the ass once you figure out installing is just like the same command over and over again and there’s no going and downloading from a website or clicking install or clicking through a wizard. ( other than the initial ‘y’)
  
  Overall I found the Linux install process a giant relief over windows.
  
  it’s just a bit to realize first time doing it and would prefer we be transparent about this and not over sell Linux as if it’s some sort of magic coconut oil. Be realistic : yes there’s some learning moments. No, it’s not that bad. Personally I thought it was worth it and less painful than what up I had to do with windows.
  
  EG: I no longer have to keep a folder of ‘favourite software’ in case I had to reinstall windows/get a new computer
  
  I just had to keep a backup list of ‘sudo dnf insfall’ commands and it just conveniently sits on the non boot drive that is accessible for copy pasting after a fresh install which is really quite nice.
  
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  - eronth@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Thank you for being rational here. It drives me bonkers how many people try to act like Linux is “just as easy” as windows. Like, yeah, to some degree it’s getting used to the differences, but there are definitely considerations and complexities that you simply don’t have to worry about with a windows machine.
    
    As a relatively recent convert, I can say it was easier than I was expecting, but it was not “just as easy” as installing windows. It took more time to set up all the extra bits I needed/wanted, and I’m still not fully set up the way I’d like to be.
    
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- user224@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Yup. I started wirh Linux, and trying Windows was a bit of pain.
  
  I had to run some mystery (included in installer) script to create local account (BypassNRO.cmd), then I remember having to change something in registry, but I don’t remember what that was, disable BITS and SysMain because they were slowing down the PC, disable automatic updates in Group Policy Editor because there’s no other way, get printer drivers from archive.org because despite HP saying it should automatically install, Windows said to get it from manufacturers website, and the Bluetooth would just randomly dissapear despite always working on Linux (Mint).
  
  Well, and on Linux Mint I just had to install Nvidia driver and Realtek WiFi drivers in Driver Manager (GUI).
  
  And of course, Arch was a bit harder to set up, but the Wiki is done well, so nothing too crazy. But I should probably revisit it, because honestly, I don’t remember how I set up my PC anymore. I went with encryption and boot separate from ESP, which differ from the default guide.
  
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- Know_not_Scotty_does@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  As a recent linux convert I found printer drivers and setups to be a pain and getting java runtime working was a process but everything else was about a days worth and it just works. Hell, even hitting the windows key on the keyboard and typing the ms name for stuff pops up the relevant linux program. If you didn’t know you were looking at something different, it wouldn’t be obvious for the most part.
  
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  - user224@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Just curious, what brand of printer do you have?
    
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- kattfisk@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  My old mother, who is completely disinterested in technology, has used a Linux desktop for a decade now without major issues.
  
  If you aren’t a power user the differences between it and Windows are minor. You have windows, icons, menu bars, x closes the application, the box makes it big, right-click to open a menu, left-click to select, it’s all the same stuff. Besides, most of your time is spend in a browser anyway.
  
  Yeah things break some times, but no more than in Windows. Being on a very default Ubuntu installation she can just search for her problems online and blindly run some random console command that probably fixes it, just like on Windows.
  
  Hardware is easier because drivers are generally just magically there. Software is easier because it’s mostly in a repository which automatically installs dependencies and updates and doesn’t come with malware.
  
  By far the biggest problem has been documents and executables that can only be opened in Windows. Mostly PDF forms (fuck you Adobe).
  
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TheHobbyist@lemmy.zip ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I don’t buy the argument that windows just works or that it’s somehow better or more stable. The reality is we all have grown to learn about computers specifically using windows and it’s been a steep learning curve. We have gotten familiar with its specificities and its sporadic misbehavior and accepted that as the norm. And people prefer what they are used to even if it’s suboptimal because they would rather not learn something else from scratch, even if in the long run it could be better.

Put any person who has zero computer experience in front of a windows computer or Linux computer and I doubt they would say the windows computer just works and the Linux one doesn’t.

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- AppearanceBoring9229@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  Put any person who has zero computer experience in front of a windows computer or Linux computer and I doubt they would say the windows computer just works and the Linux one doesn’t.
  
