How come nobody does anything about North Korea?

Submitted ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨BadmanDan@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨nostupidquestions@lemmy.world⁩

We all see and hear what goes on over there. Kim will execute kids if they don’t cheer hard enough at his birthday party or something? He’s always threatening to nuke countries and is probably has the highest domestic kill count out of any world leader today.

So I ask? Why don’t any other countries step in to help those people. I saw a survey asking Americans and Escaped North Koreans would they migrate to North Korea and to the US if given the chance (hypothetical for the refugees). And it was like <0.1% to 95%. Obviously those people live in terror.

Why do we just allow this to happen in modern civilization? Nukes on South Korea? Is just not lucrative to step in? SOMEONE EXPLAIN TO ME PLEASE!?

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CheeseNoodle@lemmy.world ⁨53⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
iirc one of the issues is that even if things go perfectly on a military front no one is quite sure how to handle and de-program/rehabilitate 25.5 million people a large quantity of which likely lack any skills that would be useful in western economies.

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- BrainInABox@lemmy.ml ⁨7⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
  
  a large quantity of which likely lack any skills that would be useful in western economies.
  
  What an alarming thing to say…
  
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Deflated0ne@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨hour⁩ ago
We see and hear what the US state dept wants us to hear. And nothing more.

As to the core of your question. The answer is nukes. Nukes are the only way to fend off the imperial aggression of the United States and its imperialist partners.

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susurrus0@lemmy.zip ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

We all see and hear what goes on over there.

Do we? We only get a little bit of news from there, and I wouldn’t be sure how reliable it is.

Why don’t any other countries step in to help those people.

Help how? Go to war and slaughter most of their population? They are already heavily mobilized, and no doubt they’d conscript a lot more in case of a conflict. Not to mention they have nukes.

Why do we just allow this to happen in modern civilization?

Who is ‘we’? No offence, but this sounds like some oblivious American patriot asking why America hasn’t saved the world yet.

Is just not lucrative to step in?

Most countries don’t have their own nukes, so they will never even consider getting into a conflict with a country that does have them. Most countries don’t have even a fraction of the resources needed for any sort of operation.

Plus, North Korea has powerful allies (like China) and is technically a member of the UN, so you can’t just disregard everything and conquer it.

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blackstampede@sh.itjust.works ⁨3⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
The short answer is that they have nukes.

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Tollana1234567@lemmy.today ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
china is the only reason why NK doesnt collapse right away, the ccp uses NK as a buffer against SK and the west.

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Jankatarch@lemmy.world ⁨4⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
It’s a whole fucking ocean away which means you are not allowed to invade. And decades of sanctions make it hard for diplomacy.

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Wrrzag@lemmy.ml ⁨7⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago

We all see and hear what goes on over there

No, you don’t.

Kim will execute kids if they don’t cheer hard enough at his birthday party or something

Yeah, and then a year later those same kids appear in public alive and well, as it’s happened again and again.

“In nk people have to push the trains and they kill your family if you don’t whistle merrily while doing it”.

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nomotetoads@lemmings.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
What do you wanna do? Bomb people?

Invading Korea is the reason why north Korea is like that in the first place, idiot

Bloodthirthy jingoists really think war is always the answer lmao gtfo

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the_wiz@feddit.org ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Why should we, as the collective west, spend soldiers lifes and money on “liberating” a population that hates us? Oh, and please mind: “Liberating” a country normally also includes killing a shitton of civilians in this process.

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RaivoKulli@sopuli.xyz ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Can’t do anything as long as China wants the situation to stay like this.

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JustARaccoon@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Generally countries in the west only get involved in conflicts if they get something out of it, be it directly via getting wealth from the country, or indirectly like curbing successful non-capitalistic economies before they catch on and their own people start questioning the billionaires. The “we’re there to liberate people” is just marketing speech.

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- a_new_sad_me@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  I wonder why you say “countries in the west” and not just “countries”. It’s not like, I don’t know, Banín is shouting about North Korea every day and nobody listens.
  
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  - JustARaccoon@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    I don’t know enough about how the rest of the world runs to generalise further
    
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  - scarabic@lemmy.world ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    The US has invested a lot in its capacity to police the world (just look at how many bases we have around the world). So it’s logical to ask why the US would or wouldn’t police something. And usually before the US polices something with force, they start talking about it publicly.
    
