Old gamers don't understand what mobile gaming has become

Submitted ⁨⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago⁩ by ⁨atomicpoet@lemmy.world⁩ to ⁨games@lemmy.world⁩

Old gamers often misunderstand the quality of mobile games.

I realized this a couple of weeks ago when I asked my 12-year-old daughter whether she wanted to bring her Nintendo Switch or her Android tablet on our two-week vacation. She chose the tablet.

Why? Because her Android has Genshin Impact, Fortnite, Roblox, Candy Crush, Wuthering Waves, and Sky: Children of Light. She simply prefers those over her Switch library — which is decent but doesn’t compare to what she’s got on the tablet.

Adults tend to dismiss mobile gaming by saying things like, “There’s no 1:1 equivalent to Super Mario Odyssey, Tears of the Kingdom, or Cyberpunk 2077 on mobile.”

Fine. My daughter has access to all those games. Our family owns over 8,000 games across PC and consoles. She can play Super Mario Odyssey any time she wants, but she doesn’t. She’d rather play Genshin Impact.

And she’s not alone. Most of her friends are on their tablets or phones. It makes sense — gaming is as much about socializing as playing, and iOS and Android dominate for a reason.

Sure, we can scoff and say, “Kids these days don’t recognize a good game when it hits them in the face.”

But I remember feeling that way about Pokémon and Yu-Gi-Oh. They’re still thriving today, with now-grown adults still playing.

I also think back to my own childhood. My mom hated Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles. Yet, I snuck a TMNT Game Boy game into the house and played it behind her back. TMNT never disappeared — it’s still around.

With the original Switch’s price rising (at least here in Canada), it just makes sense to consider Android tablets — especially for kids. Sure, you can’t play Black Myth: Wukong on Android, but that’s why I have PCs ready for that. Kids? They just want to have fun and connect with friends.

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Kolanaki@pawb.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I understand just fine. The only good mobile games aren’t mobile games. They are ports of normal games for mobile devices. Which is a super incredibly small number of games.

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- atomicpoet@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Wow, an expert on all mobile games—based on exactly how many hours scrolling and judging from your porch?
  
  There are over 700,000 mobile games on Google Play and the App Store combined. Over seven hundred thousand. You really think you’ve played, let alone fathomed, the quality of that entire universe?
  
  Lumping all mobile games together because of a few gacha titles is like calling all movies “just commercials” because of some awful reality TV. Face it: the world’s moved on, but you’re still shouting at clouds.
  
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  - Kolanaki@pawb.social ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    One does not need to play every single piece of shovelware to be able to identify shovelware.
    
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  - smeg@feddit.uk ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    How many of the mobile games that you specifically mentioned aren’t gatcha games?
    
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  - MotoAsh@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    There are over 700,000 games on the play store. … and 699,900 of them are basic, traditional mobile games that are basically a gamified e-store for imaginary goods…
    
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- orenj@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  true on the only good mobile games not being mobile games, though you’re wrong about the number being small. Emulation means that entire console libraries are available. I’ve been plinking away at the SNES library for the past couple of years on my phone and am still spoiled for choice.
  
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JustARaccoon@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Hmm I’m not sure using gacha games which are designed for addictive gameplay loops and predatory monetisation being the games that your kid prefers over standalone experiences is a good argument to make

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rikudou@lemmings.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Who would’ve thunk, young people with brains that are not fully developed tend to prefer games with addictive elements.

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- atomicpoet@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  People used to say the same thing about games when we were kids. Remember that?
  
  I remember plenty if moral panic about video games while growing up.
  
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  - sparky@lemmy.federate.cc ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    yes, but mobile games now are literally casinos, with research going into making them as addictive as possible to maximise in app purchase and advertisement revenue
    
    source: worked in ad tech for several years, specifically in the mobile gaming industry and cost/ad optimisation. a job I regret ever taking and which feels very scummy in retrospect.
    
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  - sylveon@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    It’s absolutely not the same thing. I used to play a lot as a kid (still do) and I have no problem with today’s kids doing the same. But I want them to be able to enjoy games without constantly being manipulated into spending as much money as possible.
    
    And it’s not just about kids either, I think these predatory tactics affect adults too.
    