  In my experience, usually with Linux they have less problems and it’s easier to use. Until they need an application that only works on Windows.
  
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  - TheHobbyist@lemmy.zip ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I think this is an issue where you are talking about people coming from windlws trying to do windows things on linux like run windows software. Of course you can in some cases run windows software on Linux but it is not a fair comparison to blame Linux for not being able to run windows software. Linux has it’s own suite of software and that is often better suited.
    
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  - T156@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    In my experience, it’s been a bit of a mixed bag. There are some things that work in Linux, and some things that don’t, even after a bit of fiddling. My desktop’s front panel is completely unusable on Linux, for example.
    
    Windows is at least widespread enough that it’s far more likely that parts will work on it at least to some degree. And sure enough, the front panel works fine there.
    
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- vrighter@discuss.tchncs.de ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  the windows just works argument actually refers to the fact that it’s consistent.
  
  If you have a problem with the desktop, nobody needs to ask you which de you use, or which parts you have substituted out. You have a graphics problem, nobody asks if wayland or x11. You have a problem with audio, nobody asks you whether you have pipewire-pulse installed and to use pipewire. Shit’s the same everywhere.
  
  I say this as an arch linux user. The choice we all love, is actually a detriment to the average non-power user.
  
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  - sqgl@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Apple has even fewer choices and therefore greater consistency.
    
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- embed_me@programming.dev ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Linux works better than windows for most apps/system stuff.
  
  But there are certain classes of apps which are not up to par with whatever is available on windows. An office suite is one of them, I just use the Google suite (mostly sheets) in a browser, it works better for me.
  
  I agree with the developers point about lock-in but sadly I don’t have enough time at work to work with libre calc over proprietary alternatives (I have tried it truly but the performance and user experience is just not good enough for someone already past deadlines)
  
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- racemaniac@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Then i don’t know what you’re doing with your computer, but every time i use linux, all those things that are “awesome and just work on linux” somehow still have lots of annoying gotchas that waste too much of my time.
  
  I’ve got some nice linux servers running that i’m really happy with. But once you go for the linux desktop, it’s just a world of pain compared to windows, no matter how you look at it. I’m more than experienced enough to get it running in the end, but claiming that linux “just works” is delusional…
  
  Just the fact of how the ecosystem is fractured (which is also mentioned in the article here, with running a debian package on fedora), is already something that’ll make it too complicated for a lot of people to handle. And even the things “that just work”, just don’t. For example, i’ve got a steamdeck like device now, with bazzite (steamos like OS). Yes, it’s amazing at running windows games in linux. I heard so many people say how with proton “running windows games on linux just works”. If you stick to the ultra popular games, it for sure does. Go to a game that’s a bit older or lesser known, and no it isn’t. Make time to figure out settings to get it to run, tinker with controller mappings, and in the end, it might just still not work. And pretty much everything on linux feels that way, the initial impression is decent. If you stay on the safe path, it’ll work pretty well. Do something a bit less common: you’re on your own.
  
  And that’s its commonly accepted for trolls to blame the user, and be like “it’s free, so accept it the way it is” when someone dares to ask questions or … even… (do i dare say it?)… complain… Doesn’t make for the most constructive environment…
  
  Linux has achieved many great things, but the linux desktop sure has its use if you’re willing to spend your time on it, but acting as if it’s a better experience than the windows desktop is just delusional. There’s no other way to put it.
  
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  - TheHobbyist@lemmy.zip ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I didn’t say Linux just works. I’m just fighting back against the preconceived idea that it’s just a total mess. I have myself ran into issues with linux. But also, I’ve run into many issues with windows too.
    
    The difference is that when people encounter issues with windows, it’s like well too bad, need to find someone who can fix it. But when they encounter an issue with Linux, it’s like linux sucks, let me get back to Windows as if it didn’t suck at least as much.
    
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- Brkdncr@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Every single time I try out Linux it’s been a shitshow. Stuff doesn’t work, drive encryption requires multiple passwords to boot up. Updates that fail.
  
