Electric school buses are a breath of fresh air for children | Nearly $1B in federal funding could help clean up the unequal health impacts of diesel pollution.

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• Kraven_the_Hunter@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  As a child in the 80’s I remember my gag reflex kicking in every time I walked to my bus. The air was so bad that my body physically refused to let me take in a breath.

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  • ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    FWIW diesel-powered vehicles are much cleaner now than they were in the '80s. Diesel fuel is now sulfur-free, and since 2004 progressively stiffer EPA regulations have reduced the NOx and particulate matter output of diesel engines by orders of magnitude. Unfortunately, though, “cleaner” in this case does not include a reduction in greenhouse gases - in fact, school bus engines of today spit out more greenhouse gases per mile than did buses of the 1980s. This is because the EPA diesel regulations limit permitted emissions based on horsepower-miles, so an engine with twice the horsepower (like today’s bus engines compared with older engines) is permitted to emit twice as much junk.

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• Transporter_Room_3@startrek.website ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I expect soon I will see “diesel parties” where parents bring their kids to inhale diesel fumes from a running lifted pickup in a closed off garage.

  Similar to how people I know advertised their gas stoves to everyone they know to bring their children to have an “illegal gas cooked meal” on weekends…

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  • arin@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Wish every politician gets first dibs in these diesel parties, preferably a nice closed garage with excellent weather sealing for efficiency

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• BeautifulMind@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  For those of you who haven’t been in a school bus in years, do you remember how loud they are? Reducing diesel pollution is a win, but being in a less-noisy environment for however long each day is also a win.

  As a cyclist and occasional user of public transit, I really like the idea of most buses eventually being at least plug-in hybrid-electric if not entirely battery electric. I’m curious about the mass difference between a diesel, diesel-electric, and battery-electric bus (after all, the heavier the vehicle, the harder it is on the road). I expect some of the fuel-and-maintenance-cost-savings from the bus fleet will have to go to road maintenance in the end, but I’d rather spend money that way (locally) than spend it on pumping fresh hot carbon out of foreign wellheads

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  • fatalError@lemmy.sdf.org ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Will people stop trying to put batteries in everything already? They are heavy, slow to charge, unsustainable, cause fires that can’t be extinguished and are affected by extreame weather(especially cold).

    Public transit runs on predefined routes, for that you can setup trams(best option) or trolleybuses(no need for rails). I don’t care that you think the wires look ugly, they are objectively the better solution.

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    • frezik@midwest.social ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Almost like we’re still putting money into research to solve all those problems. Much of what you cite is overblown, and what remains valid isn’t going to stay that way.

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    • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Do you not understand what a school buses job is? That route changes every year and not everyone lives where you can expect kids to be able walk to a high traffic bus stop.

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    • CommanderCloon@lemmy.ml ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      No technology ever comes out free of caveats, and trams, even though they are way better than busses, require years of public work on the infrastructure. That job should be started ASAP, but letting diesel run in the meanwhile is pointless

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  • Duamerthrax@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Diesel-Electric Hybrid should also be considered as an option depending on the use case of the service area. As a hybrid, the bus wouldn’t need to run it’s diesel engine at the school pickup point, would have the the benefit of regenerative braking, and overall have better fuel economy, emissions, and longevity of the engine.

    This would be beneficial to areas that are too rural and have too long of routes for the batteries to last and areas that have a lot of cold weather might not want to risk freezing their kids because the batteries suddenly have to both drive and heat the whole bus. Cities could be all electric because the routes are much shorter and overall be operating at lower speeds. Also, much more stop-and-go, so the regen braking will really shine.

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• FluffyPotato@lemm.ee ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Why not just make normal public transit? Like school busses aren’t a thing here so I took the regular bus to school like everyone else, it’s a lot more versatile too since people can take it to more places.

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  • DoomBot5@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    School busses don’t have adult strangers and other issues tied to them. They only go from people’s homes to school and back.

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    • FluffyPotato@lemm.ee ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      What issues do adult strangers cause? And what are the other issues? Also legs work pretty good to get to a bus station, I hear kids have those.

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  • Mamertine@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The article talked a lot about school buses in rural areas. Mass Transit isn’t a thing in most rural areas.

    In urban cities, yes that’s a feasible idea. Most people in the USA live in places where mass transit isn’t feasible.

    We are a nation of car drivers who bought into the dream of having a house on a large lot in the suburbs. Mass Transit exists, but in the burb it’s generally a parking lot where you take a bus to your job downtown.

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    • AngryCommieKender@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Most people in the US absolutely live in areas where Mass Transit should be an option. Like 80% of us live on either coast, and both coasts are basically just one continuous city at this point. Sure we call the areas different names, because that’s where the city started, but the coasts are effectively two massive cities that should absolutely have robust mass transit.