    It’s not a moral panic, the problem is capitalism.
    
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BroBot9000@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Games as a service is a scam and goes hand in hand with gambling and addictive mechanics used to keep people hooked. It’s absolutely toxic.

Nintendo is a corporate shithole but at least they make some sort of semblance of non abusive games.

“Portable gaming” is always welcome but the business model of phone games is fucking disgusting.

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- atomicpoet@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Then don’t play games-as-a-service on mobile. Plenty of great mobile games you can buy outright, no strings attached.
  
  Worried about ownership? Back up the APK files—problem solved.
  
  You don’t have to swallow every business model you hate. Choice is still on your side.
  
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  - BroBot9000@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I don’t. You are exposing children to those exact mechanics and normalizing that behaviour. Without further thought in the future they will go for increasingly scammy shit tactics.
    
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Ulrich@feddit.org ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago

Why? Because her Android has Genshin Impact, Fortnite, Roblox, Candy Crush, Wuthering Waves, and Sky: Children of Light.

These games are all great examples of everything I hate about mobile gaming: full of incessant ads for microtransactions. Literally every mobile game I’ve ever played (outside of FDroid) is this way.

Plus you need a controller anyway, at which point you might as well just carry a handheld ging system.

You could buy whatever your favorite Anbernic device for $50 and have access to a library of thousands of fun ad-free games.

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TootSweet@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Jesus. People get big mad about this stuff.

The problem isn’t mobile games, and it’s not console games, and it’s not PC games. It’s the profit motive and corporations and enshittification. And there’s plenty of that going on in games for mobile, console, and PC. (And, for that matter, TTRPGs. And it’s not like the 300 different collectors editions of Monopoly released every year aren’t enshittification at play.)

Addictive gotcha mechanics are shitty when they’re tied to microtransactions. Even when not tied to microtransactions, I think they can still be shitty depending on the specific circumstances, and it’s definitely wise to responsibly manage your (and/or your children’s) engagement to not cause other problems in your(/their) life. But is addictiveness in a video game inherently a bad thing? I don’t think so. All games cause dopamine squirts whether it’s Pong or a slot machine. That’s kinda the point of games. There are plenty of Open Source games out there that cause big addictive dopamine squirts. (Mindustry, anyone?) And such games aren’t made to milk whales. They’re made because someone wanted to create and play such a game.

Don’t be talking too much smack about shovelware! Low-quality games create their own vibes. Some are accidental masterpieces. Both of my favorite two YouTube gaming content creators do a lot of their content on really low-quality games. This series got me to buy Radiation Island and I had a great time playing it. And here is a great video on all the shitty official games based on the movie Avatar.

“Gaming is as much about socializing as playing” is an awesome outlook to have on gaming! Addictiveness in games can be… concerning. But sometimes particular games are the key by which your kid can be involved in peer group. I’m not saying that automatically trumps any downsides and you should let your kid spend $∞ on Fortnight skins or whatever. But I think probably in most cases a balancing act is superior to a hard “yes” or “no”.

I should probably specify that I’m admittedly an old fart who doesn’t know shit about mobile gaming. (The only mobile games I play are Open Source ones on F-Droid.) And the only modern console I have is a Switch, and I don’t have any plans to get one soon. I’ve played a lot of Breath of the Wild, though. And a fair amount of Tears of the Kingdom.

Some final thoughts:

Open Source gaming is awesome.

The way they’re doing anti-cheat on PC is fucked-up.

But so is the way they lock down consoles and phones.

Hack your games. Hack your consoles. (If you don’t hack it, you don’t own it.) Get your kids interested in hacking stuff.

…responsibly, of course.

Play games with your kids! (And not just the ones you want to play.)
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- RightHandOfIkaros@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I would just like to mention that it is called “gacha” not “gotcha.”
  
  “Gacha” is short for the Japanese term gachapon, which means “capsule toy.” You remember gumball machines? You put a quarter in and twist the handle and a gumball comes out. Gachapon is like that, but with a small plastic ball with a random toy inside. Those are less common than the gumball machines, but there were also some that had sticker/temporary tattoo sheets and those hard candies that looks like fruits(mostly bananas).
  