    Benin has no such capacity or intentions and so neither polices anything nor telegraphs its opinions.
    
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- TheLeadenSea@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
  You’re saying that no one with empathy has any power to help these people?
  
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  - JustARaccoon@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
    People in power in the west are barely moving the needle for their own people sadly.
    
    Also even if they did, they’d still need a valid cause to start an international conflict I think, it’s why Russia tried the “it’s actually russians in Ukraine that are being oppressed and we’re liberating them” excuse
    
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  - FartMaster69@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    It’s more that there’s little that can be done that doesn’t also risk making the situation much worse.
    
    Something like going to war to depose Kim would lead to mass death and risk spilling over into a much wider conflict since North Korea has the backing of China.
    
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  - Asafum@feddit.nl ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    It seems as though unfortunately any people with the capacity for empathy never end up in positions of real power… :(
    
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  - cecilkorik@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    It’s not a lack of empathy as much as a kind of educated empathy. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, as they say. We historically have a notorious and awful track record of nation building, and I think a lot of people believe this boils down to the fact that it’s very difficult to impose a national identity on people from outside, even with direct, physical intervention. We have tried to get around this at times by only supporting what we believe are legitimate independence movements which clearly already possess a strong national identity. Unfortunately even those tend to devolve into ethnic cleansing campaigns and dictatorship as soon as we leave. And if we don’t leave, then we have to stay there forever and we have to keep interfering every time things threaten to go off the rails and then it becomes paternalistic colonialism.
    
    Keep in mind too that a lot of people living under oppressive regimes are genuinely damaged people and there is nothing but time that can heal those wounds. They are traumatized, they are angry, they have lost loved ones, they have been subjected to horrors we can only imagine and clinically document, without feeling the fear and emotional scars those things inflicted on millions of people. If you suddenly give them back power again, even small amounts of power, it is in human nature for many to seek revenge for what they’ve gone through (and not always against the right people). They’ve learned how to operation within the context of a deeply flawed and dangerous regime, and as resilient as the human spirit is it still is difficult to teach new ways.
    
    At some point, people have got to learn to stand on their own two feet and find a way to build an equal, fair and just nation for all of themselves, by all the people and for all the people. While we certainly can do a better job of supporting this, we can’t do it for them and our attempts to do so have typically ranged from highly questionable to disastrous and extremely counterproductive. We fought for our own freedom, and it is not out of selfishness that we tell them they must fight for their own too. It’s not that we enjoy the fighting, it’s that as awful as it is, it appears necessary to get that hostility out into the open and understood to be as awful as it is, for a successful outcome to be possible.
    
    On the other hand, even that hasn’t helped in Israel/Palestine where it seems like we’ve tried almost everything and failed. The fact is, nobody has the answers. We don’t know the way to fix this. We are always trying, even when it doesn’t seem like it, but we have to be abundantly cautious that we’re not making it worse, because we often are.
    
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  - JandroDelSol@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    no one with political power gets that power through empathy
    
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  - CalipherJones@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    It’s one of the most heavily fortified countries with an extreme nuclear power regime out in the mountains. How could a country like the United States help North Koreans without threatening intense military conflict?
    
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  - can@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Is that hard to believe?
    
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scarabic@lemmy.world ⁨17⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
NK could not defeat the US or China militarily but it could do quite a bit of damage to SK before anyone could stop them. This is a big reason the US doesn’t intervene.

China is concerned about the population of NK suddenly becoming millions of refugees they’ll need to recuse and deal with. So they would rather the regime not collapse.

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Mustard@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨23⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Oh absolutely the west would love to effect regime change in North Korea. Morale win, keep the military industrial complex going, grow the economy, get rid of some pesky poors in combat, maybe hoover up some natural resources.

The problem is China, NK is strategically important to them as a source of said natural resources and as a buffer zone against South Korea. Plus lots of slave labour, global economies can never have enough of that.

So yeah, messing with North Korea means messing with China. Despite a lot of trying nobody has been that stupid yet.

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zxqwas@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Generally frowned upon to invade countries.

Ludicrously costly. Your tax payers will want to know why it’s more important than everything else you do with their money.

Immense suffering. Mostly by the people you’re trying to liberate but also your own troops and their families.