      That other 20% that inhabits the other 98% of the land in this country, yeah not feasible for mass transit outside of the bigger cities.

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    • FluffyPotato@lemm.ee ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Yea, my whole point is that stick a bunch of bus lanes there instead of having a separate 2 times a day bus for children.

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  • set_secret@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    that doesn’t fix the toxic diesil pollution does it?

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    • barsoap@lemm.ee ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Did you know that regular buses also come in electrical variants?

      Even more shockingly: So do trams and metros.

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    • FluffyPotato@lemm.ee ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Neither do school busses since only kids take those. If like most people took the bus instead of drove that would help immensely even if it was the most polluting bus ever.

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  • bluewing@lemm.ee ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Best you start walking now. School could be a mere 60 miles/96K one way from your home, (even if you live “in town” it’s still a 2 mile walk to school). Oh and the temperature outside is -35C this morning. Good luck! And yes, where I live that’s how far we need to bus students due to low population densities. And also yes, the winter time temperatures do get that low - it’s been around -15F/-26C every morning for the last 2 weeks. Toss in a nice amount of wind, and frostbite can occur in a mere handful of minutes on bare skin.

    School buses also ensure all students arrive at the same time. Usually a 10 minute window. It also limits possible accidents, with young children in particular, crossing uncontrolled intersections in busy neighborhoods. Since school buses drop their passengers off at the door.

    Lots of reasons to use school buses because not everyone lives within walking distance in quiet places or somewhere warm.

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    • FluffyPotato@lemm.ee ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Schools is canceled if it’s -20C for 1-6 grade and -25C for higher grades here, I’m assuming that is also a thing in the US. And I have walked to school at -25C before only to walk back because it was closed, I think I was in 3th grade. It’s not some deadly arctic weather you make it out to be, just dress properly.

      Also all of that is pretty irrelevant since I was saying you should have public transit that people can just use, including kids for getting to school, not that kids have to walk the whole way to school. Not just special busses children use twice a day.

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• esc27@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I could see this fit in perfectly with normal bus routes, but field trips and athletic events could be a challenge, especially for rural schools. Nothing that could not be planned around but possibly an extra cost (e.g. charter buses) or needing to keep the kids entertained while charging on the road.

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  • mosiacmango@lemm.ee ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I bet with the maintenance and fuel savings, the occasional charter would be cheaper over the lifetime of the bus.

    If not, replace your 30 diesel fleet with 25 electric and 5 diesel. Still a big win.

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    • LazaroFilm@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Yep I bet they’ll keep a handful of diesel trucks for specific occasions and emergencies.

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• Bgugi@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  The money will purchase more than 2,700 vehicles to shuttle 7 million students in 37 states

  Big buses…

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  • OhmsLawn@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Good catch lol. I’m trying to picture a 2600 passenger bus. That’s more than any train I’ve ever been on. It would have to be the size of an ocean liner.

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    • Notyou@sopuli.xyz ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I am assuming they are adding multiple trips a day. My old bus dropped off elementary, middle, and high school. Some drivers even did after school drop offs. I doubt they mean 2600 buses moving 7 million people a day.

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• CADmonkey@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I remember the school buses in one high school I went to running on propane. It’s not as clean as electric, but it’s cleaner than diesel… and at the time, an electric school bus would have been expensive, if not outright science fiction.

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  • bionicjoey@lemmy.ca ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Now that’s what I call “Propane Accessories”!

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    • QuandaleDingle@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Image

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  • GluWu@lemm.ee ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    There were a number of electric busses in the early 1900s. There are plenty of large electric people and material movers. They’ve been used for a hundred years now for underground mining.

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    • someguy3@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      You mean trolley buses with overhead power lines? Doesn’t work so well for school routes that change.

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  • someguy3@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    A bunch converted during the 70s oil embargo. I’m surprised it didn’t stick around

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• rivermonster@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I love EVs and truly believe they’re the future. But holy shit what must these monsters weigh? And, what’s the environmental impact considering our current shitty battery tech?

  I still support moving this direction because it creates the necessary infrastructure that can be leveraged by newer battery tech. And likely even with the batteries, it’s better than diesel.

  But the new batteried to make them lighter and less polluting can’t come soon enough.

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  • Gigan@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    our current shitty battery tech

    I think our battery tech is the best it’s ever been, unless you’re comparing it to sci-fi

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    • rivermonster@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      There’s research into many different formulations that don’t use nearly as much (or in some cases any) toxic materials, solid-state batteries, etc.