  Gachapon is a bit different from gambling. Gambling comes with the inherent understanding that you have a chance to lose. With gachapon, you always get exactly what you are paying for: a random capsule toy. You just don’t get to pick which one you get. With gachapon, you always “win,” there is no chance that your money is spent and you get nothing in return. This is why games with gacha mechanics makes duplicates of characters or items useful. Whatever you get is still useful to you, even if you don’t get what you wanted.
  
  I think you already understand the negative aspects of gachapon, but I just wanted to add that little bit of information.
  
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- GrantUsEyes@lemmy.zip ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  The only mobile games I play are Open Source ones on F-Droid.
  
  Can you share some recomendations? I’m looking for something to play on my phone :)
  
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  - NotProLemmy@lemmy.ml ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Check out Mindustry.
    
    It’s a cross platform (steam included) game, that is an RTS and tower defense. It’s FOSS and has a great modding community.
    
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  - TootSweet@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Roughly in order of how much I enjoy them from most to least. (Not that the later ones are bad. Just that they’re more low-key.)
    
    Mindustry is amazing, but as I mentioned above, really really addictive. (The commercial game it’s most often compared to is Factorio.)
    
    Then there’s Shattered Pixel Dungeon. Amazing dungeon crawler.
    
    Endless Sky is a great space mercantile sim.
    
    Luanti is a Minecraft clone.
    
    Unciv is a turn-based civilization development game.
    
    And if you’re wanting to do emulation, there’s Lemuroid. Also, EasyRPG, an engine for playing RPG Maker games like Yume Nikki. Oh, FreeDoom is a great implementation of Doom for Android.
    
    Those are the ones that’ll keep your attention for a good long time. There are tons of much simpler games that are still fun like Frozen Bubble and Hyper Rogue. And plenty of games that I haven’t really gotten into very much but that people really seem to like Dungeon Crawl Stone Soup.
    
    Man. There are a lot now that I’m listing them out. Lol.
    
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- atomicpoet@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Thank you. 🙏
  
  You’re the first person here speaking actual sense.
  
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ampersandrew@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I’m not sure why you’re on a crusade to convince people to like mobile games. I’ve always got my phone on me, and I frequently find myself on a subway ride that’s too short to bother with a Steam Deck. Mobile games would fit in great there. My options are pretty terrible. For the kinds of games I like to play, the only ones that actually have mobile versions are basically digital versions of board games and a small handful of roguelikes. I tend to just read on the subway instead. It’s not for lack of trying. The library just sucks, and it offers less value than other places I can buy games. Your daughter is playing games designed to keep you “engaged” and addicted with all of the greatest tricks of the gambling industry; you can find the GDC talks with a quick search on your favorite search engine.

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- atomicpoet@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Whenever I see an echo chamber where people parrot the same shallow talking points—no nuance, no real analysis—the contrarian in me kicks in.
  
  You claim there’s “no library” on mobile, but even a basic look at the stats and available titles proves otherwise.
  
  If you actually want fun, premium mobile games with zero microtransactions, they’re not hard to find. You just have to look beyond the surface—and actually try.
  
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  - ampersandrew@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    I’m not parroting anything. I’ve looked. Sure, sometimes you get a port of XCOM or Slay the Spire, but then it’s not going to carry over progress back to my PC, where I’m more comfortable playing at home, and my reluctance to buy a version of the game like that explains why there isn’t enough money in trying to port the kinds of games that I like to mobile. Sometimes a game has a port, but it fell out of compatibility with modern Android and never got updated; and let me tell you, that’s a great way to convince me to stop looking. Even crazier is when something like Fire Emblem Heroes happens, because it’s adapting a traditional handheld/console game into an interface that makes way more sense for controlling the game, but it’s not a proper version of that series; it’s a gacha game. If I have any kind of extended anticipated desire to game on the go, my Steam Deck is just a better answer than trying to find the few games I would like that also got Android versions, because I’m going to spend more time playing them at home anyway.
    
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Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I don’t think of gaming as socializing - that’s your daughter’s metric.

Not all game players are the same, which is why there are so many different categories of games.

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- Quazatron@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  To me it is the inverse of socializing. It’s an escape to a world where I don’t have to deal with people.
  
