Canada to announce all new cars must be zero emissions by 2035

Comments

• bobgusford@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Love this, but fucking hate having to deal with all the push back from Polievre, the Conservatives, Alberta, etc. Just hate seeing political ads masquerading as polls, or oil and gas companies trying to greenwash themselves, or the endless amount of idiotic comments from people who still don’t believe in climate change.

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• GameEnder@reddthat.com ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Whole Canada has the political will to make this an actual reality.

  I don’t think these kill all internal combustion engine by a set date policies are going to really work out. We’re still in the “incentivize people stage” of switching not the “kill it off internal combustion engine completely stage”. Most people don’t buy new cars cuz they’re just too expensive and there aren’t a lot of used EV’s that are affordable out there currently.

  And before anyone says I don’t get the whole thing. I own an EV, I think there’s quite a ways to go to actually convince people to get them.

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  • n2burns@lemmy.ca ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    We’re talking about 11 years in the future, and there’s a ramp up included in the legislation. That’s a long time, 11 years ago Tesla started selling the Model S, basically kicking off the current EV industry.

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    • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Eleven years is no time at all.

      EV simply will not be ready by then.

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  • Frozengyro@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Definitely. A country who does this will be like Cuba is with all the old vehicles, and people doing everything they can to maintain them.

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    • azertyfun@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      That’s a good thing in many ways. Environmentally a huge chunk of the problem lies in the manufacturing of new cars, and it’s even worse with electric ones. Current ICE should be kept running for decades, not replaced at all costs.

      Now of course you then get into spikier debates when you look at who actually bears the cost of the transition. When poor people with street parking end up subsidizing rich people’s electric cars (as is currently the case where I live), we have a problem IMO. Not a new one; people who don’t drive have been getting shafted for decades. But now it’s getting worse!

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  • AA5B@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Policies like this are not to help the consumer but to push the manufacturers. A typical major redesign is every 5-6 years so this gives them about 2 generations for each model. It gives them some time to ramp up but no more excuses. Most importantly, if that’s all they’re allowed to sell then they need to figure out how to make them sellable.

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  • GiddyGap@lemm.ee ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    I think that really depends where you are. If you’re in the US, sure. The US is far behind on infrastructure. If you’re in Europe, it’s much more viable. They have a lot more infrastructure (including much better public transportation) and EVs are actually viable as a replacement.

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    • frezik@midwest.social ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      It’s fine for 90% of what people do with cars in the US. People in the US seem to like roadtrips a lot more than Europeans, though, and that’s where infrastructure needs to improve.

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• ikidd@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Yah, this is something conceived in a urban environment with high population density, and relatively warm weather, like Vancouver and Toronto.

  It ignores about 95% of the country that has no mass transit and hits -20 and lower for 6 months of the year. There will need to be absolutely massive investments in technology for cold weather EV and power infrastructure to deliver a huge uptick in charging power across a massively spread out country. And our sources for renewable energy are pretty much used up, hydro hasn’t got a lot of possibilities left. Solar is awesome, but not a great producer this far north. Wind is only viable in a few localized spots and then you hae to get the power to the users from there.

  Typical virtue signalling bullshit that’s not even vaguely realistic.

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  • maynarkh@feddit.nl ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    The reason you know nothing will be done about this is that they didn’t set a small goal for the next few years, it’s another one of those multi-decade lofty goals towards which nothing will be done and at the end will be said it’s unrealistic. Like when Germany said the same.

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  • nexusband@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Technically, HVO diesel engines can run without emissions. So “EV only” is not necessarily what this means…

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  • Soleos@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    If they set a 10 year goal it may take 20 years to hit 80% of goals, if they set a 20 year goal it’ll take 40 years to hit 50%, if they set a 50 year goal…

    Nobody thinks this is a realistic goal, but the target gives a concrete number to set a mandate on which actually pragmatic policies, funding projects, and incentives can hang their hat on to keep the ball rolling.

    With big infrastructure developments, nobody wants to buy into realistic goals, it’s too costly, and there’s never enough political will. You set overly ambitious goals so you can get people to buy in and then the project is too big to fail, so you end up paying what it actually costs, and you try to mitigate waste, unanticipated problems, corruption, and poor management along the way.