      Are you taking the critique personally? If so, that’s a misunderstanding. It’s not an attack on you.

      It’s simply a fact there’s a LONG way to go on battery tech, and anything we can do to increase power density while decreasing weight is critical to making them more environmentally friendly and sustainable.

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  • Grimy@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The current environmental impact is none if you compare it to literally shipping oil from the middle east every day just to burn it.

    You love EVs yet are parroting oil barons talking point. I’m skeptical.

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    • rivermonster@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I still support moving this direction because it creates the necessary infrastructure that can be leveraged by newer battery tech. And likely even with the batteries, it’s better than diesel.

      I don’t know how to help you read.

      You sound like a demagog who feels attacked when faced with facts or genuine issues. Advocating for improvements to the technology isn’t being anti-EV or even anti-battery. LOL. #faceplam&sigh

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• FlyingSquid@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Republicans are against it because they think children should be breathing diesel fumes and the ones who get ill from it didn’t try hard enough.

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  • NickwithaC@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Republicans are against it because oil lobbyists who would lose money on it told them to be and the bribe money is nice.

    “Fuck them kids.”

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  • occhionaut@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    at this point i believe you

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• Obstagoon@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  How is this gonna work when electric cars won’t even run in icy weather

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  • cogman@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    1. Electric cars run just fine in icy weather

    2. Heatpumps, which work a lot better for larger buses than smaller buses.

    Bus routes are generally short, fixed, and planned. They are literally the perfect place for an EV.

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    • Brkdncr@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      You can generate a lot of heat with fuel-based heaters. Many buses already use these.

      Makes sense to have an aux fuel heat source for EV buses that may deal with cold climate a few weeks out of the year.

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    • workerONE@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      AAA says that EV batteries tend to lose power faster in cold weather, getting as little as 50-60% of their advertised range.

      Charging stations around the city are over capacity… Once their car is finally plugged in, it takes longer than usual to power up. “…They tell you it’s fast, but then it takes two hours to charge your car,” Marcus Campbell tells NBC Chicago.

      pcmag.com/…/dont-buy-a-tesla-chicagos-ev-drivers-…

      This weather is a worst case scenario and I doubt schools would be open anyway but sounds like EVs are having a tough time.

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  • ironhydroxide@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    “How is this gonna work when I have no fucking clue what I’m talking about”

    Yeah. About that. Go read a bit about electric cars instead of scare headlines in the news. Hell try one for yourself, you might like it.

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  • CADmonkey@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Look at this guy, who has never had to start a diesel engine when it’s -20°F outside.

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    • ChickenLadyLovesLife@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Shit, they’re hard to start when it’s *+*20°F outside. I’m a school bus driver and that was the exact temperature this morning when one third of our fleet wouldn’t start up.

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  • frezik@midwest.social ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    stnonline.com/…/6-myths-about-electric-school-bus…

    "…according to a 2013 SAE study, the average school bus route is less than 32 miles, with over 99% of routes being under 78 miles. "

    Busses exist with a 155 mile range. This is a non issue.

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  • BassTurd@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I grew up and rode the bus to school in Iowa. There were multiple days in my youth that local schools were closed because the diesel busses wouldn’t turn over. The guy that maintained ours used Amsoil, so our buses worked, but cold weather doesn’t only hurt electric vehicles.

    There were reports over this past week over people having difficulties charging their electric vehicles due to the cold temps (-30°F wind chill and worse). All of the schools in the state were closed as well as many businesses.

    Basically, it’s a self correcting issue. If it’s too cold to charge a battery, it’s too cold to have school.

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    • BeautifulMind@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I grew up and rode the bus to school in Iowa.

      I rode the bus in Alaska. The buses ran well below -50f. It turns out that it’s not that hard to keep your batteries and oilpans heated if you bother putting plug-in heaters (literally, electric blankets for the purpose) in your fleet vehicles, winterize your vehicles, and plug them in when it’s cold.

      I get that it’s uncommon to be that cold-prepared in places that don’t expect to see temperatures below -20 for more than a few days in a given calendar year- at some point, it makes sense to just call it off when it’s that cold. After all, do all (or even most of) the kids have proper clothes to deal with real cold?

      Really cold weather can be adapted to, it’s just that when you don’t need it that often it makes sense not to spend the resources doing it.

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  • Apollo2323@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Most schools don’t open when is icy or extremely cold out. So your point is useless.

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  • LinuxSBC@lemm.ee ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    A combination of heaters and being mostly deployed in warmer environments, I’d assume.

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• BaardFigur@lemmy.world ⁨9⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  How about the pollution from the wheels? Sure it’s slightly better, but not by a lot.

  Also 1$ in funding where exactly? Sweden?

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