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garretble@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
I just feel bad for a lot of kids because maybe their phone or tablet has the game they want but often they are playing using just the touchscreen and that interface sucks.

It just does.

I get that kids get used to it, but it’s like getting used to being kicked in the nuts when you have the option of not being kicked in the nuts.

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specialseaweed@sh.itjust.works ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
My 13 and 15 year olds are PC first gamers, then consoles, then mobile. I raised them that way on purpose because I wanted to avoid tablet and phone screens. I could control access better that way.

And yea, also because I’m a pc and console gamer and wanted to play my favorite games with them.

The older one has started playing mobile games more often and yea, it’s Genshin and Honkai. That kid was always in love with Fire Emblem, so Honkai makes sense to me. The stories are all kind of the same.

A friend stayed with us for a few days and they have a 12 and 10 year old. I have every console imaginable, PCs on big screens, and they never left their tablets.

I think once kids get on the tablet/phone/mobile games, they don’t really leave. I don’t know that I would have either.

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- BroBot9000@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  Yes cause they are designed to be addictive and maximize the profitability with addictive content like loot boxes and fomo tactics to push micro transactions.
  
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  - atomicpoet@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Once again, choice is on your side. There are hundreds of thousands of games on mobile, many that are not service-based.
    
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Ibuthyr@lemmy.wtf ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Please don’t get me wrong. I’m sure you’re a loving parent and just want what’s best for your daughter. But what you’re essentially doing, is giving your kid pocket money to go play slot machines at the local dive bar.

The reason why mobile phone gaming is so bad, is because there are barely any actual games. The reason your daughter thinks it’s fun to play candy crush is not because the game itself is good, it’s because the game makes her addicted to it. This is bad. Really bad. This will have consequences on how her brain handles dopamine. Please, for the love of your family, get her off that shit immediately.

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- atomicpoet@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I think I know my kid better than you, a random Internet stranger who’s never met her before in her life. And consequently, has no understanding of what her actual needs are.
  
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  - EncryptKeeper@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Yes the needs of your very special child are so unfathomably different from all the other children in the planet lol
    
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Sanctus@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Sky is fun but you know it hooks you with those candles. The only evolution you make clear here is they’ve gotten better at disguising the loot boxes and cash grabs.

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linrilang@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Honestly, we all had ‘our thing’ growing up that our parents thought was silly or a waste of time. It’s just the circle of gaming life.

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owenfromcanada@lemmy.ca ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
1000032209

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- borari@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  I feel like I’m watching a gen x transform into a boomer live in this thread right now.
  
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FelixCress@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
If the Candy Crush is a quality for you, I feel sorry for yourself. Also comparison to a console is flawed.

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PerfectDark@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Mobile gaming, on Android, is an interesting space right now. I used to buy flagship phones exclusively, as high spec as I could just…because I could. I played a few emulated Nintendo Switch games on them, as well as the odd Game Pass title (with a telescoping GameSir Xbox mounted controller thing) and then I realized I really had no use for them. I rarely played, and my most recent phone purchases have been mid-range.

That said, so much is now possible on Android. You can emulate everything from Switch to PS3, use pretty front-ends to use as a launcher station (a quick note of appreciation for the totally FOSS option - Lemuroid), and as unbelievable as it still is to me, you can even play full PC games like GTA V using winlator

The scene for Android emulation is incredibly dramatic with frequent in-fighting, but also pretty impressive from a technical standpoint. It’s not going to be everyone’s cup of tea - and that’s fine, but the mobile scene which isn’t just gatcha games hooking kids on the Play Store is so varied. Then you’ve got actually impressive games like DREDGE getting a Android release, replete with custom builds and changes for the Android system (no lazy ports!). Heck, even No Man’s Sky is coming to Android soon!

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yoriaiko@lemmy.blahaj.zone ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
Super fancy shinny quad AAAA game with photorealistic (2025 edition) graphics that You can talk about on dedicated forums, that maybe 5 other persons in Your area ever heard of. vs Common, whatever graphic, cube themed, low poly game with music in midi… that whole school talk about and every yt influencer too.

It’s all about blindly following the fashion. Again.