They have nukes and could probably blow up at least a few regional cities. If the regime is threatened they will most likely use them.

South Korea or China or Russia are the only countries with land borders. China and Russia find NK useful to have arround to annoy US. Seoul is within artillerty range of the border.

Building up a new state in it’s place is very difficult. Remember how the Taliban took back power about 15 minutes after the US left Afghanistan?

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- Diplomjodler3@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  That’s not how it would play out or herw, but even in the best case scenario, you’d end up with a huge area with rampant poverty and discontent that world take generations to develop. We’ve had something similar in Germany. Even after thirty years and vast amounts of money spent, East Germany is still way behind and there are areas that have no perspective at all.
  
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AdolfSchmitler@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
World powers typically let countries do whatever they want to their own citizens, it’s only when they do stuff to people of other countries that they get involved.

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- xavier666@lemmy.umucat.day ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Simple and to the point. WW2 didn’t happen just because the Nazis were killing Jews, it happened because Hitler decided to barged into other countries.
  
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- ximtor@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  More like when it threatens some status quo or be inconvenient for them to deal with or might cause a shift to some power dynamics.
  
  I mean nobody(western leaders) gives a fuck about whatever is going on in Africa and Asia. And it’s quite literally mindboggling how the shit in Urkaine and Palestine is still ongoing without any major consequences for the aggressors other than mayyyybe harsh words or hurrdurr sanctions. Soo…as long as it does negatively not impact then, world leaders don’t give a shit about what other countries do.
  
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- nomotetoads@lemmings.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  It’s only when there’s bombs and weapons to be sold yea
  
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Leet@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
America was never about helping the people of the world. Many who believe that are mostly victims of propaganda. It’s all about American interests. If it’s in their interest they will give some reason like liberating a people as a pretence to enable military action.

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Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Jesus Fucking Christ. Stop trying to “liberate” other countries. Don’t you understand what that entails? Rampant slaughter of civilians followed by propping up a colonial regime. How many times are you gonna try this shit before you learn? When has it ever worked?

At least DPRK minds it’s own business. Imo, the country most in need of a war of liberation is the United States, which not only has a backwards, oppressive regime that’s disappearing people off the streets, but also has been directly involved in multiple wars of conquest and aggression, and indirectly involved in more. Whatever you wish upon Korea, let it happen here, let’s let China or someone bomb out cities and set up a government they like. Will you be greeting them as liberators? Not so fun when the shoe’s on the other foot, is it?

Someday I hope y’all are able to see yourselves for the warmongers you are. I have no idea how liberals are able to convince of themselves as “peace-loving” while saying shit like this.

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- Zealousideal_Fox_900@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨10⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Liberate? Are you fucking stupid? Of course it’s a tankie retoid saying that. Calling any replacement of Kimmiecunt a colonial regime is fucking insane. I hope you suffer as those who seek freedom from that shithole do. Shame on you.
  
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  - Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨6⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    I’m just going off what has happened historically every time you people have tried this shit. What happened when y’all tried to “liberate” Vietnam? What happened when y’all tried to “liberate” Afghanistan?
    
    I hope you suffer as those who seek freedom from that shithole do. Shame on you.
    
    I hope you get exactly what you want and get to experience foreigners coming to “liberate” you through mass bombing campaigns. Shame on you.
    
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  - nomotetoads@lemmings.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    
    hate tankies want to bomb more countries
    
    You guys true colors are constantly showing lmao
    
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- Skyrmir@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Liberal has nothing to do with peace loving, or pacifism, that’s a right wing delusion they use to pump their courage before committing more atrocities on them. No different than ‘God forgive me for what I’m about to do’.
  
  Right wing revolutions end with the left in political prisons and slavery. Left wing revolutions end with the aristocrats/oligarchs, and their families, in the ground. It’s really just a question of what flavor of violence is about to happen.
  
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  - Objection@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    It’s more of a liberal delusion that they’re “usually” antiwar, but the one that’s happening now is always “different.” Liberals are right-wing, and generally their (especially US) meddling with regime change ends up installing a fascist who kills or imprisons the left.
    
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Krono@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
America already tried to save the North Koreans once. It was called the “Korean War”.

We bombed them back to the stone age, then permanently isolated them from most of the world. Despite having good reasons for the start of the war, America treated NK like Israel currently treats Gaza.