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  • themelm@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    We’ll just have to carry gas generators on our electric trucks to drive to work in the bush I guess.

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  • Poem_for_your_sprog@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Too late anyways. Bottoms up.

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• Psiczar@aussie.zone ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I’d like to say better late than never, but in this case late may end up with the same result as never. Once the ice caps have melted, they can’t melt any further.

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  • nomecks@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Sure they can. Look at Venus.

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    • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      And if you read about Venus you’ll understand the greenhouse effect as observed on Venus isn’t applicable to earth.

      Greenhouse Effect is a political football with no meaning.

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• iconic_admin@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Does break dust count as an emission?

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  • Pretzilla@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    *brake

    And it should, it’s fairly toxic. Fortunately EV’s primarily and almost exclusively use regen.

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    • n2burns@lemmy.ca ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Then there’s tire and road wear, which increase substantially with the heavier weight of EVs.

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  • AA5B@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Of the direct operational sources of pollution:

    • co2 - none
    • ozone and exhaust particulates - none
    • brake dust - almost none
    • oil and fuel leaks - none
    • tire dust - 20% more

    EVs may not be perfect but they’re a HUGE improvement.

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    • wewbull@feddit.uk ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Even the 20% more tyre wear… That should mean I need to replace tyres faster. I’ve had one new set in 5 years on my EV (at about year 4). My old car was every other year. Sure compounds change, but I’m just not seeing more tyre wear.

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  • storcholus@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    In the new euro 7 revision standard it does

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  • PopcornTin@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Don’t look at what powers the power plants. Just sit back and think you’re enjoying your zero emissions cars

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    • ItsMeSpez@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Perfect is the enemy of good.

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    • wewbull@feddit.uk ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      No, please. Take a look.

      grid.iamkate.com

      As I type at 11.30 am

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  • frezik@midwest.social ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    You mean the brakes that, if driven properly, are hardly ever used in an EV, and may last the life of the vehicle?

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• sj_zero ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  It's because the Liberals are about to lose badly because their policies are not sustainable.

  People need home heating, transportation, food, and housing to not die. Those aren't luxuries.

  • NocturnalMorning@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Yeah, it’s tough bcz having a habitable planet isn’t a luxury either.

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    • sj_zero ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Most people don't know anything about Canada, even people who live there. Most Canadians live in one of two megacities. They've never been to lynn lake, meadow lake, fort McMurray, fort st. John, or pickle lake. The wealth is extracted from these places, but with 0 understanding of what the country is like, particularly in February.

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    • QuadratureSurfer@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      I think we need to be realistic about what will actually happen. Climate change on the scale we’re seeing isn’t going to make the planet inhabitable.

      What will happen is that it will be a more hostile environment to live in. Climate change is resulting in larger droughts/famines in areas that aren’t used to it, as well as increased storms/flooding in other areas. Forest fires will get worse. Storms will get worse, species will die off, and if we don’t have enough food to feed large cities, many will die and governments will collapse.

      It won’t be the end of the world, but the world will not be the same because of it.

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  • topinambour_rex@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    No it’s just they follow a global trend. Europe will stop too to sell mass produced cars with fuel. If it is under 1000 cars/model they can still use fuel.

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    • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      So Ford will just split into smaller companies, become a source for engineering and manufacturing, with the smaller companies leasing design and manufacturing facilities.

      I’m just an average idiot, but I can see how they’ll sidestep this stuff.

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  • Kecessa@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    And because people mix up federal and provincial powers

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• bratosch@lemm.ee ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Is that no emissions at all along the cars life from production to scrap? Cus EVs today are in large just virtue vehicles.

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  • jonesy@aussie.zone ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Interested to see where that data comes from, as looking at the lifetime emissions of an EV vs an ICE vehicle inclusive of fuel EVs are generally significantly lower emissions. If you’re only considering the emissions associated with the manufacture of the vehicles, EVs do result in more GHG, but very quickly once both vehicles are actually in use the benefits of EVs become apparent.

    EPA.gov

    MIT

    New York Times

    University of Technology Sydney

    Cambridge University

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    • Enkers@sh.itjust.works ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      While somewhat misguided, they do still kinda have a point: Car centric culture really does have a high environmental cost regardless of power source. Switching from ICE to EV is a good start, but we also need to address urban sprawl, and push for better mass transit as well as cycling infrastructure.