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Screen_Shatter@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
The potential has always been there for phone games, but its far a few between that are worthwhile. Touch screens suck for controls, really limits to a few good genres, but the stores suck too for any form of support. I’m still bitter that they updated iOs and not xcom so I lost that game and couldn’t get a refund. Most good phone games are ports though, and otherwise so riddled with poor design and mtx its not worth the time. Honestly, the buggest disappointment with phones is that games could be awesome on them and they’re not.

Kids are easily entertained by all kinds of arguably crappy things. Similarly mine has access to tons of great games but will spend weird amounts of time on some janky web based crap. Its not a sign its good, he just has no taste cause he’s an inexperienced kid. I similarly wouldnt look at his choice of mismatched clothes and chicken nuggets for every possible meal and think “wow that stuff’s great!” Maturity and judgement take awhile to develop, so I dont think its bad that he does that, but roblox is still utter garbage no matter how much him and his friends love it. A lot of people love garbage - it doesn’t make it good.

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- borari@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  
  Kids are easily entertained by all kinds of arguably crappy things.
  
  Guys traditional games AND mobile games are going the way of the dodo because my 6 month old plays with their fisher price phone more than our phones or tablets. - OP
  
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- atomicpoet@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
  The inverse is just as true. Just because you and many “gamers” accept a rigid canon of what counts as “quality” doesn’t mean those games are actually good.
  
  Go to any retro gaming board and you’ll hear the NES era hailed as a golden age. I’ve played nearly all those games—and apart from a few true gems, most of them don’t hold up.
  
  Yet people still pay hundreds of dollars for cartridges like Action 52 and treat them like holy grails, even though we all know that some of the worst mobile games today are technically better.
  
  The truth is, I don’t think the average gamer really knows quality. I think most of their taste is just parroting what someone else told them to like.
  
  Quality deserves to be judged on its own merits—not nostalgia or consensus.
  
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  - Screen_Shatter@lemmy.world ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
    Its the age old subjective vs objective criteria, and for certain people of different perspectives one will outweigh the other. Nostalgia is very subjective - most of those classics are called classics because they were fantastic at the time of release. They dont hold up today on a technical level, so objectively their quality by today’s standards is dirt, but whether or not someone still finds it entertaining or fun to play is entirely dependent on that person. The only way to measure that is to take an average of the judgemental reactions of many people - essentially consensus.
    
    The problem with phone games is that objectively the large majority of them are poorly made, with subversive mechanics meant to manipulate the casual audience into spending on them. Their goal isn’t fun so much as addiction. It works because it is so largely available to a massive casual audience. The large majority of these people wouldnt bother to purchase a console or a PC for gaming. I’ve met people who actively say they think video games are a waste of time but they’re on level 1000 of candy crush and spending money on power ups. These people do not visit gaming forums and are not gaming enthusiasts, they dont see an issue, nor would they care if you point it out. Subjectively, they like it, they’re having fun, and that’s fine, but that is not the audience you are speaking to here. For this crowd the issues are readily apparent. Its immediately obvious to use why these games are balanced poorly, why ads are shoved in our faces constantly, why the constant updates are anti-consumer. An enthusiast audience will always be more critical of such practices that the larger casual crowd easily ignores.
    
    Last time I went to mcdonalds it was because of that same kid who loves phone games. He was so excited for chicken nuggets. I tried one, it was horrible. I choked down a burger that is an insult to burgers. No food enthusiast would ever recommend this, no self respecting chef would ever endorse this, and I can easily make better food at home for cheaper. But they’ve served millions, and have franchises world wide! People love it, so it must be great! It sure as fuck is not, and I certainly have the capacity to be a more discerning consumer with that just like I am with video games or any other interest.
    
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borf@lemmynsfw.com ⁨2⁩ ⁨weeks⁩ ago
My kid loves roblox because its controls are pretty much completely ideal for her ipad and apple pencil

Roblox is entirely unplayable to me because its control schemes inevitably break all my millennial expectations and I don’t have great internet connectivity at home anymore. It hurts me and makes me angry, lol. ANY game that properly works with an Xbox controller is superior for my personal experience because of decades of that paradigm. Touchscreen controls are death

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