Even if North Koreans tried to forget that America bombed every hospital, every water purification plant, all the electricity production, etc; the Kim regime’s propaganda will make sure they never forget.

If we actually wanted to help those people, the first step would be removal of economic sanctions. There is no clean way to remove dictatorship, but the “Arab Spring” model is much more effective and humane than the “Afghanistan War” model.

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- kelpie_returns@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Til that i don’t know enough about the Korean War. Jfc
  
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  - ragingHungryPanda@lemmy.zip ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Ohhhhh it’s so much worse. Here’s the intro to the BlowBack podcast S3, which is all about the Korean War open.spotify.com/episode/4ZX1YIvtHhxuoOTaH41VNC
    
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- anachrohack@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
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  - Dogyote@slrpnk.net ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    If you read the previous comment more closely you’ll realize that the commentor wasn’t comparing today’s NK to Gaza, but Korea during the Korean War to Gaza. That is a reasonable comparison, as nearly every standing structure was bombed.
    
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  - Krono@lemmy.today ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    You have obviously misunderstood me.
    
    I was comparing the United States actions in the Korean War(1950s) to Israel’s ongoing genocide in Gaza. The mass civilian bombing campaigns, complete destruction of civilian infrastructure, manmade famine, widespread preventable disease, and imposed economic isolation are very similar between the two cases.
    
    I am not comparing current-day North Korea to current-day Gaza, and I agree with you that would not be a good analogy.
    
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Drbreen@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Same reason why no one does anything about the atrocities that happen within the US.

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- LEMMYNAT0R@programming.dev ⁨20⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Comparing “the atrocities” in the US with NK is really out of touch.
  
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  - Drbreen@sh.itjust.works ⁨16⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Shifting focus on the fact that US has its hands in vat fulls of blood yet the question is “Why isn’t anyone doing anything about NK?!”
    
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  - nomotetoads@lemmings.world ⁨8⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Yeah I’m sure north Korean child don’t have to worry about getting shot lmao
    
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- shawn1122@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  So… Nukes.
  
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  - Drbreen@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Part of it.
    
    How many children have been killed because an insurance company refused payment for healthcare.
    
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jerkface@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

We all see and hear what goes on over there.

Bullshit.

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- napkin2020@sh.itjust.works ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Yeah all the terrible shit we see is just a tip of the iceberg.
  
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  - BrainInABox@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨minutes⁩ ago
    Western chauvinism is a faith based belief.
    
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  - novibe@lemmy.ml ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    Why would you believe your media regarding a country they admit is “closed off”?
    
    Do you seriously believe they execute ppl for having the same haircut as Kim? And then execute ppl for having a different haircut from him?
    
    They execute generals all the time, then the generals appear alive a few months later. That’s that mystical Juche necromancy for ya.
    
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Wahots@pawb.social ⁨22⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Nobody wants to do that. North Korea is a shithole-class country that hates SK, is propped up by China, and to a lesser extent, Russia, who basically use them as slave labor and cannon fodder for their illegal war in Ukraine.

While NATO could easily steamroll NK, SK is right there and would get heavily damaged in a war. And then SK would probably have to take care of a ton of starving, brainwashed, uneducated people and a bombed flat country. Nobody wants to fix them, and superpowers like China are actively working against peaceful initiatives like reunification.

It’s an injustice for the world, but there’s much bigger fish to fry on the world stage right now. Existential, extinction-class threats like climate change and nuclear war. Democracies fighting tooth and nail against totalitarianism, like Ukraine. And western countries in various fights against the predictable but extremely annoying rise in fascism.

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PahdyGnome@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Short answer is that NK is pretty much self-contained. Occasional Kim might rattle his sabre but no one is too worried about it. Until they start making serious threats to the stability of other countries it’s just a case of leave well enough alone.

Sure it sucks what the people of NK have to endure but it’s not for other countries to tell them how they should live unless they directly ask for help or start threatening the sovereignty of other countries.

As someone else in the comments mentioned, WW2 wasn’t an intervention to protect the German citizens that were being persecuted, it was a reaction to German invasion of other nations.

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phoenixz@lemmy.ca ⁨9⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
Loads of reasons. It has (or at least had) protection from China who doesn’t want a Western nation at it’s border. It can wreck havoc on SK if invaded. It would cause loads and loads of casualties to invade.