  Windows just works. Only apple is more consistent.
  
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  - dropped_packet@lemmy.zip ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I have never seen an encryption implementation that required two passwords to decrypt the disk.
    
    Is it possible the first one decrypted the disk and the second password was for your user account?
    
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- EnsignWashout@startrek.website ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  Put any person who has zero computer experience in front of a windows computer or Linux computer and I doubt they would say the windows computer just works and the Linux one doesn’t.
  
  I did this experiment on my own kids. They find Linux more usable, and find it hard to believe people tolerate Windows.
  
  There’s also some indoctrination involved.
  
  But they have access to both, and they prefer Linux. I think that the “Windows is genuinely easier” argument doesn’t hold any water anymore.
  
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- Ilovethebomb@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Not so much the user experience, but I’m not aware of any software that doesn’t work with Microsoft, except for ones developed by Apple.
  
  With the latest version of Windows, it’s not even a question as to whether a given piece of software will run.
  
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  - sqgl@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Networking your home computers still does not work smoothly. It often stops for no good reason until you reboot everything.
    
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MonkderVierte@lemmy.zip ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Anyone who thinks this is new, please read this, this and this.

And there’s also this. It’s a topic since shortly after the standardization of the Open Document Format 2006. MS then feared to lose whole governments as customers, so they (pseudo)standardized their own format, with a whole bunch of traps (in the format) and abuses of market power.

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Saleh@feddit.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
The thing with “just works” in monopolies is that it eventually stops working. I already have terrible excel bugs all the time on my work computer. Left clicking a cell sometimes just selects half a dozen adjancent cells. You vlick something and all of a sudden the rendering just goes completely haywire… You have two larger tables open and it just crashes…

Things will only get worse from this, until the global economy will loose trillions to being stuck with Microsoft.

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- kadup@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  The thing with “just works” in monopolies is that it eventually stops working
  
  This gets accelerated when the company starts changing the product just for the sake of having to change something to meet some OKR, or because they need to find a way to incorporate the newest marketing buzz (cloud, AI, etc).
  
  The Office suite was simple to use and performant. Nowadays I watched a college professor struggle for 8 minutes trying to figure out how to save a file locally rather than saving it to OneDrive, because they redesigned everything around that. It also takes an obnoxiously long time to launch, it keeps popping up some Copilot button in inconvenient places too.
  
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- stringere@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  16 digit numbers
  
  Still
  
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- pycorax@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  You’re right but at the end of the day, the average person is content with having their stuff just work for now and that’s a reasonable expectation isn’t it? If it ain’t broke, people aren’t going to go out of their way to protect themselves from a what-if that they may feel is going to maybe mildly inconvenience them when it happens regardless of what it actually is, since they may be ignorant of the true state of how things might be.
  
  And in the end, some are just gonna accept that inconvenience from stuff not working completely rather than switch. People have been saying to switch away from Chrome for years and now even with ad-blocking being nerfed, people are still on it.
  
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Taalnazi@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Moved to LibreOffice. No regrets.

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- skeezix@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  does libre office do scripting? (like VBA?)
  
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  - olympicyes@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    LibreOffice Basic, JavaScript, Python. But the macros wouldn’t necessarily be compatible with Excel.
    
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Tehhund@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

The problem: our desire for convenience

Bring on the downvotes, but: When it comes to tools like computers, convenience is synonymous with productivity. People aren’t unreasonably demanding to have their hands held, they want to get stuff done. We need to stop acting like ~~convenience~~ productivity is just one of many concerns. It is the primary concern.

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- Zink@programming.dev ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Yes, exactly that! That convenience == productivity connection is exactly why I am a Linux Mint fan!
  
  Convenience has value, so a lot of people will give their “free” information, attention, and control to commercial entities in exchange for it. Enshittification ensues and many of us are conditioned to beware of things that are simple to use because it REALLY just means you’ve been locked out of 95% of the options.
  