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    • AnneBonny@lemmy.dbzer0.com ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Interested to see where that data comes from, as looking at the lifetime emissions of an EV vs an ICE vehicle inclusive of fuel EVs are generally significantly lower emissions.

      I’m working from memory, but I think I have heard their claim before, and the data it is based on is probably 20 years out of date. The proportion of electricity produced by methods like solar and wind did not used to be what it is today, and the production method of electricity plays a significant role in lifecycle analysis of electric vehicles.

      The Cambridge link you provided notes that electric vehicles are not better for the environment in Poland because most of their electricity is produced by burning coal. It also compares France and the UK, and notes the difference between emissions because of the different production mix of electricity.

      Under current conditions, driving an electric car is better for the climate than conventional petrol cars in 95% of the world, the study finds.

      The only exceptions are places like Poland, where electricity generation is still mostly based on coal.

      Average lifetime emissions from electric cars are up to 70% lower than petrol cars in countries like Sweden and France (which get most of their electricity from renewables and nuclear), and around 30% lower in the UK.

      cam.ac.uk/…/electric-cars-better-for-climate-in-9…

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  • Fisk400@feddit.nu ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Are you saying that the emission resulting from an EVs production is the same as the emission from and olds car production and lifetime of fuel usage combined?

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    • bratosch@lemm.ee ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Production of batteries, handling discarded batteries, breaking of minerals FOR the batteries, and producing the electricity have all been shown to be worse for the environment than than the entire life of a traditional car

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  • franklin@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Dependable and available public transit is the answer to our transportation needs with electric vehicles substituted in areas where they will not work.

    But absolutely public transit first because electric cars cannot be the backbone of our system.

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    • GBU_28@lemm.ee ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      In Canada?

      Obviously the metro areas and immediate surrounding suburbs can improve, but it’s a huge country

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    • BearOfaTime@lemm.ee ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

      Hahahaha public transit.

      Have you looked at the energy/environmental costs of trains or busses?

      Hint: they both consume the same energy fully loaded or empty, as a start.

      And train infrastructure is a massive user of concrete, steel, copper, etc.

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  • bobgusford@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Carbon tax deals with industries that creates emissions by taxing the fuels that cause the emissions. All businesses involved in making EVs and EV parts can choose between using taxed GhG-emitting fuels, or cheaper renewable sources. Free markets will pick the winner, but at least all winners will be producing EVs only.

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  • mondo_brondo@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    What makes you say that?

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• Lophostemon@aussie.zone ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  I’ve got a TOPSECRIT Kickstarter project going that uses (shhhh!) sails on cars. ZERO emissions, baby. Come sign up !

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• therealjcdenton@lemmy.zip ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  How many cars are affordable at this point which offer 0 emissions?

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  • PopcornTin@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Affordable to them.

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  • JoBo@feddit.uk ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    You don’t have to buy a new car.

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  • frezik@midwest.social ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Depends on what’s affordable for you, but by 2035, probably quite a lot more.

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• YeetPics@mander.xyz ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Do tire particles emitted from wheels count as emissions?

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• ieightpi@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  [deleted]

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  • AA5B@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Looks like Canada’s grid has damn close to 0% coal and rapidly being phased out

    Image

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  • morbidcactus@lemmy.ca ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Quebec is almost entirely hydro, Ontario is primarily nuclear and hydro, there are no operating coal plants in Ontario last I checked, just some gas plants. Those 2 provinces alone are just over 60% of the country, looking at the latest energy future report something like 81% of Canada’s power capacity is from renewables and nuclear, 61% being hydro.

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  • AA5B@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    Huh, here in Massachusetts, we’re trying to push through some long distance power lines so we can buy some of that sweet Canadian hydro.

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• Bluegoon@startrek.website ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

  Damn, that’s thousands, maybe hundred thousand+ of jobs in supply chain and fuel instantly lost right there.

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  • VieuxQueb@lemmy.world ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    And as many created in buildin infrastructure, power distribution and maintenace.

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  • Dudewitbow@lemmy.zip ⁨10⁩ ⁨months⁩ ago

    And you created thousands more as you have to find people to build the charging infrastructure that barely exists in some locations at all., including most residential homes/apartments/condos, which gasoline doesnt touch.

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