In any case: The way SK is going now, all NK has to do is wait another 30-50 years and they can just walk in empty land, there.

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rumimevlevi@lemmings.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Because north korea only make empty threats and the west are hypocrites and never gave a damn,aboyt internstional law, democracy and human rights in other countries

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- Spur4383@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Or, just hear me out, because the west doesn’t want to enter into a war with China in Korea a second time.
  
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  - rumimevlevi@lemmings.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    In that case they should stop pretending to care about what i mentioned instead of acting like they care about Palestinians but still buying arms from them and keep great economical relation with the terrorist state , celebrating Israel attack on Iran under of the pretext that Iran is ruled by authoritarian regime while having great connection with Saudis, not pressuring UAE to stop support the RSF in Sudan using UAE, Israeli and USA arms
    
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Randomgal@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Because that roads leads to war. The moment one country decides it has the authority to overule another’s sovereignity because they disagree with what’s going on there, it becomes a free for all.

This line of thinking is the very reason why there are two Koreas today, because of two superpowers who thought they knew better and could make a nice profit in the process.

We have a word for this: Colonialism.

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- surewhynotlem@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  And we certainly don’t do THAT anymore.
  
  If NK was oil rich and off the coast of the US, we’d colonialism the shit out of it.
  
  It’s not because the world is now too enlightened for colonialism. It’s because the juice isn’t worth the squeeze. NK has nothing of value, and China wants it to stay there as a buffer to SK.
  
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jenesaisquoi@feddit.org ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Because China doesn’t want anyone to.

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MelonYellow@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨days⁩ ago
Because there’s a city of 20 million people like 10 miles from the border that could get nuked just by conventional weapons

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surph_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
No one does anything, because it’s not actually that bad. Most of the quality of life issues are due to western imposed sanctions, and not the authoritarian leadership.

You’re sensing the cognitive dissonance between western propaganda vs western actions. Keep going in that direction. You’re close to getting it. Most of what you’ve been told about North Korea is made up bullshit.

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- Gelik@feddit.dk ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Do you have any source for better education about North Korea?
  
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  - surph_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    https://thegrayzone.com/tag/north-korea/
    
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- Ninjasftw@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
  Lol what cool aid have you been drinking theguardian.com/…/north-korea-execution-man-k-pop…
  
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  - surph_ninja@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
    You say without a speck of irony, as you post a well-known propaganda rag.
    
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humanspiral@lemmy.ca ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago

We all see and hear what goes on over there

First, the ROK unfiltered propaganda on DPRK is as believable as Ukrainian propaganda. We all know “the pure unvarnished truth” as the complete trust in that propaganda.

The US’s unjustified war on Korea was to overthrow a democratic unification election in which the less corrupt North party won. Ever since, an oligarchist duopoly has been propped up by the US, and standard of living is determined by the isolationism imposed by US/ROK alliance.

DPRK is aligned with winning future alliance, and ROK is being canibalized, like other colonies, by its master. DPRK has always been the stronger military side, by necessity, and the future is likely better for them. In your example, “why not do something about the US for actual verified first hand threats to citizens not cheering enough for Trump”?

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- RedditRefugee69@lemmynsfw.com ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  Interesting tankie take.
  
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  - humanspiral@lemmy.ca ⁨21⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
    Holy hilarious nerve hitting, Batman. Superman is the American way/might that simplistically pretends to side with truth and justice.
    
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boolean_sledgehammer@lemmy.world ⁨1⁩ ⁨day⁩ ago
Feel free to pitch the idea to congress. It will cost somewhere in the realm of trillions of dollars to invade, occupy, and rebuild North Korea. We’re talking an occupation lasting decades. A full time military presence for the foreseeable future as North Korea rebuilds something resembling a functional democratic society.

Don’t get me wrong, their military would get absolutely bodied in a full on shooting war with any sort of NATO-esque military coalition. But they have a sizable entrenched force with more than a few functional nuclear weapons. It would cost A LOT of lives.

So, that’s the bill. If you think you can convince congress to go for it, go nuts.

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- tempest@lemmy.ca ⁨15⁩ ⁨hours⁩ ago
  China would never let that happen, it would end up being a China US proxy war… Which it always was
  
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