  When a good FOSS project can bring convenience and productivity to more people around the world with NO strings attached, that is an incredibly good thing. It’s like, humanity actually working together just for the sake of the greater good, but doing it on the internet because governments can suck at it.
  
  Damn, I need to find a good open source project to help out this winter when I’m forced to stop my oudoor “engineer turned farmer” hobbies for the season.
  
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- lefaucet@slrpnk.net ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I find dealing with Micros~1 a giant pain in the ass. It’s always getting in the way of productivity with pointless rearranging of menus all the time, constantly trying to get me to use One Drive, shoving AI into every corner of everything.
  
  I’m trying to make a spreadsheet to figure out and share budgets, instead I’m spending my time hunting for that menu that disappeared and figuring out how to disable copilot because I’m legally not allowed to share client data with third parties.
  
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  - tomkatt@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    Micros~1
    
    I see what you did there. 😆
    
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  - Tehhund@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    This an incredibly tech-brained answer. “Sure, lots of OSS is difficult to install, breaks frequently, and lacks key features, but did you know Microsoft sometimes moves a menu item?”
    
    I love OSS and I want it to succeed but “an item moved” isn’t in the same ballpark as the barriers to OSS adoption.
    
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- sunbeam60@lemmy.ml ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  In addition to that, with great respect to the hard working developers on LibreOffice, at least some of what seems like “unnecessary complexity” in Microsoft’s format is most likely just requirements LibreOffice isn’t solving or haven’t even encountered yet. You don’t get to Office’s size without having to deal with the most insane batshit crazy backcompat or compatibility issues.
  
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  - Noja@sopuli.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    They are intentionally obfuscating their file formats. It has nothing to do with complexity or “backwards compatibility” Microsoft has a LONG history of stuff like this.
    
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- UltraMagnus@startrek.website ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  No, what you say makes sense, and I think it’s part of the reason why linux usage (as a daily driver) is starting to increase now versus 20 years ago. It’s just easier to install and use linux distros nowadays.
  
  And most folks who want office for free are going to go with google docs, for the convenience factor.
  
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Corelli_III@midwest.social ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Not sure why this author is spreading “paid software is convenient and just works” rhetoric. Simply isn’t the case. You just get addicted to trying to solve your problems with money.

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- hansolo@lemmy.today ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Right?! That’s how this article ends?! “Sorry, but people are lazy, so, uh…Microsoft just wins I guess.”
  
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TankovayaDiviziya@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
My only issue with Libre Office is that they are not available on mobile phones. I want to use spread sheets to make calculate and make projections on my finances if I can’t use my computer at a given moment.

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- lefaucet@slrpnk.net ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  opendocument.app
  
  github.com/opendocument-app/OpenDocument.droid
  
  I’ve used this a couple times. Seemed okay
  
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- bigbabybilly@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I understand your desire, but I’ll be damned if I’m gonna use any spreadsheet software on my phone. I can think of few worse platforms for excel. Even my iPad Pro is a nightmare if I don’t have my Magic Keyboard and a mouse. I’ll crack out a laptop or talk through it with gpt.
  
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- Mwa@thelemmy.club ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I think there is a version on F-droid right?
  
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  - logan_hero@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Only a viewer not full package: f-droid.org/…/org.documentfoundation.libreoffice
    
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  - napkin2020@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    droidify.eu.org/app/?id=com.collabora.libreoffice…
    
    No Libreoffice.
    
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aesthelete@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I honestly don’t understand why I would ever write up or share a Microsoft document.

It’s just fucking rich text format. It’s obvious they’re manipulating the format to lock down users with less computer knowledge. Otherwise, why is it so fucking complicated?

Markdown accomplishes 95% of what a word doc does and it is legible with or without rendering.

All of the “special features” of office docs wind up being security nightmares, unusable junk, or both.

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- lka1988@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Corporate execs literally cum over MS’s next big thing. A lot of companies use MS-based infrastructure and applications.
  
  My work just issued me a Surface 7 a few weeks ago, and while it’s nice, the fucking copilot key is driving me absolutely insane. I can’t disable it unless I turn on “Fn Lock” which switches it’s function to open up the Context menu (i.e. right-click menu). HOWEVER, if I do that, then the F1-F12 keys’ volume, brightness, and home/end/pgup/pgdn functions are disabled. I’m convinced this was an intentional decision by MS.
  
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  - aesthelete@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    
    Corporate execs literally cum over MS’s next big thing. A lot of companies use MS-based infrastructure and applications.
    
    Yeah, I mean I’m in that boat myself. But I have the option of SharePoint or Confluence at work and despite the fact that it also sucks, I’m choosing Confluence ten out of ten times.
    
    I get that some people try to do actual work in these docs, but it strikes me as junk every time I encounter it.
    
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  - aow@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I’d imagine you can run some kind of custom script to disable or reassign the key, similar to what ahk does.
    
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- DarkSideOfTheMoon@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  When in save for myself I like rtf or markdown. But when I need on my work it’s normally something from a template or something already on the server that is using Microsoft format, when your employer decide this for you, there isn’t any choice.
  
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  - corsicanguppy@lemmy.ca ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    No, there’s not often a choice.
    
    But I include and discuss a 4% penalty when making wage calculations in an interview.
    
    Even though Office, OneDrive, Teams, Ansible, Jira and Confluence are different toxic apps/websites, it’s still the same “shit tool stack” penalty, one hit.
    
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flop_leash_973@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

The problem: our desire for convenience

This hits it right on the money. As nice as open source and open standards are, at the end of the day none of that matters to the 99% that want/need to do X as fast and painlessly as possible.

To people like my wife MS Office/LibreOffice/Google Docs are all the same thing in the category of productivity suite. And one of those does not meet her where she lives in day to day life. And it doesn’t because there is no money in doing so for LibreOffice. And there is no benefit to her to seek out LibreOffice for her uses.

Hell, just take a look around at the number of people that preach about the evils of Microsoft, Google, or whoever but love them an iPhone and Macbook. As bad as Microsoft and Google can be for screwing over the user with vendor lock-in they don’t hold a candle to Apple. But they get the money despite there being “better” options technically and philosophically for nearly everything they make, but Apple knows all of that pales in importance compared to being convenient.

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racemaniac@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I’ve heard this comment about OpenXML (the xml format of the office documents) before, and i’m a bit on the fence about it.

It’s of course indeed ridiculously complex, but so is office. Microsoft both adds a shit ton of functionality to their documents, and keeps an impressive amount of backwards compatibility.

In the past i heard complaints about part of the OpenXML spec that also allows older binary data in there for backwards compatibility reasons, which of course means for OSS implementations that they don’t just have to implement this spec, but also the older spec that came before to be truly compatible with everything a modern office version can open.

But on the other hand, if i look at it from the side of Microsoft, they opened up their format, they’ve got a gazillion functionalities, should they remove functionality to appease the open source developers? If so which? Should they stop being backwards compatible with documents of decades ago to appease the open source developers? If so how long should they support? Are you going to tell their customers?

Office is an immense program with an immense amount of legacy features, backwards compatibility, …

It’s incredibly complex by nature. And might they have made the format more complex to dissuade competition? Could be. However, in this instance Occam’s razor pushes me more to “write a huge program over a timespan of many decades, with thousands upon thousands of programmers working on it, and you’ll indeed most likely end up with something very complex…”

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Dewege@feddit.org ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Also they already start shortening the live cycle of the non subscription office licenses, calling it „Modern-Lifecycle-Policy“. Up to now you hat 7-10 years of update support. But this year Office 2016 and 2019 phase out, next year already Office 2021! And Office 2024 only has support til 2029. Thats from today only 4 years (at the same price!)

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ilinamorato@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

There’s a phrase that gets passed around the tech scene: “Linux is only free if your time has no value.” Because, yes, Linux and other open-source apps are free to download and use. In a world driven by money, you’d expect the free version to overtake the paid one. The problem is, the paid option…just works.

Sure, until the paid option does something anti-competitive or gets too expensive or shuts down entirely, and you have to switch to a different paid option, sometimes burning dozens of hours in switching time (and/or hundreds of hours of work through lost or corrupted data) in the process. Not to mention the transition costs of just figuring out the new thing. Why not just switch to something that won’t go away, or be changed under your feet?

The problem is that it needs that initial time investment to get it working the way you want it.

Maybe I’m just enough of a tinkerer in any situation that I’ve put pretty much the same amount of time into fiddling with my Linux settings as I did with my last Windows computer.

If your hardware isn’t working properly, you have to find drivers that run on Linux; if the developer never made Linux-compatible drivers, you have to figure something else out.

People have been talking about this for my entire life, but in the past year of my switch to Linux, it has literally never happened once. I downloaded a new, open-source driver for my drawing tablet because it had some extra features that I wanted, but even it worked out of the box. I’ve never experienced this incompatibility. Honestly I’ve never even had trouble with software I wanted not being available for my distro.

Am I doing Linux wrong?

Windows doesn’t have this problem.

LOL.

Installers made for Windows don’t need any special TLC;

ROFL!

you double-click them and they work.

OH wait they’re serious?!

Once they’re installed, they work. If you need to install a driver, it works. You open a document in Office, it works.

Sure, if you don’t run into a permissions issue. And if the system registry doesn’t get corrupted. And if you’re not on an ARM machine. And if your TPM is the right version. And if you’re on the right subversion of Windows. And if a previous install didn’t leave some remnant of itself behind. And if you don’t want to do anything with an Apple device at all. And if sometimes you have the right fonts installed?

Honestly, I think I’ve had fewer problems installing Linux applications than Windows applications, but I can’t attest to that. I think I can be pretty confident in saying that they’re mostly equivalent. Both of them are pretty mature platforms with fairly minimal hiccups, in my experience.

And if something doesn’t work, we can yell at Microsoft until they publish a fix that makes it work again.

That’s a weird way of spelling “until they ignore it for six months and then lock the support thread for inactivity.”

Microsoft has gotten us into a state where we don’t need to think, tinker, or troubleshoot our software. We just double-click the icon and wait for it to “just work.” If it doesn’t, it’s someone else’s issue to solve, and we flood social media and support emails until the issue is resolved.

Here I have to agree with the article, because whatever the reality of installing applications on Windows, this is the fiction they’ve sold us. Apple, too. All operating systems have troubles, and all vendors try to downplay them and fix the stuff that causes problems for most of their users. Linux is just honest about the fact that they can’t make everything a perfectly smooth experience for everyone.

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PM_ME_YOUR_BOOBIES@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
The “windows just works” claim is stupid. Especially the statement the author makes on how you just double click an icon and it just works everytime and if ever there is an issue, someone else will eventually fix it.

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dance_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
If the standard is overly complex, does that mean it’ll be a bigger pain for MS employees to maintain? Sounds like cutting off one’s nose to spite one’s face.

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Bluewing@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I’mma just going to sit over here in the corner with my AbbiWord and Gnumeric…

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SlartyBartFast@sh.itjust.works ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
hey LibreOffice when are you gonna make the keyboard shortcuts in LibreOffice Calc match the keyboard shortcuts in Microsoft Excel?

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Unyieldingly@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
microsoft is a dirty bastard

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Simulation6@sopuli.xyz ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I mean, they could just really suck at writing good software. Isn’t some sort of rule of thumb law to never attribute to malicious intent what can just as easily be explained by stupidity?

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EarthshipTechIntern01@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Disappointing Fox news version of Windows’ take of something somebody at Libre once said about Windows’ domination of markets.

This read like basics. Was hoping for more info on how unusable XML was fot LibreOffice or if it wasn’t (unusable to OSS versions). Obviously, OSS is better for enough reasons that a few in the EU are switching government computers from Windows to Linux.

Yes, corporate & proprietary schtick is lame & crippling. Old news. Guess it needs to be yelled until we research start taking about (marketing) FOSS Solutions.

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Shanmugha@lemmy.world ⁨5⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
There are people for whom this is news? Cheesus chroist

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